There was an interesting read in playboy's june issue where they interviewed Lance Armstrong, mentioning him as possibly being the most important athlete of all-time. I guess I never really thought of him like that before, but after reading through, this guy overcame 12 tumors, goes on to win the Tour de France 6 times in a row, and helped raise close to $40 million for cancer by selling those simple yellow bracelets for $1 each...he has my vote.

Just wondering what everyone else's opinion is?

Chris P.

as much as i hate the way it sounds, i have to agree with you. it seems that his cancer survival and following Tour domination have lost their meaning because we have all heard the story countless times, but when you really think about it, no other athlete started with so little and achieved so much. to go from lying in a hospital bed, weak and bald, with a probable death sentence, to becoming arguably the most dominant figure in the single most demanding physical test on the planet, is absolutely incredible.

even if you forget about cancer, his current athletic status by itself is arguably enough to earn him the title of the most focused, determined, and strongest athlete alive today. can anybody think of another athlete in any sport that trains 360 days per year, sometimes up to 8 hours per day? i can't.

i know i'm going to get roasted alive for saying it, but compared to lance, none of the "cycling legends" impress me. sure, some of them won more races than lance, but none of them had to drag themselves out of their deathbeds to do it.

as much as i hate the way it sounds, i have to agree with you. it seems that his cancer survival and following Tour domination have lost their meaning because we have all heard the story countless times, but when you really think about it, no other athlete started with so little and achieved so much. to go from lying in a hospital bed, weak and bald, with a probable death sentence, to becoming arguably the most dominant figure in the single most demanding physical test on the planet, is absolutely incredible.

even if you forget about cancer, his current athletic status by itself is arguably enough to earn him the title of the most focused, determined, and strongest athlete alive today. can anybody think of another athlete in any sport that trains 360 days per year, sometimes up to 8 hours per day? i can't.

i know i'm going to get roasted alive for saying it, but compared to lance, none of the "cycling legends" impress me. sure, some of them won more races than lance, but none of them had to drag themselves out of their deathbeds to do it.

Eddy was close to dying when he collided with his derny pacer, and then had incredible back pains throughout the remainder of his career. Sure, he didn't have cancer, but he still had to make an incredible comeback from near death, and this was before he had won a lot of races. The actual prime of his racing career was after his awful crash. The crash was so bad, his pacer actually didn't make it out alive.

Also, as far as training goes, the Cannibal has it all over most everyone else. Including Armstrong. Eddy trained as much, if not more than Armstrong does today, and won a lot more races, and remember, if he hadn't crashed, and had not injured himself badly in said crash, it's amazing to think that he could have possibly won a lot more races.

There are also lots of other stories of other athletes out there that have just as an inspiring story as Lance does. There are also lots of other athletes that train as hard as he does and sometimes harder. You'd be surprised at the level of training that guys like nordic skiers go through, and other sports you're not in tune with.

This is not to say that I don't admire the things Lance has done on and off the bike, I just think you might have a narrow perspective of what's really going on in the sporting world in general, and not just cycling.

Most important of All-Time? In what context? Historically, I would think someone like Jim Thorpe or Jesse Owens would be more important. Jim Thorpe for his myriad of accomplishments and his stubborn refusal to lower the American flag- which later became law in how we display our flag. And Jesse for using his olympic events to crush the "Master Race" myth put forth by Nazi Germany.
Granted, neither was a cyclist, but they're still worthy of consideration despite that major flaw :D

There was an interesting read in playboy's june issue where they interviewed Lance Armstrong, mentioning him as possibly being the most important athlete of all-time. I guess I never really thought of him like that before, but after reading through, this guy overcame 12 tumors, goes on to win the Tour de France 6 times in a row, and helped raise close to $40 million for cancer by selling those simple yellow bracelets for $1 each...he has my vote.

Just wondering what everyone else's opinion is?

Chris P.

Interesting question. I guess it depends on how you define "important." I can't, off the top of my head, think of any other athletes who've been so singularly effective in promoting and raising money for a particular good cause. There may be others, and I'm just not thinking of them. In that sense, Lance has used his fame well. But in terms of lasting importance, I'm going to agree that Jesse Owens, or maybe Jackie Robinson, are great suggestions, more important in the overall scheme of things than Lance.

But as for "most important of all time"? I can't think of a better candidate than Pheidippides (http://ctc.coin.org/marathon.html). Who else created an event that's still growing in popularity 3000 years later?

Jackie Robinson, no question.

Jim Thorpe for his myriad of accomplishments and his stubborn refusal to lower the American flag- which later became law in how we display our flag.
Except it wasn't Jim Thorpe. from
http://www.fccps.k12.va.us/gm/webs-2002/gr8-3/hillary/summerhistory.html

1908
The 4th Olympic Games were held in London. There was a new stadium built for these Olympics to hold 68,000 people. It was located in Shepards Bush, a nice section of London. All through these Olympics it was continually rainy and arguments between the British officals and the US athletes happened often. "The Battle of Shepherds Bush began when the U.S. delegation noticed that there was no American flag among the national flags decorating the stadium for the opening ceremonies. The U.S. flag bearer and discus champion Martin Sheridan responded by refusing to dip the Stars and Stripes when he passed King Edward VII's box in the parade of athletes."

Most important athlete? Is that the way they phrased it? I can't think of any athlete as important. Lance is the greatest, most accomplished American athlete of my 40 years. Wayne Gretzky, is the greatest, most accomplished Canadian athlete of my 40 years! (I just can't speak about a great athlete without mentioning Gretzky!)

I love this kind of thread because there is really no wrong answers just opinions...

While Jackie Robinson will always be remembered in the anals of history as an important athelete, it was really Branch Rickey that made history by breaking ALL of the rules and signing Jackie Robinson...his accomplishments as a baseball player certainly pales in comparison to Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron,

I think about this with the backdrop of which "athlete" will be remembered 150 years from now and additionally we must consider the entire world...

My list:

1) Ali (probably the best know athlete in the entire world...period)
2) Ruth (still a household name after 85 years)
3) Secretariat (there will always be great race horses and then Secretariat)


Armstrong is questionable...we probably won't know until 20 years from now, but there is a good chance he will be on the list. His inclusion will probably be determined by how he handles his retirement.

I love this kind of thread because there is really no wrong answers just opinions...

While Jackie Robinson will always be remembered in the anals of history as an important athelete, it was really Branch Rickey that made history by breaking ALL of the rules and signing Jackie Robinson...his accomplishments as a baseball player certainly pales in comparison to Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron,

I think about this with the backdrop of which "athlete" will be remembered 150 years from now and additionally we must consider the entire world...

My list:

1) Ali (probably the best know athlete in the entire world...period)
2) Ruth (still a household name after 85 years)
3) Secretariat (there will always be great race horses and then Secretariat)


Armstrong is questionable...we probably won't know until 20 years from now, but there is a good chance he will be on the list. His inclusion will probably be determined by how he handles his retirement.

Michael Jordan, Seabiscuit (coming back from adversity) and Lance (ditto). And for at least a week, "Giacomo"!

Donald Bradman is probably Australia’s most important athlete.

He was a cricketer during the great depression, he gave entertainment to people who had little else to look forward to.

His batting average of 99.94 runs per innings is almost double ANY other players in the history for the game.

CHEERS.

Mark

Dale Ernhardt sr. He must be important as hell since half the vehicles at my workplace have stickers regarding him on thier rear windows.

Dale Ernhardt sr. He must be important as hell since half the vehicles at my workplace have stickers regarding him on thier rear windows.

if only he'd worn that 'noose'
aw hell, don't wear one if you don't want to

I would have picked Jesus
but the only thing he rode was an ***

who was that bloke that invented the wheel?

Lance is not in 10 cycling champions of all times!!!
MERCHX, COPPI, INDURAIN, ANQUETIL, HINAULT, BARTALI etc are most most most valuable of Armstrong. (A man of one month... in year, a man of the tour de france but the tour is only a little part of cycling season)
Men like Jabbar, Bird, Magic, Thorpe, Owens, Jimbo, Supermac are in the great history of sports but not Lance pleaseeeee!!!

Of all time...hmmm

Well, Babe Ruth has to be up there. Certainly past Lance. After all he played in the 20s and 30s, helped entertain and saved baseball during the depression and after the scandal of 1919.

Even though it was 70-80 years ago, he is still as well known as Michael Jordan and Barry Bonds.

Certainly the guys that defied and broke through the segregation of the early part of the century are above Lance. The attitude that black atheletes had to endure back then had to have been incredibly tough. It goes beyond physical excellence.

Jackie Robinson, no question.

Isn't that a bit myopic? Jackie only pertained to racial discrimination problems (in sport) in the US, cancer is a world-wide phenomenon and kills people.

[QUOTE=thefunkyplumber]
I would have picked Jesus
but the only thing he rode was an ***
QUOTE]

And perhaps Mary Magdelaine :)

Isn't that a bit myopic? Jackie only pertained to racial discrimination problems (in sport) in the US, cancer is a world-wide phenomenon and kills people.
I don't think so. Jackie Robinson changed the way Americans thought of Blacks in this country and by extension racial discrimination in general (which is also a world-wide problem). I believe he was one of the figures instrumental in starting the Civil Rights movement of the 50's and 60's. I don't see a simiilar sea change in people's attitude toward cancer as a result of Armstrong's work. It's true there was a time when cancer was a secret disease and wasn't talked about openly, but that time was long passed before Armstrong became involved. It was mentioned that Branch Rickey was responsible for Robinson being in the Major Leagues, and that's true, and Rickey deserves a world of credit for that, but since the discussion here is most important athlete, we don't have to resolve Rickey's role vs. Robinson. I would say, though, that the reason I believe Robinson is the most important athlete is based not only on his performance on the baseball diamond (which was remarkable), but also on his performance as a human being performing under almost unbelievable stress and hostility.

The thread was meant to be greatest athlete of all time.

If the topic was greatest Black athlete then consider Jesse Owens, Jack Johnson, Jackie Robinson or maybe MJ. But Michael Jordan didn't have a whole lot to overcome and Barry Bonds was a steroid user.

To name greatest athlete look at the accomplishments versus obstacles and the complexity of factors affecting the sport. Lance is a worthy consideration and I think that was the intent of the article.

c'mon, Jesse and Jim changed the Euro /American worldview about people of color. Jackie followed in their footsteps. That is a huge accomplishment. I'll throw Major Taylor in the mix as well. and it isn't a myopic racial thing, you just aren't seeing what these athletes had to deal with in their eras.
but we're forgetting one as well.
Pele.

look what he did for the game of Futbol.

Ancient history is that Heracles invented the concept of an atheletic contest when he challenged his brothers to a running race and crowned the winner with olive branches. If the criteria is most important, inventing the concept of racing or atheletic contests has to be the top. Everything else derives from that beginning.

Ancient history is that Heracles invented the concept of an atheletic contest when he challenged his brothers to a running race and crowned the winner with olive branches. If the criteria is most important, inventing the concept of racing or atheletic contests has to be the top. Everything else derives from that beginning.

and it would eliminate alot of debate.

as with Phidippedes as well. But that all goes back to Greece being the most important civilization of all time.
Invented Democracy
invented Sport and the Olympics
Invented modern philosophy
only thing they lacked is PIE.

The thread was meant to be greatest athlete of all time.
Sorry, but no. The title of the first post in the thread was clearly, "Most important athlete of all-time?" Important not greatest. To me, importance is measured not by athletic acomplishment, but by how long-lasting and far-reaching the impact of an individual was on society in general.

You guys are forgetting Major Taylor. An African-American that won numerous track cycling championships at the turn of the 20th Century, including what could be considered the first American to win a World Championship.

Lance Armstrong's achivements goes near the top. Read his autobiography, and you get the impression he started cycling just as a way to get from point A to point B.

Jackie Robinson definatly belongs. He ended racial discrimation that dominoed into all sports.

It's hard to compare different sports in different eras. It seems like while back Sports Illustrated did Athlete of the decade (Mohammed Ali - 1970's, Gretzky - 1980's, Jordan - 1990's, etc.) based on a number of factors including athletic accomplishments and what they did for the sport, etc.)

Yeah we've all heard the story until we're sick of it, and yeah we hate the condescending way some non-cycling sports casters (or worse yet--local news) present it every year like you've never heard it, but what he overcame is impressive. And you would be hard pressed to find someone in the Western world who has a pulse and has not heard of Lance Armstrong. Judging him based on marital woes is unfair (two people know the full story) and not mine or anyone elses business but his, so that should not factor into it. I can't think of one individual who has raised more money to fight cancer, or raised awareness for it more than him, and that you can judge him on. He's also made a lot of Americans into cycling fans. Remember the woeful American coverage of the TDF in the 80's & 90's?

Unless someone else comes out of the woodwork, I can't see how you can't pick Lance Armstrong as American athlete of the 2000's.

I can't think of one individual who has raised more money to fight cancer, or raised awareness for it more than him, and that you can judge him on.
Just off the top of my head, how about Don Imus?

Except it wasn't Jim Thorpe. from
http://www.fccps.k12.va.us/gm/webs-2002/gr8-3/hillary/summerhistory.html

1908
The 4th Olympic Games were held in London. There was a new stadium built for these Olympics to hold 68,000 people. It was located in Shepards Bush, a nice section of London. All through these Olympics it was continually rainy and arguments between the British officals and the US athletes happened often. "The Battle of Shepherds Bush began when the U.S. delegation noticed that there was no American flag among the national flags decorating the stadium for the opening ceremonies. The U.S. flag bearer and discus champion Martin Sheridan responded by refusing to dip the Stars and Stripes when he passed King Edward VII's box in the parade of athletes."
Sorry, my mistake. Still a very important sports moment none the less.

you do realize he's under investigation for his little Cancer Ranch right? Gets millions of dollars and it's open to kids for what 8 weeks a year. Then the Feds find out ole Don's been using the place for his personal R & R. So I don't think he's a really good example to use right now.
I mentioned Major Taylor, as someone later said no one did. While LA is a great cyclist, great athelete he hasn't changed the face of sport in general let alone the sport he's involved in. Thorpe, Robinson made the entire world change it's views. LA hasn't popularized cycling enough in the US to warrant live coverage of the non Lance events.

There is not an athlete today that I can think of who is at the top of their game and considered the best in the world who would give up money, their endorsement value, the crown of their respective sport for their principles (whether you agree or disagree with them) and this is what Ali did when he refused to be drafted. And please before someone tries to turn this into polictics only - I am not saying I or we should agree that his choice was the right one - my point is that he stood up for his priciples and was ready to give everyhting he had away when he was at the very pinnacle of his sport.

Can you Imagine Michael J or Lance or Beckam or Tiger or any of these guys to suddenly take a stand for something, anything, radical that would reduce their earnings potential or that might "rock the boat" - they NEVER would. Ali did. This isn't even bringing his personality into it - which was about 1000 times more colorful than the robotic Woods or the scripted Jordan or the predictable Lance.

I guess if the question is which athlete do I respect the most - perhaps a different question than who is the most imprtant.

Great thread BTW,.

-Nik

1) Muhammed ali (the black superman according to a very popular song)

2) Jesse Owens

3) Pele



...no cyclists that I can think of should make this list...

you do realize he's under investigation for his little Cancer Ranch right? Gets millions of dollars and it's open to kids for what 8 weeks a year. Then the Feds find out ole Don's been using the place for his personal R & R. So I don't think he's a really good example to use right now.
Don't read things I didn't write. The question was who raised the most money for cancer not who is the most admirable person. I really don't know who's raised the most but have reason to believe there are many who raised more than Armstrong, as you claimed. As for the investigation, there is none. There was a routine request for information, it was provided, and the case was closed. WSJ had a story before everything was resolved greatly exagerating the situation.

I never mentioned anything about Armstrong raising money. Just commented that Imus was a poor choice, and I agree there are people who've raised more money.

This reminds me of when ESPN did a list of the 100 greatest athletes of the 20th century before the millenium and placed Jordan over Ruth. Leaving aside the ancients, I just don't see how anyone other than Ruth is No. 1. People forget than in 1920 baseball was by far the biggest sport in the country, and Ruth essentially saved it from the Black Sox scandal, so it could be argued he saved professional sports in this country. He defined the decade of the 20's, and completely changed the way the game was played. In addition, not only was he probably the greatest hitter of all time, but he was also one of the greatest pitchers of his time. No one else has ever done anything close. It would be kind of like Joe Montana being the greatest quarterback and one of the greatest linebackers. It just doesn't happen. I know this a cycling forum, but it just has to be Ruth. While Robinson had an enormous social impact, he was not one of the greatest players of all time. The only one I think is close is Ali because he was one of the greatest boxers of all time and he had a large social impact, but I just don't think it was as great as Ruth. In the end, a great feat is still described as "Ruthian."

While Robinson had an enormous social impact, he was not one of the greatest players of all time.
Do you really believe the importance of a human being is measured primarily by athletic acomplishment? Read the title of the thread.

and he saved baseball, that isn't a feat that changed sport worldwide. his impact was on America and I doubt other pro sports were in jeapordy from the Red Sox scandal. Robinson's impact was far more global, it changed the way America and the world viewed people of color. But on Global Impact on the same issue, Jesse Owens and Jim Thorpe have even gretaer impact. Thought of another two. Johnny Weismueller and Duke Kahanamoku. Both helped popularize swimming and both helped bring surfing to America and thus the world.

But as for "most important of all time"? I can't think of a better candidate than Pheidippides (http://ctc.coin.org/marathon.html). Who else created an event that's still growing in popularity 3000 years later?

you're forgetting that running is BORING!!!
:D

This reminds me of when ESPN did a list of the 100 greatest athletes of the 20th century before the millenium and placed Jordan over Ruth. Leaving aside the ancients, I just don't see how anyone other than Ruth is No. 1. People forget than in 1920 baseball was by far the biggest sport in the country, and Ruth essentially saved it from the Black Sox scandal, so it could be argued he saved professional sports in this country. He defined the decade of the 20's, and completely changed the way the game was played. In addition, not only was he probably the greatest hitter of all time, but he was also one of the greatest pitchers of his time. No one else has ever done anything close. It would be kind of like Joe Montana being the greatest quarterback and one of the greatest linebackers. It just doesn't happen. I know this a cycling forum, but it just has to be Ruth. While Robinson had an enormous social impact, he was not one of the greatest players of all time. The only one I think is close is Ali because he was one of the greatest boxers of all time and he had a large social impact, but I just don't think it was as great as Ruth. In the end, a great feat is still described as "Ruthian."

Babe Ruth has nearly no importance whatsoever outside of the US. Actually, remove the 'nearly' from the previous sentence. This thread is not about the most imp. US athlete.

That said, I think Armstrong is a solid nomination. Re: some of the others names mentioned, I've never felt Ali was consistent enough- I think some of his pronouncements were just posturing and intended to garner more press attention, but that's certainly not true of everything he said/did. An interesting case, to be sure. And to play devil's advocate, how much influence did Jackie Robinson have outside of the US? And Jim Thorpe? Pele's another great mention; even aside from his messing things up occasionally in his politicking the past decade or so, he still means well- better than the fat goobers who head UEFA and FIFA.

This reminds me of when ESPN did a list of the 100 greatest athletes of the 20th century before the millenium and placed Jordan over Ruth. Leaving aside the ancients, I just don't see how anyone other than Ruth is No. 1. People forget than in 1920 baseball was by far the biggest sport in the country, and Ruth essentially saved it from the Black Sox scandal, so it could be argued he saved professional sports in this country. He defined the decade of the 20's, and completely changed the way the game was played. In addition, not only was he probably the greatest hitter of all time, but he was also one of the greatest pitchers of his time. No one else has ever done anything close. It would be kind of like Joe Montana being the greatest quarterback and one of the greatest linebackers. It just doesn't happen. I know this a cycling forum, but it just has to be Ruth. While Robinson had an enormous social impact, he was not one of the greatest players of all time. The only one I think is close is Ali because he was one of the greatest boxers of all time and he had a large social impact, but I just don't think it was as great as Ruth. In the end, a great feat is still described as "Ruthian."


I remember seeing that list, at least I think that was the one, and being astonished that Merckx wasn't even named. Toughest sport or not, the debate can be made either way. But I don't think you can overlook how much Merckx dominated his sport, especially after the derny accident.

Yes Lance has accomplished a lot. So did LeMond. And he almost died too. The list of greats is hard to determine. To name a few, Ruth, Gretzky, Bobby Orr. And then some who could have if they had modern surgery: Gale Sayers and Mickey Mantle. Not to mention how much they would have been paid now.

Also remember, Sayer's teammate Brian Piccalo died of exactly the same cancer that Lance survived.

And to play devil's advocate, how much influence did Jackie Robinson have outside of the US?
My feeling is that his influence worldwide is significant though indirect. He changed the attitude of the U.S. populace with respect to race relations and as a result of the change in the U.S. position, other countries were influenced to re-examine and change their attitudes as well.

Tough call...

as far as their social influence on athletics...

Ali, Tiger Woods, Lance, Jesse Owens, Pele...

Here is an even tougher question...

Who would be the best, or even most influential FEMALE athlete in history?

From an American perspective = Ali
From a World perspective = El Rey Pele

but Jesse Owens did the same thing on a more global scale (Berlin Olympics) decades earlier

With Jim Thorpe or Jesse Owens, I think that you'd have to include Major Taylor who was a black American & International sprint champion (1898 world champ), who had to deal with the extreme racism & prejudice of his day. In spite of his difficulty, Major Taylor remainded above the frey and true to his upbringing (for example he was a religious person, who refused to race on Sundays during the prime of his career). I think Taylor's strong character makes him a great role model even today....actually I'd have alot more respect for today's professional atheletes (most sports) if they were even close to MT's depth of character.

Most important athlete?

How about this: most self-important athlete?


There was an interesting read in playboy's june issue where they interviewed Lance Armstrong, mentioning him as possibly being the most important athlete of all-time. I guess I never really thought of him like that before, but after reading through, this guy overcame 12 tumors, goes on to win the Tour de France 6 times in a row, and helped raise close to $40 million for cancer by selling those simple yellow bracelets for $1 each...he has my vote.

Just wondering what everyone else's opinion is?

Chris P.

Tough call...

as far as their social influence on athletics...

Ali, Tiger Woods, Lance, Jesse Owens, Pele...

Here is an even tougher question...

Who would be the best, or even most influential FEMALE athlete in history?


Most influential or best FEMALE athlete in history? Great question. Sorry it took so long for me to get back to this, it took some serious thought because (unfortunately) unlike male athletes, females don't get nearly the coverage as males unless they pose nude. Not that I'm a prude, but Mark McGuire wouldn't have garnered any attention as a female tennis player compared to Anna Kornakova, and what has she done besides smile and pose.

Here's my shot at a list to help get the debate going:

Pat Summit, Tennessee women's basketball coach. A former Olympic and College star, she went on to do what all superior athletes do when their playing days are done and the didn't have million dollar contracts to waste away the rest of their lives with. Her teams have dominated, her former players have gone on to help create other women's powerhouses. With a record of 882-176, she is the winnings college basketball coach ever and has the highest winning percentage of all time as well (.838). Both those mark outdo even Merckx by a mile. It's likely that she will be the first coach to reach 900 and 1,000 wins, and along the way she may set a mark that won't be touched for some time. As I type, her choice becomes more apparent all the time.

Some others who I believe deserve to be named include Billy Jean King, Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert of tennis; Babe Didrickson, who mastered basketball, track, golf, baseball, tennis, swimming, diving, boxing, volleyball, handball, bowling, billiards, skating and cycling and said the only thing she didn't play was dolls; Peggy Flemming, an olympic skater known for style and grace; and possibly Beth Heiden, in skiing, speed skating and cycling.

As I said, I'm sure I've overlooked many greats, but I believe these women at least deserve to be noted. A male athlete I forgot who deserves recognition is Henry Aaron, who calmly ignored death threats to pass Babe Ruth.