What are your thoughts and opinions on these wheels? I am 135# and want something lighter and more aero than the Ksyriums for racing. They would be all around wheels. I can't afford speciality wheels (one for aero, one for climbing, etc) right now. I like my Ksyriums b/c they are bomb proof, but everyone has them. I can get them for < $600 through a team deal. Thanks.

If I went with something else that was soley more aero, is it possible to get a wheel for < $600?

What are your thoughts and opinions on these wheels? I am 135# and want something lighter and more aero than the Ksyriums for racing. They would be all around wheels. I can't afford speciality wheels (one for aero, one for climbing, etc) right now. I like my Ksyriums b/c they are bomb proof, but everyone has them. I can get them for < $600 through a team deal. Thanks.

If I went with something else that was soley more aero, is it possible to get a wheel for < $600?

It seems there's three things you shouldn't talk about at the dinner table: politics, religion and the Am-Classic 420 wheelset :D
I'll give my opinion anyway.

I'm 5' 10", 165# and ride the standart build Am-Classic 420's. I've logged about 9k miles on my set and use them as everyday wheels as well as in races. I've crashed on them twice and have abused them in general for a long while with no problems. Never had to true them and have had no issues with the rims, spokes or nipples. The hubs are light and easy to maintain. The bearings have been the only issue. They kind of disintegrated after a year. I was told this is an issue that has been dealt with for post 2004 models. With a new set of bearings they spin like brand new. They're not 'carbon' light, Not Zipp/Reynolds 55mm aero. They're a great all around wheelset that does well in many conditions.

Two caveats: Watch out for 'great deals' through the internet. If you're going to buy deal directly with Am-classic. Second, the brake surface is small and your pads have to be adjusted perfectly for proper braking.

If your budget is around $600 you may have to dig a bit deeper for the 420's if you're gonna deal with Am-classic directly.

Good luck

I believe my team gets them directly from American Classic but I'll ask. I read some reviews about quality issues from any wheels built up in Taiwan. I know some people have had good luck with ebay, but I haven't so I was staying clear of goods from there.

I am 6' and 175 lbs. One is a set of 2004 AC 420s, standard build, with about 6000 miles on them, they haven't been on a truing stand since I bought them new last year. My first set was AC hubs with Velocity Aeroheads, again in standard build. No problems on those, just repacked the bearings after about 4,000 miles.
My newest set are AC 350 with Sapim C-Xray spokes that I bought off ebay.... the older hub but no problems at all. At your weight, you could probably use those as "everyday" wheels just like a number of the guys I ride with do. All of them are more than 135 in weight.
If you can't get a deal on AC wheels through your team, you might try calling Mike Garcia at oddsandendos, he will build you a set of wheels using the newest AC hubs and a suitable rim and spoke combination for your weight and probably be able stay within your budget.

The words "team deal" suggest that you may use these as race wheels. I have a pair of 350s, and unfortunately have had a hub bearing seize, a freehub bearing disintegrate, and a rim collapse. Now the 420 rims are stronger, so you can probably rule out that failure mode. But having had to drop out of races when bearings fail is definitely not fun! (Two of my failures were during races...) On the positive side, AC's customer service is excellent, and the newest wheels use supposedly better bearings. My personal thoughts - nice wheels for training, but just not reliable enough for racing. (I think it was Tom Richie who came up with the saying "light, strong, cheap, choose any two." Since AC wheels are light and relatively cheap, guess which factor loses out...)
P.S. I weigh 139lbs 55+ Master's racer, so neither weight nor monster wattage can be blamed for the failures.

The rear hub on my 420's, purchased through a team deal in 2003, crapped out on me on it's maiden voyage. I called customer service, and the guy sort of slipped and said, "they either crap out first thing or not at all." They rebuilt the hub, and I haven't had a problem since.
That's not entirely true. I haven't had that problem since. I haven't put massive miles on them, and I have had a spoke break (I weigh 160), which I suppose is not a terrible indictment. More troubling, the rear hub bearings seem to continually loosen. I have tightened them three or four times, and they just won't stay tight.
Other than that I suppose I can't complain.

I got the following from Mike for sub $500.00:

2005 Am Classic Hubs
Velocity Aerohead rims - 28 hole (front and back)
Wheelsmith Spokes
front wheel - radially laced; alu nipples
rear wheel - Brass nipples on the drive side, alu on the non drive - 3x lacing on the drive side; 2x lacing on the non drive side

Total weight: 1400 grams.

With Mike, you get the benefit of custom built wheels spec'd for your weight and riding style, plus his top notch builds.

I have had a set of AC-420's for close to a year and would not buy again or take if given to me for free.

Broke 3 spokes in a week on secind week I had them. They have been rebuilt numerous times by numerous wheelbuilders but will not stay true for more than 2 rides.

Flex to all buggery when climbing hard or sprinting.

Though I have had no problems with hubs to date.

I weigh 168 and am 6ft.

2005 Am Classic Hubs
Velocity Aerohead rims - 28 hole (front and back)
Wheelsmith Spokes
front wheel - radially laced; alu nipples
rear wheel - Brass nipples on the drive side, alu on the non drive - 3x lacing on the drive side; 2x lacing on the non drive side

Total weight: 1400 grams.

I've recently built a set of wheels with Velocity Aerohead, Chorus hubs, 32 15/16 3X with brass nipples. The wheels came in at 1682 gm weighed on a precision scale. It's hard to see where you could save 250+ gm off this with alloy nipples (28 vs 32 spokes would save around 25 gm). Have you actually weighed these wheels on a good scale?

I've recently built a set of wheels with Velocity Aerohead, Chorus hubs, 32 15/16 3X with brass nipples. The wheels came in at 1682 gm weighed on a precision scale. It's hard to see where you could save 250+ gm off this with alloy nipples (28 vs 32 spokes would save around 25 gm). Have you actually weighed these wheels on a good scale?

Kerry, the american classic hubs are about 200g lighter than Chorus (67g vs. 180g for the front and 236g vs. 326 for the rear). Alu nips will save another 20g per wheel. So there's 240g. Then it's the spokes. According to Mike Garcia's website, there's a 50g difference per wheel between using 28 XL 14/17 spokes vs. 32 15/16s. So there's 300g. If you used a powdercoated as opposed to annodized velocity aerohead, that's another 15g per wheel, bringing the total to 330g, which would make you and Wills Dad right.

I've recently built a set of wheels with Velocity Aerohead, Chorus hubs, 32 15/16 3X with brass nipples. The wheels came in at 1682 gm weighed on a precision scale. It's hard to see where you could save 250+ gm off this with alloy nipples (28 vs 32 spokes would save around 25 gm). Have you actually weighed these wheels on a good scale?

I have not weighed them. I'm trusting Mike's scale and the weights he tags each wheel with when he delivers them. My guess is the weight difference is in the hubs. Am Classics are quite light (58 grams for the front; 205 for the rear).

for about 1,500 miles. And I've had the exact opposite experience.

I ride a lot of chip & seal and banged up roads......these are as true as the day I got them....still spin up easily. I've had zero problems.

In talking and listening to others, and doing research before I bought the 420's Iearned a few things:

1.) Hubs in the last 2 years are markidly more durable than old one's
2.) Wheels not built by AC (using AC parts) are not as durable as those built by AC
3.) AC wheels are sustom built to a riders weight. I have heard of several peopl having broken spoke problems, and in every case I know, the person bought a used set of AC's that were built for someone lighter than they were.

Not sure if any of these apply to you.

I'd recommend the wheels in a heartbeat, bought from AC.

Len

american classic hubs are about 200g lighter than Chorus (67g vs. 180g for the front and 236g vs. 326 for the rear). Alu nips will save another 20g per wheel. there's a 50g difference per wheel between using 28 XL 14/17 spokes vs. 32 15/16s. So there's 300g. If you used a powdercoated as opposed to annodized velocity aerohead, that's another 15g per wheel, bringing the total to 330g, which would make you and Wills Dad right.

Some of the numbers I agree with, but you have listed the AC hub weights without skewers, and the Campy hubs with skewers. Campy skewers weigh 126 gm for the set, so you have to take that back out. Also, I have found that 4 recent Velocity rims (powder coated) have come in at 450 gm or so, not the 410 that is often quoted.

I called customer service, and the guy sort of slipped and said, "they either crap out first thing or not at all."

Empirical data shows this to be very true. With all of the other good wheels out there, I just don't get why people roll the dice now that this is widely known.
Glad to hear yours are doing well now.

Some of the numbers I agree with, but you have listed the AC hub weights without skewers, and the Campy hubs with skewers. Campy skewers weigh 126 gm for the set, so you have to take that back out. Also, I have found that 4 recent Velocity rims (powder coated) have come in at 450 gm or so, not the 410 that is often quoted.

Ooops, didn't realize the chorus #s were with skewers. Anyhow, though, it looks like the numbers still work, especially if the ano rims came in under 400g and your powerdoated ones came in at 450 -- there's 100g right there.

For alt. #s, I had Mike Garcia build me a set of DT swiss R1.1 rims laced to his speedcific hubs (28H) with XL14/17s and alloy nips. Total 1464g w/o skewers. I'm sure that the AC hubs are 64g less than Mike's.

I like mine, well at least the rear - the front was destroyed in a crash.
Replaced the front with an AM 350. I really like the combo, especially in crosswinds.
My set is '03 and I had to replace first set of bearings at 1200+ miles. No problems since.
I would buy again.

I have a set and I'm not impressed, I'd stick with your Ksyrium's regardless if everyone has them. Eurotrash is right, given there hub reputation I don't know why people keep going back. It's kind of like Dean. I have a set and would like to keep the 420 rims and have somebody build them with a decent pair of hubs. Does anybody know of any good wheelbuilders out there?

Given all the comments on these wheels, it's interesting that this time last year, there were some posters saying the AC 350 was plenty durable for daily use and that the AC 420 was hell-for-stout. Any suggestion to the contrary was met with vitriol and derision. What a difference a year makes!