The non-drive side seat stay on my ancient Miele lugged steel has come un-welded. No evident damage, just that I can pull the seat stay away from the top tube where it should be welded.

This is my workhorse bike, of which I'm very fond. It's very comfortable, especially on our local crappy roads. Here's the question: What to do?

Option 1: Find a frame builder and have it fixed. Pros: Would probably do a good job. Cons: There are no frame builders within several hundred miles, I'd have to ship the frame, and it might be moderately expensive.

Option 2: Get a local welder (I know a competent guy, but he works mostly on farm machinery) to do the job. Pros: Inexpensive and convenient. Cons: He has no experience with bike frames, but does very good work on everything I've seen from combines to tillers..

Option 3: Start saving up for a replacement frame.

I'm leaning toward both options 2 and 3. But I guess the heart of the matter is whether I should trust a welder who doesn't usually work on bikes with a relatively small fix. Does anyone have any experience having non-bike welders work on their bikes?

Cheers, Frank.

Sorry to hear about the frame. Is your frame very old? Since it's lugged, the repair would be done by brazing, not actually welding. Brazing is something like heavy duty soldering. You might talk to your local welder. But, if you go that route, you'll probably want to take it to a good shop to have them check the alignment of the rear triangle/drop-outs and derailleur hanger. You might also have them chase and face the bottom bracket shell. Even brazing might cause some distortion there. A good frame builder should do all of that for you with the repair, and possibly repaint the frame too.

This might be time to get a new ride. If your bike is more than 10 years old, you'll probably appreciate the new technology in components, as well as the materials frames are being made of.

Good luck,
Bob

I believe (and I'm sure someone will correct me if wrong) that on some lugged frames the seat stays are welded to the outside of the lug that connects the top and seat tubes, rather than inserted into the lug. I have an older frame like that.

As for how difficult it is to re-connect the stay, I don't know. I'd talk to the local welder, and maybe call or e-mail a frame builder or two for opinions.

Good luck.

Hey There,

Can you post a photo of the area? I might be able to give you some advice with a good look at it.

Dave

Most likely the braze joint just broke. Any competant welder should be able to braze it back on with little trouble. Of course, the paint will get scorched in the seat cluster area and will have to be repainted.

I think I'll just shut up now and let Dave answer this question after a photo is posted.

Ed

If the farmer has a MIG or TIG welder than he can easily do it. That's the only welder you can use on such thin tubing. Otherwise you will burn a whole through it.

The non-drive side seat stay on my ancient Miele lugged steel has come un-welded. No evident damage, just that I can pull the seat stay away from the top tube where it should be welded.

This is my workhorse bike, of which I'm very fond. It's very comfortable, especially on our local crappy roads. Here's the question: What to do?

Option 1: Find a frame builder and have it fixed. Pros: Would probably do a good job. Cons: There are no frame builders within several hundred miles, I'd have to ship the frame, and it might be moderately expensive.

Option 2: Get a local welder (I know a competent guy, but he works mostly on farm machinery) to do the job. Pros: Inexpensive and convenient. Cons: He has no experience with bike frames, but does very good work on everything I've seen from combines to tillers..

Option 3: Start saving up for a replacement frame.

I'm leaning toward both options 2 and 3. But I guess the heart of the matter is whether I should trust a welder who doesn't usually work on bikes with a relatively small fix. Does anyone have any experience having non-bike welders work on their bikes?

Cheers, Frank.

It needs to be brazed, not welded if it has lugs... Look around on the web, that repair probably won't codt much, but paint re-touch will put you out a bit...

-D

Lugs are brazed, not tig or mig welded. The surrounding area will have to be stripped of paint and any rust or imperfections. Brazing is quite simple in the welding realm. After the lug is brazed you can smooth down the filler very nicely with small rotary wire brush, sand paper, steel wool. Primer the area and re-paint. The re-paint will be the only expensive part if you send the frame out.

Thanks to all of you for your comments.

Sorry, but I can't post a pic. No digital camera. Isn't it obvious I'm a self-defeating Luddite?

I'm going to take the bike out to Paul the welder and see what he has to say. If he thinks he can braze it (special thanks for filling me in on the terminology -- the guy already thinks I'm from Mars, maybe I'll be able to avoid coming off as a doofus from Mars), I'll go with it. Seeing as he likely won't charge me more than $20-30 and the frame itself has nothing but sentimental value, there's not much risk.

I had the frame alignment checked and tweaked about six months ago. Perhaps that was the cause of the problem, or perhaps it was getting squashed in a moving van, which was what prompted the alignment check... No doubt ultimately it was my mother's fault for not breast feeding me.

I'm not too concerned about the paint. I'd been thinking about getting the frame powdercoated anyway. It's currently a hot 80s iridescent purple/blue. I think it wants to wear black in its old age, like a Greek grandmother.

BTW, it's an 18 year-old frame. It currently has a mix of old Sante and newer Ultegra and 105 components. Yes, I know that newer frames have lots to offer; I have another, newer bike. I'd like to keep this one going as a beater/commuter, perhaps even use it as a cross bike (if only there were any cross racing around here).

The sad and frustrating part is that this is getting to feel like a slippery slope. This bike had been serving as my rarely-used tri bike for the last few years (the geometry was reasonably amenable). I stripped off the aero bars with bar-end shifters, put on STI levers, and changed the rear d, cassette, and chain. When I was installing the new cassette, I noticed there were cracks in the rear wheel rim. Given that I was already having a bugger of a time centering the old axle to accommodate a new freehub body for a 9-speed cassette, I opted to replace the whole wheel. Only three rides later, I noticed the frame break.

All told, what originally started as a project I thought I could complete mostly with spare parts from the bin will probably end up as an expensive white elephant. But at this point, I'm faced with the choice of either another $100-odd for a frame fix and paint or a new frame. I figure the latter option would entail probably $250 for a new cheapie frame and fork that I wouldn't like, plus more for replacing incompatible bits and pieces. And it would defeat the purpose of trying to find a good use for an old frame.

Penny-wise and pound-foolish. But that's what hobbies are for, right?

Cheers, Frank.

After posting my last, I went back again to re-read everyone's posts. Talk about slippery slope. I went to David's web site... Screw this current project (not really) -- I'm saving every penny for a Terraplane! That's exactly the bike I've always wanted.

Having David comment on my silly frame problem would be like asking Amartya Sen to help balance my check book. I am in awe.

mine....

If the farmer has a MIG or TIG welder than he can easily do it. That's the only welder you can use on such thin tubing. Otherwise you will burn a whole through it.

Not to be a downer, but you do not want to get within 10 feet of a bicycle frame with a MIG welder. MIG (Mechanical Inert Gas) welding is used in applications were larges amounts of fill metal are needed and cosmetics are of little concern, i.e. trailer hitches, industrial applications, etc. TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welding works on the premise of fusing the two parent metals while using very little fill material, consequently they are cosmetically nicer and add very little mass to the finished product.

Not to be a downer, but you do not want to get within 10 feet of a bicycle frame with a MIG welder. MIG (Mechanical Inert Gas) welding is used in applications were larges amounts of fill metal are needed and cosmetics are of little concern, i.e. trailer hitches, industrial applications, etc. TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welding works on the premise of fusing the two parent metals while using very little fill material, consequently they are cosmetically nicer and add very little mass to the finished product.

Mechanical inert gas doesn't make any sense. It's metal inert gas.

Mechanical inert gas doesn't make any sense. It's metal inert gas.

Yep, brain fade(don't know where Mechanical came from, long day), actually it should be GMAW (Gas Metal Arc Welding)