I bought an IBEX Aprisa 5500 bike just over a year ago from IBEX Bikes out of Georgia. While the pricing and component group offered is compelling on this bike, you might want to think twice about ordering from them.

- First off my bike arrived very untrued wheels that I had to spend $40.00 having straightened and re-dished. This was not a huge deal as they ended up reimbursing me for this cost. The problems are this: THEIR WHEELS ARE HORRIBLE

- 4 broken spokes on rear wheel in just over a year. Note: On my last bike, I did not break a single spoke in 5 years. And of course each time a spoke breaks, the wheel needs to completely realigned. Now I have flat spots in the wheel. (btw: it has cost me around $100 replacing spokes and retruing the rear wheel)

When I called Ibex to discuss this, I was told it was my fault the spokes broke and there was nothing they would do about it.

- Faulty cassette. Bearing is either crushed or something inside is rubbing as the wheel does not spin efficiently.

- To raise the handle bars, you have to buy spacers or leave the stem where it is. (uncomfortably low)

To make a long story short, if you're going to buy a bike from IBEX, plan on buying another set of wheels to go with it. Also, plan on poor customer service, if any. Many times no one picks up the phone at all.

Also, plan on waiting upwards of 4-5 months for your bike to arrive. A friend that bought from them was told the 2005 shipment was delayed. Makes no sense to be selling 2005 bikes when you have none as of June of 2005 to sell.

Just some things to consider... Good Luck.

I bought an IBEX Aprisa 5500 bike just over a year ago from IBEX Bikes out of Georgia. While the pricing and component group offered is compelling on this bike, you might want to think twice about ordering from them.

- First off my bike arrived very untrued wheels that I had to spend $40.00 having straightened and re-dished. This was not a huge deal as they ended up reimbursing me for this cost. The problems are this: THEIR WHEELS ARE HORRIBLE

- 4 broken spokes on rear wheel in just over a year. Note: On my last bike, I did not break a single spoke in 5 years. And of course each time a spoke breaks, the wheel needs to completely realigned. Now I have flat spots in the wheel. (btw: it has cost me around $100 replacing spokes and retruing the rear wheel)

When I called Ibex to discuss this, I was told it was my fault the spokes broke and there was nothing they would do about it.

- Faulty cassette. Bearing is either crushed or something inside is rubbing as the wheel does not spin efficiently.

- To raise the handle bars, you have to buy spacers or leave the stem where it is. (uncomfortably low)

To make a long story short, if you're going to buy a bike from IBEX, plan on buying another set of wheels to go with it. Also, plan on poor customer service, if any. Many times no one picks up the phone at all.

Also, plan on waiting upwards of 4-5 months for your bike to arrive. A friend that bought from them was told the 2005 shipment was delayed. Makes no sense to be selling 2005 bikes when you have none as of June of 2005 to sell.

Just some things to consider... Good Luck.


As a quick response, it seems that the majority of your problems arises from a set of poorly built wheels (Alex A-class paired spoke?) While it is nice that ibex stands behond their fully built bike, it would of been very easy of them to simply refer you to alex and forgot. Ibex does not build the wheels, they are probably sent the wheels pre-built and then just assume (probably poor assumption) that the wheels are ok, slap them in a box and ship it off to a customer.

it sounds like the broken spokes are due to poor wheelbuilding/adjusting somewhere along the line and this could habe been at your LBS

the faulty cassette issue sounds like another problem with the freehub mechanism in the wheel, again, alex wheels problems.

the above issues are why I build my own wheels, if something is wrong its my fault...so i do it right the first time.

try picking up some 105 hubs laced to mavic open-pro's on ebay and putting them on your bike, much more reliable hub-rim combination.

the handlebar gripe: I'm assuming, from the mentioning of spacers, that you have a threadless stem. I'm not sure what the problem is here, most bike companies cut the steertubes of the bikes to allow for a little adjustment down, but for aesthetic reasons (as far as i know) place the stem at the top of the stack of spacers. Did you try flipping the stem over? Many stems work just as well when reversed and ritchey stems even have their graphics printed as to be reversable. Maybe purchasing a stem with a greater rise would solve this problem.

the last gripe about bikes not being in stock is actually very valid, if a company advertises that it has 2005 bikes, it should make it obvious that either they dont have them in stock.

It will probably be repeated many times below, but it sounds like you should of purchased a bike at your LBS, that way you can walk in and demand customer service, as opposed to calling up and getting frustrated.

- 4 broken spokes on rear wheel in just over a year. Note: On my last bike, I did not break a single spoke in 5 years. And of course each time a spoke breaks, the wheel needs to completely realigned. Now I have flat spots in the wheel. (btw: it has cost me around $100 replacing spokes and retruing the rear wheel)

When I called Ibex to discuss this, I was told it was my fault the spokes broke and there was nothing they would do about it.

- Faulty cassette. Bearing is either crushed or something inside is rubbing as the wheel does not spin efficiently.

- To raise the handle bars, you have to buy spacers or leave the stem where it is. (uncomfortably low)


anybody with a threadless stem will have no choice but to buy spacers to raise the stem (unless they have spacers lying around). that complaint is hardly valid. what IS valid is probably that (without having seen you on your bike) they cut the steerer too low.

as for the faulty cassette, you probably mean the freehub's bearings are toast. if the wheel manufacturer isn't willing to replace the wheels, you can probably buy replacement cartridge bearings, assuming they're cartridge. if they're loose ball bearings, you could just grease them. more likely, I would ask the manufacturer for replacements - you breaking spokes is not your fault unless you were over 300lbs or you were using the wheels for downhill mountain biking (unlikely). if they're not willing to help you out, put the wheels in your driveway, back over them with your car, and get something that works. IBEX should, imo, have worked with you to replace the wheels. I guess they may not have had the resources to do this, being a small, low-margin budget bike dealer. that wasn't meant to excuse them, though. at the very least they should have talked to the wheel manufacturer.

Ib<i>ex</i>. (I know you knew that, but with Ibis set to return to building bikes, I wouldn't want this debacle showing up when somebody searched the forum. . .)

Anyway, it does not appear that the original poster was informed enough a consumer to be buying a bike site-unseen from a remote retailer. Caveat emptor. You get what you pay for, yadda yadda. Cheap, low count paired spoke wheels? Nein danke. No matter how much snazzier they look than boring 32 3x wheels. . .

I bought an IBEX Aprisa 5500 bike just over a year ago from IBEX Bikes out of Georgia... When I called Ibex to discuss this...
I'll try my best to be polite here. I spoke to you myself when you called in and the conversation got pretty heated. Let's do get a few facts straight, though. Your purchase date was August of 2003... just a couple of months short of two years ago. If anyone would like to check the relative accuracy just take a look at the Archives section of our website. We did not make an Aprisa 5500 model in 2004! It was dropped after 2003 and has just reappeared as the new 2005 Aprisa Elite 5500 (pretty sweet, too!).

Anyway, you were told that we wouldn't cover the wheelset because it was out of warranty and I did try to tell you that, from our perspective, we have no idea if it was your fault or not... but that without something to go on we could not even cover the broken spokes individually. Read your own post and do the math. You wrote of "4 broken spokes on rear wheel in just over a year." That would mean you went the first 9 months or so before the first spoke broke (it rhymes, eh!). Wheels do require maintenance and I simply tried to point out that we have no contol over whether they get it or not. When the first spoke did break (no rhyme this time... except that one), you told me you had it replaced at your LBS and had the wheel trued and tensioned at that time. Again, we have no control over whether it was done right... or done at all.

Although you claimed that you'd had problems from the beginning, that recent phone call was the first we'd heard from you about it. Had you contacted us when the problem was first noticed (assuming that was when the bike was new as you claim) we'd have been happy to replace any faulty part or at least register your concern and monitor the situation with a record to show that it was an existing problem so we could still cover the item if it became necessary. And by that I mean, we would not have instantly replaced the entire wheelset because of a broken spoke, but we would have seen that the spoke replacement was covered and at least had a track-record to go on if the problems continued.

However, after 22 months (and 10-months past warranty on the wheels) you finally contacted us to insist that you be given an upgraded set of wheels free of charge... and you even fished for $100 cash compensation on top of that! You were not willing to offer any evidence (dated receipts for spoke replacement maybe?) that this was anything other than nearly 2-years of hard riding and resulting wear and tear. Sorry, but whether it is the case with you or not, we have to deal with lots of folks who'll say or do anything for a freebie. I think it's pretty safe to say, there's not another bike manufacturer, parts maker or LBS out there that would have blindly handed you a new set of wheels under these circumstances.

I would probably have offered to sell you a new set of wheels at cost, but you were being pretty belligerent on the phone and unwilling to discuss anything except your demand, nor would you allow the discussion to progress toward any reasonable conclusion. It was kind of hard to get a word in edgewise to offer you any sort of deal and, to be perfectly honest, after being berated for a while I lost any interest in doing so.

You can try to flame IBEX as much as you like, but I think you're clutching at straws both with your complaint and your misinformation about IBEX availability. We often offer pre-launch specials for folks that want to place a reservation in advance for the coming year's models. When we do this we give them discounted pricing. We require only a deposit, with the balance to be paid when that model is ready to be released and advise them upfront of the estimated ready date... sometimes many months ahead. We did have a delay this year on some models, but it was a matter of 3-weeks or so from our expected launch date and was due to Shimano component deliveries. Ask your friend for details. I think you'll find that he placed his reservation expecting to wait those several months for delivery... though maybe not the last 3-weeks. My apologies to your friend!

BTW, it's June... and yes, we have all 2005 models available for immediate shipment (though a few particular model/size/color combinations are already sold-out).

Jack A.
IBEX Bicycles

Jack, thanks for taking the time to reply.

"IBEXGetsaCGrade" was a first time poster. I questions someone's motives when they post such a bitter review and they have no track record posting on this forum...

Thanks again for taking the time to reply....

What a GREAT response from ibexbikes! Hope all you guys that dream of running a bike shop some day are reading this thread. The good, the bad, and the ugly minus Clint Eastwood.

I've been riding an Aprisa Pro for about 8 months with zero problems. I got a great end-of-year deal, paying $1299 for an 18.6 lb bike, Ultegra/Dura Ace, and have had zero problems after about 3000 miles. I've had no problems with the Ritchey Deep OCR DS Pro wheelset, despite negative feedback in the review section. I noticed that Jack has changed to the Neuvation M28 wheelset, which is an improvement IMHO. I've had the bike tuned up twice at my LBS since I got it. Just like a car, you're asking for trouble if you decide to forego a little preventive maintainence to save a few bucks.

i've had my 04 vantage 5500 since feb. ive put on about 600 miles and have had no problems. i do ride some rough roads at times so ive had my wheels trued once. they were not out much. ive had no spoke problem. one thing ive noticed is how quit it rides.
when riding in groups ive noticed many bikes of all brands being noisy. im sure its probably from age and lack of care..but no one hears me..

ive had great responce from jack for any questions or help needed
this is my second Ibex, the first being a mountain bike, it too is still going strong.

karl

Good response Jack. Bottom line, if you don't know how to true a wheel you have no business buying a mail order bike. Get thee to the LBS (and be prepared to pay more). I got a Voodoo mtb mail order for my GF from Supergo and the wheels were a mess. I trued them up and built the bike--redid the brakes and ders and made sure everything was tight--it's been fine. It was a great deal.

I will just throw in my two cents:

1) I bought an Ibex MTB for my future brother in law and had it delivered to him. Shipping and delivery were fast and when my brother in law had some questions about the sizing, Jack kindly spent several phone calls discussing it with him. I would do business with them again.

2) Having spokes detension is not an Ibex problem, it is a wheel manufacture problem. I had a set of bontragers on a Gary Fisher that had the same problem. I had to take it back to the shop numerous times to have it retensioned and finally ended up retruing and tensioning it myself.

2) Having spokes detension is not an Ibex problem, it is a wheel manufacture problem. I had a set of bontragers on a Gary Fisher that had the same problem. I had to take it back to the shop numerous times to have it retensioned and finally ended up retruing and tensioning it myself.

If they spec the wheels on their bikes it is an Ibex problem. Unless you were obviously abusing the bike, any problems you had with the Bonty wheels should have been covered for at least a year by Trek/Fisher (and your Trek/Fisher dealer).

Glad to see the company make a response. I was interested to hear the other side of the story. It worried me a little that someone would actually take the time to register as IBEXGetsaCGrade and make their first post an attack on a company. I know little about Ibex to say the least, but it sounds like they are on the up and up. I'm still going to stick to my LBS though. Just a personal thing.

If they spec the wheels on their bikes it is an Ibex problem. Unless you were obviously abusing the bike, any problems you had with the Bonty wheels should have been covered for at least a year by Trek/Fisher (and your Trek/Fisher dealer).

Actually, most manufacture warrantys specifically state that the components are covered by the components makers warrantee. You have a problem with your shimano stuff, go talk to shimano, etc. In my case Trek owns Bontrager so it was still their problem. In actuality it was the shops problem and they did a crappy job of dealing with it. If you buy from a shop, you shouldn't care who is warrantying the product, it should just be fixed. When you buy direct, you are stepping into the place of the shop and now have to warranty your items through the respective manufacture, the price you pay for the money you save. In my case, the shop sucked anyway, so I learned to do my own work (better quality) and save the money.

BTW, In the last year I have found a shop that does good work. They don't sell complete bikes unless they are a custom build and focus on service. Their prices are not cheap, but the two mechanics are very anal (I walked in one day to find one of them using a torque wrench to properly torque the brake pads on campy brakes) and I can walk out knowing that my bike is ready to ride. To me well worth the cost.

Cool...thanks for the other side of the story and keeping a calm head. Sounds like a well-run operation. Why do people feel the need to be such asses when they have a complaint about a product. You're almost always better off just being civil.

As I am primarily a mountain biker that rides the road for training, I usually refrain from posting very often, but.....
When looking for a "real" mtb bike for my 38 lb 6 year old daughter, I came upon IBEX bicycles. I found a great bike that weighs less than she does (23 lbs) with very adequate components for an awesome price. Jack explained that the special price was due to the fact that the bikes were not yet in stock. The bike arrived when he said that it would and after completely going throught the build, my opinion is that they do a great job and provide a great service.
As my Mom and Dad always told me Jack-"don't let the ba$turds get you down". Keep up the good work.

Actually, most manufacture warrantys specifically state that the components are covered by the components makers warrantee. You have a problem with your shimano stuff, go talk to shimano, etc. In my case Trek owns Bontrager so it was still their problem. In actuality it was the shops problem and they did a crappy job of dealing with it. If you buy from a shop, you shouldn't care who is warrantying the product, it should just be fixed. When you buy direct, you are stepping into the place of the shop and now have to warranty your items through the respective manufacture, the price you pay for the money you save. In my case, the shop sucked anyway, so I learned to do my own work (better quality) and save the money.

BTW, In the last year I have found a shop that does good work. They don't sell complete bikes unless they are a custom build and focus on service. Their prices are not cheap, but the two mechanics are very anal (I walked in one day to find one of them using a torque wrench to properly torque the brake pads on campy brakes) and I can walk out knowing that my bike is ready to ride. To me well worth the cost.

Unless something has changed in the ten years since I stopped working at shops (or my memory is failing me), waranties of anything on (say) a Trek bike went through Trek. If a Shimano part was bad when building a Trek bike we just tossed it in the Trek warranty box and replaced it with something from our inventory. The Trek rep would come by from time to time and pick stuff up and give us credits or replacement parts. I assume Trek then went back to Shimano with the broken Shimano stuff. With something like truing wheels the shop usually just sucks it up and ends up making the repairs.

The Trek warranty covers all parts on the bike except suspension forks.

http://www2.trekbikes.com/owners_manual/warranty.html

I stand corrected, I must have misread my warranty.

I have discovered Ibex Bikes, and would feel very comfortable dealing with them. I have been looking for a road bike for my son, and it looks like Ibex has just the thing...

Thanks a lot, IBEXGetsaCGrade.

Last July I purchased a 2004 Ibex Corrida CT 2.2 flat bar road bike. For the whopping closeout price of $299 I received high end customer service and the best possible value dollar for dollar. After better than a thousand miles there wasn't one problem. Just sold the bike this weekend for $350.

Before purchasing the bike I had a question that was promptly answered in an informative manner. When I received the bike, which was shipped the next day, the rear wheel was out of dish, which my LBS verified. Contacted IBEX about the problem and the cost of $16 to redish the wheel. They promptly responded that they would reimburse me for the expense. I then informed IBEX that I wanted to purchase an accessory kit (pump, wedge, multi tool, patch kit, etc.) that they sold for $20 and that I would be happy to pay the $4 difference. IBEX's response - no need to pay the additional $4, we'll just send you the kit. The kit was shipped even before IBEX received the receipt from the LBS for redishing the wheel. I subsequently received a check from IBEX for $16, which I did not deposit but discarded after notifying them of their error.

My dealings with Jack and IBEX have convinced me that they want to earn your business. If there is a problem, they will deal with it promptly, without the all to common B. S., song and dance, blame game you get from other businesses. I feel that these points were exemplyfied in Jack's well though out and reasoned response.

As hard as you try, you just can't please all the people, all the time.

Thank you all for your kind responses and especially to those who took their time to tell of their experience with IBEX.

I would like to throw in here that Alex is really quite a good manufacturer and not necessarily deserving of being slammed as inferior on name alone. They make, perhaps, the widest range of rims of any company out there. They also manufacture rims and complete wheels for a number of other name brands... brands that are both better know in the US and better respected. Unfortunately, outside of BMX circles, it's the lower end their line that tends to show up here under the Alex brand, which no doubt, is responsible for their so-so reputation. That's slowly changing, with several BNB's (big name brands) spec'ing Alex's mid-level stuff now, including the ALX-280 wheelset that we've spec'd on our 5500 models (5500 being the Shimano series numbers for the 105 group and applied to a few different IBEX models over the years). We've had very good luck with them... Cgrade's problems being among the few, if not the only, I recall hearing of with these. The ALX-280 is a pretty good mid-level paired-spoke wheelset that's, basically, on par with the Shimano WH-R540 or Bontrager Select (since Bonty was brought up in the thread).

Also, though it's got nothing to do with me, a friend of mine who manages an LBS that sells Gary Fisher, Lemond and Klein informed me that Trek recently changed their warranty situation... now making the individual dealers responsible for all warranty issues. Each LBS has to absorb both parts and labor cost on all Trek, Gary Fisher, Klein and Lemond product warranty repairs. That may be good for Trek, but it's very bad for the dealers and, especially, customers. I suspect that the degree to which they will uphold the warranty will vary from shop to shop to the point that buying Trek from some dealers will be virtually without warranty. On top of that, you won't be able to get warranty coverage anywhere except the shop that sold you the bike. I'm not sure if this extends to Bontrager parts bought as aftermarket items.

As far as warranty goes, I believe we do a better job of making it easy on our customers than do many LBS's. We tend to chose name brand components rather than in-house and no name parts that show up on most BNB's. So, finding support and info on the parts is often much easier. Our frames carry a lifetime warranty (to the original owner) and all the components are warranted the same as they would be on those other bike brands... better actually, because we don't believe that customer should have to fight with the component manufacturer if their bike arrives with a defective part. If one of our bikes has a problem out of the box or early on, we either send another part ourselves, send that customer to an LBS and cover the repair, or replace the entire bike. I'm not trying to sugar-coat it, though. Time is a big factor when it comes to warranties. If you have a problem when your bike is new, it's our problem too. However, if you put a few thousand miles on your bike over many months and all of a sudden your Shimano derailleur kicks, we're going to send you to Shimano. To be perfectly honest, it's doubtful that they're going to deem it a defective part if the problem doesn't show up in the first few hundred miles. That's no different whether you buy your bike from us or at your LBS.

The situation with Cgrade wasn't a matter of us not making good on his warranty, it was a matter of him waiting to contact us until 10-months after the warranty on the wheels had run out... frankly, causing me to question whether the issue may have been a result of the treatment the wheels received, not of them being defective. As I stated in my rebuttal above, I don't believe that any LBS would have treated his complaint any differently.

Buying online may not be for everyone, but it definitely has some advantages. Price is certainly the biggest one with our everyday "direct" prices on IBEX bikes set at about 25% below what you'd pay for similar models in the bike shop brands and our occasional sale prices well below that. With the high cost of finer bicycles these days, that relates to hundreds of dollars in savings on most models. We generally have about 2,000 bikes in-stock at any given time... as opposed to about 100 bikes spread between any number of different models in the typical small LBS. So, you stand a very good chance of finding the model you want in the size you need most anytime... except, maybe, during our year-end clearance when we're just trying to move out leftovers to make room for the new model year. That's also the point at which many of our customers start to opt for placing a reservation for one of the coming new models, though.

The bike you purchase from IBEX is delivered to your door by UPS, which can be quite nice for those who live in areas not overflowing with bike shops and allows you to shop at anytime of the day or night... our website being available 24 hours a day. For those of us who are challenged to find enough time-in-the-day as it is, that's a big plus. I find myself shopping for more and more stuff online because of... well, price and time, as well as just not wanting to have to haul my purchases home when I can have them delivered. I find myself now buying everything from computer components to books, movies and music to other sporting goods items like scuba gear, camping and baseball equipment... watches, contact lenses, sunglasses, shoes, kitchen stuff... you name it!

I did not mean for this to turn into a commercial... but I do want to make it clear that buying from your LBS is not the end-all answer for everyone. There are lots of very happy IBEX customers out there who will tell you this too. It must also be said that there are two kinds of LBS's... good ones... and, well... let's just say, not so good ones. I hear horror stories from customers all the time about having been sold a bike that didn't fit, either because that was the size the shop had in-stock and they needed to move it or because they had ill-informed salespeople. I've heard of service departments that overcharge in the extreme, especially when they see that the customer doesn't know better... like $60 per wheel for truing on wheels that really didn't need it (my buddy's shop charges $8 per wheel)... like $80 tune-ups that amounted to turning the barrel adjusters to properly tension the cables that had stretched a bit, as they are inclined to do. I've also heard from a vast number of dealers wanting to carry IBEX because of our quality to price ratio. Unfortunately, our pricing is based on streamlining distribution and our bikes would have to sell for the same as other brands in a bike shop if the dealers are to get their usual profit margin.


Best regards,
Jack

Why do I smell bikesdirect.com?

Why do I smell bikesdirect.com?
Maybe you're not following what we're talking about. IBEX is bike brand that consumers can buy directly from the manufacturer. That other site is yet another middle man that sells a variety of brands that they buy from the manufacurers and sell online, though the majority of their offering is Motobecane (long story there, but we'll save that for another time).

Jack

Why do I smell bikesdirect.com?

check your shoes, you may have stepped into a big pile of bikesdirect.com...

IBEX recieves an A+ and five stars!
My buddy has ridden an aprisa team pro 2004, and the darn thing is sweet.
After about a thousand miles, I noticed a little rear wheel wobble and suggested
that he have it trued. The wheels are fine, but we have a good LBS that doesn't
just tighten spokes. You gotta check tension! It's amazing how people that never
true wheels complain about wheel failures.
Ibex is a great company that really cares about it's customers. Every LBS that
sees my friends ride, really likes it. The craftsmanship and price are truly amazing.

It just makes me mad when I hear people talk smack about a product that I see
every day.

Mederators: hope that the person that started this post gets an F grade and is thrown out of the forum.

Interesting that we haven't heard back from the OP.

Is he too embarassed to respond or is he still whining and sniveling?

Interesting that we haven't heard back from the OP.

Is he too embarassed to respond or is he still whining and sniveling?

No, its because he is affiliated with bikesdirect.com or some other online retailer. They hate competition and the advertising IBEX does here.

No, its because he is affiliated with bikesdirect.com or some other online retailer. They hate competition and the advertising IBEX does here.


I would think supergo, bikesdirect, performance, ibex, and all bike shops hate competition

in fact, i would be surprised if you liked competitors -- in life or in business

I would think supergo, bikesdirect, performance, ibex, and all bike shops hate competition

in fact, i would be surprised if you liked competitors -- in life or in business

I don't think IBEX hates competition - they don't have any.

Jack,
I've neither purchased anything from IBEX nor have I ever heard of IBEX until today. But I must compliment on how you responded to the OP; professional, clear, explanatory. Your point about the OP coming to you 10 months after the warranty expired reminds me of my friend who works at the North Face Canada in Montreal. We've known each for years through my working outdoor retail. He would tell me stories about how customers would send in their 10 year-old Gore-Tex jackets claiming a warranty problem, such as leaking, discolouring, wear and tear, etc., and we would just laugh at these people and shake our heads. People will try anything to get a freebie. You did well, Jack. Good on you.
Cheers, Wayne

I don't think IBEX hates competition - they don't have any.

if you think IBEX has no competition you are biased beyond reason

look at these 3 bikes

http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=25872&lsubcat_id=7618&lcat_id=7604&referpage=

http://bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/serp_ltd30.htm

http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/APR-6500-Details.html

they all 3 compete with each other and I would be surprised if anyone thought the IBEX was the best deal - even though they are all the same price - give or take a few bucks

in shops we sell bikes like this for about $500 to $700 more than these online guys; but we deleiver much more service. BUT WE ALL COMPETE WITH EACH OTHER - SHOPS AND ONLINE SELLERS -- and we all beleive we are great and our competitors should go into some other business!

Quote: "in fact, i would be surprised if you liked competitors -- in life or in business"

Competition makes all of us better -- or at least it should. I work in a business (not related to cycling) that is highly competitive, as most are. I know many of the people who work for my competitors and we get along and respect each other. We attend the same conferences around the country and often meet up for meals or drinks. I count some of them as friends. Out in the trenches, we're all busting our butts to get the others' market share. What we don't do, is sneak around insulting each other. If I'm going to beat my competition, I'll do it by working harder to provide a better product, service and/or value. Clients, or potential clients/customers sometimes ask me about our competitors and I tell them "hey, they're good and they keep us on our toes. Here's what we have to offer."


I like the response from Ibex because he takes that approach -- explaining what is good about his product and service without saying everyone else sucks. Maybe I'm an idealist, but I like civility.