Just getting into road biking and going through a lot of discussions and upgrading of wheelsets. Couldn't find anything in recent postings so I'm wondering if someone could enlighten me on the pros and cons of running tubular and clincher tire configurations. Right now, running some custom-made Velocity Clincher, but looking over some of the lighter weight carbon wheels and seeking advice on the two configurations. I'll ride about 150 miles a week.

Thanks in advance.

Razoredge.

[QUOTE=razoredge]Just getting into road biking and going through a lot of discussions and upgrading of wheelsets. Couldn't find anything in recent postings so I'm wondering if someone could enlighten me on the pros and cons of running tubular and clincher tire configurations. Right now, running some custom-made Velocity Clincher, but looking over some of the lighter weight carbon wheels and seeking advice on the two configurations. I'll ride about 150 miles a week.

Leave the tubies for the Pro's, who have paid team mechanics to change out flats.

I think I read that 25% of the TdF rode clinchers this year and it's not like those folks on clinchers were left in the dust.

Clinchers are SO much easier to deal with, that's it's a wonder any recreational rider still use tubulars.

Still, the rims are lighter and the tires do ride better, but are you really going to know the difference ?. You may well be cursing if you get a flat on a group ride and everybody leaves you on the side of the road. If you want another way to lose the difference in weight, take a piss before the ride.

SB

Clincher-Tubular arguments are a staple on this website. 99% here believe tubulars are a miserable remnant of past technology, rendered obsolete by the modern clincher tire.

I rode tubulars exclusively for thirty years. I still use them on one of my bikes. My main bike, though, has clinchers.

Here is my assessment of the two technologies: In terms of sheer performance, tubulars outperform clinchers in every parameter, if only by a little bit. From rolling resistance to comfort, cornering, acceleration and everything else, tubulars are just that little bit better. Tubulars also have run-flat capabilities. If you find yourself in a situation where you must ride on a blown tire, a tubular is much stable. If you're careful, you can go for miles and miles. On a clincher, meantime, things get squirrely pretty quick when there's no air. A blowout with a tubular is a very manageable experience. A blowout with a skinny high-pressure clincher can be downright scary.

On the other hand, a good clincher is good enough for you to quickly realize that the amount of performance you lose by not running a tubular is pretty negligible. There is definitely not a whole world of difference.

There are also the practicalities to consider. Though clinchers can be a pain to put on, mounting a tubular onto the rim can be truly miserable experience. The glue you use to secure the tire to the rim gives a whole new definition to the term "messy." Even if you've dutifully pre-stretched your tubular, it can take the arms of Popeye to get the thing all the way onto the rim. When changing tubulars, I personally got into the habit of taking off my shoes and socks, and using my toes to help me get leverage. Then, once the tubular is on, you have to center the thing on the rim. You don't want to watch your tire wobble as you go down the road. Sometimes, however, centering the tire is absolutely impossible. Sometimes the tire absolutely will not go where you want it to go.

And I haven't even gotten into the travails of taking the tubular off the rim if you need to change it....

In short, if you're a true enthusiast; the kind of person who goes entirely overboard when getting into a new hobby; by all means try the tubbies. If you're a bit more mellow about your hobbies, though, stick to those mundane but nevertheless highly practical clincheroos.

Just getting into road biking and going through a lot of discussions and upgrading of wheelsets. Couldn't find anything in recent postings so I'm wondering if someone could enlighten me on the pros and cons of running tubular and clincher tire configurations. Right now, running some custom-made Velocity Clincher, but looking over some of the lighter weight carbon wheels and seeking advice on the two configurations. I'll ride about 150 miles a week.

Thanks in advance.

Razoredge.


Unless someone is paying you to ride them (tubulars), stick to clinchers.

I am not an expert here. But I do ride both.

Pros & Cons
Tubulars:
Pros:
-Much lighter weight wheels and tires (although for tires that is becomming less so.)
-Usually the really high end wheels only come in tubulars.
-pressure range is much greater on sewups. Great for TTs where super high pressures (over 150) can reduce rolling resistance (althought there is some debate on this)
-Changing a flat on the road is pretty easy, but see below!!!

Cons:
-Expensive
-if you flat you need to carry a whole spare tire, if you flat twice, you are riding home on a rim.
-Expensive
-Even if you change the tire on a ride, it is generally not a good idea to do high speeds or sharp corners, as the tire is no longer glued tight to the rim.
-Expensive
-I usually throw away flated sewups, although there is an outfit TireAlert ( http://www.tirealert.com ) that does a pretty nice job for not too much $, (But still alot more $$ than even a high end tube) I used to do my own repairs, but I have alot more disposable income these days.
-Expensive
-Unless you have at least two complete wheelsets, tubulars once glued (which is a learnable trade) require a day to setup. To be honest - I have ridden them almost immediately after glueing - comeon who hasn't? you'd be lying if you stated otherwise!
-Expensive
-Most LBS's have a poor selection.
-Oh yeah I almost forgot, they are expensive.

Clinchers
Pros:
-tubes are cheap
-wieghts are coming down
-most LBSs have a wide selection of tires/tubes to choose from.
-multiple flats on a single ride are easier to deal with
-fix after a flat is usually just as good as new.
Cons:
-takes a bit more time to change a flat on the road
-wheelsets are generally heavier to much heavier than tubulars
-max psi is rarely more than 120
-IMO not as good a feel for the road as on tubulars, but this is real subtle difference to me and I have been riding seriously for over 25 years.

HTH
Zac

Mapei Roida and zac captured it pretty well. I would add two points. First, while you can save some weight on the rim/tire combo, you have to carry a spare tire weighing perhaps 250 gm vs. a spare tube weighing 70 gm. Your weight savings are essentially wiped out. Second, regarding the ride, Erik Zabel has been quoted as saying that he can't tell the difference. I rode sewups for 30 years, couldn't really say things felt worse when switching to clinchers, and would NEVER go back to tubulars.

"Clinchers

Cons:
-takes a bit more time to change a flat on the road

How's that again ?. I can change a clincher in 7 minutes, using CO2.


-wheelsets are generally heavier to much heavier than tubulars

Hmmm... a set of Mavic Reflex tubulars weigh 375 grams ea. A set of similar Open Pro's weigh 425 g ea., for a whopping 100 grams.

-max psi is rarely more than 120


My Conti clinchers easily run 130 and I've seen other road clinchers go 140 easily. I rarely run that high 'cause they bounce, but that IS one of the nice things about tubies - the fact that they ride nicely.


-IMO not as good a feel for the road as on tubulars, but this is real subtle difference to me and I have been riding seriously for over 25 years.

Agreed

SB

"Clinchers

Cons:
-takes a bit more time to change a flat on the road

How's that again ?. I can change a clincher in 7 minutes, using CO2.


-wheelsets are generally heavier to much heavier than tubulars

Hmmm... a set of Mavic Reflex tubulars weigh 375 grams ea. A set of similar Open Pro's weigh 425 g ea., for a whopping 100 grams.

-max psi is rarely more than 120


My Conti clinchers easily run 130 and I've seen other road clinchers go 140 easily. I rarely run that high 'cause they bounce, but that IS one of the nice things about tubies - the fact that they ride nicely.


-IMO not as good a feel for the road as on tubulars, but this is real subtle difference to me and I have been riding seriously for over 25 years.

Agreed

SB

While I have never timed it, I suppose it takes about 5-10 seconds to take off a tubular from the rim, then another 30-60 seconds to put on the new one (usually prestretched) and straighten it. Can't comment on the CO2 cause I dont use it...LOL...I was just making a point. Quite frankly when on a long ride and you have been exerting alot of energy and then you flat, it kinda sucks having to change a tire, despite best efforts, your hands are slippery with sweat, your eyes are stinging, and there is no good clean place to do it. And plus as I stated, you are usually riding home at less than optimal speed because the old glue just aint safe enough.

With respect to weight, what is your point? I stated that tubulars are lighter to much lighter and they are, even your example shows this. Go down the list of all high end wheel builders and guess what the lightest ones are tubulars, (the highest end ones are tubulars too, and sometimes exclusively so).

I routinely run my sewups at 135 psi. Nothing but high end clinchers are doing this. My point wasnt so much that they run higher, it was that you have a greater range of psi based on weight of rider, road surface, type of riding (high speed cornering vs least rolling resistance), and temperature...Maybe that is not that big a deal so as to be a Pro or a Con, but not many clinchers that are used by the average joe run north of 120 psi.

[QUOTE=zac

With respect to weight, what is your point? I stated that tubulars are lighter to much lighter and they are, even your example shows this. Go down the list of all high end wheel builders and guess what the lightest ones are tubulars, (the highest end ones are tubulars too, and sometimes exclusively so).

My point, which was obvious, is that your comment to a new roadie is misleading. Much lighter, or as you commented "heavier to much heavier", at 100 grams (as a quickie search of 2 Mavic products), is not "much heavier". A pound is much heavier.

Well, maybe to a racing weight weenie (No, I'm not calling names - just using it as an example), but not to a beginner. Especially as Kerry stated, since you're also carrying an entire tire as spare.

I think Mapei stated it best.

SB

You are forgetting about the inner tubes so figure 120g each (stuff a newbie would buy at a LBS not the Conti superlights of 70g that Kerry mentions). Add 32g for both rim strips (64g for velox). So you need to add another 270g to your 100g rims difference for 370g total difference. Lets say the clincher tire and tubular tire weights are a wash. So, pretty close to YOUR self defined 1lb definition for heavy.

To address RazorEdge, the main reason a casual rider would go tubular would be for the ride quality. You will never know the difference until you ride one to decide for yourself if it is worth the added hassle. For some it is, for others it is not. Only you would be able to decide for you. Maybe you can join a club and someone might let you try one out or perhaps a LBS would rent you one to try.

Oh and the spare for a clincher is 120g for the tube plus 30g for tire wrenches and another 30g?? for a patch kit. So 180g clincher spare kit vs 250g tubular spare kit. Dif of 70g which is static weight not dynamic.

BTW, I ride clinchers. Road tubulars in the late 80s, early 90s but have been thinking about getting a set. Maybe next year.

Thanks for all of the good discussion and advice. I think I'll stick with clinchers. A bud of mine is running a set of ZIPP tubulars now and the seat pack he has to carry for a spare is just plain HUGE! I guess for racing or Time Trials it would be worth it, but for me and my house...I plan to stick with clinchers and find me the best and lightest wheelset out there. Anybody familiar with Topolino?

like some poster/s said above, leave the tubulars to the pros, unless you have your own pro mech who is willing to spend 4 days to properly glue and seat a tubular.


if you want a clincher that runs 160 psi, then buy yourself a pair of Vredstein's Fortezza SE. That's right: a 160 psi clincher.


if you really want a light wheel that weighs next to nothing, then plop down $6000 cool ones on a pair of Lightweight Obermayer edition climbing wheels with 10 spokes in front, 12 spokes in the back. They weigh less than 1100 grams a pair.