Looking to get a new bike and I have narrowed my choices down to the Gunnar Roadie and Waterford R14. Price will end up being the deciding factor of these two when the time comes. Tubing wise, these two are very similar. Anyone thoughts on these choices?

I been wanting a steel bike and one big reason I'm looking at Gunnar/Waterford is because me LBS carries those lines. How do Waterford's stack up to other US steel bikes such as Independent Fab and others?

Waterford makes some of the nicest steel frames around. I'd avoid any debate as to whether they are "better" than IF or other brands, but they are very well made. Their lugged frames are beautiful, and by most accounts, ride as well as they look, but expensive. Gunnar, made by the same people, come in at a lower price than the cheapest Waterford and in my opinion are a great value in a steel frame. They are pretty high on my list for my next frame, especially with that straight steel fork.

Both are top notch. You'd be pretty hard-pressed to find better-designed, better-built steel frames. Compared to the Gunnars, Waterfords are custom-built, have a slick seat lug, nicer paint, and stainless steel dropouts. Quality will otherwise be similar. In either case, I'd go with the Waterford steel fork. Pretty, well-made, and rides exceptionally well. If you want a Waterford-built lugged frame in the same price range, check out my Heron frames. ;-)

I have a Gunnar street dog Fixie and it's a good bike......the only complaint I've had is the paint isn't great, but I understand they have gotten better in the last two years. That being said, The ride is on the harsher side (for me (155 lbs) compared to other steel rides. (32 spoke Open pro's, 28 tires, 90 psi....if it's harsh with these wheels & tires, it's harsh). It's not terrible, but noticible to me.

MB1, who has had both a Gunnar and a custom waterford has noticed a difference in ride also. I'm not sure of the tubeset on the Waterford you are looking at.

I suspect, that a 185+ lb rider would not think the Gunnar harsh......YMMV.

Ride them and see what you think...they are both great bikes.

Len

Thanks for the input guys. I felt this was the case, but I was just wondering if I was missing something. I have not seen any negative posts on Waterfords/Gunnars but yet I do not see many posts on them at all to be honest. I scoured the interenet looking for painting ideas on various Waterford. Very few pictures compared to some of the other brands. Either they are lower volumn or it has something to do with the customer base. Waterford seems to sell a lot of touring bikes. Either way, I look forward to getting a new Roadie or R-14 to replace my current budget ride. :)

I have a Gunnar street dog Fixie and it's a good bike......the only complaint I've had is the paint isn't great, but I understand they have gotten better in the last two years. That being said, The ride is on the harsher side (for me (155 lbs) compared to other steel rides. (32 spoke Open pro's, 28 tires, 90 psi....if it's harsh with these wheels & tires, it's harsh). It's not terrible, but noticible to me.

MB1, who has had both a Gunnar and a custom waterford has noticed a difference in ride also. I'm not sure of the tubeset on the Waterford you are looking at.

I suspect, that a 185+ lb rider would not think the Gunnar harsh......YMMV.

Ride them and see what you think...they are both great bikes.

Len

Unfortunately I find test riding Gunnar/Waterfords to be rather difficult even with my LBS being a dealer. It is not like test riding the newest Trek OCLV, one can do that any day of the week at several different shops. I was told the LBS sells about 6 or so Gunnars a year. Being such a low volumn they are not able to keep all sizes and styles on hand. I did test ride a Gunnar roadie but it was one size too large for me. I felt nice but I'm sure a properly sized Roadie will ride/feel different than the one I test rode. As for the R-14, I have never even seen one. Chance's are my LBS has not either. They do have an R-33 which is the same geometry it is one size too small.

I do not mean to go on and on, but the lack of test riding makes it difficult. In my research I have read up on Derosa, Colnago, Strong Frames, Moots, Ind Fab, Spectrum, Serotta, Litespeed etc etc. None of the above are available to test ride within a 2 hour radius (maybe much more) of my home. For the most part I feel I have to make my decision based upon research alone.

That is one reason I decided on Waterford/Gunnar. I was able at least to see on in my LBS. Also, they have a relation with the manufacture and have been around in the community forever. I feel that both the shop and manufacture will take care of my ride if the need ever arose.

BTW,
Both the Gunnar Roadie & Waterford R-14 use Waterfords proprietary OS2 tubing.

Like you, I never heard anything bad about the Gunnars when I was looking for a new ride. I bought an '05 Roadie and have been quite happy with it. I beleive that the primary difference between the Roadie and and Waterford R14 is the custom fit. Yes, there are other differences, but I don't think that they you would regret getting a Roadie. If you want the full custom experience, however, I'm sure that a Waterford will keep a smile on your face.

BTW, the Gunnar color of the month is a Waterford paint job. The finish is great, but even my '05 has chipped.

For photos of various Gunnars, check out the Gunnar Forum at http://www.gunnarbikes.com/board/viewforum.php?f=1.

in that case....I would go with the Waterford. Customis about more than fit......it's also about options.


Len

If you use a standard frame ( and 90-95% of riders can ), you can save a lot by going with Gunnar. The "stock" Gunnar colors are kinda' cheasy, but the "color of the month" is as good as any standard Waterford color.
One worthwhile option is to get your name painted on the top tube. This deletes the silly "roadie" decal.

I have a Roadie that I've been riding for about 3 years. It's a very nice, simple, not terribly expensive bike. Reasonably light and it gives a decent ride. The decals and paint were pretty cheesy - probably why Waterford can offer them for a lower price. I had mine powdercoated and rebranded last year to deal with the chips.

Custom is available for the Gunnar just like it is for the Waterfords. There's an upcharge. Not sure if the additional ~$300 puts it into the same range as the Waterfords, as I'm not familiar with their pricing. The point is, you can go custom either way.

Only one consideration - ego. If you think you're going to feel low-rent on the Gunnar, spend the extra now. A Waterford draws lots of appreciative comments at your local century. Far more than a Gunnar will.

Looking to get a new bike and I have narrowed my choices down to the Gunnar Roadie and Waterford R14. Price will end up being the deciding factor of these two when the time comes. Tubing wise, these two are very similar. Anyone thoughts on these choices?

I been wanting a steel bike and one big reason I'm looking at Gunnar/Waterford is because me LBS carries those lines. How do Waterford's stack up to other US steel bikes such as Independent Fab and others?


Just got a new size 60 Gunnar Roadie coming off of a 56 cm CroMoly Specialized Allez Comp. I outfited the Roadie with a complete Ultegra 9 group (from my Allez), a Specialized C4 full carbon "Zertz" fork and 25mm Conti 3000's.

The stock size 60 Gunnar has similar geometry 58 Allez's. Originally I was looking for a size 58 Allez exactly like I was riding...just the next size up. Since they are no longer being made, I could not find one. Since I live in WI, Gunnar came to the top of my list. Working with my LBS I got a great deal on the Roadie with Waterford paint upgrade (Jason Blue) and looks awesome.

I have less than 100 miles on it so far but I have ridden on the same roads that I road the Allez. I will have to say that the Roadie has a more refined / complient road feel than the Allez. I do not know if it is the Zertz fork, the frame or the combo but I get NO road buzz on the front of the bike as I did on the Allez..none. The Roadie feels more stable probably due to the size difference and longer wheelbase that comes with it. It also feels lighter even though I have not weighed them.

Overall, the Roadie for me can be anything from a crit bike to a long distance rider. Just a fantastic ride from a "stock size" handmade in WI frame.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Greg

Unfortunately I find test riding Gunnar/Waterfords to be rather difficult even with my LBS being a dealer. It is not like test riding the newest Trek OCLV, one can do that any day of the week at several different shops. I was told the LBS sells about 6 or so Gunnars a year. Being such a low volumn they are not able to keep all sizes and styles on hand. I did test ride a Gunnar roadie but it was one size too large for me. I felt nice but I'm sure a properly sized Roadie will ride/feel different than the one I test rode. As for the R-14, I have never even seen one. Chance's are my LBS has not either. They do have an R-33 which is the same geometry it is one size too small.

I do not mean to go on and on, but the lack of test riding makes it difficult. In my research I have read up on Derosa, Colnago, Strong Frames, Moots, Ind Fab, Spectrum, Serotta, Litespeed etc etc. None of the above are available to test ride within a 2 hour radius (maybe much more) of my home. For the most part I feel I have to make my decision based upon research alone.

That is one reason I decided on Waterford/Gunnar. I was able at least to see on in my LBS. Also, they have a relation with the manufacture and have been around in the community forever. I feel that both the shop and manufacture will take care of my ride if the need ever arose.

BTW,
Both the Gunnar Roadie & Waterford R-14 use Waterfords proprietary OS2 tubing.

IMO test rides are over-rated. You need to understand what will fit you, how you intend to use the bike and what you want in terms of geometry, and you need to do your research on the durability/repairability issue (and depending on your weight and riding style stiffness may be an issue, too), but there are way too many variabiles with build up/set up for test rides at the LBS to be very meaningful.

Question about the Roadie: why do they have fender eyelets when there is barely any brake clearance for fenders? And does the stock steel fork come with eyelets, too? The Roadie seems like a killer deal, though.

If you use a standard frame ( and 90-95% of riders can ), you can save a lot by going with Gunnar. The "stock" Gunnar colors are kinda' cheasy, but the "color of the month" is as good as any standard Waterford color.
One worthwhile option is to get your name painted on the top tube. This deletes the silly "roadie" decal.

One of the most common requests is for the removal of one or more decals. Waterford has no problem with meeting this request, as I recall it is a no cost option. They will not deliver a frame with no decals at all (gotta have at least one).

BTW Having 10's of thousands of miles on both there is no question in my mind that a Waterford frame will deliver a better ride than a Gunner all things being equal (changing tire pressure will make a bigger difference than changing frames though).

The R-14 and the Gunnar are so close that I wonder if the difference is because of forks.

The R-14 and the Gunnar are so close that I wonder if the difference is because of forks.

You can get the same fork on both. I read the seat stays are a little differently shaped on the two. That is supposed to result in the R-14 being ever so slightly lighter. The R-14 has a lug at the top of the seat tube were the seat stays come in, but the top tub is still TIG'ed.

I've had two Gunnar Roadies (an '04 and an '05).

Bottom line: they ride great, are well-priced, and made in the U.S.A.
However, in my opinion their paint quality is horrible---it flakes off if you look at it the wrong way. Then again, you get what you pay for...

I've had two Gunnar Roadies (an '04 and an '05).

Bottom line: they ride great, are well-priced, and made in the U.S.A.
However, in my opinion their paint quality is horrible---it flakes off if you look at it the wrong way. Then again, you get what you pay for...

You still had paint problems with the 05? I thought they were also offering powdercoat now but I don't see it on their web site now.

In '05 they went with a clear coat over the "stock colors". I think that the '04's didn't have it, unless you got the "color of the month."
Can't see how paint could "flake off" under a clear coat. If it's an '05 with a clear coat, I'm sure that they would fix it if there was a paint problem.
The older ones, without a clear coat, could end up with a pretty dull finish from being scratched, after two or three years. Same for the decals.