The LBS has some old new stock Lemonds for 50% off and I am going to purchase one or the other today.

They have a brand new 2003 Lemond Zurich for $1049 and a 2003 Lemond Alpe d'Huez for $714.

The major differences are:
This Alpe is the 853 Select and the Zurich is all 853.
As far as weight the Alpe was 21.14lbs with pedals and the Zurich was 20.06 without pedals
The Alpe is pretty much all 105's and the Zurich was mostly Ultegra
The Zurich has the Bontrager Race Lite Wheel Set
The Alpe is a double and the Zurich is a Triple (it is pretty flat where I am so I don't think a triple is warranted)

p.s. If someone wants the one I don't pick I would be happy to put you in touch with the LBS.

Both bikes are 53cm. In case someone was interested in the one I don't pick.

Also, after riding the 53cm and 55cm Tourmalets last week, I felt more comfortable in the 53cm even though I am about 5'10. I have short legs and arms (normal pant size is a 34-36" waist and 30" inseam, shirt size is a 16 1/2 neck with a 34" sleeve). This will be my first road bike so I don't know much but there seemed to be less shoulder/back tension when riding the 53cm.

One of the guys at the LBS thought it fit pretty good, but another said that I didn't "look right" when I was on the fixed trainer. Meaning I just looked too big for the bike. The guy that said I didn't look right certainly wasn't a newbie. In fact, he pulled a plumb line out of his pocket and attached it to my knee to see where the pedal lined up with my foot at horizontal.

They are going to do a complete fitting, clipped in when I am ready to make sure it is the right fit, but is there anyone else about my size 5'10 190# that rides a Lemond 53cm?

I am 6'0" and I rode a 55cm. Lemond measures center to center as opposed to center to top. If it fits dont worry about it seeming like a small number. My neighbor is about 5'10"and his Lemond was a 53cm.

For what it is worth, I had an Alpe D'Huez and loved the ride but for that small of a difference I would go with the Zurich. Better wheels and a frame that has been a fan favorite for a long time. If you want to save the bucks, I rode the Alpe for three years and it is what got me hooked on cycling. Never had a single issue with the 105.

i have a 2003 Lemond Alpe d'Huez frame waiting for me to build. i'm 5' 6 with a 30 inseam and i think it will fit me just fine. go with the zurich it's Lemonds top level bike. if you do a search on reviews you will fine people mention comfort as it's biggest plus. a bike for century and long distance riding. search the bike reviews of this forum. if i could of found a zurich for the price i paid for the alp i'd have a zurich to build........

I am 6'0" and I rode a 55cm. Lemond measures center to center as opposed to center to top. If it fits dont worry about it seeming like a small number. My neighbor is about 5'10"and his Lemond was a 53cm.

For what it is worth, I had an Alpe D'Huez and loved the ride but for that small of a difference I would go with the Zurich. Better wheels and a frame that has been a fan favorite for a long time. If you want to save the bucks, I rode the Alpe for three years and it is what got me hooked on cycling. Never had a single issue with the 105.

After adding pedals, there will be a $400 difference in the price. Other than the weight savings of less than a pound, is there any other noticable benefit in the upgraded frame and wheels? Also, I could not feel the difference between the 105's and the Ultegra, does that take some experience or do they show the difference after some wear?

Functionally there is little difference between Ultegra and 105, especially at your level. Generally as you go up in Shimano's (or any component manufacturer's for that matter) product lines, you'll see less composite and more metal, machining/forging to tighter tolerances, more durable alloys and nicer finishes. In addition innovations such as 10 speed rear shifting generally are introduced in the top level group and filter their way down over a few years time.

Pocket the $400 and get the Alpe. It will be a tremendous first bike for you!

I'm serious. These are both nice bikes and if you're going to be riding whichever you choose for a long time, you need to like looking at it.

Another factor: what happens to that other $400 if you buy the Alpe? Do you need to keep it in your pocket, or would you be willing to spend it -- or part of it -- to enhance your cycling experiences in other ways ... a really good pair of shoes, some top-quality shorts, one or two of those cool new jerseys you've been eyeballing?

All that said, it's a tough choice. Given how good 105 is, I'd probably go with the Alpe myself, but the decision would not be easy.

I'm serious. These are both nice bikes and if you're going to be riding whichever you choose for a long time, you need to like looking at it.

Another factor: what happens to that other $400 if you buy the Alpe? Do you need to keep it in your pocket, or would you be willing to spend it -- or part of it -- to enhance your cycling experiences in other ways ... a really good pair of shoes, some top-quality shorts, one or two of those cool new jerseys you've been eyeballing?

All that said, it's a tough choice. Given how good 105 is, I'd probably go with the Alpe myself, but the decision would not be easy.

Yeah, I already will need to buy some other stuff. The store has some basic SIMI shoes for $75, and I will need at least two pairs of shorts @ $30+ each. I will also opt for a speedo/mile counter thing to keep track of my progress. So, I would say that I have about $200 already spoken for before I find that the stock seat is too uncomfortable and need to get a new one (which I read in a couple of posts).

As far as the color goes, both are great looking. The Alpe is Silver with Orange and the Zurich is Red, Black, and White.

Both are nice bikes and the prices look very good. It really seems to just come down to whether or not you want to spend the $$ on some modest frame and component upgrades. Like some others have said, the 105 components work very well.

You mentioned getting fitted, and that is important. Sometimes people get seduced into buying a poor-fitting frame just because it's discounted and the last one available. In that case I think you are better off paying more just to make sure you'll be comfotable on the bike.

I ride a Zurich. In fact I purchased it through RBR. I would recommend the Zurich over the Alpe. Better frame, better grouppo, great wheelset, and not a bad price at all. Bite the bullet, spend the extra $400 now and get the Zurich. If you do decide that you like riding, you may not have to upgrade in the future. Plus (and I don't know if the 105's have this, they probably do) the brake levers and shifters for the Ultegra has diodes in them. Those tabs on the inside of the levers are actually buttons. Shimano makes a computer called the Flightdeck in which everything is operated from the brake levers. Tells you what gear you are in and has virtual cadence, almost everything. I just picked one up a few weeks ago and love it. Also there is a reason the Zurich is one of their top of the line frames. My opinion.

After adding pedals, there will be a $400 difference in the price. Other than the weight savings of less than a pound, is there any other noticable benefit in the upgraded frame and wheels? Also, I could not feel the difference between the 105's and the Ultegra, does that take some experience or do they show the difference after some wear?

If it is down to 105 vs Ultegra you will not be disapointed with 105. I have Chorus shifters now and they dont work any better. Certainly different, maybe more durable, aruguably cooler but shift for shift not better. Honestly, after the first tune up, I never had to touch the 105 again. Flawless.

The difference in frame and wheels is relative to what you want and what riding you are going to do and how much that $400 means to you. I only test rode a Zurich so it is difficult to say with great accuracy but my guess is that it would be a bit stiffer. Maybe a sportier feel, maybe a better sprinter. If this is a concern, you should consider it. I can attest though that the Alpe is a smooth riding bike. The bike I ride now is a stiffer, better sprinting bike than my Alpe was and I ride it faster. There is a performance difference. That matters to some and not to others. No right or wrong.

Wheels certainly make a difference but it is arguable as to how much. I started with the stock Matrix Auroras that came on my Alpe and later switched to a deeper profile, lower spoke count wheel and I noticed a performance difference. Again, depends on what you are looking for.

As for weight savings, I weigh 205 so I dont normally comment on weight savings. Neither is super light so that isnt a factor to me. Most of that weight difference is in the wheels though there is some difference in the frames.

My original suggestion was to go with the Zurich mainly because most people regretting not going with the higher line when they discover that they never are able to commit the funds to upgrade. In other words, upgrading wheels later will likely cost more that $400 and you dont get the better frame. That may not be an issue for you.

It comes down to what you are willing to spend and what you want from it. Both are good bikes and you really cant lose. The Alpe was a great first bike and at that price, a really great first bike. The physical difference between the bikes will be relatively minor but perceivable. Maybe the smartest thing to do is save the money now and buy the Alpe and put the savings away for a couple of years from now when you are ready to get the perfect bike. You will have a lot better idea of what you want from a bike at that point.

Good luck.

If it is down to 105 vs Ultegra you will not be disapointed with 105. I have Chorus shifters now and they dont work any better. Certainly different, maybe more durable, aruguably cooler but shift for shift not better. Honestly, after the first tune up, I never had to touch the 105 again. Flawless.

The difference in frame and wheels is relative to what you want and what riding you are going to do and how much that $400 means to you. I only test rode a Zurich so it is difficult to say with great accuracy but my guess is that it would be a bit stiffer. Maybe a sportier feel, maybe a better sprinter. If this is a concern, you should consider it. I can attest though that the Alpe is a smooth riding bike. The bike I ride now is a stiffer, better sprinting bike than my Alpe was and I ride it faster. There is a performance difference. That matters to some and not to others. No right or wrong.

Wheels certainly make a difference but it is arguable as to how much. I started with the stock Matrix Auroras that came on my Alpe and later switched to a deeper profile, lower spoke count wheel and I noticed a performance difference. Again, depends on what you are looking for.

As for weight savings, I weigh 205 so I dont normally comment on weight savings. Neither is super light so that isnt a factor to me. Most of that weight difference is in the wheels though there is some difference in the frames.

My original suggestion was to go with the Zurich mainly because most people regretting not going with the higher line when they discover that they never are able to commit the funds to upgrade. In other words, upgrading wheels later will likely cost more that $400 and you dont get the better frame. That may not be an issue for you.

It comes down to what you are willing to spend and what you want from it. Both are good bikes and you really cant lose. The Alpe was a great first bike and at that price, a really great first bike. The physical difference between the bikes will be relatively minor but perceivable. Maybe the smartest thing to do is save the money now and buy the Alpe and put the savings away for a couple of years from now when you are ready to get the perfect bike. You will have a lot better idea of what you want from a bike at that point.

Good luck.

Thank you very much for your input. I really appreciate you spending the time to respond with your experience. In all fairness, the $400 won't killl me as much as I don't know that I would appreciate the difference between the bikes.

However, I didn't consider the possibility that I may ever want something higher end than the Zurich until your post, which raises another couple questions. How many people would consider a Zurich (or comparable) as their top end and would there be $400 difference in the resale if I want to swap to a higher end bike?

This is exactly what happens to me in this process, I seem to answer one question and come up with two more.

I have lost count to the number of things I thought I knew. Between the conversations with the experienced riders at the LBS and this forum, I am on information overload. I would like the dust in my head to settle soon so I can commit to a road bike and retire my Schwinn 9-five mtn bike to the trails.

Thank you very much for your input. I really appreciate you spending the time to respond with your experience. In all fairness, the $400 won't killl me as much as I don't know that I would appreciate the difference between the bikes.

However, I didn't consider the possibility that I may ever want something higher end than the Zurich until your post, which raises another couple questions. How many people would consider a Zurich (or comparable) as their top end and would there be $400 difference in the resale if I want to swap to a higher end bike?

This is exactly what happens to me in this process, I seem to answer one question and come up with two more.

I have lost count to the number of things I thought I knew. Between the conversations with the experienced riders at the LBS and this forum, I am on information overload. I would like the dust in my head to settle soon so I can commit to a road bike and retire my Schwinn 9-five mtn bike to the trails.


Sounds like you shop exactly like me. Just buying my Alpe was a torturous process. I guess my advice at this point would be buy the one that you cant stop thinking about. If you are like me, you fear regret. You think you should buy one but are you missing out if you do. The answer is no. No matter which you buy, you arent missing out and you didnt make a mistake. They are well made, great riding bikes.

If in your heart you dont care about the Zurich but are considering it because people are saying its better then dont buy it. If this is the case and you buy the Zurich, you may regret spending the money. If it is the Zurich that you find yourself thinking about, then buy it. If you dont, you will regret settling.

When you imagine youself riding, which one are you on? That is the one you should buy and that is the right bike. Again, no matter which one it is, it is the right one. You seriously cant lose.

The more I read from you, the more I think about it, the more I think you ought to go with the Alpe. I'm almost reluctant to say that because, as I say, it's your money and your decision. But you've asked for opinions and I have mine, so with that in mind ...

First of all, Sympatico is giving you some excellent advice, especially since he has first-hand experience with LeMonds (mine is limited to a lot of miles riding alongside a friend whose last and current bike were/are LeMonds). If the Zurich isn't speaking to you all that loudly and you're simply worried that the Alpe is somehow "inferior" -- forget that. You are trying to decide between two very nice bicycles. One does cost more than the other, but it doesn't mean the less expensive one is not a great bike that is not fully capable of satisfying your needs.

Put aside any questions about whether you could recoup more of the Zurich's purchase price on resale. That should be the last thing on your mind right now. You don't buy a bicycle to resell. You buy a bicycle to ride.

If you were buying this bike as your be-all, end-all ride, I'd be more likely to suggest the Zurich. But since you're already thinking this may not be your last bike, consider that the Alpe will give you a fine ride for the next few years and, when you decide you want to move up in the cycling world, you can keep it as your rain bike.

But having said all this, I agree completely with what Sympatico said about buying the one you can't stop thinking about. If that's the Alpe, great ... buy it, save some money, ride the wheels off it, be happy. If it's the Zurich, that's great too. You only go around once, etc.

Whichever you settle on, just be sure you buy it for your reasons, not those of someone else.

The more I read from you, the more I think about it, the more I think you ought to go with the Alpe. I'm almost reluctant to say that because, as I say, it's your money and your decision. But you've asked for opinions and I have mine, so with that in mind ...

First of all, Sympatico is giving you some excellent advice, especially since he has first-hand experience with LeMonds (mine is limited to a lot of miles riding alongside a friend whose last and current bike were/are LeMonds). If the Zurich isn't speaking to you all that loudly and you're simply worried that the Alpe is somehow "inferior" -- forget that. You are trying to decide between two very nice bicycles. One does cost more than the other, but it doesn't mean the less expensive one is not a great bike that is not fully capable of satisfying your needs.

Put aside any questions about whether you could recoup more of the Zurich's purchase price on resale. That should be the last thing on your mind right now. You don't buy a bicycle to resell. You buy a bicycle to ride.

If you were buying this bike as your be-all, end-all ride, I'd be more likely to suggest the Zurich. But since you're already thinking this may not be your last bike, consider that the Alpe will give you a fine ride for the next few years and, when you decide you want to move up in the cycling world, you can keep it as your rain bike.

But having said all this, I agree completely with what Sympatico said about buying the one you can't stop thinking about. If that's the Alpe, great ... buy it, save some money, ride the wheels off it, be happy. If it's the Zurich, that's great too. You only go around once, etc.

Whichever you settle on, just be sure you buy it for your reasons, not those of someone else.

Muchas gracias everyone. My last major concern was exact frame size, so I went to the other store closest to me this morning (the LBS has three locations in town) and found a 2002 Alpe in a 55cm and rode it. It did not feel as good as the 53cm from the other store so they did a fit kit and I came out to a 53.8cm. I was glad to see I wasn't crazy.

Anyway, the 2003 Alpe is in layaway until I can get back over to the other shop, get fitted, and pick it up. The custom fitting will be free and the LBS will actually swap like stems for free or allow a credit to upgrade if desired. Is that normal, or is this just a good shop?

Thank you everyone for the advice. I really like the recommendation to buy the one you see yourself on. All along I have envisioned the Alpe, but I just worried that I was going to miss out if I didn't cough up the extra dough for the Zurich. The guy at the LBS told me that the Zurich is more of a racer anyway. I am probably a year and 25-30 lbs. away from any type of condition that would allow me to race, so I am going to enjoy the Alpe for touring and hopefully group riding when I am able to keep up. It has a beautiful silver frame with orange accents that I do like better than the flashy red, black, and white decal'd up Zurich. Truth be told, I think I just really lusted after the Bontrager Race Lites on the Zurich, they are a temptress.

Hopefully will post details of my first ride this weekend.

Muchas gracias everyone. My last major concern was exact frame size, so I went to the other store closest to me this morning (the LBS has three locations in town) and found a 2002 Alpe in a 55cm and rode it. It did not feel as good as the 53cm from the other store so they did a fit kit and I came out to a 53.8cm. I was glad to see I wasn't crazy.

Anyway, the 2003 Alpe is in layaway until I can get back over to the other shop, get fitted, and pick it up. The custom fitting will be free and the LBS will actually swap like stems for free or allow a credit to upgrade if desired. Is that normal, or is this just a good shop?

Thank you everyone for the advice. I really like the recommendation to buy the one you see yourself on. All along I have envisioned the Alpe, but I just worried that I was going to miss out if I didn't cough up the extra dough for the Zurich. The guy at the LBS told me that the Zurich is more of a racer anyway. I am probably a year and 25-30 lbs. away from any type of condition that would allow me to race, so I am going to enjoy the Alpe for touring and hopefully group riding when I am able to keep up. It has a beautiful silver frame with orange accents that I do like better than the flashy red, black, and white decal'd up Zurich. Truth be told, I think I just really lusted after the Bontrager Race Lites on the Zurich, they are a temptress.

Hopefully will post details of my first ride this weekend.

Congratulations! You will most certainly love the ride. I had an 02, probably like the one you just saw at the other shop. If I am not mistaken, they put a better fork on the 03's.

Anyway, nicely done and many safe and happy miles. :cool:

If its the Bontrager Race Lites that you lust after than ask your LBS to upgrade
the wheels on the Alpe. This assumes you will get credit for the stock wheels.
I upgraded to Race Lites on my Lemond Versailles and noticed a big improvement.
It will probably add $150 the cost of the Alpe but is a good compromise. The 105's
have worked flawlessly for 3000 miles and will support a flight deck computer.