If they do decide to shorten them how many days will they cut?

I really hope they won't be shortened - especially as it won't make the blindest bit of difference to whether riders dope or not.

If they do decide to shorten them how many days will they cut?


Make a 5 week race out of the TdF.

See who the last man left standing (err, biking) is.

As almost all of the grand tours are decided prior to the last week, cutting them back to 2 1/2 weeks would not materially affect anything.

NO! This not just a bad idea, it's a stupid idea. History and tradition are too important for the Grand Tours. It's bad enough having past GT winners with question marks and virtual asterisks next to their names. Do we want future GT winners with real ones? Grand Tours are three weeks long... that's why they're called Grand Tours.

As almost all of the grand tours are decided prior to the last week, cutting them back to 2 1/2 weeks would not materially affect anything.

I don't think that is true. They're usually decided during the last week. The Giro came down to the penultimate day (I think) this year and wasn't it during the last week when Liberty/Heras cracked Menchov? The Tour is more likely to have been concluded prior to the last week simply because the mountains generally end on the second weekend but that's not the case in the Giro or Vuelta. Armstrong's dominance has also ended the GC race prematurely compared to what typically happens in all but 1 year of his reign.

NO! This not just a bad idea, it's a stupid idea. History and tradition are too important for the Grand Tours. It's bad enough having past GT winners with question marks and virtual asterisks next to their names. Do we want future GT winners with real ones? Grand Tours are three weeks long... that's why they're called Grand Tours.


Grand Grand Tour?

This way we can see if Armstrong is bionic or not.

NO! This not just a bad idea, it's a stupid idea. History and tradition are too important for the Grand Tours. It's bad enough having past GT winners with question marks and virtual asterisks next to their names. Do we want future GT winners with real ones? Grand Tours are three weeks long... that's why they're called Grand Tours.


Please check GT history. Not always 3 weeks. Not always 20 stages. Not always 1 race per day.

TdF started with 6 stages. Other years there were often two stages in a single day.

I think the only requirement is that the distance covered be far, and the terrain be grueling.

Hell, let's cut it to 12 stages, 300k per stage :D

Weren't those early TDF stages like 300km+ and the riders would arrive after dark or even midnight?

Anyway, the current setup seems fine, maybe 16-17 stages instead of 20.

Weren't those early TDF stages like 300km+ and the riders would arrive after dark or even midnight?

Anyway, the current setup seems fine, maybe 16-17 stages instead of 20.


the early days of the tour were like modern RAAM minus the aero equip. they were essentially brevet competitions, covering 400, 500 or even 600k per day. it would have been crazy. no one would do it now.

Please check GT history. Not always 3 weeks. Not always 20 stages. Not always 1 race per day.

TdF started with 6 stages. Other years there were often two stages in a single day.

I think the only requirement is that the distance covered be far, and the terrain be grueling.

Hell, let's cut it to 12 stages, 300k per stage :D

The question was about whether the Grand Tours should be shortened.

I'm well aware of the fact that the TDF hasn't always been 3 weeks and etc. and etc. and etc. I know the Tour was a full month, has had many multi-stage days and that Hinault lead a sit down strike in 1978 in protest.

The Tour has been about 21 to 24 days long since the late 1950's and all the Grand Tours have been essentially three week races during the modern era of cycling.

No way. Vive le tour.

Please check GT history. Not always 3 weeks. Not always 20 stages. Not always 1 race per day.

TdF started with 6 stages. Other years there were often two stages in a single day.

I think the only requirement is that the distance covered be far, and the terrain be grueling.

Hell, let's cut it to 12 stages, 300k per stage :D


As long as the Alp D'Huez is repeated 10 times in 1 day. :D

is getting stupid. How by cutting a few days off of a Grand Tour going to make better racing?

It isn't supposed to improve the racing at the GT's. It is supposed to allow more races to enter the Pro Tour schedule. They feel the commitment is too large for the GT's and it is affecting the showing at regional races that aren't on the pro tour. The pro tour teams have to show at all events, so they are cutting smaller races out of their calanders as a result.

They can just get rid of the second rest day requirement and easily cut a day that way. The TTT could also be gotten rid of and where there hasn't been a prologue I haven't missed it. So there's 3 days that won't make a bit of difference. Beyond that forget it.

It sometimes seems like they are on a mission to destroy the fan base of cycling. Why do they think the Midi Libre, Paris Nice, and Dauphine have had a history of financial troubles? What people turn out for and remember are the longest hardest stages and races because they want to see suffering and the limits of human endurance.

Turning the grand Tours into watered down versions is only going to alienate the fans that are still left after the stepped up drug testing soured them and the sponsors with the impression that cycling is the sport with all the doping.

They can just get rid of the second rest day requirement and easily cut a day that way. The TTT could also be gotten rid of and where there hasn't been a prologue I haven't missed it. So there's 3 days that won't make a bit of difference. Beyond that forget it.

It sometimes seems like they are on a mission to destroy the fan base of cycling. Why do they think the Midi Libre, Paris Nice, and Dauphine have had a history of financial troubles? What people turn out for and remember are the longest hardest stages and races because they want to see suffering and the limits of human endurance.

Turning the grand Tours into watered down versions is only going to alienate the fans that are still left after the stepped up drug testing soured them and the sponsors with the impression that cycling is the sport with all the doping.

TTTs do make a huge difference. Look at when Postal/Disco threw down the gauntlet and took time out of Armstrong's closest competitors, and then they had to try and make up the ground somewhere else. So yeah, TTTs do make a big difference.

All the DSs are saying their riders are worn out after racing so much with the protour this year, and this is a possible solution. The problem is that the B-team guys are the ones who are worn out. It's the domestiques who get sent to all the races that are not really in a team's interest, and have been racing nonstop since February.

Somehow the Protour needs to get the best riders into a lot of events through some kind of points system, or they need to scrap the idea of requiring all these teams to go to every event. Why send a Disco team to Lombardia this weekend? It's pointless, but it will be another racing day for all their tired guys. Why force Euskatel to race PR. They'll just send a bunch of their lousier riders and tire them out.

I also don't know how they could get good riders in the races they want. It would probably end up like Mario in the vuelta a couple of years ago, show up for the first day, then abandon. Or ride it, but not care about the win.

As is, the system does not make sense, and shortening the GTs will do nothing to repair it.

Silas

I, for one, don't want to see an easier GT. I am interested to see how things are going to be in the post-Armstrong era. This should be interesting--hopefully.

As far as Le Tour is concerned, I'd like to see mountain stages in the first week, then flats in the 2nd, and then mountains in the 3rd again, or something in that general idea. The Giro was great this year with a mountain stage as the penultimate stage. It really made it interesting.

But definitely don't shorten them!

Adding more races to the Pro Tour but make it a requirement to only do a percentage of them like 75%.

If they do decide to shorten them how many days will they cut?

They can cut out most of the first week as far as I'm concerned. The flat sprint stages are usually fairly boring.

Removing days is only going to make for longer transfers, and it won't take long for everyone involved to ***** about that, too. I say don't mess with a good thing.

Adding more races to the Pro Tour but make it a requirement to only do a percentage of them like 75%.

It's an interesting idea, but how many teams would race the tour of poland then? My advice would be to shrink the protour down to the really important races, big classics and grand tours, along with the biggest week long stage races. Make them all required. Then have a promotional calendar, where protour teams are required to go to some of the races with continental teams from US and Europe filling up the rest of the peloton. It would shrink the racing season for the big teams and allow for the small teams to show their ability.

Silas

How about a grand tour in the USA?