http://www.letour.fr/2006/TDF/presentation/us/parcours.html

In july... I will sleep very well!!!!!!

Why is it stupid? What would you have done differently?

Looks good to me...no TTT which is disappointing but I'd rather see a vanilla route and let all the gorillas fight it out for alpha male status. Should be the best race in 7 years (altho 2003 was pretty killer).

Why is it stupid? What would you have done differently?
The mountain stages are ridicolous (except la toussouire) with giant like Tourmalet, Izoard and galibier completely out of the games (at the begin of the stages). The final climb are too easies (pla beret is not a real climb, la toussuire is a long 6% climb and l'alp d'Huez is a normal 8% climb like Joux Plane.
Please note that the hardest climb of tour 2006 (the col of Joux Plane) is most easy that the DuranPass of giro 2005. But duranPass (in the giro 2005) not was a HorsCategorie climb like Stelvio, finestre, Erbe or Meltina.....
When we will see a Tour with real hard climb like mont Colombis, Puy de dome, Grand colombiere, col du Chat, Granon, Agnel in a tour de France?
When we will see a tour without tons of flattish miles between the final two climbs???

The mountain stages are ridicolous (except la toussouire) with giant like Tourmalet, Izoard and galibier completely out of the games (at the begin of the stages). The final climb are too easies (pla beret is not a real climb, la toussuire is a long 6% climb and l'alp d'Huez is a normal 8% climb like Joux Plane.
Please note that the hardest climb of tour 2006 (the col of Joux Plane) is most easy that the DuranPass of giro 2005. But duranPass (in the giro 2005) not was a HorsCategorie climb like Stelvio, finestre, Erbe or Meltina.....
When we will see a Tour with real hard climb like mont Colombis, Puy de dome, Grand colombiere, col du Chat, Granon, Agnel in a tour de France?
When we will see a tour without tons of flattish miles between the final two climbs???

They want Jan Ulrich to win this next year. Vinokurov must be salivating at these easy climbs.

Im a bit torn at this decision.... I think for the Tour, it is good and bad... and it is also very political. Number one... I think it is a snub to US riders. You may scoff at this, but if you look at the overall domination of TTs by americans in the past few years, you will see that the number of americans in the top 10 and 20 after the TTT were astounding. What this will do is decrease the need of teams to have such strong TTers... so less Americans. Why else have a Zabriske? It will decrease the time gains by those on teams with more Americans... ie: Discovery and CSC.... so, definitely interesting. So teams will have options to grab another sprinter or another mountain goat.... leaving otherwise strong TTers out of the picture. So, is this good... perhaps. It will most definitely leave an american out of the picture for a top 5, and give a winner to a European... which is good in a historical sense, I guess. However, will it further degrade American viewership that will already be in decline post Lance.... probably. Is that good... Id say no.

The TTT was not real tv friendly, and is a pretty costly endeavor for the teams with less of a budget than the super teams. It was one of those disciplines that I think exposed the strong riders with weaker teams unfairly. Thus I think it will definitely improve the chances of individuals with a weaker supporting cast, and in the long run, I think that is good, but kind of sad in a way. I have a weird feeling in the pit of my stomach about this, despite their public justifications, that there is more to this than meets the eye and the passive-aggressive posture made by the organizers at disco and lance are.... peculiar.

They want Jan Ulrich to win this next year. Vinokurov must be salivating at these easy climbs.

He may be a bit too much like Hincapie - both great riders, great guys, no killer instinct. However, if he can pull it off, I'd be more stoked than the last 7 years with Lance. I just think he deserves another one.

The mountain stages are ridicolous (except la toussouire) with giant like Tourmalet, Izoard and galibier completely out of the games (at the begin of the stages). The final climb are too easies (pla beret is not a real climb, la toussuire is a long 6% climb and l'alp d'Huez is a normal 8% climb like Joux Plane.
Please note that the hardest climb of tour 2006 (the col of Joux Plane) is most easy that the DuranPass of giro 2005. But duranPass (in the giro 2005) not was a HorsCategorie climb like Stelvio, finestre, Erbe or Meltina.....
When we will see a Tour with real hard climb like mont Colombis, Puy de dome, Grand colombiere, col du Chat, Granon, Agnel in a tour de France?
When we will see a tour without tons of flattish miles between the final two climbs???

In case you missed the memo, Le Tour is not Il Giro. Never was, never will be. The Tour is designed to find the complete rider, while the Giro has recently been a climber's race with emphasis on the steepest cols available. Also, Stelvio and Finestre were both non-final climbs in the Giro, with the Stelvio having little impact on the race.

If the tour is too traditional for you, by all means skip it. But I wouldn't expect it to change anytime soon.

Silas

As far as the TTT goes, I'd say good riddance to the version that they've had in recent years. If our choices are no TTT, or else the "socialized" crap we've been dealing with, let's get rid of it. As it stands, a good team helps you out in so many other ways, it'd be nice to allow the quality riders on the less-than-awesome teams have more of a chance.

The thing with the way that TTT's work seems to be that, at the top level, the splits can be ENORMOUS between the best 3 teams and the bottom 5-10, but it would look silly to have it be
1) Disco, T-mobile, CSC, etc riders
2) Everyone else at 30:00

after the TTT. But this "20-seconds-per-position" thing was just wrong. And yeah, you could shorten it, but how short would it need to be to not have that effect? What would the USE of a 20k Team Time Trial be?

As far as the mountain stages go, I'd like to see some tougher finishes, but mostly I just wish I could watch TV coverage of the Giro and Vuelta every day it's running, too.

As far as the TTT goes, I'd say good riddance to the version that they've had in recent years. If our choices are no TTT, or else the "socialized" crap we've been dealing with, let's get rid of it. As it stands, a good team helps you out in so many other ways, it'd be nice to allow the quality riders on the less-than-awesome teams have more of a chance.


Amen to that! The new TTT is just crap anyhow and has little impact really on the race.

In case you missed the memo, Le Tour is not Il Giro. Never was, never will be. The Tour is designed to find the complete rider, while the Giro has recently been a climber's race with emphasis on the steepest cols available. Also, Stelvio and Finestre were both non-final climbs in the Giro, with the Stelvio having little impact on the race.

If the tour is too traditional for you, by all means skip it. But I wouldn't expect it to change anytime soon.

Silas
The tour not is traditional is OLD!!!
In 60' 70' when giro climbs like Pordoi or Sella Pass (with average 6%) were the hardest mountain in the race, on the route of tour there are climbs like Puy de Dome or Ventoux. (most most harder....)

But the average speed of the racers (the average racers not the top racers) was 20Km\h on that climb. Now is 30Km\h!!!

The average grade of the climbs is proportionally improved at giro for create a 'terrain' for solo action or long escape. Is not a climber's race (Savoldelli wins in 2005 and he is not a climber...) but isn't a race blocked by the big teams. (Teams that regulary explodes on the hard climbs...

Im a bit torn at this decision.... I think for the Tour, it is good and bad... and it is also very political. Number one... I think it is a snub to US riders. You may scoff at this, but if you look at the overall domination of TTs by americans in the past few years, you will see that the number of americans in the top 10 and 20 after the TTT were astounding. What this will do is decrease the need of teams to have such strong TTers... so less Americans. Why else have a Zabriske? It will decrease the time gains by those on teams with more Americans... ie: Discovery and CSC.... so, definitely interesting. So teams will have options to grab another sprinter or another mountain goat.... leaving otherwise strong TTers out of the picture. So, is this good... perhaps. It will most definitely leave an american out of the picture for a top 5, and give a winner to a European... which is good in a historical sense, I guess. However, will it further degrade American viewership that will already be in decline post Lance.... probably. Is that good... Id say no.

The TTT was not real tv friendly, and is a pretty costly endeavor for the teams with less of a budget than the super teams. It was one of those disciplines that I think exposed the strong riders with weaker teams unfairly. Thus I think it will definitely improve the chances of individuals with a weaker supporting cast, and in the long run, I think that is good, but kind of sad in a way. I have a weird feeling in the pit of my stomach about this, despite their public justifications, that there is more to this than meets the eye and the passive-aggressive posture made by the organizers at disco and lance are.... peculiar.

This Tour would still be good for a guy who can climb and TT, as there are still going to be 2 long ITTs for this Tour. I think that this route, after checking it out further, is going to make the race a lot more interesting. Cyclingnews.com this morning was talking about how it is a more classical route, and a very hard route. I'm hoping that this one isn't decided in the first week post TTT, which they're not having one, so that will leave the door a little more open for others within the race.

I think realistically, you're looking probably at the following contenders for next year:

• Basso
• Vino
• Ullrich
• Valverde
• Hamilton (if he's found not guilty of blood doping and all)
• Popo

And I'm sure there are some other names we could through in there as well.

• Basso
• Vino
• Ullrich
• Valverde


Damn...you must've dug out the crystal ball for that list!? ;)

http://www.letour.fr/2006/TDF/presentation/us/profil_16.html So 42.8km at an average 4.5% followed by 22.7km at 7% capped off with a little 5.8km at 7% and 18.4km at 6% is ridiculous?
The course has to have a bit of balance, or the winner isn't a true winner. Look at what used to happen with the Giro. It was well known that the course in the 80's was designed with Moser in mind, with fewer high mountain finishes and longer TT's. Ask Fignon about '84, TT's and helicopters!!
Three Apline stages back to back with all but the last being summit finishes isn't ridiculous unless you have to ride them!

(I think realistically, you're looking probably at the following contenders for next year:

• Basso
• Vino
• Ullrich
• Valverde
• Hamilton (if he's found not guilty of blood doping and all)
• Popo

And I'm sure there are some other names we could through in there as well. )

You forgot one MAJOR Name Cunego!!!!

His season next year is going to something to see!

You forgot one MAJOR Name Cunego!!!!

His season next year is going to something to see!
It will be, but the real question is, will Cunego ride in the TDF next year?

I agree with your list of

• Basso
• Vino
• Ullrich
• Valverde
• Hamilton (if he's found not guilty of blood doping and all)
• Popo

Except, Popo, i think he's a great rider and one year he will win the tour, but not this year, he needs a bit longer to be classified as a full contender. Hamilton will be one of the best there if he's allowed to ride, he'll be training excessively while he can't compete knowing that he can give himself every chance to win.
What about Michael Rogers, theres like over 100miles of ITT, it's a great route for him. You also forgot Hincapie, he'll be in with a shot, put him with Popo and they'll be able to kick ass together, disco boys will still be a very classy experienced team without Lance. I'd like to hope as an Aussie that Brad McGee could be in with a chance if he decides to ride for himself this year and go for it seriously, but i guess we can only hope. Personally i'd love to see Vino win it with Liberty and put it to Ullrich and T-Mobile. Buts thats me i guess

As crap as the capped time loss rule is, I'd rather see the tour with a TTT and bogus rule than without it. Without a TTT, I think the podium will depend on if Ullrich is a better time trialist than Basso is a climber, that being determined by how they plan their schedules and when they both peak. I think Valverde is still too young for a FT victory and Vino still a top 10 but no podium with Seguros. Personally, I think Ullrich will bury Basso. That's the news from my armchair but it's a long time until July.

On a side note, 2wheelsport and I rode with Levi, Dave Zabriski and Fast Freddy yesterday in West Marin. A grand day out with tons of other tallent (Larry Nolan, Scott McKinley, Kathryn Curi, Christine Thornburn, Betina Hold et al.) Levi passed me on the first climb and it resembled getting buzzed by a motorcycle. I'm now a fan...

As crap as the capped time loss rule is, I'd rather see the tour with a TTT and bogus rule than without it. Without a TTT, I think the podium will depend on if Ullrich is a better time trialist than Basso is a climber, that being determined by how they plan their schedules and when they both peak. I think Valverde is still too young for a FT victory and Vino still a top 10 but no podium with Seguros. Personally, I think Ullrich will bury Basso. That's the news from my armchair but it's a long time until July.

On a side note, 2wheelsport and I rode with Levi, Dave Zabriski and Fast Freddy yesterday in West Marin. A grand day out with tons of other tallent (Larry Nolan, Scott McKinley, Kathryn Curi, Christine Thornburn, Betina Hold et al.) Levi passed me on the first climb and it resembled getting buzzed by a motorcycle. I'm now a fan...

is that it's an event inside the event. Kinda like a "superbowl" event. The TTT shows the world who the strongest teams are.

There's a separate TTT championship which the ProTour teams totally ignored this season - perhaps that's somewhere for the best teams to show their talent?

is that it's an event inside the event. Kinda like a "superbowl" event. The TTT shows the world who the strongest teams are.
Right. I guess my post wasn't very clear thanks to a visit from Mr. Zinfandel last night. I'm all for the TTT even with the crap rule. Stage 4 has always been one of my favorites to watch and I will miss it this year. Watching a squad execute a paceline in such a manner is really amazing.

Valverde
Simoni
Ullrich
Basso
Cunego
or
wild card
That's my top 5
That's not my order

I think TDF is the highlight of sport on TV. Seeing Hincapie winning after serving Lance all these years is just great. I am from Norway and our expert commentator on TV 2 that sends all the stages is Johan Kaggestad; the trainer of Grethe Waitz and Ingrid Kristiansen, who also has a son ,Mads, who is a pro in the Credit Agricole team. With Hushovd competing for the green jersey it has been some exiting hours in front of the telly. With Lance gone it is open season and I am really looking forward to next july.