After agonizing over new wheels for months, I finally purchased a set of custom built wheels from a reputable wheel builder that is well respected in this and other forums. The rear wheel build is:

White LTA hub, 36 hole
Velocity Fusion Rim
Drive side 15 double butted spoke(Wheelsmith) with brass nipples
non-drive sisde 14/15 bladed spokes(Wheelsmith) with alloy nipples

Since receiveing these wheels, I have had numerous problems with the rear wheel. On the third ride, I had a drive side nipple unscrew, which threw the wheel out of true. After having that fixed, I put about 500 miles on the wheel, and then a non-driveside spoke broke at the hub, the head sheared off, wheel again WAY out of true. I sent that back to be rebuilt and got that back two weeks ago. 40 miles out in the middle of nowhere, with only 60 miles on the rebuilt wheels, I broke another spoke, this on drive side, at the hub. I hobbled to a SAG and shut it down. Wheel is again in need of maintenance.

What gives?? These are expensive wheels, built by a reputable builder, and I am about to throw them in the @#%* garbage I am so frustrated. I had my previous set of wheels for 3 years and had zero problems with them. Any suggestions, thoughts, etc. on what is going on, and what I might do to avoid running these *#@! wheels over with a truck?

After agonizing over new wheels for months, I finally purchased a set of custom built wheels from a reputable wheel builder that is well respected in this and other forums. The rear wheel build is:

White LTA hub, 36 hole
Velocity Fusion Rim
Drive side 15 double butted spoke(Wheelsmith) with brass nipples
non-drive sisde 14/15 bladed spokes(Wheelsmith) with alloy nipples

Since receiveing these wheels, I have had numerous problems with the rear wheel. On the third ride, I had a drive side nipple unscrew, which threw the wheel out of true. After having that fixed, I put about 500 miles on the wheel, and then a non-driveside spoke broke at the hub, the head sheared off, wheel again WAY out of true. I sent that back to be rebuilt and got that back two weeks ago. 40 miles out in the middle of nowhere, with only 60 miles on the rebuilt wheels, I broke another spoke, this on drive side, at the hub. I hobbled to a SAG and shut it down. Wheel is again in need of maintenance.

What gives?? These are expensive wheels, built by a reputable builder, and I am about to throw them in the @#%* garbage I am so frustrated. I had my previous set of wheels for 3 years and had zero problems with them. Any suggestions, thoughts, etc. on what is going on, and what I might do to avoid running these *#@! wheels over with a truck?


not sure how this person could be "reputable" building such crap. take them back and demand a refund...take your $$ elsewhere...seriously. its not only a frustrating thing, your life may depend on teh quality of your wheels at high speed and I would say you're currently in a lot of danger.

they do not negate your comment. If a wheel is properly conceived, the wheel should not have problems like that. Is tension too high on the drive side?? Is this a batch of bad Wheelsmiths? Is there a weird build-radial spokes on drive side? Is the hub in need of a countersink job? Hmmm. Very strange...


not sure how this person could be "reputable" building such crap. take them back and demand a refund...take your $$ elsewhere...seriously. its not only a frustrating thing, your life may depend on teh quality of your wheels at high speed and I would say you're currently in a lot of danger.

If wheel was built to your specs, you fouled up. White Hubs have 2.6 mm spoke holes and your 15 gauge spokes are way too loose in the hub and your 14G spokes are just too loose. Both sets of spokes need the small DT brass washers to use up the slop between the spoke head and the hole. 14G DB would be more appropriate on the drive side. I despise AL nipples and they are usually a source of problem. Another problem was the wheel was not built with enough tension, if a spoke came loose that quickly. When you get the wheel back, pluck all of the spokes one at a time and see if they all have a similar ping. One that is a little more bassy is too loose. This can be verified by a tensiometer. Another problem is that having a spoke break while on the road can cause stress in the rim and make it impossible to get even tension. Ask the builder to check the rim for taco while he has it apart.

Agree, goofy build. You're trying to build a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Re-build them 3x both sides, DB spokes or all bladed, all brass nips.

The rear wheel is laced 3x.

The first failure I think was a fluke, as the nipple unscrewed, didn't get stripped. The two spoke breaks were very similar though, sheared off right at the hub, though on different sites.

When I sent the wheels back the last time, I asked the builder to make them stronger, perhaps using 14/15 non bladed and all brass nipples, and he didn't think that was necessary. So he built them back up with the different spokes, and alloy nipples on the non drive side.

I don't want to call the builder out here, as he has been a pretty good guy about dealing with the failures. You will have to trust me that it is a builder who is well known in this forum, and who I was encouraged to put my faith in by many of the participants of this forum. Frankly though, I am beginning to lose faith. This build is clearly not working, and I have tried hard to explain honestly the kind of rider I am. Signs point to either the spokes or the craftsmanship.

I think I have learned the the few extra gram or aero saving I might get from this build are likely insignificant. I am considering having them rebuilt locally with NEW rims, likely CXP 33s. I am expecting to ditch the bladed spokes in favor of a stronger spoke. Thoughts? I know I should probably have the original builder fix this, but I am sick of shipping these wheels back and waiting 2-3 weeks to get them back, only to have to do it again a week later.

Non drive side spokes break because of too little tension, and drive side spokes break because of too much tension. How much do you weigh ? The bladed spokes wouldn't make any difference in breaking because they broke at the round "J" bend.

I am 249 currently, was a bit heavier when these wheels were ordered. I am also a bit of a masher, though that has lessened as I have been training for distances.

I explained all of this to the builder when I ordered the wheels. I these wheels have also now been rebuilt after stress testing, and they have failed again. Not sure this has proven so hard to dial in.

At that weight, your rear wheel should last at least a year or two before it starts to break spokes. ( You will have to have the rear wheel rebuilt more often than a 150 pound rider will.)
Unless you got defective spokes, this is a Wheel builder problem.

At that weight, your rear wheel should last at least a year or two before it starts to break spokes. ( You will have to have the rear wheel rebuilt more often than a 150 pound rider will.)
Unless you got defective spokes, this is a Wheel builder problem.

Yeah, I don't ride particularly hard on equipment, even though I am a big guy. The wheels that came on the bike have held up like tanks. This just ain't right.

Like I said, I spent a great deal of time(seemyprevious posts in May) and affort deciding between these wheels and factory wheels. I gotta say, after this experince, goign forward I will put more faith in the quality control measures of companies like Mavic. I doubt very seriously if a pair of Ksyrium Elites would have given me these problems.

I would talk to the builder again and arrange to send them back. Even a good builder, I guess is entitled to a bad day or a bad wheel. It is possible when you sent the wheel back the first time he only fixed it not totally re-built it. I have an idea of one or two people this could be. Insist he entirely re-build the wheel using new spokes and nipples. Even offer to help pay for the extra cost, which you shouldn't have to do, and he probably won't accept. You, as you did in the past can use your wheel that came on the bike until it comes back. It is frustrating but don't give up. You could mention that you heard about him from the forums. Every internet supplier is very sensitive about their reputation on these forums. You don't have to threaten him, again just mention that you heard about him on the forum and his good reputation and you are disappointed baised on what you heard. He will do the right thing.

"I am considering having them rebuilt locally with NEW rims, likely CXP 33s."

I am having a bit of understanding problem with this statement. Were they used rims on the initial build of this set of problem wheels?? If so, there may have been a bit of stress in the rim that made it difficult to give you a true wheel and even spoke tension at the same time. If these were new Velocity rims, the builder should chamfer the nipple seat in the rim with a small 90 degree countersink. This give a much more stable surface for the nipple to seat against and greatly extends the wheel life. This is per a suggestion by a wheelbuilder that has built many Velocity wheelsets for Velocity. I have had great results with their rims using well established wheelbuilding processes. Your builder should have as good results. Their Deep V rim is really rugged, but does not have the ride quality of their lower profile rims. You can expect the CXP 33 to have a similar ride and great durability. Building wheels for a large person can be a quite challenging. I do understand that there are large people that love to ride bikes and want as little problem as possible, but many builders do not understand the stress involved. You may need to talk to a builder that has good results on tandem wheels as the forces are similar.

The only questionable parts in this equation are the hubs and the build. Those rims should have given you a fine wheel set with a 36 spoke build. If the hubs have a poor flange design or the wheels were poorly built, those are your explanations. The rims and spokes are not the problem. When spokes come loose, that is a sign of too little tension. Likewise the breaking of NDS spokes.

The Velocity rims were new when the wheels were first built. The front rim has been replaced, but that was because I blew tire while climbing out of the saddle, went over the bars and bent the rim. The rear rim has not been swapped out as far as I know, through three(fourth coming up) repairs. There was no damage to the rear rim.

The reason I wanted a CXP 33 has more to do with a fresh start. I am really psyched out with these wheels, and don't trust them at all.

Aside from the normal grooves dug into the flange as the spoke set, I cannot discern any problems with the hub. On principal I want the original builder to fix the product I spent so much money on, but at this point it is hard for me to trust his build. Hard not to chalk it up as a lesson learned and move on.