I have a chance to get a 585 or a King. (reg slop tube). Which is the better choice, the price is pretty close so that is not a concern...

I had a chance to try a 585 for a short period of time and wasn't impressed with it. There was skome flex (I had 90kg than) and didn't like it's HAC5 fork..., I guess that the fork is something you don't spare on material to make it light. But this all might be subjectice because it was not my bike :)
I didn't try King Xlight so I can't help you there.
Whatever you choose it will be a great bike. I would choose DeRosa only because it is my favorite brand.

I have a chance to get a 585 or a King. (reg slop tube). Which is the better choice, the price is pretty close so that is not a concern...

Just gave Competitive Cyclist a call about not seeing DeRosa's on their web site.
Turns out the new US distributor will only authorize DeRosa sales through LBS, no more
internet sales. Personally, I purchased a 585 last year and outfitted with Campy Record.
You can easily get a 17-19 lb bike depending on your choice of components. I could
not be happier. I think Look has more experience with CF than DeRosa. BTW, I own
an older DeRosa too.

I think Look has more experience with CF than DeRosa. BTW, I own
an older DeRosa too.

I agre that LOOK has more experience with CF than DeRosa, probbably only Colnago can match it. Bbut I also think that mr. Ugo wouldn't sell something that is not engineered to mach the quality of other DeRosa bikes. IMHO building CF frames has become something very common so everyone can make a good frame, thats why there is more and more sub €2000 CF frames.

I agre that LOOK has more experience with CF than DeRosa, probbably only Colnago can match it. Bbut I also think that mr. Ugo wouldn't sell something that is not engineered to mach the quality of other DeRosa bikes. IMHO building CF frames has become something very common so everyone can make a good frame, thats why there is more and more sub €2000 CF frames.

There are more and more sub $2K frames because more and more of them are being manufactured in Tawain or China. As the raw material cost has spiraled upwards (thanks in part to the little exercise Mr. Bush is carrying on in Iraq), bike manufacturers are like any other business. Cut costs to remain profitable and competitive (laying up carbon is very labor intensive). I am not commenting on the quality of the Pacific Rim frames frames, just the economic reality.

Unfortunately, I haven't ridden the DeRosa. There just aren't many King or King Xtra-Lights floating around. I can say the Look 585 is, hands down, the best frame I have ever ridden. It fits me like a custom bike, it is stout out of the saddle, compliant on rough roads, super-light under acceleration, not at all twitchy in handling, great descender...I could go on and on. I have tested (on more than one ride) some top-end bikes this year: Pinarello F4:13, Pinarello Dogma, Cannondale Six13, Fondreist Carbon Lex, and the 585. The Lex and Dogma were probably tied for 2nd in performance (stiffness, road feel, handling) but the Look was noticeably better than anything else in this crop of "superbikes". I am 5 foot 9, 150lbs, and ride the 53cm with a 115mm stem and about 10cm saddle-bar drop.

You won't go wrong with either of your choices. The Neo Primato was a fine-handling bike that I really enjoyed on my test ride. I am sure that the King is a fine frame, as is the 585. At this level, there aren't any "bad" bikes. Just make sure you get one that is set up for your weight and riding style, and that fits you the best. Even out of all the bikes I tested above, I would happily own any of them (except for the F4:13: it was too stiff for me and really beat me up). In fact, I still own the Lex (it was my bike before the 585 came along).

I will shortly be able to give an answer from personal experience. I've had a king for about a year and am getting a 585 shortly, having made the deal. I also have a Dual, which I use for most races rather than the King. Dunno why I prefer the Dual for races and for mountain club rides, but it seems just ever so slightly more "racy" as in a little better uphill and a bit quicker handling than the King. Of course, you pay for that in comfort, somewhat, and the King is really great downhill on technical stuff. I am hoping the 585 will climb like the Dual and descend like the King. The Dual is a bit fragile, too..I ruined one in a crash, denting the top tube..but at 1100 gram, I guess sturdy is not likely.
Anyhow, the King is a surperbe ride. Not a specialty racing ride, but more of an all round performance bike that you can race. The 585 will be pretty much my race bike only..after all, why not train on the King and show up for group rides on that beautiful bike? I will post when I get my 585 done and compare the two (or three, including the Dual)
Don Hanson

I will shortly be able to give an answer from personal experience. I will post when I get my 585 done and compare the two (or three, including the Dual)
Don Hanson

I just built my new Look 585 and have been riding it for a week now. It's a very good bike. As good as my King. Different feel to it, a bit "tighter" and it climbs slightly better than the King. More of a 'forward' position to the geometry and it is lighter. I used the components right off my King, including the same wheels (Zipp 303 tubulars) and the same cranks, so I did get a good fair comparison, riding some of the same roads, too. Both are simply great bikes. No odd behaviors, no shortcomings. Super.

The King has a better build quality, but not by much. If you compared the King to say a Giant, the difference in quality would be huge, but the Look is close..The King is still the ultimate club ride bike, or century bike, or all around road riding bike, but I think the Look 585 will be a better race bike..Doing the Wa. State HC championship this weekend at Crystal Mountain, Washington, so I will find out how that new Look feels going up a couple of thousand feet, fast as I can push it.. The King has more 'exclusivity'..You just don't see many around and when you do, they always stand out..(could be I am tuned..being a King rider myself) while the Look 585 is more common, especially at races.

I haven't had time to ride the Dual and the Look back to back, but I am guessing the Dual will be quicker handling, less stable on descents and slightly less comfortable over rough pavment. The Dual will be my crit bike, as it is now, and also be drafted into TT configuration occaisionally.

So which is better? Ha! who knows, I guess it's all a matter of personal taste. I love the King, but I am going to keep the Look and give it a good year of racing..maybe I'll love it as much as the King, for different atributes..
Don Hanson

Can't justify two high end CF frames at the same time, so the King is listed on Ebay, if anyone is looking for one..sloping geometry about 58-59...

Don, is it King or King Xlight?

A King.

It would be interesting to see/hear if anyone has any experience/opinion on whether there is much difference between the King and the King Extralight. From what I see and read, the difference is the Extralight now has a carbon headtube rather than the alloy one of the "plain ole" King. That and some new graphics available. All the rest of the bikes look to be identical, and the geometry tables show no changes in any measurments in any of the sizes, so I'm guessing they've not done different molds. The forks are still outside sourced from the same guys and also 'look' identical.

I wonder if anyone could actually feel the difference between a king with an alloy headtube unit and a carbon one? That'd be a fairly subtile difference, I bet..but every little bit helps at this level of bike building, I guess..
Don Hanson

Ok it's been about 3 months since I first started riding the Look. Comparing the Look 585 to the King is like...a Porsche 996 compared to a Ferrari Marinello...Both outstanding rides..in slightly different ways but outstanding .
I've done a couple of stage races with the Look and think it is a better race bike than the King. Lighter and more responsive and very very good, all around. But the King, I would probably choose that for public centuries or for very rough roads. For two very similar bikes (Price, material, size, etc) they feel quite different in the way they fit. I can't quite pinpoint why this is. Both are super comfortable and I wouldn't change anything on either for the fit, but they are unique ..

I guess that says it..almost a tie, in my estimation...with my very reluctant nod, me being primarily a racer, going to the 585..But I could race the King and I could also ride centuries or club rides or even credit card tour on the Look as well..

Don Hanson

Just gave Competitive Cyclist a call about not seeing DeRosa's on their web site.
Turns out the new US distributor will only authorize DeRosa sales through LBS, no more
internet sales. Personally, I purchased a 585 last year and outfitted with Campy Record.
You can easily get a 17-19 lb bike depending on your choice of components. I could
not be happier. I think Look has more experience with CF than DeRosa. BTW, I own
an older DeRosa too.


That is not quite correct. Suspect may be related to transition from the former distributor and CC unloading DeRosa frames at killer deals during the transition. Don't know if that was the issue, or they simply couldn't come to terms. There are so many variables in a distribution agreement and either party can refuse.

The Avant is on my short list but it is frustrating as there appears to be a gap in sizing 55 to 58 and I probably slot halfway between them. But finding an LBS for sizing (a 55 or 58 in stock might be too much to ask) is difficult. I guess the current distributor, Albabici, presumes nobody rides bikes in Florida. The closest LBS's are in Texas and Virginia.

That leaves internet and according to Albabici's site, on dealer search you can choose "Online dealer" or "Local Dealers". The two internet dealers listed (and confirmed on their web sites) are RACycles and CBike. Neither had "Local pickup" disclaimers. Appears Competitive Cyclist was left out - or was unwilling to accept the terms of the new distributor.