An obscure journalist named Bob Woodward seems to have had knowledge of Valery Plame's CIA connections a month before Libby is said to have "Outed" her." My goodness!

Nothing from the left? Whut up, liberal Libby haters? Bob Woodward, you remember him? Watergate? Deep Throat? Got hisself 'nuther source. Scooter wasn't first, Val wasn't a virgin after all?

this doesn't mean that Scooter's getting off, more like someone else is getting a subpoena. what it appears is there was a conspiracy to out plame.

to call crickets

to call crickets

It hasn't been taking you that long all evening, 'junkie, darlin'. Besides, I'm excited to hear your reaction, and this was it?

that this new evidence adds to indictments vs subtracts?

this doesn't mean that Scooter's getting off, more like someone else is getting a subpoena. what it appears is there was a conspiracy to out plame.

Do you suppose Woodward will go to jail to protect his source? Heard it was a former government official. Boy, this could be interesting. Who was THIS masked man? Which government? Boy, Bob Woodward.

Scooter was charged with lying to the grand jury. Did Bob Woodward say that Scooter didn't lie, didn't impede the investigation, was consistent in all of his testimony? I must have missed that.

that this new evidence adds to indictments vs subtracts?

Wasn't he pretty tight with Bill Clinton? Oh no, not AGAIN!

he seems to be a w apologist so I'll wait to see how this comes out in the wash. and he basically lied to his people so we know he's following policy. clearly the WH was leaking this info to a variety of media folks. I don't see how this makes anything better other than saying,well Scooter wasn't first. he still leaked info.

and maybe ole bob will get an obstruction charge as well. The Cons can get their revenge for Watergate finally

Scooter was charged with lying to the grand jury. Did Bob Woodward say that Scooter didn't lie, didn't impede the investigation, was consistent in all of his testimony? I must have missed that.

The SP said Libby was the initial source, the first. That he exposed an otherwise secret operative (not so) and that is what drives his prosecution of Libby. She was not covert and it was already known she worked for the CIA. The lie Libby told was that he couldn't remember. Woodward says he told a guy that doesn't remember that either. I'm askeered. There's lots of things I can't remember on a daily basis, like "what did I come in here for." I hope that doesn't "leak" out.

You're late to the game my rightsided friend. Read my post "Oops!" But I guess this can't be discussed enough. If it was a former official of the last admin, I get half credit. I posted a long time ago (will have to do a search later) that said it was someone from the left that did it. My assertion at that time was HRC :D

Seems like one lie was "Tim Russert told me". I believe he had a few other "explanations" that didn't hold water.

But you're right the Special Prosecutor didn't start looking at Libbey because he was a liar. Unlike Ken Starr whose $40 million plus investigation was focused on a blue dress from day one.

"Scooter Didn't Do It?"
.
.
Are you saying that he didn't lie under oath ??????????
That's what he's charged with.........................
1st....2nd.......What's the dif ? If he's second, it's still treason.

Seems like one lie was "Tim Russert told me". I believe he had a few other "explanations" that didn't hold water.

But you're right the Special Prosecutor didn't start looking at Libbey because he was a liar. Unlike Ken Starr whose $40 million plus investigation was focused on a blue dress from day one.

No, Ken Starr was investigating a land deal in Arkansas in which most of the participants did some time for their involvment. The blue dress came out along with a long history of harrasment charges and one very old allegation of rape. The blue dress and it's DNA evidence trumped the finger wagging public denial, and the under oath assertion of innocence. Should have just said he was drunk in the case of Monica, perfectly believable, that.

Woodward's statement clearly refers to "three current or former Bush administration officials."

"Scooter Didn't Do It?"
.
.
Are you saying that he didn't lie under oath ??????????
That's what he's charged with.........................
1st....2nd.......What's the dif ? If he's second, it's still treason.

The lie is about a memory lapse. There is one of those involved with the Woodward situation as well. Seems to be a common failing, happens to me all the time. In a very public statement, the Prosecutor based his case on the actual outing of this double naught agent and the fact that Libby was at the top of the chain, THE source of the leaked incormation. Turns out it ain't so.

They perversely take solace that Scooter wasn't acting alone, but was apparently part of a long line of GWB administrations officials whispering her name into reporters' ears. They applaud people who blew the cover of a CIA officer who was a specialist in nonconventional weapons in retribution for her husband publically stating his views.

"The lie is about a memory lapse"
Don't make me laugh so hard that things squirt out of my nose.
Libby, Rove, and Cheney don't have memory lapses unless they are planned. If george said that he had a memory lapse, I'd believe him.

"The lie is about a memory lapse"
Don't make me laugh so hard that things squirt out of my nose.
Libby, Rove, and Cheney don't have memory lapses unless they are planned. If george said that he had a memory lapse, I'd believe him.

Out your nose? That isn't where you pull most of the stuff you post from. ;)

Refresh my memory. $40 million plus dollars later did they ever find anything to charge Clinton with in this land deal? You know, the one he lost money on?

They perversely take solace that Scooter wasn't acting alone, but was apparently part of a long line of GWB administrations officials whispering her name into reporters' ears. They applaud people who blew the cover of a CIA officer who was a specialist in nonconventional weapons in retribution for her husband publically stating his views.

If it wasn't Libby then fine. I got my money on Rove.

are all bush apologists this stupid, or just the ones who post on this forum?

woodward's source(who raw story reveals as national security advisor steven hadley) revealed plame's identity in mid-june. this is a month before novak wrote his article outing plame, but roughly the same time period scooter was meeting with judy miller and giving her the lowdown on plame(june 23).

it is also just a week or so after bush's trip to africa, where the state department memo identifying valerie plame(and her status as secret) was passed around and discussed. and roughly the same time that scooter's notes reveal cheney saying that ari fleischer would soon launch an attack against wilson in the media.

all this does is confirm that the white house was engaged in a deliberate campaign to leak plame's identity to reporters. it does nothing to let scooter off the hook for his obstruction of justice and perjury charges, for it does nothing to change the false story he told the grand jury and the fbi. all it does is show that maybe scooter wasn't the first one to leak her name. just one of many.

thanks for playing boys.

Get out of Rush's hillbilly heroin stash!

GHWB: Joe Wilson is "a true American hero."

The lie is about a memory lapse. There is one of those involved with the Woodward situation as well. Seems to be a common failing, happens to me all the time. In a very public statement, the Prosecutor based his case on the actual outing of this double naught agent and the fact that Libby was at the top of the chain, THE source of the leaked incormation. Turns out it ain't so.

no, the prosecuter based his charges on the fact that scooter libby told a false story to the grand jury and the fbi. lied to them intentionally, and purposefully. woodward's claims change nothing of that.

are all bush apologists this stupid, or just the ones who post on this forum?

woodward's source(who raw story reveals as national security advisor steven hadley) revealed plame's identity in mid-june. this is a month before novak wrote his article outing plame, but roughly the same time period scooter was meeting with judy miller and giving her the lowdown on plame(june 23).

it is also just a week or so after bush's trip to africa, where the state department memo identifying valerie plame(and her status as secret) was passed around and discussed. and roughly the same time that scooter's notes reveal cheney saying that ari fleischer would soon launch an attack against wilson in the media.

all this does is confirm that the white house was engaged in a deliberate campaign to leak plame's identity to reporters. it does nothing to let scooter off the hook for his obstruction of justice and perjury charges, for it does nothing to change the false story he told the grand jury and the fbi. all it does is show that maybe scooter wasn't the first one to leak her name. just one of many.

thanks for playing boys.

While stupid may or may not be applicable, I am incensed that you call me an "apologist." That is a flat out libby lie, one of many. I am unapologetic at all times.

While stupid may or may not be applicable, I am incensed that you call me an "apologist." That is a flat out libby lie, one of many. I am unapologetic at all times.


but somehow you inferred i was talking about you. :confused:

but somehow you inferred i was talking about you. :confused:

Probably on acount of you posted it under one of my posts? I ain'tt stupid, you know?

You're late to the game my rightsided friend. Read my post "Oops!" But I guess this can't be discussed enough. If it was a former official of the last admin, I get half credit. I posted a long time ago (will have to do a search later) that said it was someone from the left that did it. My assertion at that time was HRC :D

Oh, was that from something Ryan your 15 yr old hero wrote? LOL!

The SP said Libby was the initial source, the first. That he exposed an otherwise secret operative (not so) and that is what drives his prosecution of Libby. She was not covert and it was already known she worked for the CIA. The lie Libby told was that he couldn't remember. Woodward says he told a guy that doesn't remember that either. I'm askeered. There's lots of things I can't remember on a daily basis, like "what did I come in here for." I hope that doesn't "leak" out.

actually, here's the quote from fitzgerald's news conference:

"Mr. Libby was the first government official known to have told a reporter" about Ambassador Joe Wilson’s wife.

guess now we know otherwise, don't we? at least four different administration officials, speaking to at least five different reporters, and all casually mention out of the blue that wilson's wife valerie plame worked at the CIA. how conveeeeenient.

oops! time for some new talking points. maybe steam can help you.

oh, and snake, no worries about woodward going to jail. he already testified to fitzpatrick. so much for his big words earlier this year about how he's go to jail if he was in judy miller's shoes also. but when it came right down to it, he sang just like novak did.

It might be Cheney...


'NY Times' Wonders If Cheney Is Key Woodward Source

By E&P Staff

Published: November 16, 2005 11:20 PM ET

NEW YORK In an article for Thursday's New York Times, reporter Todd Purdum, through the process of elimination, leaves Vice President Cheney still standing as a high ranking Bush administration official who has not denied being Bob Woodward's newly revealed key source in the Plame/CIA leak case.

Woodward provided sworn testimony to the federal grand jury on Monday, but said the source that mentioned Valerie Plame's CIA job to him in mid-June 2003 had still not authorized him to disclose his or her name. This "set off a frantic new round of guessing about who that source might be and a wave of public denials by spokesmen for possible suspects," Purdum observes.

<!--startclickprintexclude--><!-- begin ad //--><SCRIPT language=JavaScript>CM8ShowAd("Middle");</SCRIPT><!-- end generated ad //-->
<!--endclickprintexclude-->Then he ticks them off: "A senior administration official said that neither President Bush himself, nor his chief of staff, Andrew H. Card Jr., nor his counselor, Dan Bartlett, was Mr. Woodward's source. So did spokesmen for former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, former C.I.A. Director George J. Tenet and his deputy John E. McLaughlin.

"A lawyer for Karl Rove, the deputy White House chief of staff who has acknowledged conversations with reporters about the case and remains under investigation, said Mr. Rove was not Mr. Woodward's source.

"Vice President Cheney did not join the parade of denials. A spokeswoman said he would have no comment on an ongoing investigation. Several other officials could not be reached for comment."

Other "informed" speculation centers on Stephen Hadley.

Purdum pointed out that an enduring mystery of the case remains: WHO was Robert Novak's source for the Plame leak?

it's still early, when do we get to hear the new repub talking points of the day? the wunderkind hasn't got home from school yet? :D

he seems to be a w apologist

He wrote a book about GWB and Iraq, and it is very interesting, but he's no apologist. Unless anyone who does not display vitriol towards the President is an "apologist". Nonetheless, Woodward said he receieved the information from a "former" governement official. At the time he received it, both Rove and Libby were collecting government paychecks, making them "current" government employees. This seems to put a small hole, like the size of an aircraft carrier, into the prosecution's case. This will be interesting.

I wonder how long it will take for Fitzgerald to apologize for misleading the American people into prosecuting this case based on false information.

He wrote a book about GWB and Iraq, and it is very interesting, but he's no apologist. Unless anyone who does not display vitriol towards the President is an "apologist". Nonetheless, Woodward said he receieved the information from a "former" governement official. At the time he received it, both Rove and Libby were collecting government paychecks, making them "current" government employees. This seems to put a small hole, like the size of an aircraft carrier, into the prosecution's case. This will be interesting.

I wonder how long it will take for Fitzgerald to apologize for misleading the American people into prosecuting this case based on false information.
Don't you have grizzly bears to murder? :D

Not sure what hole you are talking about (it doesn't mean libby didn't lie). Especially since Fitzpatrick was the one that knew what Woodward had told him...before he told the Washington Post...and then us.

"former"? i thought he said "senior". care to quote the actual text?

Don't you have grizzly bears to murder? :D

Not sure what hole you are talking about (it doesn't mean libby didn't lie). Especially since Fitzpatrick was the one that knew what Woodward had told him...before he told the Washington Post...and then us.

I am a believer in the dyslexic Second Amendment - That the Constitution guarantees a right to arm bears. But griz don't need guns. Ever see a griz track? I was bow hunting for elk a long time ago in the Spanish Peaks near Bozeman, MT. My friends and I were armed with primitive weapons with the exception of a .357 full of bird shot (grouse season). We stepped out of the truck and right there was a griz track bigger than my boot. I looked at the track, looked at my bow and arrow and wondered how fast that arrow would take down an 800 pound charging, really pissed off predator getting ready for hibernation. Then I remembered the cardinal rule of safety in griz country: you don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than your partner. That day I hung with the slowest member of our group.

Please admit it - the case against Libby is specious. Bringing him up on perjury charges because his account of who he told what is different than Tim Russerts (which, in a nutshell is what this is about) is balderdash. Then Woodward, a very credible source, pipes up and says he knew about it before Libby did, but he can't remember all the details eithe BECAUSE IT WAS NO BIG DEAL!!!! Everybody knew the Plame/CIA connection and that it was all Washington gossip, therefore not important enough to store in Woody's internal hard drive. That was Novaks deal, too - it wasn't a scoop because it was so widely known. So Libby is being persecuted - errr, prosecuted - for having a bad memory and for being first on the list when he wasn't even second!

I stand by my earlier offer to defend Libby pro bono, even though I'm not a lawyer. I'll bet now that this case gets dropped before it ever comes to trial.

I am a believer in the dyslexic Second Amendment - That the Constitution guarantees a right to arm bears. But griz don't need guns. Ever see a griz track? I was bow hunting for elk a long time ago in the Spanish Peaks near Bozeman, MT. My friends and I were armed with primitive weapons with the exception of a .357 full of bird shot (grouse season). We stepped out of the truck and right there was a griz track bigger than my boot. I looked at the track, looked at my bow and arrow and wondered how fast that arrow would take down an 800 pound charging, really pissed off predator getting ready for hibernation. Then I remembered the cardinal rule of safety in griz country: you don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than your partner. That day I hung with the slowest member of our group.

Please admit it - the case against Libby is specious. Bringing him up on perjury charges because his account of who he told what is different than Tim Russerts (which, in a nutshell is what this is about) is balderdash. Then Woodward, a very credible source, pipes up and says he knew about it before Libby did, but he can't remember all the details eithe BECAUSE IT WAS NO BIG DEAL!!!! Everybody knew the Plame/CIA connection and that it was all Washington gossip, therefore not important enough to store in Woody's internal hard drive. That was Novaks deal, too - it wasn't a scoop because it was so widely known. So Libby is being persecuted - errr, prosecuted - for having a bad memory and for being first on the list when he wasn't even second!

I stand by my earlier offer to defend Libby pro bono, even though I'm not a lawyer. I'll bet now that this case gets dropped before it ever comes to trial.I won't admit it anymore than I would admit that the case against Clinton was specious...perjury is perjury is perjury. If he is found guilty fine...if he is found innocent fine. But I will always follow the simple "black and white" paradigm of law over politicians.

No country can truely call itself free that is not governed by one set of law underwhich we all live...and that is why...some would say that we are not truely free.

/loves sitting on high moral ground (thought Clinton should be tried or should have resigned), kind of like how the 23 people who voted against the war must feel about now.
//thinks bears are about the most magnificent creatures to see in the wild...being bears.

I better go register this I think there's big money waiting. Funny how their defense of Scooter is "He wasn't the first". Like I said, points to a larger conspiracy and if you've been following Fitz at all he wants to tie this whole thing together into the corrupt little cabal that it is.

If the shoe were on the other foot, would the ardent defenders of this administration still be blindly defending the outing? Doubt it. A Dem Congress, a Dem Prez, an ambassador, called by the President's father "a real hero," writes a critical Op-Ed piece... Senior members of the Dem Prez buzz buzz buzz into reporters' ears that the wife of the ambassador is a CIA agent, instead of simply addressing the merits or failures of the ambassador's pov.

$60 million on a free-wheelin' leakin' prosecutor on a bunch of bs. Fitzgerald used his allotted time, runs a tight ship, spent less than 800K, and is one smart cookie.

from today's WP.

Randall D. Eliason, former head of the public corruption unit for the U.S. Attorney's Office in the District,said he doubts the Woodward account would have much effect on Libby's case, and dismissed such theories as "defense spin."
</NITF>
<NITF>"Libby was not charged with being the first to talk to a reporter, and that is not part of the indictment," he said. "Whether or not some other officials were talking to Woodward doesn't really tell us anything about the central issue in Libby's case: What was his state of mind and intent when he was talking to the FBI and testifying in the grand jury?" Eliason added: "What this does suggest, though, is that the investigation is still very active. Hard to see how that is good news for [White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl] Rove or for anyone else in the prosecutor's cross hairs."

Please admit it - the case against Libby is specious. Bringing him up on perjury charges because his account of who he told what is different than Tim Russerts (which, in a nutshell is what this is about) is balderdash. Then Woodward, a very credible source, pipes up and says he knew about it before Libby did, but he can't remember all the details eithe BECAUSE IT WAS NO BIG DEAL!!!! Everybody knew the Plame/CIA connection and that it was all Washington gossip, therefore not important enough to store in Woody's internal hard drive. That was Novaks deal, too - it wasn't a scoop because it was so widely known. So Libby is being persecuted - errr, prosecuted - for having a bad memory and for being first on the list when he wasn't even second!

I stand by my earlier offer to defend Libby pro bono, even though I'm not a lawyer. I'll bet now that this case gets dropped before it ever comes to trial.

you're the one who's making it specious, with your mis-statements(do i dare call them "lies"?)

libby's own notes confirm that it was dick cheney who told him of plame's identity. and yet, when he went before the fbi investigators and the grand jury, he did not reveal that to them. instead, he concocted out of whole cloth the phony story that he got her identity from russert. russert denies this. who you gonna believe, scooter's statements now, or his notes from the time?

yes, it's just a strange coincidence that four different administration officials are mentioning plame's identity in a "casual" manner with at least six different reporters, in the same short span of time. didn't mean a thing. just gossip.

If it wasn't Libby then fine. I got my money on Rove.
same...funny how quick Rove's lawyers were to say it wasn't Rove. When you think about it it makes sense. Libby gets fingered, but gets off because of Woodward's testimony and the real leaker Rove goes free.

our collective memory is as bad as theirs.
funny when Clinton was convicted Con leadership was all up in arms over 'lying under oath and obstructing justice" most the Clinton bashers were screaming the same thing on this board less than a year ago.
Now the shoes on the other foot and you try to minimize but lets look
Arkansas Real estate - Sexual Harassment - Lying about an extramarital affair

or

Outing a CIA Agent - Obstructing and Lying to Investigators about from where the outing comes

at least the obstruction and perjury here actually pertains to the original investigation

The Fitzgerald investigation shows that at least seven administration officials outside the CIA, including Cheney, Rove, Libby, and Ari Fleischer (who happened to resign just before the story broke), were chattering about Plame working at the CIA before Novak's column was published.

The SP said Libby was the initial source, the first. That he exposed an otherwise secret operative (not so) and that is what drives his prosecution of Libby. She was not covert and it was already known she worked for the CIA. The lie Libby told was that he couldn't remember. Woodward says he told a guy that doesn't remember that either. I'm askeered. There's lots of things I can't remember on a daily basis, like "what did I come in here for." I hope that doesn't "leak" out.


Get it straight. Fitz slyly left the door open to the possiblity that other's could have known before Libby. Get it straight. And as he thought, out comes Woodward. From what I understand, SINCE THE SP DECIDED TO KEEP THE INVESTIGATION GOING, Woodward felt that he'd eventually have to testify anyway. His notes and confidentiality was for a book, not the newspaper, so, feeling that he'd get called anyway, he offers up the testimony. Get it? I'm betting that there are others that may have known too. Oh and the fact that he knew about Plame and didn't think that it was a big deal was likely because it wasn't germain to his book. Get it?

BT

Joe Wilson's hot! :D

same...funny how quick Rove's lawyers were to say it wasn't Rove.

Not Rove? I wanna change my pick. I'm going for Bush!