Okay, this one is very basic, but it's been one of those weeks and the ol' brain is fried.

Is is possible to do a 3x lacing pattern on a 28-hole rim (rear), or is it necessary to do a 3x on the drive side and a 2x on the non-drive side? Something about the math just isn't seeming right...

Thanks in advance for the help during my "senior moment".

-T

I normally always do 3x both sides on a 28h rear. 2x on the non-drive side results in less tension on said side due to the slightly better bracing angle. The spoke line also leaves the hub at a slightly wider angle. It's only a very small negative, but outweighs the ~3 grams you'll save in my opinion.

Okay, this one is very basic, but it's been one of those weeks and the ol' brain is fried.

Is is possible to do a 3x lacing pattern on a 28-hole rim (rear), or is it necessary to do a 3x on the drive side and a 2x on the non-drive side? Something about the math just isn't seeming right...

Thanks in advance for the help during my "senior moment".

-T

On any wheel,divide the total spokes by 9, the result is the maximum # of crosses without the spoke bending over an adjacent spoke head.

I normally always do 3x both sides on a 28h rear. 2x on the non-drive side results in less tension on said side due to the slightly better bracing angle. The spoke line also leaves the hub at a slightly wider angle. It's only a very small negative, but outweighs the ~3 grams you'll save in my opinion.

Okay, not to sound entirely dense, but exactly how does 3x lacing work on a 28-spoke wheel? I gave it a shot following the Schraner book and was okay through the first three sets of seven spokes, but when I got to the second set of 7 outbound non-drive-side spokes the remaining holes were "off". Specifically, when I laced the spoke under the third spoke being crossed, the next spoke hole was already filled. In fact, the next two were filled, forcing me to run the spoke at an extremely sharp angle (and over the head of the adjacent spoke on the flange) to reach the next available hole on the rim. Doing this would mean that the lacing on the non-drive-side would definitely not match the drive-side spokes.

I triple-checked the whole lacing job to make sure that I had followed Schraner's instructions precisely, and I have yet to detect any mistakes in my work up to that point. Am I missing something, or am I correct in concluding that the math just doesn't work for 3x lacing on a 28-spoke wheel?

I am not a wheelbuilder. But, if you are building a 3x 28h wheel same both sides, and you are having a problem with the ND side...you're missing something ;-)

Keep having fun, sounds like you're ready for a do-over.

Okay, not to sound entirely dense, but exactly how does 3x lacing work on a 28-spoke wheel? I gave it a shot following the Schraner book and was okay through the first three sets of seven spokes, but when I got to the second set of 7 outbound non-drive-side spokes the remaining holes were "off". Specifically, when I laced the spoke under the third spoke being crossed, the next spoke hole was already filled. In fact, the next two were filled, forcing me to run the spoke at an extremely sharp angle (and over the head of the adjacent spoke on the flange) to reach the next available hole on the rim.

It's really hard to tell what you did, but either you have bad instructions or you didn't follow them correctly. A higher number of crosses gives a more tangential angle of the spoke to the hub flange, eventually getting to the point where the spoke actually goes over the head of a spoke in the flange. There's nothing about the spoke pattern that would cause the problem you describe. Spokes from one side of the hub should fill every other hole on that side of the rim, leaving every other hole empty for the spokes from the opposite side of the hub. Most rims have the spoke holes somewhat offset - half for one side and half for the other side. It sounds like somehow you were not doing this.

Caseysdad, are you mounting the spokes in every 4th hole in the rim by starting your count at the first hole next to the previous spoke? In other words there should be 3 rim holes between the spokes from the same flange side.

Afterward, the first spoke for the other side of the flange should start in the 8th hole from the other starting spoke, i.e., 6 holes are between the first and second starting spokes.

I hesitate to ask this, but it is a 28h hub, isn't it?

Three-cross works fine on a 28-hole wheel. I just built one a few days ago.

It sounds like you aren't twisting the hub sufficiently (or rim, depending on your perspective) as you cross the spokes. If you don't seat all the nipples fully, and twist the hub so that the angle of the spokes you've already installed is correct, it'll seem like you have to cross at a weird angle. It'll also look like the spoke isn't long enough, and you might think you have to do a two-cross. But once you get the first crossing spoke installed correctly, the remaining spokes should install easily.

The only difference between building a 28 hole 3 cross and a 32 hole 3 cross is it takes 4 fewer spokes and the spokes are shorter.

Al

Three-cross works fine on a 28-hole wheel. I just built one a few days ago.

It sounds like you aren't twisting the hub sufficiently (or rim, depending on your perspective) as you cross the spokes. If you don't seat all the nipples fully, and twist the hub so that the angle of the spokes you've already installed is correct, it'll seem like you have to cross at a weird angle. It'll also look like the spoke isn't long enough, and you might think you have to do a two-cross. But once you get the first crossing spoke installed correctly, the remaining spokes should install easily.

Turns out that's what the problem was - I hadn't rotated the hub fully prior to beginning the outbound spoke lacing. As suspected, dumb mistake on my part. Problem solved now and, aside from a slightly less than ideal amount of spoke overlap on the flanges, the wheels turned out great. Thanks to everyone for all of the feedback.

I hesitate to ask this, but it is a 28h hub, isn't it?
I had that happen once. Was shipped the wrong drilling and didn't notice until I was almost done lacing up the wheel. That sucked.