The Seattle Supergo store is selling Supergo branded Neuvation wheelsets for $100. I bought a pair direct from John a couple of months ago and thought I got an amazing deal at $169. They are comparable to Ksyium Elites. Pez did a review here: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=3386.

Are these wheels actually made by Neuvation? Or are they made by some generic Asian factory that also makes Neuvation?

They are sourced from Neuvation but be clear, they aren't Neuvations. The Neuvations use better hubs, bearings and spokes than the Supergo/Performance brands. Especially the new Neuvation stuff. That's straight from John's mouth...

??? I don't see that on their website.

Do you really think that Neuvation would really state that they produce another, inferior wheeset than their labeled stuff, for someone else? Think with your head for a minute?

I'm sure there are agreements in place that state that Supergo/Performance cannot dosclose who makes the wheels as well.

At this point, it's a nod, nod, wink, wink....

Do you really think that Neuvation would really state that they produce another, inferior wheeset than their labeled stuff, for someone else? Think with your head for a minute?

I'm sure there are agreements in place that state that Supergo/Performance cannot dosclose who makes the wheels as well.

At this point, it's a nod, nod, wink, wink....

Is that why when I called PB customer service, the lady said that they are made by the same manufacturer as Neuvation Wheels? :rolleyes: No nod, nod, wink, wink..
Except that they use different spokes and bearings with the PB Titans..

p.s. Hey Merckx56, I was wandering why you talk as if you are the s*** here on RBR?? :confused: just IMHO..I think that a lot of your posts can be interpreted as being sarcastic by some people. Do you know that you can re-structure your sentences or maybe use smilies like these: ;) :D , etc..?? Again, just IMHO and to the OP, sorry for the hijack. :D

I bought some of the Titans about a year ago and the box from Taiwan said from John Neugent Co.on the shipping info printed on the cardboard.They certainly are very similar if not exactly the same as the Neuvations.

Doh. Here I was hoping they'd be on the site so I could just order some. :(

given the many reports of the korsos/titans coming from the same factory it
should not be a surprise. what makes neuvation wheels different will
be how much quality control John Neugent is paying for and what materials
he's spec'ed. QC alone will make his wheelsets more valuable to many.
i believe i read someplace that his reject rate for raw materials is high,
meaning that rims and hubs that he might not want to warranty will end up
in a set of korsos or titans. that's not necessarily bad, just his QC standard
is that much higher.

if you check elsewhere, you will see mixed reviews for the titans(likely due
to the choice of spokes, chosen for weight and price) and decent reviews
for the korsos(which are a bit heavier, probably because the bladed
spokes are thicker and stronger than the ones used in the titans.)

for my budget, $99 korsos was too good a deal to pass on. in such a case,
you can do what i did, which is spend the remainder of the budget on things
like new pedals and tires, instead of getting _just_ a wheelset. i guess
re-lacing with high quality spokes will still end up less expensive than a set
of m28 aeros.

that said, when and if the korsos fail me, i'll have saved my pennies for
a nice custom wheelset(oddsandendos niobium 30, maybe with cx-rays)

remember, you do get what you pay for; if you buy $99 wheels - expect to
retrue within 1000miles, re-lace by 2k for safety

I have read alot reports that these wheels come from the same factory, but I can't confirm it. I do own a set of Korso, have a Titan rear wheel, and seen a Neuvation wheelset in person. From what I can tell the rim and hub shell of all three look identical.

While I haven't taken the hubs apart on the wheels I own, they do appear to use different spokes. The Titan spokes are a bit thicker and not nearly as bladed as the Korsos - which seems like it has the thickness of 1-2 postcards.

However, I wasn't very impressed with the Korso's finish. The spoke's paint job seems kinds shoddy and you can clearly see some bubble marks if you look up close. They don't seem to ride any different, so for $89 it ain't a bad deal. I'm a pretty light rider so I don't usually have too many issues with things going out of true, but I will definitely report on any problems with them as they arise.

I use my set for CX and road training. I've broken the rear spoke twice, the last time during the last lap of my last race of the season. That sucked.

For $85, they're a steel. If you don't beat them up, they'll last. That being said, I'm probably going to be ordering a set from Mike Garcia for my new road bike.

I picked up a set of the $90 Korso's a few weeks back when you could order them on line. I checked the spoke dimensions, and they are the same as the Neuvation's. Hubs appear to be the same as well. Put my spoke tension gauge on the wheels straight out of the box and everything looks fine; dirve side rear tension is particularly consistant so I don't buy the BS that these wheels have lower build quality specifications.

My guess is that John at Neuvation is buying the exact same wheels sans different decals. Maybe different people are building them up but that does not mean that the Korso's are crap like some people like to claim.

Is that why when I called PB customer service, the lady said that they are made by the same manufacturer as Neuvation Wheels? :rolleyes: No nod, nod, wink, wink..
Except that they use different spokes and bearings with the PB Titans..

p.s. Hey Merckx56, I was wandering why you talk as if you are the s*** here on RBR?? :confused: just IMHO..I think that a lot of your posts can be interpreted as being sarcastic by some people. Do you know that you can re-structure your sentences or maybe use smilies like these: ;) :D , etc..?? Again, just IMHO and to the OP, sorry for the hijack. :D

Did you actually read my initial post dumbass? The one where I stated that they use different spokes and bearings on Neuvations than on the Performance/Supergo stuff?
I asked John Neugent, the guy who owns Neuvation, and it's exactly where I got my info! I asked the question because I was ordering 3 sets and wanted to know the difference and why it was worth it to pay the extra cash.
Don't call someone out and then re-iterate their initial post.
Oh, and BTW, the CS staff at PB is a bunch of fat people who don't actually ride or have any industry knowledge...

Did you actually read my initial post dumbass?

You should chill out, man.

You should chill out, man.

Why should I chill out? Posters on this board love call someone on the carpet when they have no valid points to make or little knowledge of subject matter. I got my info straight from the horse's mouth and then someone else called BS.

When someone asks a questions, there is always a response that says, "I don't actually have the product, but I've heard/I've seen/my friend Larry said..."

I've had several sets of Neuvations myself, sold more and spoken to John at great length about wheels, cycling, and the industry. When someone tells me I'm talking sh*t about a topic and is flatly just WRONG, the error needs to be pointed out. In my two decades of being in the bike business in one form or another, I have acquired a very small amount of knowledge. Unfortunately, there are those, that because they actually own a bike and have ridden for 3 years,think they know everything.
I don't know everything, no one does. But in certain instances, when someone states they have first hand knowledge, everyone on this board should do three things...listen, asks pertinent questions, or S T F U !

This board never changes...

Why should I chill out?

Because you attacked someone who just asked a simple question.

Then you attacked someone who just mentioned -- in a friendly way -- that the people at Performance didn't even bother with the "nod, nod, wink, wink," calling him a dumbass for no good reason. You were wrong on that point (not that it's important), but for some reason you felt the need to call him a dumbass. There are ways to get your point across without being so hostile, and there are a lot of people on these boards that do just that.

But in certain instances, when someone states they have first hand knowledge, everyone on this board should do three things...listen, asks pertinent questions, or S T F U !

See above. Stihl did have first hand knowledge with Performance.... so I suggest you practice what you preach.

Because you attacked someone who just asked a simple question.

Then you attacked someone who just mentioned -- in a friendly way -- that the people at Performance didn't even bother with the "nod, nod, wink, wink," calling him a dumbass for no good reason. You were wrong on that point (not that it's important), but for some reason you felt the need to call him a dumbass. There are ways to get your point across without being so hostile, and there are a lot of people on these boards that do just that.



See above. Stihl did have first hand knowledge with Performance.... so I suggest you practice what you preach.

Maybe he's just having a bad day.. :confused:
I appreciate everyone in this forum especially the folks who regularly post (Kerry Irons, MB1, Dr. Hoo, etc..) I gain a fair amount of cycling knowledge whenever I log in and read these boards. I'm pretty sure that Merckx56 is knowledgeable as well. I just hope that this person is never like this in the real world..He can say whatever he wants in here, that's his choice..Again, let's just hope that he isn't like this outside the internet. Just IMHO.

I have read alot reports that these wheels come from the same factory, but I can't confirm it. I do own a set of Korso, have a Titan rear wheel, and seen a Neuvation wheelset in person. From what I can tell the rim and hub shell of all three look identical.

While I haven't taken the hubs apart on the wheels I own, they do appear to use different spokes. The Titan spokes are a bit thicker and not nearly as bladed as the Korsos - which seems like it has the thickness of 1-2 postcards.

However, I wasn't very impressed with the Korso's finish. The spoke's paint job seems kinds shoddy and you can clearly see some bubble marks if you look up close. They don't seem to ride any different, so for $89 it ain't a bad deal. I'm a pretty light rider so I don't usually have too many issues with things going out of true, but I will definitely report on any problems with them as they arise.
I have measured the spokes on the Titans and the Korsos with a caliper and they do differ.Titan spokes have a raised Z on the spoke head w/ 2.4mm round section diameter and a 3.2 mm bladed section width.Korso spokes have symbol resembling a P on the head with a 2.4mm round section and 4.3mm bladed section width.The finish on the Titan spokes is thicker lookig and more consistent.The machined area on the rim is smoother on the Titan.In conclusion,the spokes are likely the same weight on both wheels w/ the Korsos having wider and thinner blades since they both start out as 2.4mm wire stock.Anyone with Neuvation M28s like to measure their spokes and report the dimensions as well as the symbol on the spoke head?

Why should I chill out? Posters on this board love call someone on the carpet when they have no valid points to make or little knowledge of subject matter. I got my info straight from the horse's mouth and then someone else called BS.

why should anyone believe what you post? The cannondale thread about the giant bikes is an example--you stated your insider "facts" and then the HN team mechanic posted that you were full of s***. I highly doubt that the owner of Neuvation is going to give you any insider info.

why should anyone believe what you post? The cannondale thread about the giant bikes is an example--you stated your insider "facts" and then the HN team mechanic posted that you were full of s***. I highly doubt that the owner of Neuvation is going to give you any insider info.


So I guess you take some schmoe at his word that he's the HN team wrench then...

Gord rode an alu Giant...said it wasn't stiff. Last year Schmatz had the same complaint and rode a white alu Giant TT frame, that you couldn't even buy here, as his main crit bike. Hendy said it was okay but needed to be stiffer. Corbett has a bunch of alus hanging in his garage (more than the 4 that were claimed...).

For the second part, call John Neugent and ask him yourself. He's very open about his products.

Part trois, S T F U. You weren't even a party to any of this discussion... :rolleyes:

And yes, I'm like this in real life too. That's what's wrong with most people...they aren't like this and won't call a spade a spade. Too many people get pissy, shuffle away mumbling and then talk sh*t when no one is around. Got something to say? Say it or shut it. My friends, of which I have many, appreciate this because they always know where they stand. Very little grey around here...

Now, let's all move on from this inane, off topic post...as that's what I'm going to do...

My friends, of which I have many...

THAT'S probably the funniest thing I've read on this forum.

THAT'S probably the funniest thing I've read on this forum.

I agree. :eek:

Dude, you really should take it easy. This neuvation guy seems nothing more than a marketing of Asian made wheels anyway.

I still remember an unpleasant email exchange with you like 5 years ago when you were giving me trouble based on your industry insider information which ended up proven wrong.
Nobody is right 100% of the times, even with industry connections.

I'm amazed that a post about inexpensive wheels caused such a furor. What if I'd posted about Lightweights? FWIW, the pair I bought appear to be identical to my Neuvations. I haven't measured spoke tension or disassambled the hubs, but visually they are the same. I guess this falls under the heading of how wrong can you go? Both sets were bought as cheap utility wheels. They're cheap and their utilitarian.

Dude, you really should take it easy. This neuvation guy seems nothing more than a marketing of Asian made wheels anyway.

I still remember an unpleasant email exchange with you like 5 years ago when you were giving me trouble based on your industry insider information which ended up proven wrong.
Nobody is right 100% of the times, even with industry connections.


as John Neugent has personally provided me with the best customer service I've experienced in almost any industry, anywhere...he's sent me 3 front wheels for free after bearing defects and front spoke breakages after about 500 miles...wicked cheap crash replacements and nearly instantaneous email responses to questions....
try getting that from Zipp or Mavic...