I just got this magazine and it's very interesting.

http://www.the-american-interest.com/cms/sop.cfm

I'm on the first article the Protestant Declenation and how our Protestant division has caused polital correctness, even in the writing of the Constitution, our movement away from traditions and organizations, and how it's driven our country throughout our history in foreign policy and social beliefs. Arriving at our current state has moved us from a policy of American Creed (liberal democracy, written contracts, law) to Universal Human Rights and how that policy has been in place for whomever is the President.

It's all new to me so excuse my poor explanation. I'm still reading the first article, but it's eye opening. I think I'll subscirbe.

Is there a way to view the entire article without subscribing?

I'm considering how to subscribe. Typical or on line. THe only problem with on line is it's not as nice and I'd rather have the formal one to read and pass out.

I really like the magazine, at least in the first article I've read, because it really does talk like people on this board (knowledge wise) but with a balance that I appreciate. Meaning, they've taken the heat off the topic of right or wrong and just are stating facts.

Like since the FF's were of all sorts of Protestant persuasions, then their documents had to be inclusive and sort of speak to the lowest common demoninator (unitarian, e.g Supreme Being, Divine Authority, etc.) rather than Jesus.

Said things like FDR and Woodrow Wilson may have been thinking of God, but not Jesus, when saying they acting or speaking, etc. Interesting and now makes things more understandable.

I'd like, as I've stated before, to grow in my global understanding. I'm pretty limited, so this magazine should be a great education for me to consider.

I'm considering how to subscribe. Typical or on line. THe only problem with on line is it's not as nice and I'd rather have the formal one to read and pass out.

I really like the magazine, at least in the first article I've read, because it really does talk like people on this board (knowledge wise) but with a balance that I appreciate. Meaning, they've taken the heat off the topic of right or wrong and just are stating facts.

Like since the FF's were of all sorts of Protestant persuasions, then their documents had to be inclusive and sort of speak to the lowest common demoninator (unitarian, e.g Supreme Being, Divine Authority, etc.) rather than Jesus.

Said things like FDR and Woodrow Wilson may have been thinking of God, but not Jesus, when saying they acting or speaking, etc. Interesting and now makes things more understandable.

I'd like, as I've stated before, to grow in my global understanding. I'm pretty limited, so this magazine should be a great education for me to consider.Most of the FFs, were deists. They had Puritan/Calvanist roots but, by and large, the most influential Founders were all deists. There is a lot to be said about the role their beliefs played and how many of them believed in vituosity through industry.

A related topic, regarding trying to learn: Does that mean I can ignore the rich white men trying to oppress the women, indians and the poor US history take. Seriously, I got a CD about not knowing much about history and this guy Ken something, equated all of US history as the white man oppressing everyone.

Read some of the freedoms thread. Good thoughts from Snakebit. Sounds like a fair guy to me.

Wondering about what people think about the ACLU. Friend, foe, or opportunists for money?
Does it take rose colored glasses to view them as friends?

A related topic, regarding trying to learn: Does that mean I can ignore the rich white men trying to oppress the women, indians and the poor US history take. Seriously, I got a CD about not knowing much about history and this guy Ken something, equated all of US history as the white man oppressing everyone.

Read some of the freedoms thread. Good thoughts from Snakebit. Sounds like a fair guy to me.

Wondering about what people think about the ACLU. Friend, foe, or opportunists for money?
Does it take rose colored glasses to view them as friends?Regarding the FFs... I suggest you keep reading -- books, not blogs.

I'm indifferent about the ACLU. I would say that it would only take rose colored glasses to see them as a friend if your against the principles behind the Constitution and/or want to see America turned into something it wasn't meant to be.

Regarding the FFs... I suggest you keep reading -- books, not blogs.

I'm indifferent about the ACLU. I would say that it would only take rose colored glasses to see them as a friend if your against the principles behind the Constitution and/or want to see America turned into something it wasn't meant to be.

The ACLU is a friend to everyone in the US. Simple as that. They protect our civil liberties, right, left, center, or fringe. Look how many times they have gone to court for the KKK or the skinheads, and then they are in there for liberal things as well. They take a very strict view of the Constitution I think. They defend everyone's rights. They are seen from the right as some boogeyman, mostly because there are a lot of things that the right want to do that they fight against, mostly because they are things that don't below in government. Prayer in school, ID, and things like that.

Wondering about what people think about the ACLU. Friend, foe, or opportunists for money?

I see the ACLU as a very conservative organization. They simply pursue cases which serve to defend the Bill of Rights. Period. Freedom is pretty meaningless if we are only free to parrot the majority point of view or only free to act in the manner that the majority believes is appropriate.

I think that it's funny they have acquired a reputation as arch liberals

Is that they are the most powerful terrorist organization in America.

They attempt to disarm the police and government from prudent activities to combat crime and terror.

They threaten suit against anyone (cash strapped cities, school districts, etc.) that oppose what they believe in.

Just my opinion.

Is that they are the most powerful terrorist organization in America.

They attempt to disarm the police and government from prudent activities to combat crime and terror.

They threaten suit against anyone (cash strapped cities, school districts, etc.) that oppose what they believe in.

Just my opinion.

Well, as long as you don't like the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, then I guess you wouldn't like the ACLU, because that's what they stand for. Name one thing that they have filed suit against that would cause harm to the US. I implore you, please...

I quote from their website:

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:

Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.

Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.

Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.

Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

Yep, those are some really bad people right there. Downright scary. Damn, we should close their shop.

Another quote from their website:

The ACLU was founded by Roger Baldwin, Crystal Eastman, Albert DeSilver and others in 1920. We are nonprofit and nonpartisan and have grown from a roomful of civil liberties activists to an organization of more than 400,000 members and supporters. We handle nearly 6,000 court cases annually from our offices in almost every state.

The ACLU has maintained the position that civil liberties must be respected, even in times of national emergency. The ACLU is supported by annual dues and contributions from its members, plus grants from private foundations and individuals. We do not receive any government funding. Learn more about joining the ACLU.

So what leads you to believe that there a bad organization again? Because they fight against religion in school and things like that? What is the basis of your opinion? Just wondering.

How about the "right" for muslims to wear their face coverings for their identification pictures. I'll start with those three.

Flag burning and protecting hate speech against our country by mosques. Look what that got London.

How about the "right" for muslims to wear their face coverings for their identification pictures. I'll start with those three.

Flag burning and protecting hate speech against our country by mosques. Look what that got London.

Well, the right to wear their headscarves has to do with religious freedom. Isn't that part of what this country was founded on? Not just Christian freedoms, but religious freedoms. Tell me one terrorist event that happened in this country that were perpetrated by women wearing muslim headscarves. That would be zero my friend, zero. Your basis for argument actually has no basis. Religious freedom. It's part of their religion, and if it were part of yours you'd be screaming out for it as well.

Flag burning is a protection of first amendment rights in the US. Sure it's disrespectful and I would never do it, but I wouldn't want to impinge on somebody else's rights to express their dismay with their country. When was the last time you actually saw a flag burned here in the US? I haven't heard of too many of those. Flag burning is a first amendment right, and it's not illegal, nor should it be.

Hate speech is protected as well.

These are things that we don't agree with for the most part, but they are protected freedoms of being in the US, and being US citizens.

Your arguments are to change the first amendment of the Constitution to better fit YOUR views, not other people's views.

So I ask again. Are you against the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? It appears so.

You've view of what America is and mine are different. I want a safe America, which entails interpreting the Constitution and Bill of Rights with some level of common sense.

Some religions call for child sacrifice. Are they free to practice in the US? Just wondering? Should they be in your mind, do tell.

There is a difference between prudence and stupidity. It's stupid to have identification materials where the one to be identified is wearing a fargin veil. I guess it's just clear to me.

How about the "right" for muslims to wear their face coverings for their identification pictures.

So how was that case ultimately decided? Do they get their day in court or does some government official just get to decide what's right for everybody?

I think the latter would be OK provided I was the guy who gets to make all of the decisions. I kind of think you might rather it was you who gets to decide. That's what the ACLU is all about. They bring cases that force an open discussion of the issues. Both sides take their best shot and a decision is reached on the merits. That's what made the United States what it is today.

Why do you hate America? Why do you want to turn it into some totalitarian state?

You've view of what America is and mine are different. I want a safe America, which entails interpreting the Constitution and Bill of Rights with some level of common sense.

Some religions call for child sacrifice. Are they free to practice in the US? Just wondering? Should they be in your mind, do tell.

There is a difference between prudence and stupidity. It's stupid to have identification materials where the one to be identified is wearing a fargin veil. I guess it's just clear to me.

OK, what religion are you talking about that sacrifices children? If you're talking about some Satanic cult or something like that, after watching a very in depth show about those cults and religions, it was found that nobody ever got sacrificed in the name of Satan at least in the US. How about a religion that kills people who are alleged to be witches? How about a religion that kills people based on their views? Yeah, we're talking about Christianity indeed. So me a case in the US where a kid was sacrificed for someone's religion. I doubt you'll find one. Because it's not there. And fortunately, we still have a freedom of religion in this country, so people can worship whatever they want to follow. If someone did sacrifice a person, then they are going to be held accountable for murder. That has nothing to do with religion. It's a far cry from someone wearing a religiously mandated scarf on their head. How about when you get your identification card made, they make you take off your cross around your neck (if you wear one). How would that make you feel? It's basically along the same lines.

That's just it, I'm not interpreting the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I'm reading what they're saying and applying the law as it is. It's not about "common sense" as you put it, it's about what is written in the document, I suggest that you go back and read it again, because you fail to see the point of it. What you're trying to tell me is that as long as people in the US follow what YOU see as being legal, then it's OK. Luckily, for the rest of us, that's not how it is. My view of America is that we have free speech, no matter how much I like or dislike what is being said. My view of America is that we have freedom of religion, once again whether I agree or disagree with it. My view of America is that we have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights that are followed and adhered to. I'm glad you're not running things, as we'd probably have a theorcratic state based on what you believe is right or wrong in a matter of no time at all.

I ask; why do you hate America and everything that it stands for? Why do you hate the Constitution and it's legally protected rights and laws?

Then I beleive that the ACLU would be a fine institution, HOWEVER funds are not infinite. In fact they are scarce.

Therefore, the ACLU knowing this to be true, litigates every little thing in every little case to over burden the city, school, etc. until finally the city, school, etc. simply decides it can't fight anymore.

America is about debate, but the ACLU is a terrorist group to cities and schools, not some friend of the people. Common sense says that if 100 people don't care about some 100 year old cross or memorial to soldiers, and one person is "offended", it's not really an issue worth spending a lot of time and money debating about.

The ACLU's view is, it's money to be had.....oh I mean.... this poor person is being harmed by the image and therefore it's unconstitutional, blah blah blah. They don't fight the big fights, they fight every and any fight for money.

Then I beleive that the ACLU would be a fine institution, HOWEVER funds are not infinite. In fact they are scarce.

Therefore, the ACLU knowing this to be true, litigates every little thing in every little case to over burden the city, school, etc. until finally the city, school, etc. simply decides it can't fight anymore.

America is about debate, but the ACLU is a terrorist group to cities and schools, not some friend of the people. Common sense says that if 100 people don't care about some 100 year old cross or memorial to soldiers, and one person is "offended", it's not really an issue worth spending a lot of time and money debating about.

The ACLU's view is, it's money to be had.....oh I mean.... this poor person is being harmed by the image and therefore it's unconstitutional, blah blah blah. They don't fight the big fights, they fight every and any fight for money.

You're changing your tune now. First it was they were a terorist group to the nation. Now to schools and cities? How so? Let's take a look at their case list:

OK, never mind, there are too many to list. I'd like to see you list cases where you think the ACLU has hurt cities and schools. Please, enlighten me.

These people do good work. They do some great work, and their funds are finite as well, they're not infinite. They are a non-profit group funded by people who believe in what they are doing. You are coming down on the side of the right in the arguments you are putting out here. It sounds a lot like parroting without a lot of information. I am betting that you are cherry picking what "information" that you have about the ACLU from talking heads and pundits who decry that they fight to keep prayers out of schools, ID out of the classroom, and other stuff like that. You have no idea the issues that they confront.

Here is one link that you might find interesting, what they have done in the name of religious liberty:

http://www.aclu.org/religion/tencomm/16254res20050302.html

I think you might be surprised on what side the ACLU comes down on in a lot of the cases cited in that link.

America is about debate, but the ACLU is a terrorist group to cities and schools, not some friend of the people. Common sense says that if 100 people don't care about some 100 year old cross or memorial to soldiers, and one person is "offended", it's not really an issue worth spending a lot of time and money debating about.

So at what point are a person's rights worth defending?

The reality is that economics are now a major reason for the radical changes in public policy. Everyone is scared to get sued. Look at trial lawyers (John Edwards channeling, amazing).

The society is in damage control and not moving toward making anything better. I think you actually believe the ACLU is an altruistic group and not out for money and power.

We all agree that some level of policing is necessary, but you think that we as a society haven't gone too far. Every person legally in this country, pays for every fargin action (it ain't free).

Of course, this discussion has no hope, which is why I'm wondering what's the point right now. I'm done. Feel free to donate to sierra club, ACLU, etc. all you want and they'll just sue everyone and we all will have to pay for it. It's not about freedom. The ACLU left that a long time ago, just like Jesse Jackson left MLK Jr.s idealism years ago. It's all about the money and power now and force the majority to conform to the lowest common denominator. You don't get greatness that way.

People wondered what happened to the Roman empire. They wondered how Russia could collapse. We are living America's collapse right now. Sure you'll get your wish that we are part of the global "euro" world, but that won't be better than what we have, had. Have fun trashing the moral and religous framework that powered this country to greatness. I'll be dead by the time it all happens, but it'll be sad.

By the way, did I mention that the Bible says it would happen. Revelation you know. Says the US and Russia would not be world powers, because it will be in Europe. People couldn't believe it would happen, but heck Israel became a nation again, Russia is gone, the US is next (I'm seeing it right now on this board).

I guess I can have joy knowing that the utlimate good team wins. The liberals are driving God's plan. Interesting. I'm done.

it's the religious right that has tied up the court. the court has ruled that the Mt. Soledad cross is a clear and present conflict with the sep of church and state for over 10 years. They just won't accept losing as they won't understand the basic constitutional issue presented. so they try numerous end arounds, the latest being the 'it's a war memorial' which is an affront to every non Christian who has given their life for this great nation.

just once try to put the shoe on the other foot. just imagine the US is say a Muslim State and you as a christian are forced to look at a big Islamic Moon and Star every frickin day and every time you want to go pay homage to those who served.

I don't think so, Flash.

Go back over your list of suits and let me know what percentage of them are praying for monitary damages. It looks like they're mostly requesting some kind of specific performance to me.

I too get to have joy knowing that the ultimate good team wins. I agree with you that the liberals are indeed the ones who driving God's plan.

The reality is that economics are now a major reason for the radical changes in public policy. Everyone is scared to get sued. Look at trial lawyers (John Edwards channeling, amazing).

The society is in damage control and not moving toward making anything better. I think you actually believe the ACLU is an altruistic group and not out for money and power.

We all agree that some level of policing is necessary, but you think that we as a society haven't gone too far. Every person legally in this country, pays for every fargin action (it ain't free).

Of course, this discussion has no hope, which is why I'm wondering what's the point right now. I'm done. Feel free to donate to sierra club, ACLU, etc. all you want and they'll just sue everyone and we all will have to pay for it. It's not about freedom. The ACLU left that a long time ago, just like Jesse Jackson left MLK Jr.s idealism years ago. It's all about the money and power now and force the majority to conform to the lowest common denominator. You don't get greatness that way.

People wondered what happened to the Roman empire. They wondered how Russia could collapse. We are living America's collapse right now. Sure you'll get your wish that we are part of the global "euro" world, but that won't be better than what we have, had. Have fun trashing the moral and religous framework that powered this country to greatness. I'll be dead by the time it all happens, but it'll be sad.

By the way, did I mention that the Bible says it would happen. Revelation you know. Says the US and Russia would not be world powers, because it will be in Europe. People couldn't believe it would happen, but heck Israel became a nation again, Russia is gone, the US is next (I'm seeing it right now on this board).

I guess I can have joy knowing that the utlimate good team wins. The liberals are driving God's plan. Interesting. I'm done.

You're wrong again my friend. The ACLU is a NGO not for profit organization. The lawyers that litigate cases for them are by and large volunteers, and they don't make money of of their efforts. They are supported by private and some corporate funding. They do not affiliate themselves with any political candidates, and don't support or decry one side or the other. Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. Read their website, and learn how they work. I think you would be surprised, pleasantly I might add, to who they have defended and about what. Trial lawyers have nothing to do with the ACLU, as generally trial lawyers litigate civil suits against corporations and do not argue points of constitutional law, for the most part. Trial lawyers ARE out for money, but they have nothing to do with the ACLU. I ask you to again read through their website, or are you so blinded from the truth that you don't want to actually accept it. The ACLU doesn't work for the majority, they work for whomever has their rights infringed upon. Sorry you don't see that they do good work. I just hope some day that your rights aren't impinged upon and you have to look for help with them.

If we are living America's collapse, then that has nothing to do with the ACLU but everything do with the man in the head office, meaning, the President of the US, as last I knew, he was the leader of this country, and not the ACLU (who once again doesn't support any political candidates ever). I don't think that you'll find anyone on here who wishes to be anything other than an American (at least the guys that are from America). You've got it pent up in your mind that there is this vast left wing liberal conspiracy to make us part of Europe, again. I can't recall anyone ever saying anything of that nature, now you're just making things up, and listening to talking points from bad talk radio show hosts again (Michael Savage anyone?).

Let me get this straight. In the Bible it says that the US wouldn't be a world power anymore? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That's laughable right there, since as we all know, the Bible was written or imagined long before there was ever any thought of the US, or Russia for that matter. What passages are you referring to now? Or are you getting your Biblical texts confused with Nostradamus again? How is anything on this board anything but pro American? Because we support the ACLU and our rights given to us by our Constitution and the Bill of Rights? I'm not understanding your reasoning for us wanting to protect the rights given to us by this very important document.