Looks like floyd and Lance have the same massuer- could this be a predeiction of who will win the tour....


"Chatting to Phonak masseur Freddy Viane at the start of stage five in Avignon this morning, Cyclingnews' Hedwig Kröner found out that the former masseur of Lance Armstrong is now Floyd Landis' exclusive physiotherapist. Viane revealed that he, like Jan Ullrich's personal masseur Birgit Krohme, could tell the level of form of his his protégé by the feel of his leg muscles.

"It does make a difference," said Viane, who has been doing the job for more than ten years. "With the experience, you can also tell the general class of a rider, and I can tell you that Landis has plenty of it! Plus, he has that special killer instinct true champions have." Coming from the one who accompanied Armstrong in six of his seven Tour de France victories, it was hard to argue."

"Ah, how nice of him to say that," laughed Landis when we spread the word to him. "But I don't know if that system [of comparing muscle structure] works! We'll see, I can't promise."

This will certainly help Landis, and help him to maximize effective muscular recovery and comfort, preserving his stamina and strength. Some think that Landis has "peaked too early" and will "explode" in July. I disagree, since besides having a superb supporting team/coach, he has a superb masseur!(and X6 years TDF experience with Lance!)Looks like floyd and Lance have the same massuer- could this be a predeiction of who will win the tour....


"Chatting to Phonak masseur Freddy Viane at the start of stage five in Avignon this morning, Cyclingnews' Hedwig Kröner found out that the former masseur of Lance Armstrong is now Floyd Landis' exclusive physiotherapist. Viane revealed that he, like Jan Ullrich's personal masseur Birgit Krohme, could tell the level of form of his his protégé by the feel of his leg muscles.

"It does make a difference," said Viane, who has been doing the job for more than ten years. "With the experience, you can also tell the general class of a rider, and I can tell you that Landis has plenty of it! Plus, he has that special killer instinct true champions have." Coming from the one who accompanied Armstrong in six of his seven Tour de France victories, it was hard to argue."

"Ah, how nice of him to say that," laughed Landis when we spread the word to him. "But I don't know if that system [of comparing muscle structure] works! We'll see, I can't promise."

Hopefully he will be able to peak again in July.

Some think that Landis has "peaked too early" and will "explode" in July. I disagree, since besides having a superb supporting team/coach, he has a superb masseur!(and X6 years TDF experience with Lance!)

That's what folks said about Mayo a couple of years ago. And then he exploded in July, fell off his bike when the race hit the cobbles, and really hasn't been heard from since for the most part.

Landis has experience of riding support in le Tour, and riding as co-leader for one year.

Having a good masseur is nice and all, but it ain't gonna win you the Tour. What wins you the Tour is training.

Landis is walking the edge of the knife a little too early in 2006, although he has time to come down, and then build back up. If you see him at the front of another race before say, the Dauphine, he'll flail in July most likely, but I think he's smarter than that. He's still not going to win in France this year, but methinks he'll give it the old Mennonite try.

Mayo peaked a month too early - DL .

Floyd's 'peak' is 4 months before the Tour - PN.

I wouldn't put them in the same category.


That's what folks said about Mayo a couple of years ago. And then he exploded in July, fell off his bike when the race hit the cobbles, and really hasn't been heard from since for the most part

Here's my connection:

I saw a tour of Floyd Landis' house in 04 and it was filled with Lance Armstrong posters. He adored the man.

In 05 Lance treated Floyd like dirt. Lance did everything in his power to humiliate Floyd and minimize his success.
- he mocked Floyd after passing him at the finish in Tour de Georgia.
- he made sure he and his Team chased down any Floyd moves in the Euro tours.

He did this since Floyd left Discovery and was not loyal. For these actions, I'm really disappointed at Lance. That is what I remember him for, just an ill-tempered punk. I think that will change and I'll grow to respect the legend again.

francois

Cycling sports racing strategies, with its myriad psychological "games", can be perceived as vicious and without compassion. I also remember Lance as a nurturing team leader. Remember when that young rookie faulted in the TTT a couple of years ago (the 6th?), and Lance reached out and hugged him in a tender brotherly manner? I believe that it takes too much energy to conceive, plan and implement a wicked plan like you perceived, and that Lance has enough common sense and experience to steer away from such detrimental tactics.

I also remember Lance as a nurturing team leader.

Get real. Armstrong was always a jerk and his success didn't bring humility or mellowness, it just made him an even bigger ass. He got mad at Landis because Landis told the truth about Armstrong's relationship with the other team members; and it wasn't the tender, loving, nurturing team leader that you seem to imagine. For the crime of revealing that there was no sense of comradarie betweem Armstrong and the rest of the team, he got put on Armstrong's enemies list. Nice way to treat a guy who spent three years helping you win the Tour.

Wasn't it Landis who once said that Armstrong was the most unhappy person he ever met?

I disagree. Oh well, to each its own!

Landis is walking the edge of the knife a little too early in 2006, although he has time to come down, and then build back up. If you see him at the front of another race before say, the Dauphine, he'll flail in July most likely, but I think he's smarter than that. He's still not going to win in France this year, but methinks he'll give it the old Mennonite try.

What have we seen Floyd do that suggests he is peaking?Before someone tries to be smart and point out the obvious that he has won two races lets think about that.

He won the TOC by basically winning an ITT then keeping near the front in the mountains.

He won PN by throwing down one day in the mountains.I mean,he is riding great and looks good.However,He didn't win a single stage at PN and it isn't like he went out there and mage HUGE efforts every day of the TOC and PN.

Do I think he is going win the TDF?I never speculate that kind of stuff.However,I wouldn't be suprised if he did really well and I will go as far as to say he won't be another Mayo falling to pieces when the sh*t hits the fan.

Here's my connection:

I saw a tour of Floyd Landis' house in 04 and it was filled with Lance Armstrong posters. He adored the man.

In 05 Lance treated Floyd like dirt. Lance did everything in his power to humiliate Floyd and minimize his success.
- he mocked Floyd after passing him at the finish in Tour de Georgia.
- he made sure he and his Team chased down in Floyd moves in the Euro tours.

He did this since Floyd left Discovery and was not loyal. For these actions, I'm really disappointed at Lance. That is what I remember him for, just an ill-tempered punk. I think that will change and I'll grow to respect the legend again.

francois

Don't forget just how much Floyd mouthed off/talked trash BEFORE most of that happened. I'm not saying what Lance did to Floyd was justified but Floyd did plenty of talking in the press to warrant the patron flexing some muscle. Also...pick a sport and find the elite...for example, Jordan...you ever see anyone that talked trash to Jordan that wasn't put in place with extreme prejudice ON the court. It's not very different. Point being if you're gonna talk it up you'd better be prepared to back it up.

Don't forget just how much Floyd mouthed off/talked trash BEFORE most of that happened. I'm not saying what Lance did to Floyd was justified but Floyd did plenty of talking in the press to warrant the patron flexing some muscle. Also...pick a sport and find the elite...for example, Jordan...you ever see anyone that talked trash to Jordan that wasn't put in place with extreme prejudice ON the court. It's not very different. Point being if you're gonna talk it up you'd better be prepared to back it up.

Well said chuckice. I guess it comes down to whether you like the man (Armstrong) or not.
I don't.
You do.

Don't forget just how much Floyd mouthed off/talked trash BEFORE most of that happened.

I call B.S. Quotes and links, please.

I want to see them because I never came across anything that could be considered trash talk by Floyd. Ditto for the "mouthing off". In all the interviews by Floyd that I've read, he has been honest about his situation and very hesitant to predict how he will do, especially the interviews he gave last year where he always said that he did not know how he would perform as team leader because he had never been in that situation before.

I call B.S. Quotes and links, please.

I want to see them because I never came across anything that could be considered trash talk by Floyd. Ditto for the "mouthing off". In all the interviews by Floyd that I've read, he has been honest about his situation and very hesitant to predict how he will do, especially the interviews he gave last year where he always said that he did not know how he would perform as team leader because he had never been in that situation before.

Do your own homework. :rolleyes: Go back and read just about every interview with Floyd the past year...I totally agree, he's pretty humble but he's also very honest and straight forward about what he thinks when it comes to Lance/Discovery. This has been going on between the two of them since the day he signed with Phonak to race for Tyler. It's a common scene...Floyd talks openly and Lance tries to diplomatically talk around the subject until they hit the peloton together and then he lets the bike talk trash for him. It's very petty but petty on BOTH of their parts. This is how athletes settle this crap tho because you never read about the ones that settle it like men in private...that's not a story. I don't particularly like either of them...I have more respect for Lance for his LAF efforts than anything else.

You have nothing. I have read Landis' interviews and I did not see the trash talk and "mouthing off" that you are alleging. Again, let's see it if you've got it. I won't be holding my breath.

This will certainly help Landis, and help him to maximize effective muscular recovery and comfort, preserving his stamina and strength. Some think that Landis has "peaked too early" and will "explode" in July. I disagree, since besides having a superb supporting team/coach, he has a superb masseur!(and X6 years TDF experience with Lance!)

The team is looking for a new main sponsor for next year to replace Phonak, so they need results right now. Landis performed in a big way, winning three big races early, which helps tremendously with sponsor. Now he can turn the task over to the classics guys and get back to training for a peak in July. This is a business, after all.

Most people who have very high drive and success in their fields tend to have strong feelings and ideas about topics close to them. Lance and his team members. Trump and his money. Bonds and his privacy. etc. It's part of what makes them so good. We expect them to be honest and unrelenting in their racing, work and training, but not in what they think or say. That is unrealistic and unfair. Champions say "mean" things all the time. Big deal. To them, it's just another interview.


towerscum

You have nothing. I have read Landis' interviews and I did not see the trash talk and "mouthing off" that you are alleging. Again, let's see it if you've got it. I won't be holding my breath.

I was in France when they had a 2 page spread interview in the papers with Floyd after he flamed Lance after months of silly he-said/she-said press and in Cycle Sport and Pro Cycling. Am I supposed to go to my local trash heap for those rags for you? :rolleyes: Do your own homework and open your eyes...neither is innocent.

Most people who have very high drive and success in their fields tend to have strong feelings and ideas about topics close to them. Lance and his team members. Trump and his money. Bonds and his privacy. etc. It's part of what makes them so good. We expect them to be honest and unrelenting in their racing, work and training, but not in what they think or say. That is unrealistic and unfair. Champions say "mean" things all the time. Big deal. To them, it's just another interview.


towerscum

I expect more. And I won't even go in to their drug use.

Barry Bonds... c'mon. He represents what is wrong with Pro sports.

Lance. We're not talking about his interviews. His behavior during some races was inane.

Donald Trump. He keeps trading up for hottie wives. Wait... he's ok!!

francois

Do your own homework and open your eyes...neither is innocent.

>Don't forget just how much Floyd mouthed off/talked trash BEFORE most of that happened.

This is what you said. You should back it up and stop saying 'Do Your Homework'. He has done his homework and believes you have nothing.

Me too. When Lance mocked Landis on the hilltop finish of Tour de Georgia. 'na, na, na, na, you lost the race' while pointing to the clock, there were zero negative words from Landis before that. Zero!

francois

>Don't forget just how much Floyd mouthed off/talked trash BEFORE most of that happened.

This is what you said. You should back it up and stop saying 'Do Your Homework'. He has done his homework and believes you have nothing.

Me too. When Lance mocked Landis on the hilltop finish of Tour de Georgia. 'na, na, na, na, you lost the race' while pointing to the clock, there were zero negative words from Landis before that. Zero!

francois

Actually that's not true at all...it was in the GA papers THAT AM!!!

Edit: Interesting now that I think of it that I don't recall any verbal jabs before that between them...I honestly don't recall. Interesting...either way...if Lance did rub Floyd's face in that...so what?! They're pro athletes and it happens in every sport all the time! It's called trash talk...big deal. :rolleyes: Like I said...I don't particularly like either of them and neither is "innocent" in their petty war.

>Don't forget just how much Floyd mouthed off/talked trash BEFORE most of that happened.

This is what you said. You should back it up and stop saying 'Do Your Homework'. He has done his homework and believes you have nothing.

Me too. When Lance mocked Landis on the hilltop finish of Tour de Georgia. 'na, na, na, na, you lost the race' while pointing to the clock, there were zero negative words from Landis before that. Zero!

francois

Starting from the opening PC Floyd was heavy with the jokes and snide comments. Lance had his PC announcing retirement right AFTER the opening PC which was attended by Floyd, Bobby, Gord Frasier, Levi and matbe a few more. Anyway, it was a snoozer and then Floyd starts joking about how nobody on the stage was the future of American cycling because the guy backstage "was going to be around forever" .

After he won the time trial in Rome he mouthed "Discover This" on his way to the Podie presentation. All said and done all the stuff he doing was funny and made me laugh but all the American public really caught at the TdG was the Lance taunt which indeed was childish. Fwiw these weren't things I read about but things that were witnessed as I was there covering.

Starting from the opening PC Floyd was heavy with the jokes and snide comments. Lance had his PC announcing retirement right AFTER the opening PC which was attended by Floyd, Bobby, Gord Frasier, Levi and matbe a few more. Anyway, it was a snoozer and then Floyd starts joking about how nobody on the stage was the future of American cycling because the guy backstage "was going to be around forever" .

After he won the time trial in Rome he mouthed "Discover This" on his way to the Podie presentation. All said and done all the stuff he doing was funny and made me laugh but all the American public really caught at the TdG was the Lance taunt which indeed was childish. Fwiw these weren't things I read about but things that were witnessed as I was there covering.

That's exactly what broke/became public in the papers on the Brasstown stage. I was there, standing around for 12 hours talking about it with random people on the side of the road freezing our tails off...

Actually I think that Freddy was a "soigneur" not a masseur. He was in "Road to Paris" the Nike-film of team USPS early season and Tour prep 2001 and he joined Phonak with Floyd. At Phonak he's become much more than just a soigneur.

Lance's masseur is/was a guy from Poland (see Lance Chronicles in 2004).

Reading through your posts you need to figure that Bruyneel did not believe Floyd in 2004 at Alpe d'Huez when he claimed that Floyd did go "full out" in the TT. (See "Lance Armstrong's War) and things started to get sour from then on.

Floyd might just be the next American to pull out a big win in any of the 3 big tours.

Go Mennonite!

:D

Actually I think that Freddy was a "soigneur" not a masseur. He was in "Road to Paris" the Nike-film of team USPS early season and Tour prep 2001 and he joined Phonak with Floyd. At Phonak he's become much more than just a soigneur.

Lance's masseur is/was a guy from Poland (see Lance Chronicles in 2004).

Reading through your posts you need to figure that Bruyneel did not believe Floyd in 2004 at Alpe d'Huez when he claimed that Floyd did go "full out" in the TT. (See "Lance Armstrong's War) and things started to get sour from then on.

Floyd might just be the next American to pull out a big win in any of the 3 big tours.

Go Mennonite!

:D

Ryszard K. is the guy your thinking of that worked on Lance but it wasn't 100% exclusive as he also used others. One of the team soigneurs ended up working as Lance's assistant while he was away from the team and would handle the massage duties and more.

Freddy does do massage or did at some point. I don't know if he still sells it but he even has his own line of products called Freddy's Choice. Depending on the team the term Masseur and Soigneur are interchangable--for instance in old USPS media guides they are all listed as Masseurs and not Soigneurs.

A friend in Floyds camp eluded to deeper issues than Dan wrote about in "Lance's War" that caused the split. I would even tend to think ADH TT was just the icing on the cake after the mind f*ck that Johan/Lance pulled in the months leading into the race over whether Floyd was on the TdF Squad or not. The first cut of the book was even more revealing but apparently the publisher didn't want to risk book sales being lost because it could be interpreted as another "Anti-Lance" book. I'd like to have a read of that draft....

...

A friend in Floyds camp eluded to deeper issues than Dan wrote about in "Lance's War" that caused the split. I would even tend to think ADH TT was just the icing on the cake after the mind f*ck that Johan/Lance pulled in the months leading into the race over whether Floyd was on the TdF Squad or not. The first cut of the book was even more revealing but apparently the publisher didn't want to risk book sales being lost because it could be interpreted as another "Anti-Lance" book. I'd like to have a read of that draft....

Interesting... I did not know that. That would be an interesting read.

On one side I still admire Lance for the attitude he had towards the entire circus. Do EVERYTHING to win... reminded me of another sports person a few decades back... Ty Cobb! Those who know Baseball will know what I am talking about.

However there is a slight difference... Nowadays people are in a position to emulate the "Lance Blueprint" for winning. T-Mobile, CSC and al. could do it but have failed to even try in the last few years.

On the other side I am also looking forward to the Post-Lance area and Floyd is definately in my group of possible heirs to the crown. I even admire the steed he's riding... Boy BMC are a bunch of sickos for producing such beautiful material :D

Floyd in Paris_Nice was great... Looking forward to the Giro !!!!

Floyd's War is coming !

...

A friend in Floyds camp eluded to deeper issues than Dan wrote about in "Lance's War" that caused the split. I would even tend to think ADH TT was just the icing on the cake after the mind f*ck that Johan/Lance pulled in the months leading into the race over whether Floyd was on the TdF Squad or not. The first cut of the book was even more revealing but apparently the publisher didn't want to risk book sales being lost because it could be interpreted as another "Anti-Lance" book. I'd like to have a read of that draft....

Interesting... I did not know that. That would be an interesting read.

On one side I still admire Lance for the attitude he had towards the entire circus. Do EVERYTHING to win... reminded me of another sports person a few decades back... Ty Cobb! Those who know Baseball will know what I am talking about.

However there is a slight difference... Nowadays people are in a position to emulate the "Lance Blueprint" for winning. T-Mobile, CSC and al. could do it but have failed to even try in the last few years.

On the other side I am also looking forward to the Post-Lance area and Floyd is definately in my group of possible heirs to the crown. I even admire the steed he's riding... Boy BMC are a bunch of sickos for producing such beautiful material :D

47271

Floyd in Paris_Nice was great... Looking forward to the Giro !!!!

Floyd's War is coming !

The Armstrong comparison that is most apt is Michael Jordan-- very similar in many ways. Armstrong thrives on perceived slights, and had a history of taking losses of certain team riders personally (see Kevin Livingston).

Given the amount of work Discovery/Postal spent nuturing Landis, and turning him into a real professional racer, and given the not unfounded suspisions that Floyd was riding outside of team orders in the last TdF with an eye towards cashing in on a new team (something NONE of the previous 5 time winners teams would stand either-- the Eddy or the Badger would have done MUCH worse to him), some hard feelings were bound to happen. And in the fact that Floyd was obviously starting to chafe under under his non-leadership role, and was reaching the age where he needed to prove himself as a leader- and he wasn't doing a very good job of hiding it. And on top of that, how Landis through his attorney effected his departure (not a high point for Floyd's character IMHO)- and some ill will was natural.

So a natural rivalry and some garden variety competitive one-upsmanship occurred. B.F.D. By all accounts the parties not only buried this hatchet a while ago-- Discovery (and Lance) actively tried to recruit him back as a team leader this winter prior to Landis re-signing with Phonak (who is having sponsorship woes now). Honestly, Landis should have (and may end up next year) on a higher caliber team then Phonak. TofC, and Paris-Nice are one thing- having a team that can control a major tour is another. Don't be surprised if when Phonak's sponsorship ends this year, that Landis moves on to a major squad as a TdF leader (think Ale-jet and the Fassa demise).