It seems some conservative members of congress want to kick all the illegal immigrants out and have the prison population pick fruits and such. Why am I not surprised Dana Rohrabacher is involved with this. :rolleyes:

'Let the prisoners pick the fruits'
House members condemn immigration bill

Thursday, March 30, 2006; Posted: 11:55 p.m. EST (04:55 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- House conservatives criticized President Bush, accused the Senate of fouling the air, said prisoners rather than illegal farm workers should pick America's crops and denounced the use of Mexican flags by protesters Thursday in a vehement attack on legislation to liberalize U.S. immigration laws.

"I say let the prisoners pick the fruits," said Rep. Dana Rohrabacher of California, one of more than a dozen Republicans who took turns condemning a Senate bill that offers an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants an opportunity for citizenship.

"Anybody that votes for an amnesty bill deserves to be branded with a scarlet letter 'A,'" said Rep. Steve King of Iowa, referring to a guest worker provision in the Senate measure.

Here's the article. (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/30/immigration.house.ap.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories)

It seems some conservative members of congress want to kick all the illegal immigrants out and have the prison population pick fruits and such. Why am I not surprised Dana Rohrabacher is involved with this. :rolleyes:

'Let the prisoners pick the fruits'
House members condemn immigration bill

Thursday, March 30, 2006; Posted: 11:55 p.m. EST (04:55 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- House conservatives criticized President Bush, accused the Senate of fouling the air, said prisoners rather than illegal farm workers should pick America's crops and denounced the use of Mexican flags by protesters Thursday in a vehement attack on legislation to liberalize U.S. immigration laws.

"I say let the prisoners pick the fruits," said Rep. Dana Rohrabacher of California, one of more than a dozen Republicans who took turns condemning a Senate bill that offers an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants an opportunity for citizenship.

"Anybody that votes for an amnesty bill deserves to be branded with a scarlet letter 'A,'" said Rep. Steve King of Iowa, referring to a guest worker provision in the Senate measure.

Here's the article. (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/30/immigration.house.ap.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories)


Well if the illegals are charge with a felony they won't just be sent back south of the boarder they'll be sent to prison. So we'll have illegals no longer picking fruit for a few bucks an hour but for three squares a day and a bunk in a cell. Didn't I predict something like this?

I think you said this before... but what will those $380 million detention centers be used for? This way, they tax the businesses that use the prison labor to pay for the detention housing and they get the benefit of extremely low cost labor. It's the Chinese prison labor business model. Don't be surprised to see them harvesting organs from the prison population, with the proceeds going to prison system. It's an untapped profit center.

Forgetting the immigration part of the equation.... why not use lower security prisoners for meanial jobs that no one else wants to do but still need to get done?

Too sensible.

Too sensible.

I figure that if you go about it right, you can use work in lieu of prison time and good performance could go towards reducing the length of the sentence. I'd figure it'd be better for someone to work, collect at least some wage and remain with their family than it would for them to stew in a prison cell.

Forgetting the immigration part of the equation.... why not use lower security prisoners for meanial jobs that no one else wants to do but still need to get done?

Lawyers?

Forgetting the immigration part of the equation.... why not use lower security prisoners for meanial jobs that no one else wants to do but still need to get done?

Bring back chain gangs!

Forgetting the immigration part of the equation.... why not use lower security prisoners for meanial jobs that no one else wants to do but still need to get done?

They used to do this in - the county jail prisoners would do all the landscape maintenance at County buildings. I'm not sure why it stopped. Now we have a landscape company the regularly kills all the plants.....

It seems some conservative members of congress want to kick all the illegal immigrants out and have the prison population pick fruits and such.

Stupidity reigns among the rankest right. This is just another one of their typical miscalculations, but what do you expect from a bunch of short-sighted flunkies who constantly make mistakes and then blame anyone but themselves, which just means they'll never learn their lessons, and they'll continue to make messes out of things.

In this case, they forget to include 'motivation' as a primary contributor to 'productivity'. Seems that motivation means nothing to them unless 'fear' is involved.

Now I get it...... in their twisted brains, their idea is to get the prisoners motivated by using fear tactics.....



Too sensible.

Bring back chain gangs!
In some cases, yes.

What I'm talking about though....

What is better for society on the whole: a penal system that places non-dangerous offenders into work programs that gives them some wage, albeit a very low one, and allows them to stay at home (say with a monitoring device) with their family OR just locking them up in a cell for x number of years to stew and be nothing more than a parasite away from their family and earning nothing at all?

To tie in with immigration, if you remove the jobs the illegals are coming here for they will probably stop coming in the numbers they are right now.

use prison labor. most of their scary low pay goes into Victims of Violent Crime funds. So if you lost teeth or something in an assault the V.V.C. fund will pay for it. (a good thing)
but it's clear this has been in the works (hence the already in motion constyruction deal)
heck Illegal alien labor isn't cheap enough. lets bust their chops with prison labor, heck lets arrest the illegals and then use them for way less. think of the savings we won't pass on to the consumer!!!

f'in sick, I told ya we were heading towards mexico.

if I was in prison, I'd rather be outside (probably in the sunshine) picking fruit than in a small cell. Wouldn't you?

even better plan once they round up and imprisonn all those traitorous libbies. huge slave work force, cranking out consumer goods at dirt cheap costs. welcome to the United States of China. it's the only way we can compete in the global market.

better ask ol' Dana how his pals in the Taliban are doing these days.

to combat cheap labor sources in China and Mexico, instead of creating tariffs and systems to keep our products competitive (forcing cleaner, safer,better paying jobs abroad) we have a Govt whose intention is tolower our labor and environmental standards to that of our 3rd world competitors.

nice.

to combat cheap labor sources in China and Mexico, instead of creating tariffs and systems to keep our products competitive (forcing cleaner, safer,better paying jobs abroad) we have a Govt whose intention is tolower our labor and environmental standards to that of our 3rd world competitors.

nice.

I agree with this. I don't mind paying a little more for things if that's what we get in return. Unfortunately, you and I both know that ain't going to happen.

they'd start being able to afford to buy some of our stuff. more work for Americans and an easing in the trade imbalance.
I'm a Trickle up guy and history is on my side.

not gonna happen in our corporatocracy. all the conductors on our train are losing their jobs (Union Busting) and being replaced by cheap inexperienced people. They were all *****ing, and then (as I know them) you all have been voting Republican right? They said 'yes' I said "welcome to your world".

There's something like 14 million illegal immigrants. If they want to kick everyone of them out then this goes beyond fruit picking. We're talking dishwashers, busboys, gardeners, etc. Can you imagine having an convict babysit your kids and cleaning house for you?

And I don't know about you guys but I'd be worried sick about undertipping the valet parking guy.

There's something like 14 million illegal immigrants. If they want to kick everyone of them out then this goes beyond fruit picking. We're talking dishwashers, busboys, gardeners, etc. Can you imagine having an convict babysit your kids and cleaning house for you?

And I don't know about you guys but I'd be worried sick about undertipping the valet parking guy.

There are a lot of people in prision right now for non-violent crimes. Obviously, you can't do it with all of them nor could you do it for certain tasks but I think it's absolutely doable for many things.

If out penal system is supposed to rehabilitate people (isn't that the liberal line of thought there?) then I think that end would be better served by giving them the chance to be productive in society but in a sh*t job that they don't ever want to do again.

if I was in prison, I'd rather be outside (probably in the sunshine) picking fruit than in a small cell. Wouldn't you?

Well you got it half right. However, do you really think the cons will be nearly as productive as the mexican who's motivated by a relatively attractive financial incentive?

Keep in mind that harvest time does not have very large windows to get things done. Quite often they are very small - hours, sometimes. Meaning the workforce has got to perform, and to perform you've got to be motivated to perform.

I don't think being outside in the sunshine is the kind of worker motivation that a grower would bank on. Do you?

I think you said this before... but what will those $380 million detention centers be used for? This way, they tax the businesses that use the prison labor to pay for the detention housing and they get the benefit of extremely low cost labor. It's the Chinese prison labor business model. Don't be surprised to see them harvesting organs from the prison population, with the proceeds going to prison system. It's an untapped profit center.


spyderman,

We may butt heads sometimes regarding how strong our opinions are about some things but I think we agree on this. Welcome to the ever growing American prison industrial complex.

...but what do I know? I'm an immoral atheist.

Forgetting the immigration part of the equation.... why not use lower security prisoners for meanial jobs that no one else wants to do but still need to get done?


Like the one where the honorable "Duke" will be watching TV and playing card? :)

Forgetting the immigration part of the equation.... why not use lower security prisoners for meanial jobs that no one else wants to do but still need to get done?


Many county jail systems in this country already do this.

I figure that if you go about it right, you can use work in lieu of prison time and good performance could go towards reducing the length of the sentence. I'd figure it'd be better for someone to work, collect at least some wage and remain with their family than it would for them to stew in a prison cell.


I can see the virtue of this point of view also. However, a huge proportion of those of the nonviolent convicts are in for drugs and don't think the large majority of those folks should be in there in the first place. Now for those white collar crooks... show them what calluses are.

They used to do this in - the county jail prisoners would do all the landscape maintenance at County buildings. I'm not sure why it stopped. Now we have a landscape company the regularly kills all the plants.....


Last time I noticed they still do this in Cook County, IL.

Seems like a no brainer, both populations are criminal.

use prison labor. most of their scary low pay goes into Victims of Violent Crime funds. So if you lost teeth or something in an assault the V.V.C. fund will pay for it. (a good thing)
but it's clear this has been in the works (hence the already in motion constyruction deal)
heck Illegal alien labor isn't cheap enough. lets bust their chops with prison labor, heck lets arrest the illegals and then use them for way less. think of the savings we won't pass on to the consumer!!!

f'in sick, I told ya we were heading towards mexico.


I agree.

to combat cheap labor sources in China and Mexico, instead of creating tariffs and systems to keep our products competitive (forcing cleaner, safer,better paying jobs abroad) we have a Govt whose intention is tolower our labor and environmental standards to that of our 3rd world competitors.

nice.


That's been the game plan for more than 20 years now. It seems to be going as planned.

they'd start being able to afford to buy some of our stuff. more work for Americans and an easing in the trade imbalance.
I'm a Trickle up guy and history is on my side.

not gonna happen in our corporatocracy. all the conductors on our train are losing their jobs (Union Busting) and being replaced by cheap inexperienced people. They were all *****ing, and then (as I know them) you all have been voting Republican right? They said 'yes' I said "welcome to your world".


corporatocracy or corporakleptocracy?

Bust their chops with prison labor? Isn't that what THEY are doing to organized labor in this country?

the garment industry
the construction industry.(framers, sheetrockers,landscapers)
hotel industry
golf courses
restaurants

If out penal system is supposed to rehabilitate people (isn't that the liberal line of thought there?) then I think that end would be better served by giving them the chance to be productive in society but in a sh*t job that they don't ever want to do again.

Aren't illegal immigrants already in that situation? Illegal Mexican immigrants already have sh*t job that they don't ever want to do again but they still get up everyday and do them. It seems all they want is a better opportunity to be productive. For themselves, for their family, for the employer, for their community, for America.

this is getting a bit thick. Can we really ascribe such nobility of purpose to all illegals? Why then, isn't their mother country working to retain them?

this is getting a bit thick. Can we really ascribe such nobility of purpose to all illegals? Why then, isn't their mother country working to retain them?


Someday we may ask the same question of this country.

Say you have a prison of 1000(which is probably a very small prison). You are probably not going to have all 1000 go pick fruit, but rather maybe 100 or 200. Selecting the best prisoners for the job will be tough (maybe based on good behaviour, etc). If that can be done successfully, I think they could be almost as effective, especially if they make some money, even if its a small amount. I think being outside, not in their cell is something that they could look forward to. I figure the less time they are locked inside their cell, the less pissed off they'll be when they get out.

Aren't illegal immigrants already in that situation? Illegal Mexican immigrants already have sh*t job that they don't ever want to do again but they still get up everyday and do them. It seems all they want is a better opportunity to be productive. For themselves, for their family, for the employer, for their community, for America.

Frankly, I don't care about anyone here illegally. I just don't. I'm very pro-immigration, just do it legally. I don't attribute noble motives to those here illegally. If they cared that much, they'd apply for citizenship.

I care more about our prisoner citizens than I do illegals (from any nation).

Yeah, and if this flood of illegals doesn't get controlled soon, that day may not be that far off.

I'm very pro-immigration, just do it legally.

and

If they cared that much, they'd apply for citizenship.

I agree with these parts of your sentiments so lets make it realistically possible to do so. Let's not pretend that even 10% of these people would have been granted legal residency and a US citizenship track if they had followed the system under the current policy. Under the current policies to say just come here legally pretty much means we don't want you here at all. No we can't let the entire population of Mexico in but I think the policies and the quotas need to be adjusted.

I agree with these parts of your sentiments so lets make it realistically possible to do so. Let's not pretend that even 10% of these people would have been granted legal residency and a US citizenship track if they had followed the system under the current policy. Under the current policies to say just come here legally pretty much means we don't want you here at all. No we can't let the entire population of Mexico in but I think the policies and the quotas need to be adjusted.

And I'm good with that. I think we should allow as many people in as the "market" can bear, so to speak.

I kinda went off on a tangent with the prison thing... I don't suggest it as a way to reduce the demand for illegals but I do think it could have a prominent, positive place in our society as we move forward away from the archaic penal system we have now.

I also agree that most people in prison on drug related charges, shouldn't be there in the first place.

For everyone or just for Mexican immigrants?

For everyone or just for Mexican immigrants?


I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure immigration policies and quotas are currently set by the nation of origin or the region. The fact we have different policies for Cubans and Haitians for instance would seem to indicate that at least to some extent.

most foreigners 2-4 years for immigration (Green Card) and Mexicans 8-10 I'd say yes.
Oh and BTW living in San Diego, there are all kinds of Mexicans (legal and Not) making decent livings at good jobs that they don't hate. many are lifers in good companies with very good jobs

most foreigners 2-4 years for immigration (Green Card) and Mexicans 8-10 I'd say yes.

Hell me and my folks got green cards in well under six months back in '68.


Oh and BTW living in San Diego, there are all kinds of Mexicans (legal and Not) making decent livings at good jobs that they don't hate. many are lifers in good companies with very good jobs


Oh yeah I'm sure that's true also. I've even heard of illegals building up successful small to medium sized businesses here.

Mm-kay, so how about it if we get the Gitmo guys over here for some lettuce picking?