This might be a "well duh" for some of you guys, esp. the racers out there, but from watching time trials I noticed a lot of riders sliding WAY forward on the saddle, basically sitting on the tip of it. Looks uncomfortable. Last night we were riding really hard and I decided to try it on some of the flat sections. I felt a big difference right away. Lot more power/leverage. The disadvantage seemed to be that it put you in a less aero position on the bike, but I discovered you could mitigate that somewhat by getting down in the drops. It definitely gave me more juice on my sprints. Another suprising thing is that it wasn't that uncomfortable. It seems like when you shift your body position this way it transfers some body weight support from the saddle to the hands and legs, so you're not putting as much pressure on the saddle.

Anyway - it was quite the revelation for me last night so I thought I'd share. ;)

This might be a "well duh" for some of you guys, esp. the racers out there, but from watching time trials I noticed a lot of riders sliding WAY forward on the saddle, basically sitting on the tip of it.

That's called being "on the rivet", and it's not a good thing, That happens when you are at the limit and your form starts to go to hell. Sliding back on the saddle generally allows you to get more power. Sounds like your saddle adjustment is way off...

is the consensus that "riding the rivet" is not a good thing? i find it helpful to slide a little forward when I want to ride at a higher cadence. clearly you get more power from a position further back.

Hmmm - felt better to me. I guess I could play with my saddle adjustment again. I've been riding for a few years though and it felt ok to me.

sounds like moving your saddle forward wouldn't be a bad idea. when i'm on the nose of the saddle, it's usually when i'm going all out, and have given up on any form (as others have posted).

one guy i ride with, who's pretty strong, is almost always sitting on the nose of his saddle. it hurts just to look at it. good thing he has a tri saddle :)




This might be a "well duh" for some of you guys, esp. the racers out there, but from watching time trials I noticed a lot of riders sliding WAY forward on the saddle, basically sitting on the tip of it. Looks uncomfortable. Last night we were riding really hard and I decided to try it on some of the flat sections. I felt a big difference right away. Lot more power/leverage. The disadvantage seemed to be that it put you in a less aero position on the bike, but I discovered you could mitigate that somewhat by getting down in the drops. It definitely gave me more juice on my sprints. Another suprising thing is that it wasn't that uncomfortable. It seems like when you shift your body position this way it transfers some body weight support from the saddle to the hands and legs, so you're not putting as much pressure on the saddle.

Anyway - it was quite the revelation for me last night so I thought I'd share. ;)

Living in Florida I am typically always "in the flats".I prefer a foward position.If you have the right length stem and have your handlebar drop height where you like it this position is comfortable.

If I were to do the "plumb line" trick(drop a plumb line from your knee while the crank is horizontal to see where the line falls relative to the pedal axle),the line would fall several MM's in front of the pedal axle on both of my bikes.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p1e547f6a6bbfaf3bd3a724e280bd007a/efe1e68a.jpg

You can kind of tell in this picture,I have a no setback post and I have the Seatpost clamp on the SLR's rail at the maximum rear position.(this bike has a 73.5d seat tube so it is a kind of laid back geometry)

how long is your stem, and what's the saddle to bar drop? looks like you've got plenty of stretch, and something in the range of 10cms drop


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p1e547f6a6bbfaf3bd3a724e280bd007a/efe1e68a.jpg
You can kind of tell in this picture,I have a no setback post and I have the Seatpost clamp on the SLR's rail at the maximum rear position.(this bike has a 73.5d seat tube so it is a kind of laid back geometry)

The stem is a 110mm.The drop from the saddle to the top of the bar is 107mm.

I would actually like it lower.My Bianchi San Lorenzo has 115mm of drop.However,this bike has that carbon FSA cap on the headset and with a 73d stem setting on top of it with no spacers 107mm is all you can get with a 11cm stem.

I am still plenty comfortable on it but several mm's more drop would be better.

The pros do this all the time in the TT's.

This might be a "well duh" for some of you guys, esp. the racers out there, but from watching time trials I noticed a lot of riders sliding WAY forward on the saddle, basically sitting on the tip of it. Looks uncomfortable. Last night we were riding really hard and I decided to try it on some of the flat sections. I felt a big difference right away. Lot more power/leverage. The disadvantage seemed to be that it put you in a less aero position on the bike, but I discovered you could mitigate that somewhat by getting down in the drops. It definitely gave me more juice on my sprints. Another suprising thing is that it wasn't that uncomfortable. It seems like when you shift your body position this way it transfers some body weight support from the saddle to the hands and legs, so you're not putting as much pressure on the saddle.

Anyway - it was quite the revelation for me last night so I thought I'd share. ;)

that's one sexy ass machine

Living in Florida I am typically always "in the flats".I prefer a foward position.If you have the right length stem and have your handlebar drop height where you like it this position is comfortable.

If I were to do the "plumb line" trick(drop a plumb line from your knee while the crank is horizontal to see where the line falls relative to the pedal axle),the line would fall several MM's in front of the pedal axle on both of my bikes.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p1e547f6a6bbfaf3bd3a724e280bd007a/efe1e68a.jpg

You can kind of tell in this picture,I have a no setback post and I have the Seatpost clamp on the SLR's rail at the maximum rear position.(this bike has a 73.5d seat tube so it is a kind of laid back geometry)

That's called being "on the rivet", and it's not a good thing, That happens when you are at the limit and your form starts to go to hell. Sliding back on the saddle generally allows you to get more power. Sounds like your saddle adjustment is way off...

Take a look at Zabriske's position (widely regarded as the best TT position out there). He is way forward on the saddle. Tri bikes are designed this way to specifically move you forward (steeper seat tube angle). Going steeper INCREASES your power output when you get low in front by preserving your hip angle. If you go low and slide back, your hip angle gets too acute and you lose power. The OP's original comments make sense.

Mike P.

The pros do this all the time in the TT's.
take a look at this
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5636399342484711875&q=tour+of+california&pl=true

that's one sexy ass machine

Thanks.:D

I have seen pics of Bobby Julich(I think)where he had the nose of his saddle cut off on his TT bike since the UCI has a ruke where the saddle cannot be further than the center of the BB.

The pros do this all the time in the TT's.

And there are a lot of reasons for that - mostly having to do with solely aerodynamic considerations and the resultant bike geometries required to get an extremely forward position. Even with Floyd's setup I don't really know why he's up on the nose of the saddle like that. There's no legitimate reason I know of not to have the seat under your sit bones where it's supposed to be, unless due to the saddle and bike design it's simply not possible to get the seat far enough forward. At any rate, I wouldn't recommend that position for a road bike.

well, to be honest, regardless of "who does what", I've been riding for a while and I felt a significant power advantage sliding forward on my seat on my Thurs. night ride in certain circumstances. I don't think it was just a placebo effect.

And there are a lot of reasons for that - mostly having to do with solely aerodynamic considerations and the resultant bike geometries required to get an extremely forward position. Even with Floyd's setup I don't really know why he's up on the nose of the saddle like that. There's no legitimate reason I know of not to have the seat under your sit bones where it's supposed to be, unless due to the saddle and bike design it's simply not possible to get the seat far enough forward. At any rate, I wouldn't recommend that position for a road bike.

Maybe it tickles his prostate and feels good for him. :eek:

I suppose the TT and triathlon guys "rotate" their position forward for a reason. Clearly that does not work in all situations. Whatever works...

As mentioned before it has to do with hip angle and flexibilty. I like to slide forward on fast flats as well and can tell a difference. It's definitely easier to spin faster in this postion. A good comparison would be a high rev engine that's max HP is generated at a high rpm. Sliding back in the saddle is reserved for climbing where you're generally spinning a slower cadence and riding the hoods or tops. I agree that more "torque" can be created in this position ,but only when seated more upright.

And there are a lot of reasons for that - mostly having to do with solely aerodynamic considerations and the resultant bike geometries required to get an extremely forward position. Even with Floyd's setup I don't really know why he's up on the nose of the saddle like that. There's no legitimate reason I know of not to have the seat under your sit bones where it's supposed to be, unless due to the saddle and bike design it's simply not possible to get the seat far enough forward. At any rate, I wouldn't recommend that position for a road bike.

The reason he is on the nose is because UCI rules prevent him from sliding the saddle more forward. I am sure that he would love to have the saddle under his sit bones.

Mike

As mentioned before it has to do with hip angle and flexibilty. I like to slide forward on fast flats as well and can tell a difference.

And I like to slide back in the same situation to generate maximum power. So who's right? Clearly seat position is an individual thing, my only point is that it's better to have the saddle under you, whether it's fore or aft.

Yes, you generate more power when you slide forward one the flats, but it's not a position you want to use for extended periods of time. Most riders can generate more power out of the saddle but we don't get rid of the saddle right? Good riders avoid sliding forward until they really need it. When a rider slides forward, it's often an indication that they're really going hard and trying to generate power by using different muscle groups and a lower saddle position. On a road bike, it's best to keep the saddle position neutral and then use different positions as is called for by the situation.

I didn't really try it for extended periods, just when we started really hammering and kind of racing each other. I don't think it would be a good position for other things - like climbing, ect...

Again - it looks uncomfortable but really wasn't that bad. You're not supporting as much weight on the saddle when you do this.

..really wasn't that bad. You're not supporting as much weight on the saddle when you do this.

Exactly..
When I'm "on the rivet", I'm most likely pushing hard on the pedals and I don't really put that much pressure on the saddle.

My bike setup: 74.5 STA, no setback post, seat rail clamped in the middle, 12cm drop, and a 120 mm stem. (KOPS a few MM forward) It looks extreme but this is what's comfortable for me.

dude w/ the Bianchi: Maybe a longer stem might have the same effect as having more drop? I have read that from one of C-40's posts on fit I believe...

Right or wrong...

Well this is a duh! to me. And I'm glad you found it.

Right there on the tip, hands down on the drops and flat back; that's when I'm hammering in front, taking all the wind and being the best domestique to my friends who hide behind.

Definitely a good power position allowing you to sollicitate different muscles. Your saddle is long, the handle barwide. Use them.

Slide back during the long haul up a faux-plat, pulling hard on the back stroke, using your lower back. Slide forward, boobs to the tube to work those pistons under you.

Works for me.

dude w/ the Bianchi: Maybe a longer stem might have the same effect as having more drop? I have read that from one of C-40's posts on fit I believe...

I have thought about that but it would actually raise the bar.This bike a has a 72.5d headtube.There is a .5d rise on a -17/73d stem.A longter stem would raise it a few mm's.

I think the only option I have(which I am content with the set up)would be to find a Headset cap that isn't as tall.However,It really isn't that noticable.

The best "upgrade" I ever made came by default on my new bike a Fizik Arione after using a Flite for years. At first I was worried about the flatter profile, but soon I realized that I could slide back and forth a lot easier. The Flite was comfy in "one" position. Getting on the nose was uncomfortable thus I never used that position.

BTW how's everybody's prostate feeling today?