Disclaimer first: I roll through most 4way stops if a) no-one's there, or b) I can clearly make it before a car reaches the line.

So who else experiences this?-- On my commute there are LOTS of stop signs, at least a dozen. I want to be a responsible cyclist, so I always stop/yield when there's a car at the cross street with the ROW. I'll stand and slow aways back from the stop line so I don't have to stop & unclip. (I've never mastered a track stand.) But most of the time the driver will cede the ROW to me anyway.

It's the "After you/ no I insist" worst of both worlds (except getting hit). Now both of us have spent too much time waiting for the other. If the driver had treated me like another car he'd be through the intersection and I could have rolled on like I wanted to.

I think most drivers around here have been conditioned to expect that cyclists will blow the stop sign; to avoid hitting me they give up the ROW to a bike when they wouldn't to a car.

Am I helping the image of cyclists, and frustrating us all on the commute; or shall I reinforce the drivers' worst assumptions about lawless cyclists and let us all get home sooner?

Disclaimer first: I roll through most 4way stops if a) no-one's there, or b) I can clearly make it before a car reaches the line.

It's the "After you/ no I insist" worst of both worlds (except getting hit). Now both of us have spent too much time waiting for the other. If the driver had treated me like another car he'd be through the intersection and I could have rolled on like I wanted to.

I agree with your disclaimer. High alert when approaching 4 way stops & move to the center of the lane if no one is following so I can see the most around the right corner & be visible the most to anyone.
If you get into the situation of "After you/ no I insist", 'wave them through' hand gesture works most of the time.
I still ride on platform pedals & running shoes, hopping on/off is not as big as an issue for me.

but I wear rubber soled shoes and use straps & platform pedals too; I just have to put a foot down too often. I will occasionally ride my road bike with Look pedals and cleats. Those plastic soles require vigilance at traffic lights.

But you're really asking about yielding ROW. My commute has lights. I strictly observe the red light at major intersections and treat it as a yield sign at minor intersections. Due to the light, I rarely have the "after you" problem. When someone offers me that courtesy, I quickly take it, while looking everywhere I can for other hazards. My rationale is that decisive, responsible action is safest and breeds mutual respect.

I strictly observe the red light at major intersections and treat it as a yield sign at minor intersections.

All my lights are major intersections. I obey red lights whenever there is a car waiting at the intersection, in either direction, even at 6:45 AM and we are both staring at an empty street. If I'm all alone then I'll ride through it after a good look around.

All my lights are major intersections. I obey red lights whenever there is a car waiting at the intersection, in either direction, even at 6:45 AM and we are both staring at an empty street. If I'm all alone then I'll ride through it after a good look around.


i am an american living in germany. here anything on the road from donkey carts to atv's to bikes are considered vehicles. many roads, even "quiet" ones have very high or unlimited speeds and are exceedingly narrow, even away from town often lanes are merged into one and you have to squeeze a car over when one is oncoming. with many four way stops and some funky yield to the right traffic laws i have learned to obey all traffic laws.

riders here regularly get speeding tickets and tickets for running red lights, somewhere around the 1-200 euro mark!

i think that we as cyclists cannot demand our "rights" on the road if we don't adhere to the laws and ride like legitimate vehicles on the public roads.

if you want to talk the talk you have to walk the walk...

I confessed my sins a while back on the Dirt Rag Forums

http://www.dirtragmag.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1933

Until you’ve ridden in the cycling shoes of another.

I commute from NJ to NYC via bike a few times/week. There must be about 150 traffic lights on my 24-mile (one way) route through one of the most densely populated areas of the country. To even ask about running lights in NYC is absurd. EVERY cyclist, from CAT 1 to granny to pizza delivery guy to bike cop runs lights. Rather than obeying the letter of the law, I prefer to look at the big picture, ride for self-preservation & never mess up another vehicle’s right of way.

i am an american living in germany. here anything on the road from donkey carts to atv's to bikes are considered vehicles. many roads, even "quiet" ones have very high or unlimited speeds and are exceedingly narrow, even away from town often lanes are merged into one and you have to squeeze a car over when one is oncoming. with many four way stops and some funky yield to the right traffic laws i have learned to obey all traffic laws.

riders here regularly get speeding tickets and tickets for running red lights, somewhere around the 1-200 euro mark!

i think that we as cyclists cannot demand our "rights" on the road if we don't adhere to the laws and ride like legitimate vehicles on the public roads.

if you want to talk the talk you have to walk the walk...
Been there (Dornstetten/Hallwangen near Freudenstadt), thankfullty not on bike, & you are so right regarding the narrow roads. Looking to get killed as many drivers are flying by at +100kph including the fellow who gave me the ride.

I experience the same thing. It seems that many drivers drive by "rhythm" or something at 4-way stops, where they come to a stop long enough for another car to go through, steal a glance right and left, then proceed. So I'm happy to see that some people are actually paying attention and pause when they see a cyclist. Then again, it really messes up my rhythm and forces me to unclip when someone waits and waits while I am waiting for them. I usually don't go unless they wave me through.

Oh well. No matter how annoying it is, unclipping and stopping is safer than blowing through the intersection, so I'll stick with that policy. Until I learn to track stand.

Yes, drivers trying to be polite is frustrating. We Texans are a polite bunch, so around here, even if I have a stop and a driver doesn't, they'll often stop in the middle of the road, waving me through. Frustrating, because it takes more time for me to figure out what the heck they're doing than if they'd just go on and let me go right behind them.

I've taken to directing traffic. As I roll up to a stop, I wave the cars on through, and they get the idea that I want them to go so that I can keep rolling and don't have to unclip. Even on a MUT that crosses a major street, people often stop, so I direct them on as I approach the street and it seems to help. Not always, of course, but it's better than just waiting to figure out what thye're going to do.

The same thing occurs here frequently, I figured it was a local thing but obviously it's more widespread.

I mostly stop for stop signs & lights. I'll run the one light I have on my commute if it's clear there's no one coming. It's one of those lights that activated by a vehicle's presence so my bike doesn't trigger it. I frequently have drivers a) yielding to me when they have the ROW or b) NOT yielding to me when I have the ROW. It seems very few people are clear on the rules. I pass through many uncontrolled intersections where the rule is "yield to the right". It seems most people are confused about which is their right hand.

When someone wrongly yields to me, I REFUSE to go! To do so only encourages their erroneous behaviour. It's one thing to be careful & make sure I'm not an idiot cyclist blowing the intersection but I often end up in a standoff with these people waiting for them to go. I cross a main street with 3 lanes of traffic in each direction. Occasionaly, some fool stops in an effort to allow me to cross. Sure 1 car in 1 lane stops, but what about the other 30 cars in the other 5 lanes? I refuse to enter out into that accident waiting to happen. Invariably the guy who stops is at the back of a series of cars and by stopping totally screws up my timing for the window of opportunity to cross that was jsut about to open (that brief window where traffic from each direction clears long enough for me to speed across).

I'm a cermudgeonly bugger, especially in the morning, and I frequently hollar at other cyclists who seem blissfully unaware that there are rules of the road by which to abide. The only thing that ticks me off more than drivers who don't know what they're doing is cyclists who don't ride predictably and in accordance with the rules.

Bryan

When someone wrongly yields to me, I REFUSE to go! To do so only encourages their erroneous behaviour.

Bryan

I will try that on my way home today. I just have to remember to wave them on in a friendly way, while I mutter "stupid &%# " under my breath!

At four way stops I tend to yield as I would if I were in a car. If, however, I make eye contact with the other person, and he wants to start playing the polite "After you" game, I take decisive action and go, after making sure no other vehicles have approached from other directions. I do this in my car as well as on my bike. I'm done trying to teach people the correct approach to driving, intersections, etc. There's too many dumb people on the road to even make a difference. The most important thing is to know what you're doing and how to react to what the other idiot might do.

Until you’ve ridden in the cycling shoes of another.

I commute from NJ to NYC via bike a few times/week. There must be about 150 traffic lights on my 24-mile (one way) route through one of the most densely populated areas of the country. To even ask about running lights in NYC is absurd. EVERY cyclist, from CAT 1 to granny to pizza delivery guy to bike cop runs lights. Rather than obeying the letter of the law, I prefer to look at the big picture, ride for self-preservation & never mess up another vehicle’s right of way.

I'm with you there - thought I've reading that the NYC cycle cops are out and ticketing now that it's spring - so keep an eye out for them.

So who else experiences this?-- On my commute there are LOTS of stop signs, at least a dozen. I want to be a responsible cyclist, so I always stop/yield when there's a car at the cross street with the ROW. I'll stand and slow aways back from the stop line so I don't have to stop & unclip. (I've never mastered a track stand.) But most of the time the driver will cede the ROW to me anyway.


I get that all the time. I usually just give 'em a signal to go w/ a sideways waggle of my head. If they don't go then I'll go rather than sitting there all day. I think track-standing stop signs throws a lot of drivers off. Like they think if your feet are still on the pedals you're gonna do a suicide-lunge in front of their car or something...

-Trevor

Since my feet never stop moving, they think I’ve going for it regardless. I’ve had the same trouble with pedestrians too. Sometimes I lay down a skid just to be clear about it.

I agree that trackstands mess ‘em up too – they don’t know what to make of that.

- Chris


I get that all the time. I usually just give 'em a signal to go w/ a sideways waggle of my head. If they don't go then I'll go rather than sitting there all day. I think track-standing stop signs throws a lot of drivers off. Like they think if your feet are still on the pedals you're gonna do a suicide-lunge in front of their car or something...

-Trevor