My gripe after several visits to local and most convenient shop for me.

About two months ago, I started my search for a carbon frame. I checked out a shop in the nearby city (Store 1) that sells the Trek Madone. When I entered, teh only two people in the room were chatting away in the shop area. I don't think they said "hello" or "welcome to ...." After finding the right sized Madone frame on the upper rack (typical shop set up, about chest height) and admiring it, I decided to pull it down which took about two seconds (the bike was in one of those roof-top like racks w/ the back wheel secured only by the 'J' hook from the wall). As I took it down, the shop dudes freaked out and started telling me "you'll break it." There were no signs that I could see saying "do not touch", I'm a grown man in his 30s, and after a few minutes browsing, it should have been obvious that I knew what I was looking for. I explained that they should have offered their assistance instead of ignoring the only customer in the shop. Anyhoo, a sales person arrived and was great and helpful. Since I was still pissed off at the other people, I wrote an email to the shop and praised the salesman, but explained my dissatisfaction w/ the other employees. I didn't receive any response or acknowledgement.

Their other store (Store 2) is located closer to my house so I stopped by there one day while on a ride to pick up a new water bottle. Although my purchase was promptly rung-up at the register, I got the impression that I was bothering the cashier who didn't even say, "how can I help you" or "thank you."

Despite these less-than-friendly encounters at two of this local chain's stores, I went by Store 2 again to test ride the Madone. The sales person seemed friendly, if not 100 % well-versed in the Madone 5.2. He did, however, ask a colleague for info though when he did not know an answer. So far, so good. He quickly swapped my pedals and off I went. Unfortunately, the ride was not pleasant. For all I know, the Madone is great. My real concentration on the frame and fit was hampered by the dangling, hand-sized, handlebar-mounted, store tag which they didn't remove, a bontrager skewer tag that rubbed against the spokes like a child's baseball card, Ultegra components that skipped, popped and rubbed, and a rear brake caliper that rubbed agains the rim and was out of whatk. As much as I tried to move things around and adjust while on the ride, I wasn't too successful.

When I returned to the shop, the friendly mechanic swapped my pedals w/o fuss, but the salesperson was no where to be found. No one else (there were a few other sales folks hanging around) asked for my assessment of the bike, how it worked, if it fit, etc. etc. I had to ask another employee to go track down my sales person so I could claim my license and credit card which was being held as collateral. On my way out, I had to voluntarily tell them that the components were out of whack and which resulted in a disappointing ride. Their only response was, "tune-ups come with your purchase." I haven't test ridden other new bikes from other shops which required this much adjustment.

This shop has a few great people, but otherwise the rest of the staff seems apathetic. It reminded me of a local Best Buy where there is a 1:7 ratio of knowledgeable and helpful employees to apathetic ones. There are other Trek shops in the area so it is not like I don't have a choice. Moreover, there are also 10 other shops in a 10 mile radius that I can patronize and that carry everything from Trek to Specialized, C'dale, Orbea, Litespeed, Guru, Bianchi, Fuji, etc etc. I'm lucky that I can test out a variety of cycles and and be secure in my purchase.

I feel better about ranting and I thank you for reading (are you still there?) :). We all seem to like our local shops and expect a level of service that consistent w/ our level of enthusiasm. I just hope the shop and others are not thinking the bikes will sell themselves just b/c Lance rode one.

there. All better now. I just need to call the other nearby Trek dealer for a fresh test.

The last time I bought a bike from a LBS was 1992. I buy everything except the occasional water bottle from catalogs (now all on-line). I get better prices, no sales tax and what I want within days.

Sorry to hear about your experience. Unfortunately, that seems to be more and more the norm in retail anymore. When I was a young lad working in service jobs, it was stressed over and over that the customer is the reason you're there, so you had better take care of them and make them leave with a positive overall impression of their experience. Nowadays, people in these jobs seem to view customers as a necessary intrusion on their day, to be tolerated and disposed of.

There are exceptions, of course. In my area are a couple of LBS that have been in business for years, mostly because they still know how to treat a customer.

Jim

You have pretty clearly articulated why I don't waste my time going to LBSs any longer. Each of the things you've described have happened to me at one time or another. While I am sure that there are many dedicated LBS employees out there (many post here), the rules of thumb in my city seem to be: 1) why are you bothering us, we're busy jawing with our buds 2) we don't have it, 3) we have no idea what you're talking about, 4) I have better things to do than wait on you.

Which is pretty sad.

When I was a Stingray riding elementary school tad, I used to visit an LBS slightly across town. It was like going to the library, more cool stuff and helpful people than one could possibly imagine. I would love it when my Dad would find time to drive me over there. These days, it seems that places like that are by far and away the exception, and places like you visited are the rules. I'm as sorry as the next guy to see LBSs head down the business drain, but it just seems like too many of them are doing it to themselves.

I agree with Terry on his assessment of the normal LBS.
The only LBS in our whole county sells bikes and patio furniture in the same store. In the winter they take out the lawn furniture and sell snowboards and ski stuff. I think it is just getting to be an unprofitable business in most markets. They have to pay low wages and there is a lot of turnover, etc.

Recently, the last couple of times when I went to the LBS I felt like I was watched as a potential shoplifter rather than a customer. When you try to buy an ultegra der. or a fixed gear cog everything is special order and I have to come back in 2 to 5 days to pick it up I will just order it myself, save myself the two trips, tax, and frustration.

The only shop in my area that I enjoy shopping in is the Performance store. Go figure.

This is the kind of experience that makes me not go back to a certain LBS. I'm lucky enough to have a great bike shop a block away. I mean really great. In the past it's been a pain to drive further or miss out on club discounts by going to a better shop.

Silas

Shop #1 is a "run away from" shop.
Shop #2 is a "walk away from" shop.

Yeah, if a shop really doesn't have its ducks in a row, it's pretty hard to be successful selling things like $5000 bikes. The amount of inventory you have to have on-hand, compared to the rate of sales for these things, is staggering.

When starting up a business, people need to remember that these things cost as much as a decent used car.

Just shows how bad parents are today and how spoiled some kids have gotten (in general).
We instill please and thank you into our 3 year old constantly, so it becomes an auto response. And that politeness will stay with him the rest of his life. And you better believe that as he gets older, he will have some chores and be mowing the lawn. All around me I have parents getting mowing services, in some cases for very small yards, even though they have mutliple teenagers in the house who I never see doing anything. These kids are getting soft, lazy, and privileged. Then they go get a job at the LBS when they finally needed extra pocket money, and we see the result. There is a general lack of social skills with these kids, where you can clearly see how they were noever raised to properly address people and be courteous. Most of that is the parents, and then also bad store management who is not training sales skills and expecting good behavior from the employees, or otherwise kicking their butts out the door. If I was the manager and found out an emplyee was not greeting customers, ignoring them when they are essesntially doing nothing else, and then not saying thank you after the purchase, they would immediately get the Donald Trump treatment - You're FIRED!

I love my LBS. A comfy couch, they encourage everyone hanging out, good conversation, music playing, and best of all- free beer on tap from a local microbrewer.

They never treat me like an idiot, no matter how banal or stupid my questions might seem. Never steer me towards an unneeded purchase, and have in fact talked me out of a few hairbrained schemes I wanted to try because it would almost exactly duplicate a bike I already have. Sure I pay a bit more for some things compared to online purchases, but when I have a problem with my bike on a Friday afternoon and I have a big ride on Saturday... I know it'll get taken care of in time (and has). I know that won't be happening with Nashbar or Performance. In fact, I've never seen them treat any customer poorly.

I'm sorry you have a troublesome shop. Reading the many post like this one makes me appreciate mine so much more. There are some good shops out there, apparently they're just few and far between.

Free beer? Your LBS has free beer? I must talk to mine about this concept....

Free beer? Your LBS has free beer? I must talk to mine about this concept....
Heck yeah, and good beer too. None of that rotgut crap that I see at so many places. They had looked into Shiner Bock, but ended up working out a deal with a local, independant brewer here in Fort Worth who makes fantastic beer. There is a donation kitty to help defray their cost... but not required. Nothing like a nice cold beer after a long ride on a hot day!

If you ever end up in Fort Worth give me a shout and I'll hook you up.

I thought I might have had a few pics of the tap on my hard drive and I did. I think these guys have spoiled me for any other shop around...

Here's a few pics, IIRC they're after a pub crawl we did a few months ago, you'll notice in the second pic almost everyone has a pint glass in their hands:

Seems like the requirements that Trek places on thier dealers makes for an LBS like you describe. It is my understand that it is very difficult for smaller "mom and pop" type shops to carry them. In any buisness where the employees do not have a vested interest sevice will suffer.

Like many of the other poster I'm lucky to have a great shop fairly close. Although there are at least 4 closer it is worth the 12 mile drive. Family owned, groups rides everyday and free bagels on Saturday Mornings. No Beer:mad:

And LBS owners wonder why online sellers are killing their business. There are 2 shops in my area that offer great service. One is a bicycle mega-store and the other is a pretty small shop.

Sadly, customer service is just about dead these days. I remember the good old days when you could go to Radio Shack and actually learn something about electronic components.

I wish my town had a shop like ChrisH's...:thumbsup:

If you ever end up in Fort Worth give me a shout and I'll hook you up.

Funny you should say that... My girlfriend's family reunion is in Fort Worth next weekend so I may just have to find an excuse to step out for a few.... hours. :D

Heck yeah, and good beer too. None of that rotgut crap that I see at so many places. They had looked into Shiner Bock, but ended up working out a deal with a local, independant brewer here in Fort Worth who makes fantastic beer. There is a donation kitty to help defray their cost... but not required. Nothing like a nice cold beer after a long ride on a hot day!

If you ever end up in Fort Worth give me a shout and I'll hook you up.

Hey Chris, where is your LBS located? Today I just put a down payment on a Six13 in Grapevine (Mad Duck). They have free beer too! They have a keg (was empty) :( , but I grabbed one out of the fridge (stout), the worst they have is Red Stripe.

With regards to Radio Shack: I had a buddy who worked there during college. He told me he spent half his time educating people about electronics and the other half watching movies on the tv.

With regards to the LBS: I guess Im one of the lucky ones. The LBS I frequent now is a smaller mom and pop joint. Its just the 40 ish owner and his wife who man the floor and do the wrenching with help from a part time mechanic when hes not wrenching for a pro team. They are the friendliest most helpful people Ive met and always try to cut me a break even though I didnt purchase my bike from them (I recently moved into the area). The other LBS i patronized, I couldnt spend 3 minutes in there without a salesperson coming up to me and politely informing me that if i had any questions at all, please feel free to ask. Two truly exception LBS's.

I try to buy some of my "extras" at the LBS and an occassional compenent if the difference between that and online sales isnt too large.

Im pretty sure my next bike will be from one of those two shops though.

It's Panther City Bicycles on Magnolia in Fort Worth.

Haven't been to Mad Duck yet, but I've been looking for a reason to get up there. I just don't travel up that way very often. A guy I ride with every now and then has been to there shop a few times and seemed to like it.

Jason, if you want shoot me a PM and I might be able to hook up with you, but I'm sure you could find it on your own if you wanted to. I don't think I'm on shift next weekend, but I don't have my schedule in front of me right now...

Seems like the requirements that Trek places on thier dealers makes for an LBS like you describe. It is my understand that it is very difficult for smaller "mom and pop" type shops to carry them.

Perhaps it depends on the region/country where they're sold?

My LBS in Birmingham, England was quite small and the owner lived above the shop. He sold Trek, among other brands, and was one of the more hands-on shops around. Definitely a place I'd send anyone who needed a bike. Perhaps the British bike shop hasn't fallen victim to the American corporate Trek bullshyte.

The problem I see with some of these places is the bad advice or just lack of knowledge. Like they were suggesting to someone who seemed to prefer mtb style shoes that there was no middle ground btween getting flexy mtb shoes with pedals that cause hot spots and efficient road shoes.

Sometimes you see posts on how you should support your local shop

truth is - the only way to improve bike shops is for consumers to buy with their own interest at heart - basic adam smith stuff

cyclists should bargin for their best deal and shop where they get it
on-line or in shops that want to compete
this behavoir will force poorly run shops to improve or go away

\After finding the right sized Madone frame on the upper rack (typical shop set up, about chest height) and admiring it, I decided to pull it down which took about two seconds (the bike was in one of those roof-top like racks w/ the back wheel secured only by the 'J' hook from the wall). As I took it down, the shop dudes freaked out and started telling me "you'll break it." There were no signs that I could see saying "do not touch", I'm a grown man in his 30s, and after a few minutes browsing, it should have been obvious that I knew what I was looking for.

Sorry, but IMO that was kind of an odd thing to do. Do you go behind the counter at a jewelry store and try on watches if there's nobody there?

Well written but, unfortunate write-up. I think we all know how you feel. My LBS makes it very easy for me to part w/my money.

The realtionship between yourself and your LBS should be like a good marrige. BOTH sides need to be reasonable and responsible for it to really work and payoff! The internet has the potential to destory this marrage and is like having a girlfriend, always there just in case!!!

Best regards in your search cptab.

I don't have anything against the LBS. I just don't use them. I don't need them. I build my own bikes. I service my own bikes. I do a better job than the LBS does because I can take my time. The nearest LBS (22 miles) doesn't even have a bottom bracket facer. I have one-English and Italian.

The LBS's here don't stock what interests me and there isn't any point in ordering through them since I can order myself and save a bundle. I shop on line and that saves me a lot of money compared to using an LBS.

I think learning to service a bike is worthwhile for any serious rider - at least those serious enough to read a forum like this one.

i work at basically that exact shop as "one of the friendly mechanics". if there's a shop with a 7-1 uncaring to caring employee ratio i'd say 50% of the sold bikes go out less than perfectly tuned, especially if they're cheaper models. it's a shame, many people love our shop but sometimes i feel like i'm the only person there that provides the service people deserve. the only way to really know how good shops are in your area is to be friends with a mechainc, real friends not "shop friends". you may enjoy chatting with the friendly salespeople upstairs but 90% of them will stab you in the wallet the moment you turn your back.

My real concentration on the frame and fit was hampered by the dangling, hand-sized, handlebar-mounted, store tag which they didn't remove, a bontrager skewer tag that rubbed against the spokes like a child's baseball card, Ultegra components that skipped, popped and rubbed, and a rear brake caliper that rubbed agains the rim and was out of whatk.
if a customer isn't satisfied with the way a test ride is going due to bike issues, we'll toss the bike in a stand and tweak things. did you ask someone at your shop to maybe correct things a little?

.

I think learning to service a bike is worthwhile for any serious rider - at least those serious enough to read a forum like this one.


THIS IS EXACTLY CORRECT
working on a bike is easy
picking your correct size is easy
most people do jobs that are much harder than being a bike mechanic

Serious Riders know how to work on their bike
and they have no need to pay the high prices charged by bike shops

Botto Responded after quoting me:

"Quote:
Originally Posted by cptab
\After finding the right sized Madone frame on the upper rack (typical shop set up, about chest height) and admiring it, I decided to pull it down which took about two seconds (the bike was in one of those roof-top like racks w/ the back wheel secured only by the 'J' hook from the wall). As I took it down, the shop dudes freaked out and started telling me "you'll break it." There were no signs that I could see saying "do not touch", I'm a grown man in his 30s, and after a few minutes browsing, it should have been obvious that I knew what I was looking for."

Botto's Resonse:
Sorry, but IMO that was kind of an odd thing to do. Do you go behind the counter at a jewelry store and try on watches if there's nobody there?
----

I think comparing a bicycle store with open racks and cycles that are out in the open, that are not tied or chained down are fair game for handling. I did not have to go behind a counter to look at the model that interested me. If I had gone behind the counter and opened up the glass case to browse from the selection of pedals and other accessories, it would be a different story. If someone had come over and said, "Let me help you with that", I would have been a happy customer.

if a customer isn't satisfied with the way a test ride is going due to bike issues, we'll toss the bike in a stand and tweak things. did you ask someone at your shop to maybe correct things a little?


You made a good point. Unfortunately, no one was around for me to discuss the problem. I didn't notice the gear problems until I was a mile or two away from the urban area of the store and on a local trail. At that point, I wanted to keep going to and try to adjust along the way. I've tested new cycles before without, thankfully, similar problems. When I returned, they barely acknowledged my assessment and didn't suggest another ride. Oh well.

I have had similar experiences like this one. I don't think I have ever been to any bike shop that gave good service. That's why I buy everything from bikes to tubes online.

duplicate of message below.

i work at basically that exact shop as "one of the friendly mechanics". if there's a shop with a 7-1 uncaring to caring employee ratio i'd say 50% of the sold bikes go out less than perfectly tuned, especially if they're cheaper models. it's a shame, many people love our shop but sometimes i feel like i'm the only person there that provides the service people deserve. the only way to really know how good shops are in your area is to be friends with a mechainc, real friends not "shop friends". you may enjoy chatting with the friendly salespeople upstairs but 90% of them will stab you in the wallet the moment you turn your back.


Interesting point about the mechanics. Except for those two I mentioned w/ poor manners (and I'm sure they are generally nice and intelligent people who just need to refine their customer service skills), the mechanics seem to generally respond to any concerns or fit issues and can understand what the rider needs to correct the problem. I've also noticed (not sure if I'm correct or not) that the mechanics have a lower turnover than sales staff.

In the end, I'm fortunate enough to have a good variety of shops in the area.

First some context ...
I live in the Seattle suburbs (Eastside for you locals) and we have a bunch of shops around. I happen to live 3 miles from a Performace Bike Shop (yep- storefront to the online guys). Managed by Chris, the place is great from a service and price perspective. Good guys who all ride and are just plain cool. Endless hookups with good sales and very understanding and helpful people. Returns, no problem. Exchanges, same. Manager even remembered two months after xmas when I came in that a bike I'd bought for my daughter had gone on sale and credited me the difference! Love these guys.

To contrast, every shopping experience I've had with PBS online sucked. Late stuff, rude people on the phone, clueless people on the phone, you name it.

Local shops are hit and miss. A local shop (Gregg's in Bellevue) sell great bikes and are, to a man, a pack of jerks always pushing the upsale (tho their mechanics are skilled and reportedly quite helpful). IL Vecchio, a botique shop run by the most grizzled, cranky coot in cycling gets 100% of my new frame and mechanic business. The owner, George, has forgotten more than I'll ever know. He'll also help out any rider in the middle of a lake loop and is one of the most forgiving old-school codgers when us young-uns (I'm 39) come in to chat.

Hard and fast rule for me is that I'll pay a premium for knowledge and expertise when needed, shop deals when I buy commodity items, and return EVERY TIME when treated with respect. Note that respect includes fair pricing (saw a Thompson Elite on one shop for $100 ... give me a break!) as well.

Ever see a shop change drastically?

A shop I bought my road bike from a couple of years was a good place
to be until lately:

We visited the place to see if they had a mountain bike the wife wanted to
check out.

It had a very large display floor at the time - that sales floor has since been
walled off - it appears they've moved the repairs area into the old sales floor
and put what is left of their bikes on sale right into the lobby area resulting
in a somewhat claustrophobic feel.

Weirdly, they had a 50/50 mix of high end road bikes that were fairly
drool worthy but almost nothing in the way of mountain bikes - they had
very little in the way of any dual suspension, everything was hardtails
with front suspension forks with v-brakes.

When we got there the salesguy and a wrench were helping out a
younger woman who was pretty attractive - we were pretty much
ignored as was another woman who might have been in her 40s.

We left, I have no idea if they even sensed we were there but it
appeared that something changed in that shop.

All of their accessories were pretty much gone, as was bike
clothes, helmets, etc. It seemed pretty much down just ot bikes.

Odd.