I likey! We need to compile a list of sub $600 carbon frames....a pricepoint I never thought I'd see.

http://www.leaderbikeusa.com/Auction%20Road/796R/Small/Header.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2007-LEADER-55CM-51-C-C-796R-FULL-CARBON-ROAD-FRAME_W0QQitemZ110003103059QQihZ001QQcategoryZ9808 4QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There must be an unbroken line of container ships leaving Kaohsiung and docking at Long Beach supplying the never-ending inexpensive CF frame new product introdcutions.

Well, it looks nice, but how do you tell if it's any good? :confused:

it looks like this frame has lugs in rear

i would think that for $600 in a name like this you could get a full monocoque frame

Now explain to us in detail exactly why full monocoque is better (because you think so isn't a reason). Then tell us exactly which frames are "full" monocoque. There are a number where the front quadrilateral is monocoque, but I'd really like you to tell us which bikes are "full" monocoque.

Huh... I fortunately have forgotten how much I paid for a lugged carbon Look. Even Trek uses lugs...

You know better than to ask him for facts...............Collectorvelo invented the vague reply. Besides his favorite online retailer doesn't sell a lugged carbon frame.

As for the Leader, I've never seen the carbon frame but I recently built up a Leader mountain bike for a neighbor. I was very impressed with the quality of the frame..

You know better than to ask him for facts...............Collectorvelo invented the vague reply. Besides his favorite online retailer doesn't sell a lugged carbon frame.

As for the Leader, I've never seen the carbon frame but I recently built up a Leader mountain bike for a neighbor. I was very impressed with the quality of the frame..

C'mon Dave, we both know that monocoque is vastly superior. It goes without saying.

OK........ I'll admit it....... Monocoque frames are the greatest riding frames EVER.....

I just love the dead/wooden feeling of most of the monocoques I've ridden......

Dave, I thought you liked my Aegis!

$600 ? that is probably a 400% profit. Clarence at Mad Duck Adventure Sports said that he was offered full carbon frames with his logo for $150 each quantity 100. He also said that most of the carbon frames from the smaller builders are that same $150 frame.

I just love the dead/wooden feeling of most of the monocoques I've ridden......

Otherwise known as "superior vibration damping" in the internet common knowledge collective consciousness. :D

Good point Jim... I forgot about the Aegis...You have one beautiful bike...

It's amazing how cheap carbon frames have gotten. Of course, carbon can be manipulated more than any other material so ride quality can vary greatly between manufacturers.

I'm tempted to get one. Never had a CF bike before. Don't want to spend all that money on something that could potentially be damaged by just falling over.

None of the people I ride with would even know that Leader was a "budget" frame. All they'd see is "carbon fiber!"

Of course even cheaper than the $150 dollar CF frame is the one that builds up into about a 23 pound CF bike.

One layer of CF wrapped around fiberglass tubes, looks like CF for the muppets, sure doesn't weigh like it.

Courtesy of certain plants in points west ( way west) of LA and Vancouver.

Of course even cheaper than the $150 dollar CF frame is the one that builds up into about a 23 pound CF bike.

One layer of CF wrapped around fiberglass tubes, looks like CF for the muppets, sure doesn't weigh like it.

Courtesy of certain plants in points west ( way west) of LA and Vancouver.

Well that wouldn't be good if it was heavier than my steel Colnagos :D

I wonder what price Mad Duck was offered for aluminum frames? I.E., is 400% pretty standard regardless of material?

It is possible to buy Al frames for as little as $8

covenant,

You may also be interested in the Pedal Force ZX3 for $600. http://www.pedalforce.com/online/

Thanks,
Tshirt

Oh yeah, I remember Pedal Force. Not bad looking. And 2.6 lbs for a 55cm isn't bad at all.
Now I gotta find a way to crack my frame to justify the replacement with the wifey!


ah, here's another from Chuck's bikes...$595

http://www.chucksbikes.com/store/big_fr059a.jpg

I'm tempted to get one. Never had a CF bike before. Don't want to spend all that money on something that could potentially be damaged by just falling over.

None of the people I ride with would even know that Leader was a "budget" frame. All they'd see is "carbon fiber!"


I just posted the link on the weighweenies forum-- those guys will probably be able to tell who is making it for them and even more importantly, which big names are using the same frame (if any) w/ their own paint/decals and marking up the price 1000%.

You may also be interested in the Pedal Force ZX3 for $600.

AKA the Fetish Benesseree (http://fetishcycles.com/Benesseree.html) for $2,800 f&f, or the Moser Race Karbon (http://www.mosercycles.com/moser_race_karbon.html) for $4,000 complete

That Pedal Force and Tsunami don't look as "nice" as the Leader because of the decals. They look way tacky.

AKA the Fetish Benesseree (http://fetishcycles.com/Benesseree.html) for $2,800 f&f, or the Moser Race Karbon (http://www.mosercycles.com/moser_race_karbon.html) for $4,000 complete

That's not very nice of them to make the price so high; they are meanies. :(

Thanks for the info. It is interesting to see how the market is working.

Thanks,
:aureola:Tshirt :aureola:

ah, here's another from Chuck's bikes...$595

Thanks, I just checked out their web site. Did you see their new one?

Thanks,
Tshirt


Advanced RR1

I bought a Martec frame and fork from Chucks Bikes a while back for 350. I am still doing stress testing on it.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind about the RR1 at Chucks. First, there is only one size available, 53 ctt, and it uses a 25.4mm (1") seatpost which is a hard size to find.

Yeah, I didn't mention it because of those drawbacks....

I was offered this one from Karbona for $435...

Yeah, I didn't mention it because of those drawbacks....

Ahh, I see.

Well, keep'em comming. :thumbsup:

I was offered this one from Karbona for $435...

if they sell it in 54cm...that would make one wicked looking TT bike...

I was offered this one from Karbona for $435...

Looks an awful lot like the Kuota brand frames, no?

You know better than to ask him for facts...............Collectorvelo invented the vague reply. Besides his favorite online retailer doesn't sell a lugged carbon frame.

As for the Leader, I've never seen the carbon frame but I recently built up a Leader mountain bike for a neighbor. I was very impressed with the quality of the frame..
most i've laughed all day...

You know better than to ask him for facts...............Collectorvelo invented the vague reply. Besides his favorite online retailer doesn't sell a lugged carbon frame.
Actually they have one now, here it is:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/images/falkc_med.jpg

As for the Leader, I've never seen the carbon frame but I recently built up a Leader mountain bike for a neighbor. I was very impressed with the quality of the frame..
I have built both a Leader mountain bike, for my nephew, and a Leader TT bike for me. I was also impressed by the quality of the bikes.

Now explain to us in detail exactly why full monocoque is better (because you think so isn't a reason). Then tell us exactly which frames are "full" monocoque. There are a number where the front quadrilateral is monocoque, but I'd really like you to tell us which bikes are "full" monocoque.


Do I need a reason the prefer in carbon fiber a monocoque frame over a lugged one?

In steel frames I prefer lugged frame over tig - do I need a reason for that too?

some people like smooth welds on aluminum - some like big beefy looking welds?

some like blondes, myself I prefer redhaeds -- do I need a reason

in the case of frames - I do think carbon fiber monocque cost more to build; and I can see why - but that I prefer them as they look better to me

It's amazing how cheap carbon frames have gotten. Of course, carbon can be manipulated more than any other material so ride quality can vary greatly between manufacturers.[/QUOTE]


this may or may not be true - doesnt matter as almost all cf frames use similar geo
and techniques
so we may never know

of the about two dozen I have tested; I could not tell any major difference that I would abtribute to the frame

I'm not a great CF fan and expect it to be a fad
but to the extent there is any chance of a new better frame; I have not seen it yet
for the average guy

this may or may not be true - doesnt matter as almost all cf frames use similar geo
and techniques
so we may never know




Bull.....There is nothing further from the truth. Once again you give a vague reply with out any facts to back it up..

Look at the construction and engineering that goes into a TIME frame. TIME spins their own carbon and each tube has a varying thickness and carbon orientation based upon what characteristic they want on the tube.

I've said it many times before, I have nothing against these frames coming out of Asia. I've owned a couple of Asian made carbon frames and they were nice but nearly EVERY frame I've owned has a unique ride quality...All frames are not equal

This notion that all frames are same is pure BS....

Bull.....There is nothing further from the truth. Once again you give a vague reply with out any facts to back it up..

Look at the construction and engineering that goes into a TIME frame. TIME spins their own carbon and each tube has a varying thickness and carbon orientation based upon what characteristic they want on the tube.

I've said it many times before, I have nothing against these frames coming out of Asia. I've owned a couple of Asian made carbon frames and they were nice but nearly EVERY frame I've owned has a unique ride quality...All frames are not equal

This notion that all frames are same is pure BS....

I do not think all frames are equal
my guess is that today frames from taiwan compare to frames from italy or france
in the same way Honda compares to Fiat and Peugeot today
drawn your own conclusion

but on carbon fiber frames; I have never been able to tell a dimes worth of difference from one brand to the next
now comparing a nice steel or aluminum frame to a carbon frame - sure I can tell the difference -- I would think most could

the mechanic at the bikeshop I use was telling me most of the carbon frames from italy are actually from taiwan. they're made in taiwan, painted in italy and that allows them to put made in italy on them.

the mechanic at the bikeshop I use was telling me most of the carbon frames from italy are actually from taiwan. they're made in taiwan, painted in italy and that allows them to put made in italy on them.


this seems right on the face of it
and its good news - as paint is probably one of the things done very well in italy

seems like Taiwan has become the source of high grade frames for the world