surely you rightwingnuts have heard the story first presented in the NY Daily News, and also here (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aVCQCiKZHEiM&refer=us) about the disruption of a terror plot to bomb the Holland Tunnel? and surely you've read that the disclosure of this news was leaked to the press? where's all the outrage?

as FBI officials have stated, the disclosure of this "ongoing investigation" has hurt their intelligence gathering operations around the world.

Authorities said they hadn't intended to release details about the plot this early and that whoever leaked the information had compromised the FBI's relationship with some foreign intelligence services.

The person who leaked the details is ``clearly someone who doesn't understand the fragility of international relations,'' Mershon said. `We've had a number of uncomfortable questions and some upsetment with these foreign intelligence services that had been working with us on a daily basis.''

or are leaks that reveal news potentially favorable to the administration ok? never mind the fact that these plotters, much like the Miami crew arrested earlier, never seemed to get much beyond the wishful thinking "boy we hate america, wouldn't it be cool if we bombed some tunnels in New York" stage.

for some reason, none of you seem too upset by this disclosure of national security means and resources. wonder why?

I'm so .............incensed that words fail me. (shakes head sadly)

so you're in the camp that this is a "good leak" since its purpose was to portray the administration as heroic protectors of the american people. despite the fact that intelligence officials freely admit that it has hurt our intelligence operations.

not like those "bad leaks", that only reveal the administration breaking the law, and are claimed by them to have hurt national security, although no evidence can be presented by them to demonstrate exactly how.

so you're in the camp that this is a "good leak" since its purpose was to portray the administration as heroic protectors of the american people. despite the fact that intelligence officials freely admit that it has hurt our intelligence operations.

not like those "bad leaks", that only reveal the administration breaking the law, and are claimed by them to have hurt national security, although no evidence can be presented by them to demonstrate exactly how.

I think a special persecutor is in order here, then we can begin impeachment proceedings.

I think a special persecutor is in order here, then we can begin impeachment proceedings.

Nah. But next time the NYT runs a story about some blatantly obvious, yet still "top secret" monitoring program we should probably stop short of sedition charges for those involved. Quid pro quo and etc and all that.

Nah. But next time the NYT runs a story about some blatantly obvious, yet still "top secret" monitoring program we should probably stop short of sedition charges for those involved. Quid pro quo and etc and all that.

What was the supposed source of the leak and who profited? "Follow the money," Ive heard said.

(The increase doesn't eliminate all of a 40 percent cut the department made in New York's urban grant and the overall under- funded transit-security effort, lawmakers from the region said.

``For too long, the federal government has distributed security grants in a manner that seems to be based merely on a whim,'' said Senator Robert Menendez, a New Jersey Democrat.)

What was the supposewd source of the leak and who profited? "Follow the money," Ive heard said.

(The increase doesn't eliminate all of a 40 percent cut the department made in New York's urban grant and the overall under- funded transit-security effort, lawmakers from the region said.

``For too long, the federal government has distributed security grants in a manner that seems to be based merely on a whim,'' said Senator Robert Menendez, a New Jersey Democrat.)


Does it matter? Either leaks are bad or they aren't. I lean on the "they're bad" side of the fence and would rather not breed a culture in which leaks are commonplace. Do as I say, not as I do may work with five year olds but it ain't all that good for the rest of us.

I'm with ya' here Snake. This was probably leaked by the same person that leaked the electronic surveillance program and reported by the same NY Times. Who elese would put our security at risk but the same unAmerican person who leaked that? I have no idea where rufus was trying to go with this thread. Man talk about conspiracy nuts :D

so you're in the camp that this is a "good leak" since its purpose was to portray the administration as heroic protectors of the american people. despite the fact that intelligence officials freely admit that it has hurt our intelligence operations.

not like those "bad leaks", that only reveal the administration breaking the law, and are claimed by them to have hurt national security, although no evidence can be presented by them to demonstrate exactly how.

Um, it's an election year.
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Well, for what it's worth, I agree but this seems like a "Bush did it" thread and we actually have no idea who did it. I hope they can find the source of these leaks and prosecute them, whichever party they belong to. I'm not particularly excited about it though or optimistic that the source will be found. I'm glad the plot was discovered and stopped.

I'm with ya' here Snake. This was probably leaked by the same person that leaked the electronic surveillance program and reported by the same NY Times. Who elese would put our security at risk but the same unAmerican person who leaked that? I have no idea where rufus was trying to go with this thread. Man talk about conspiracy nuts :D

since you're dense, i'll go into it in greater detail.


we've had at least two instances where the rightwingnuts, including yourself and your good buddy Star trek geek The Captain, have been up in arms about the leaking of secret information to the newspapers. claiming that those leaks have hurt our intelligence gathering capabilities and thus endangered our national security, despite not offering any tangible proof or evidence that this was so. called the leakers, and the media that publihed those leaks treasonous, and called for action to be taken agaiunst them, whether it be imprisonment or even worse.

what did these two leaks have in common? they revealed instances where the president and the administration were operating outside the boundaries of our existing laws, an embarassing revelation to them politically.

now on to this leak. again, secret details about an ongoing investigation. one of the perpetrators was arrested several months ago, but once the story got into the papers, our intelligence agencies were scrambling to round up other members of the group before they went into hiding(sounds eerily similar to the situation after the administration revealed the identity of the Pakistani Al Qaeda informant we had a few years ago, doesn't it?) we have the FBI telling us that the revelation of this case has caused some resentment and lack of cooperation with some of our intelligence gathering allies around the world. two tangible, concrete examples of how this leak, unlike the other two, has hurt our intelligence gathering capabilities and our national security.

and yet, not a peep out of the wingnuts about treasonous leakers and the media who publish them. not a word from your good friend The Captain on his website. in fact, the rightwingnuts on the web aren't just decrying the existence of this leak, they're celebrating it. and why might this be? because in contrast to the other two leaks, this information isn't embarassing to the administration, but rather, is potentially good for them politically. they can point to it and justify their illegal actions, saying "see, this is why we need to do what we're doing. we are catching these bad guys and keeping America safe".

so, this was a good leak, cause it provides a forum for the administration to crow and preen before the public, to look strong and effective. those other leaks, the ones that revealed the administration's wrongdoing, were bad leaks.

now run along and see what the Captain wants you to say about this.

Well, for what it's worth, I agree but this seems like a "Bush did it" thread and we actually have no idea who did it. I hope they can find the source of these leaks and prosecute them, whichever party they belong to. I'm not particularly excited about it though or optimistic that the source will be found. I'm glad the plot was discovered and stopped.

I'm not into the whole "Bush did it!" BS. Consistencey though, I think would be a good thing. He should be just as pissed about this leak (more so in my estimation because it gives proof that certain things are working... ie. "terrorists: change tactics now!") as he is/was about the NYT outting the financial monitoring program. REGARDLESS of who the leak is, they should be prosecuted fully. This apparent inconsistency in reactions, IMO, only encourages more leaks in the future and they won't all be "good" leaks.

I'm not into the whole "Bush did it!" BS. Consistencey though, I think would be a good thing. He should be just as pissed about this leak (more so in my estimation because it gives proof that certain things are working... ie. "terrorists: change tactics now!") as he is/was about the NYT outting the financial monitoring program. REGARDLESS of who the leak is, they should be prosecuted fully. This apparent inconsistency in reactions, IMO, only encourages more leaks in the future and they won't all be "good" leaks.

Well, in the rush to condemn someone over this leak, an admission that this adminstration has actually done something positive has sort of back doored into the conversation from some generally critical sources. Most of the discussions of leaks here are initiated by those same sources condemning the actions the leaks describe and the leak outrage just works itself into the threads. It's the weekend and our more excitable members are riding or eating bbq and drinking beverages. Blood will flow come Monday. :)

I guess I'll have to make it more clear since you are obviously a moreon. What makes you believe that these 'leaks' didn't come from the same source as the others? Other than the fact that the information proves our methods are working, it in no way points to the admin. Someone on the inside who has been leaking this info could be doing it for profit with no other motive.

I guess I'll have to make it more clear since you are obviously a moreon. What makes you believe that these 'leaks' didn't come from the same source as the others? Other than the fact that the information proves our methods are working, it in no way points to the admin. Someone on the inside who has been leaking this info could be doing it for profit with no other motive.

That could very well be true but I think the point is that the admin should be equally as outraged and should as vigourously deride, persue and prosecute the leakers as they have with the warrantless surveillance and financial monitoring leaks.

That could very well be true but I think the point is that the admin should be equally as outraged and should as vigourously deride, persue and prosecute the leakers as they have with the warrantless surveillance and financial monitoring leaks.

Agreed. Hang the leakers at dawn.

at least we can then thank god 'n country we are not moving towards the fascism you so outspokenly deny...



That could very well be true but I think the point is that the admin should be equally as outraged and should as vigourously deride, persue and prosecute the leakers as they have with the warrantless surveillance and financial monitoring leaks.

at least we can then thank god 'n country we are not moving towards the fascism you so outspokenly deny...
Yeah, else the leakers would have had the pleasure of a bullet through the back of their heads as would the news paper editors and the opposition party members and.... you probably.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to drive my airplane down to the supermarket.

I guess I'll have to make it more clear since you are obviously a moreon. What makes you believe that these 'leaks' didn't come from the same source as the others? Other than the fact that the information proves our methods are working, it in no way points to the admin. Someone on the inside who has been leaking this info could be doing it for profit with no other motive.

How dense can you be? Or do you just not want to answer the question that was asked? The point is not where the leaks came from the point is that the administration has not said one friggen' thing about this leak unlike the last one where they wanted the Editors of the Times brought up on charges. Silence when they think it helps, loud accusations when it doesn't. Get it now? :mad2:

you are relying on your analogy, but it does not fully apply to the definition of fascism. like democracy, communism, socialism or other forms of governmental philosophies, ultraviolence may be part and parcel of the way the government conducts it's business.
this is certainly the fact with the us on many levels, as it conducts it's primary business of defending the interests of corporate profits from exploiting the resources of any given region at the taxpayers expense.
there are numerous other shared features as well.
this is a philosophical point that cannot be denied, that the gov't of the us has fascist tendencies developing.

Yeah, else the leakers would have had the pleasure of a bullet through the back of their heads as would the news paper editors and the opposition party members and.... you probably.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to drive my airplane down to the supermarket.

Had a nice little brew while watching the Eyetalians beat the Frogs this afternoon in a cool pub in Carrol Gardens, Brooklyn. The name escapes me right now. Oh, what was the question? Forza Azzuri! :D

Yeah, else the leakers would have had the pleasure of a bullet through the back of their heads as would the news paper editors and the opposition party members and.... you probably.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to drive my airplane down to the supermarket.

Jeebus I think I just got ooze from another thread on me. :D

you are relying on your analogy, but it does not fully apply to the definition of fascism. like democracy, communism, socialism or other forms of governmental philosophies, ultraviolence may be part and parcel of the way the government conducts it's business.
this is certainly the fact with the us on many levels, as it conducts it's primary business of defending the interests of corporate profits from exploiting the resources of any given region at the taxpayers expense.
there are numerous other shared features as well.
this is a philosophical point that cannot be denied, that the gov't of the us has fascist tendencies developing.

And you know what a big difference might be? This November we can ALL go to the polls and vote the whole lot of out of office. Really, it will be fun. If you have a democrat in your congressional district vote republican ...if you have a republican that is the incumbant vote democrat...it will be fun. Let us see 500 or new people in office...hold them to what we say...and in 2 years if we don't like what they do...we vote in 500 more. See...that is a choice, that after 1933 the folks in Germany...did not have...

Oh yea...and if you think a fascist state is coming...you best by some guns for the revolution and action against...but...on second thought...are you for or against gun ownership???

but I do enjoy you righties sliding scale morality. hypocrisy worn this openly on ones sleeve is always a treat.

how about when the military explained how they got to Zarqawi. Didn't exposing their methods compromise using the same at a later date?

BTW the Eyetalians sucked. Got outplayed for 110 of the 120 minutes and won on a single PK. What a way to ruin a great World Cup.

life nra member, ranked marksman at 12 yr.s old, .22 savage-stevens match rifle, bushnell scope, benchrest at 100 yd.s, star targets.

field archer as well, able to hit the heart of a rabbit...




And you know what a big difference might be? This November we can ALL go to the polls and vote the whole lot of out of office. Really, it will be fun. If you have a democrat in your congressional district vote republican ...if you have a republican that is the incumbant vote democrat...it will be fun. Let us see 500 or new people in office...hold them to what we say...and in 2 years if we don't like what they do...we vote in 500 more. See...that is a choice, that after 1933 the folks in Germany...did not have...

Oh yea...and if you think a fascist state is coming...you best by some guns for the revolution and action against...but...on second thought...are you for or against gun ownership???

I guess I'll have to make it more clear since you are obviously a moreon. What makes you believe that these 'leaks' didn't come from the same source as the others? Other than the fact that the information proves our methods are working, it in no way points to the admin. Someone on the inside who has been leaking this info could be doing it for profit with no other motive.

as i said, dense.

i don't care where the leak came from. the question is, why aren't you and the rest of the rightwing f-tards up in arms about a leak that has compromised our intelligence gathering and national security? if this leak does indeed come from the same source, why aren't you and all the right wing f-tards screaming for the NY Daily News to be charged with treason, have their editor boiled in oil, etc., the way they've been attacking the NYTimes? why is your hero the Star Trek geek Caoptain so silent?

you know the reason why. because this leak, no matter who the source was, portrays the administration in a positive light. you don't care about leaks, what gets you guys all pi$$ed off is any news that makes your Boy George look bad.

life nra member


There is SO much irony in that statement.

sorry if you find this a stretch of your imagination, this may well be the true irony.
hope this does not exceed your capacity for irony as well, i am a sierra club member also. add knife collector to that. glad to expand your world view.

but this thread digresses with the last post, i answered one question to prove there is diversity among those in opposition the the bush syndicate, some would reveal not being aware of this, based on their limited exposure to diversity, and resultant prejudices, i guess.




There is SO much irony in that statement.

sorry if you find this a stretch of your imagination, this may well be the true irony.
hope this does not exceed your capacity for irony as well, i am a sierra club member also. add knife collector to that. glad to expand your world view.

but this thread digresses with the last post, i answered one question to prove there is diversity among those in opposition the the bush syndicate, some would reveal not being aware of this, based on their limited exposure to diversity, and resultant prejudices, i guess.


Even more ironic is that the irony is lost on you. Maybe someone else will be kind enough to point it out.

i am lost on much more than just irony at times, to be sure. guess i assumed you were commenting on my nra as not corelating to my political views, sorry for my response and it's terse nature if that be the case...

if i need wait for someone kind enough to point out what i miss i may well be sunk.

cheers,
O.




Even more ironic is that the irony is lost on you. Maybe someone else will be kind enough to point it out.

but I do enjoy you righties sliding scale morality. hypocrisy worn this openly on ones sleeve is always a treat.

how about when the military explained how they got to Zarqawi. Didn't exposing their methods compromise using the same at a later date?

BTW the Eyetalians sucked. Got outplayed for 110 of the 120 minutes and won on a single PK. What a way to ruin a great World Cup.

To them a dirty Republican is one who is stupid enough to get caught. Sort of like how the Whitehouse was outa step with the SCOTUS about their little concentration camp in GITMO. What the hell have Dick Cheney and Rummy been smokin'? We all know GWB is too stupid to run a business much less a country. What's their excuse???

Sort of like how GWB was too busy clearing brush on the ranch to notice there was a terror threat, even though the document was titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack within the United States!"

As Carlos Mencia says "Deet da Dee"