Okay, now before you guys all hassel me for asking this i am going to say that i do have a little bit of background on this company as they are pretty much based 20 miles from my house and my aunt used to work for them but i am just wondering, What makes Serotta so special that they can validate their extremely high prices? I mean by no mean am i saying that serotta makes a bad bike in fact i know that they make beutiful bikes, but what is it about them that allows them to cost so much more than most other companies?

Okay, now before you guys all hassel me for asking this i am going to say that i do have a little bit of background on this company as they are pretty much based 20 miles from my house and my aunt used to work for them but i am just wondering, What makes Serotta so special that they can validate their extremely high prices? I mean by no mean am i saying that serotta makes a bad bike in fact i know that they make beutiful bikes, but what is it about them that allows them to cost so much more than most other companies?

they make great quality bikes for rich, slow, old dudes with lots of disposable income. The higher cost is in part a marketing ploy to differentiate their brand from lesser priced bikes. Production is probably much more limited and labor intensive than other brands which means higher prices.

Excellent craftsmanship, design, quality control. I think Serotta's attention to fit is the best in the business. Very expensive as well. Kind of a reputation as a bling bicycle for the rich, slow and old crowd. I don't really buy into that.

I'd buy one but I'm not over 50 yet :D

Expensive compared to what? I looked at and rode a lot of bikes before I purchased my Serotta Fierte Steel. Serotta was not a brand that I had considered before I began my search. I actually thought it was a good buy for the price and I am a tight man with a dollar.

I agree that their top-of-the-line frames are very expensive. However, compare the price of a Coeur d'Acier (enough of a kick-ass bike for anybody) to those from "mainstream" makers like Trek, Litespeed, Specialized etc.....the Serotta is a damn good deal. Then consider that you can get the Serotta custom made at that same price. Even better deal. Then compare the Serotta to the cost that Pinarellos, Colnagos, and Merckx are fetching these days. Suddenly the Serotta becomes a screaming good deal. In fact, Serottas are becoming a better deal every year. You just have to look a little further down their range and realize that "mid-range" Serottas like the Coeur d'Acier are great bikes that give up nothing to any competitor in overall performance and value.

The only Serottas that are for fat old rich guys are the super-high-end frames. Look further down their line and you'll find very competitive, high quality frames at good prices with enough raw performance to satisfy anybody. I have two older Serottas: a Colorado TG (which could be considered the ancestor of the Fierte) and an Atlanta. I really like both bikes a lot (especially the Atlanta...which has to be one of the best all around road bikes ever made) and there's no way that anybody can ever convince me that they were over-priced.

they make great quality bikes for rich, slow, old dudes with lots of disposable income. The higher cost is in part a marketing ploy to differentiate their brand from lesser priced bikes. Production is probably much more limited and labor intensive than other brands which means higher prices.

I don't think you have to be a rich old guy to afford a Serotta, as some of their "entry" level models seem to be priced similarly with others in this crowded industry.

Serotta's are nice bikes but they cost as much as the big boys like MOOTS, Colnago, Parlee and Time. Yet, serotta bikes cannot match the build quality, craftsmanship and racing geometry of these manufacturers. Compare a legend ti to a MOOTS Vamoots SL and you will see what I am talking about. The welds and build quality on a lengend ti look as if they were built by autistic workers when compared to the Moots frames. But the real test is in the ride quality. These other builders and others make frames that are fast, light, stiff, durable and yet vertically compliant. In contrast, the serotta frames that I have ridden are relatively heavy and flexy.

Serotta does make some very comfortable and plush bikes. If your riding style is more recreational and touring then serotta may be a good choice. But, if you are more of a crit or racer type then serotta isn't the best choice.

Another thing that bothers me about serotta is that they are really dishonest about the whole custom thing. Custom does have a place in cycling and there are certainly riders out there who can benefit from a custom geometry. But, with serotta you do not have a choice. You pay for custom regardless of whether you want it or not, and that's dishonest IMO. With top frame builders like MOOTS or Colnago and others, you pay an extra fee for custom. So, you have the choice of paying for custom or not. Also remember that custom frames are really just a bunch of tubes welded together. The geometry hasn't been optimized for anything - no wind tunnel testing, no stiffness testing, no aerodynamics design, no history of racing. And selling a custom frame would be nightmare since there aren't many guys out there who are willing to pay for a frame that was built for someone else.

If you are an old guy whose bones ache when bending over on a road bike and who is mostly a recreational rider and who doesn't race then serotta would be a good choice. Otherwise, you would be better off looking elsewhere.

:cool:

Serotta's are nice bikes but they cost as much as the big boys like MOOTS, Colnago, Parlee and Time. Yet, serotta bikes cannot match the build quality, craftsmanship and racing geometry of these manufacturers. Compare a legend ti to a MOOTS Vamoots SL and you will see what I am talking about. The welds and build quality on a lengend ti look as if they were built by autistic workers when compared to the Moots frames. But the real test is in the ride quality. These other builders and others make frames that are fast, light, stiff, durable and yet vertically compliant. In contrast, the serotta frames that I have ridden are relatively heavy and flexy.

Serotta does make some very comfortable and plush bikes. If your riding style is more recreational and touring then serotta may be a good choice. But, if you are more of a crit or racer type then serotta isn't the best choice.

Another thing that bothers me about serotta is that they are really dishonest about the whole custom thing. Custom does have a place in cycling and there are certainly riders out there who can benefit from a custom geometry. But, with serotta you do not have a choice. You pay for custom regardless of whether you want it or not, and that's dishonest IMO. With top frame builders like MOOTS or Colnago and others, you pay an extra fee for custom. So, you have the choice of paying for custom or not. Also remember that custom frames are really just a bunch of tubes welded together. The geometry hasn't been optimized for anything - no wind tunnel testing, no stiffness testing, no aerodynamics design, no history of racing. And selling a custom frame would be nightmare since there aren't many guys out there who are willing to pay for a frame that was built for someone else.

If you are an old guy whose bones ache when bending over on a road bike and who is mostly a recreational rider and who doesn't race then serotta would be a good choice. Otherwise, you would be better off looking elsewhere.

:cool:

I always scratch my head when people say you can't race on a Serotta, I assume they must be new to cycling or just not know what they are talking about.

When I started racing, 25 years ago, we all of dreamed of having Serotta's. All those wins during the olympics, the 7-11 team, Coors lite, Davis Phinney, Eric Heiden, Schuler,

I am only 38, I don't own one (yet) but I know many guys that do. They are not fat or old, but they can drop every guy on this message board....on their Serottas

I don't think you have to be a rich old guy to afford a Serotta, as some of their "entry" level models seem to be priced similarly with others in this crowded industry.

I was generalizing...I nearly got one of the lugged steel Serottas but would have needed a custom and the Colnago MXL I got instead was cheaper as a result so I went with that. I guess Colnagos are another slow old rich guy bike. I qualify as slow and old anyway.

I always scratch my head when people say you can't race on a Serotta, I assume they must be new to cycling or just not know what they are talking about.

When I started racing, 25 years ago, we all of dreamed of having Serotta's. All those wins during the olympics, the 7-11 team, Coors lite, Davis Phinney, Eric Heiden, Schuler,

I am only 38, I don't own one (yet) but I know many guys that do. They are not fat or old, but they can drop every guy on this message board....on their Serottas

+1

Serotta's are race bikes pure and simple. That is why for years the pro peleton was full of Serottas rebadged as colnago's, merkcx, pinarello etc. And as far as quality, more hours go into shaping and butting one tube on a Legend ti, than the whole time it takes to make one vamoots.

+1 And as far as quality, more hours go into shaping and butting one tube on a Legend ti, than the whole time it takes to make one vamoots.

I am not sure how much time it takes to butt a Serotta tube or to make a Vamoots frame but I think your statement is completely nonsense. :confused:

From a bike manufacturing standpoint, quality has a little to do with the amount of time butting a tube, as a butted tube can come out to be good or bad depending on tooling tolerances, material treatment, process, etc. Besides, like a butted Serotta frame, a Vamoots 6/4 frame also uses double butted tubing so I do not know what are you trying to imply here. With that said, I think butting a frame tube is a waste of time and money not to mention the increased risk of the frame being easily dented and buckled. From a performance standpoint, I would rather put my money on a set of strong and lighweight wheels than on a butted tubular frame.

Cheers!

I always scratch my head when people say you can't race on a Serotta, I assume they must be new to cycling or just not know what they are talking about.

When I started racing, 25 years ago, we all of dreamed of having Serotta's. All those wins during the olympics, the 7-11 team, Coors lite, Davis Phinney, Eric Heiden, Schuler,

I am only 38, I don't own one (yet) but I know many guys that do. They are not fat or old, but they can drop every guy on this message board....on their Serottas
Regarding LiteSpeeder: Someone over on the Serotta forum pi$$ed in his cereal when he went off on one of his little diatribes about how Serotta was for old, fat rich guys and you can't race on them, so he's had a vendetta against them for a while now. Maybe someday he'll learn how to articulate his opinions as opinions and understand that others may disagree with them.

We all like bikes and we all have our favorites. Mine happens to be Serotta.

Serotta does make some very comfortable and plush bikes. If your riding style is more recreational and touring then serotta may be a good choice. But, if you are more of a crit or racer type then serotta isn't the best choice.
* * *
If you are an old guy whose bones ache when bending over on a road bike and who is mostly a recreational rider and who doesn't race then serotta would be a good choice. Otherwise, you would be better off looking elsewhere.

:cool:I'm an old slow guy, so I won't argue on that. But before it had the misfortune of being sold to me, my 1995 Serotta Atlanta Concept was ridden by a member of the Ukrainian team in the 1995 Tour duPont. Just a data point. Anybody know how different the geometry of the Atlanta is from the stock Fierte?

I'm an old slow guy, so I won't argue on that. But before it had the misfortune of being sold to me, my 1995 Serotta Atlanta Concept was ridden by a member of the Ukrainian team in the 1995 Tour duPont. Just a data point. Anybody know how different the geometry of the Atlanta is from the stock Fierte?
According to what I've been able to find, the head tube angle is a little slacker on the Fierte, thus the top tube is a wee shorter. The BB drop on the Atlanta was around 7.5, whereas the Fierte's is 8CM. Aside from the sloping top tube, most other geo and dimensions are the same.

If you give me a specific frame size, can give you the particulars.

Wow, is that true? "Full of" Serottas rebadged as Colnagos Merckx and Pinas? Some evidence? Note, has to be "full of".

+1

Serotta's are race bikes pure and simple. That is why for years the pro peleton was full of Serottas rebadged as colnago's, merkcx, pinarello etc. And as far as quality, more hours go into shaping and butting one tube on a Legend ti, than the whole time it takes to make one vamoots.

Everyone's lower end models are cheap. Not surprising. But we are talking about high end models here.

I agree that their top-of-the-line frames are very expensive. However, compare the price of a Coeur d'Acier (enough of a kick-ass bike for anybody) to those from "mainstream" makers like Trek, Litespeed, Specialized etc.....the Serotta is a damn good deal. Then consider that you can get the Serotta custom made at that same price. Even better deal. Then compare the Serotta to the cost that Pinarellos, Colnagos, and Merckx are fetching these days. Suddenly the Serotta becomes a screaming good deal. In fact, Serottas are becoming a better deal every year. You just have to look a little further down their range and realize that "mid-range" Serottas like the Coeur d'Acier are great bikes that give up nothing to any competitor in overall performance and value.

The only Serottas that are for fat old rich guys are the super-high-end frames. Look further down their line and you'll find very competitive, high quality frames at good prices with enough raw performance to satisfy anybody. I have two older Serottas: a Colorado TG (which could be considered the ancestor of the Fierte) and an Atlanta. I really like both bikes a lot (especially the Atlanta...which has to be one of the best all around road bikes ever made) and there's no way that anybody can ever convince me that they were over-priced.

Everyone's lower end models are cheap. Not surprising. But we are talking about high end models here.

I recently started looking for a new bike. My requirements were

Ti frame
S&S couplers
Custom

Serrotta, Moots, IF.....all the within a few hundred dollars of each other. With all of their quality issues I would not touch a litespeed

Wow, is that true? "Full of" Serottas rebadged as Colnagos Merckx and Pinas? Some evidence? Note, has to be "full of".

Your evidence sir.

http://www.serotta.com/forum/showpost.php?p=218496&postcount=3

...

Serotta does make some very comfortable and plush bikes. If your riding style is more recreational and touring then serotta may be a good choice. But, if you are more of a crit or racer type then serotta isn't the best choice...

:cool:

well, a guy named Pascal Richard won '96 the Olympic Road Race in Atlanta on a "Fausto Coppi" labelled Serotta Legend...

a typical recreational use.. :D

they make great quality bikes for rich, slow, old dudes with lots of disposable income.

Hey BJII. I resemble that remark :D with the exception of the rich and disposable parts.
KJ

Hey BJII. I resemble that remark :D with the exception of the rich and disposable parts.
KJ

as do I...as do I.... :D

as do I...as do I.... :D


I'm not sure my wife would like being called a slow old dude either. I'll let you take it up with her next time we do the cruiser ride.

My wife and I both made the jump from stiff aluminum bikes to custom fit Serottas and couldn't be happier. The credit card bill was a little steep that month, but that was easy to get over once riding the new bikes. We bought the bikes with a plan to ride them for at least the next 15 years. So far we are 6 years into that plan and have put many a happy mile on them. 9 more years before I get to go shopping again. Oh well....

i know i might be wrong but the way i see it is serotta can make any kind of bike. Alot of Serotta's customers dont get race bikes and they choose serotta so they can have a custom geometry bike and choose serotta to have a bike that fits differently than a colnago, orbea ect. So i guess a lot of the serottas you see are non- race geo. but I bet serotta can make an awsome race bike. I really like serotta even though i never have owned one. they look pretty cool and have a high quality finish. sorry if im wrong and i dont know what im talking about

serotta also has had sierra nevada riding their frames last year. Serotta sponsores many teams this year and many athletes. Serottas have even been used in the tour. Serotta can defenatly make a race bike.

Everyone's lower end models are cheap. Not surprising. But we are talking about high end models here.
Serotta's "lower end" models are high end. With the exception of the Fierte, the difference is in the materials used, not the level of craftsmanship or engineering. The Cour d'Acier is as good as any steel bike in the world, if you have it built as a race bike, although you might see it as Serotta's "lower end" model when you flip through their catalog.

My colorado III is my race bike, and I sometimes get funny looks at races, as if I'm racing some piece of expensive jewelry. The reality is that my bike is usually one of the cheaper bikes in the field, surrounded by dura ace 10-clad TCR teams, Madones and six13's with boutique wheels. I bought my CIII because it seemed like a decent deal- $1400 for one of the best steel frames out there from a company with as much racing history as anyone in the business.

What makes Cour d'Acier a good bike and the Fierte not so good? I believe it is in the tubes and custom vs stock fit. Im curious what other issues there may be between the two and ultimately the difference in ride and weight.

Serotta's are nice bikes but they cost as much as the big boys like MOOTS, Colnago, Parlee and Time. Yet, serotta bikes cannot match the build quality, craftsmanship and racing geometry of these manufacturers. Compare a legend ti to a MOOTS Vamoots SL and you will see what I am talking about. The welds and build quality on a lengend ti look as if they were built by autistic workers when compared to the Moots frames. But the real test is in the ride quality. These other builders and others make frames that are fast, light, stiff, durable and yet vertically compliant. In contrast, the serotta frames that I have ridden are relatively heavy and flexy.

Serotta does make some very comfortable and plush bikes. If your riding style is more recreational and touring then serotta may be a good choice. But, if you are more of a crit or racer type then serotta isn't the best choice.

Another thing that bothers me about serotta is that they are really dishonest about the whole custom thing. Custom does have a place in cycling and there are certainly riders out there who can benefit from a custom geometry. But, with serotta you do not have a choice. You pay for custom regardless of whether you want it or not, and that's dishonest IMO. With top frame builders like MOOTS or Colnago and others, you pay an extra fee for custom. So, you have the choice of paying for custom or not. Also remember that custom frames are really just a bunch of tubes welded together. The geometry hasn't been optimized for anything - no wind tunnel testing, no stiffness testing, no aerodynamics design, no history of racing. And selling a custom frame would be nightmare since there aren't many guys out there who are willing to pay for a frame that was built for someone else.

If you are an old guy whose bones ache when bending over on a road bike and who is mostly a recreational rider and who doesn't race then serotta would be a good choice. Otherwise, you would be better off looking elsewhere.

:cool:

that you were just opinionated....now I'm sure you are a troll.

I've never read such unsupportable clap trap on this site.

You really have quite an imagination.

Len

that you were just opinionated....now I'm sure you are a troll.

I've never read such unsupportable clap trap on this site.

You really have quite an imagination.

Len
He's the same way on several other forums that he has since been banned from.

He's the same way on several other forums that he has since been banned from.

thanks Dave

Len

I am not sure how much time it takes to butt a Serotta tube or to make a Vamoots frame but I think your statement is completely nonsense. :confused:

From a bike manufacturing standpoint, quality has a little to do with the amount of time butting a tube, as a butted tube can come out to be good or bad depending on tooling tolerances, material treatment, process, etc. Besides, like a butted Serotta frame, a Vamoots 6/4 frame also uses double butted tubing so I do not know what are you trying to imply here. With that said, I think butting a frame tube is a waste of time and money not to mention the increased risk of the frame being easily dented and buckled. From a performance standpoint, I would rather put my money on a set of strong and lighweight wheels than on a butted tubular frame.

Cheers!
I think he was referring to the swaging process Serrota specs in their tubes. Both Moots and Serrota use butted tubes, as do most high end bikes, but Serotta uses swaged tubes in their higher end models to add stiffness in specific areas. Swaging is designed by Serotta but done by their tubing supplier to Serotta specs.

Saying that Serotta has no history in racing is like saying Ford or Chevy have no history in racing.

Most of Serotta's bikes are not pure race bikes. But their history is in fact particularly race-oriented and the old 7-Eleven team and Coors Light team rode Serottas to a lot of success.

This does not mention all the Serottas which were built to order for many pros and painted to be something else. This rarely happens anymore because bike brands today prevent it by having proprietery shapes which no small builder can duplicate. Think Specialized or Trek.

My Serotta CIII is a terrific bike and I plan on getting another someday. The next one will be built with a more racing-oriented geometry.

I am sitting here at my computer wearing a Serotta t-shirt, funny I wish I could afford a Serotta. I am saving my pennies and then I am going to get the CXII in steel.
Yes, they cost but the FIT and tubes are tops...worth the price for know how.

[QUOTE=bcm119] With the exception of the Fierte, the difference is in the materials used, not the level of craftsmanship or engineering.

I'm interested in the Fierte steel--what does this statement mean? Is the engineering / craftsmanship on the Fierte inferior?

I am no expert but I do own the bike. It is a quality bike for sure and quality materials. As I recall with pedals my bike weighs in at 21 lbs and so a bit heavy. If you plan to race this may not be your bike. If you want a good ride on a bike that will last a long time AND the stock size choices are a good physical fit then I would say go for it. If you want a custom fit bike then would suggest you look at other options by Serotta or others.

I've never read such unsupportable clap trap on this site.

Len

Look harder :D