Doubts cast on Vinokourov & Kashechkin

Finally someone is saying what a number of us have been thinking for quite a while...

From Cyclingnews, Saturday 30 September:

Astana riders Alexandre Vinokourov and his most valuable domestique Andrei Kashechkin have decided to call it a day for this season after the Züri-Metzgete, the pair announced. Even though the two could not participate in the 2006 Tour de France, they made the Vuelta a España a tough battle for Alejandro Valverde, and managed to turn the race around in the final week, to take home the maillot oro.

It is this achievement that French trainer Frédéric Grappe questions now in Vélo Magazine, saying that the physical progress Vinokourov achieved since the Tour de France last year was practically impossible. "He would have gained, in one year, between 35 and 40 watts on the verge of the anaerobic threshold? That's nearly impossible on that level of training. Even the best training in the world would not lead to this kind of performance increase," Grappe told the French magazine, speaking of those last two mountain stages where the Kazakhstani reversed the overall classification.

"This remarkably fast performance imrpovement in the mountains needs to be explained precisely as to the methodology (of training) used. Moreover, this sudden explosion of potential in the mountains comes late - at the age of 33. Something's not right there," he continued.

"We are entering a new dimension to which only a few riders have the 'key'. The 2006 Vuelta leads to an irritating assessment. They're still racing as fast in the mountains; the only change concerns the incapacity of a team as a whole to control and regulate the race from a strong tempo in the first part of the climbs onward. This year, the main leaders fought it out on their own... except maybe at Astana."

Why is it that every time someone puts out a good performane, someone has to come out and throw a bunch of numbers out and claim they doped? How is it even fair to say Vino and Kashechkin were drugged up, while everyone else is clean?

Granted, he was always a very classy rider, aggressive, powerful etc, but he was never even in the ballpark compared to what he produced consistently at this year’s Vuelta. What's even more surprising is the fact that he was looking for parking in the first mountain stage, only to come back in the third week and literally ride away from everyone.
Call me cynic, but every morning when I checked the news at Cyclingnews I was expecting him to be involved in another big doping scandal. I wish I believed in him, but I'm afraid I simply cannot. But that's just my opinion and this is a blog so I thought I'd air it.

As I recall, Vino is always looking for parking on at least one mountain stage, usually the first one. He usually counteracts that later with a few crazy attacks...that's what I love about the guy. He's totally willing to try and pull off something totally nuts. I think it's a combination of Vino being stronger and someone like Valverde not having the legs in the second half. It's much easier to put out big efforts early in the race; Vino was able to do it more than the others in the final week.

From the same article:

He did not, however, explain how he estimated these figures.

I still don't understand how he managed to get away with blowing off doping control.

maybe he was just angry at Spain, specifically O. Puerto, for ruining his entire year of racing and their Tour was the perfect place to vent his frustrations.

:idea:

I still don't understand how he managed to get away with blowing off doping control.Maybe it's because he didn't blow off doping control, and instead, doping control screwed up. The testers arrived for an unannounced test, and shock of shocks, the racers have already gone to the race. That's not blowing off anything. Why people want to see Vino punished for the failings of the testers is hard for me to see.

Granted, he was always a very classy rider, aggressive, powerful etc, but he was never even in the ballpark compared to what he produced consistently at this year’s Vuelta. What's even more surprising is the fact that he was looking for parking in the first mountain stage, only to come back in the third week and literally ride away from everyone.
Call me cynic, but every morning when I checked the news at Cyclingnews I was expecting him to be involved in another big doping scandal. I wish I believed in him, but I'm afraid I simply cannot. But that's just my opinion and this is a blog so I thought I'd air it.

Never in the ball park?The guy podiumed at the TDF against the two strongest riders of the last decade.

Vino is an extremely strong rider.However,he seemed to always do crazy stuff like attack only to blow up and get caught.Then immediately attack again.It seems that he delivered on what he said earlier in the season pre-OP,that he was going to be a little more conservative and attack more strategically.

Can anyone win a race anymore without being accused of doping?The guy may have been.I'm just not going to worry about it until there is proof.

"Can anyone win a race anymore without being accused of doping?"

Nope

"Can anyone win a race anymore without being accused of doping?"

Nope


With good reason - there are riders who are doping and still winning.

This whole year was a SHAM, a complete farce at the 3 grand tours.

Discovery Channel finally looked clean, as they were shelled off the back in all the tours.

Disco got a 5th in the Giro and 4 guys in the Top 12 at the Vuelta. Not bad, just not their usual dominant performance.

that Vino was a crappy, clean racer and now has started doping with some secret super drug that no one else has.

That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Just what the world needs: Another whiny Frenchman.

that Vino was a crappy, clean racer and now has started doping with some secret super drug that no one else has.

That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Just what the world needs: Another whiny Frenchman.

I have to admit I dont' get it either. Just as likely would be that he was doping all along and maybe others have cut back b/c of fear of getting caught, etc.

The most suspicious thing is that he wasn't really showing any good form in the build-up to the Vuelta, was somewhat good early in the race and then rather suddenly was on stellar form, clearly being the strongest rider in the race for the last couple of weeks. It gives a wiff of blood doping but little more...

I have to admit I dont' get it either. Just as likely would be that he was doping all along and maybe others have cut back b/c of fear of getting caught, etc.

The most suspicious thing is that he wasn't really showing any good form in the build-up to the Vuelta, was somewhat good early in the race and then rather suddenly was on stellar form, clearly being the strongest rider in the race for the last couple of weeks. It gives a wiff of blood doping but little more...

I hadn't really considered this but I like the symmetry. Vino gets screwed out the TdF and we know he's a super agressive guy--so when the others cut back on the dope (sissies!!!), he keeps going full guns.

To the bold go the spoils. My hat is off.

Question, is it possible that, not having raced for a couple of months, he and his team were fresher than the other teams? Could having a team that worked with Vino instead of aginst him have anything to do with this? Could they not have just gone right in to training for another peak for the Vuelta as soon as they were banned from the TDF? This certianly would be the reaction I would expect from a man (Vino) who NEVER admits defeat. His team has been through alot, and I think they as a whole have developed a "Never Surrender" attitude. Combine this team with Vino's ability, give them more rest and pi$$ them off big time and it might be understandable that they won.

With good reason - there are riders who are doping and still winning.

This whole year was a SHAM, a complete farce at the 3 grand tours.

Discovery Channel finally looked clean, as they were shelled off the back in all the tours.Now there's a win-win proposition. If you win, you're doping. How to prove you're clean? Get shelled off the back.

Reminiscent of a witch trial, where if the accused floats (and lives), she's a witch (and is put to death), and if she sinks (and drowns), she's clean (but dead). Nicely done.

You guys need to look back at Vino's past before you start throwing around judgement.
He's always been strong. He finished 3rd in both ITT's at the TdF last year, and rode away from everyone on the Champs. He has won PN twice. Won LBL. Podiumed at the Tour. Olympic silver medalist. Almost won worlds twice. And who were LA and Beloki chasing when Joseba almost killed himself? The guy is one of the top 5 best cyclist in the world right now. Maybe top three. Why is anyone surprised that he won? I knew at the start that it would be between those two guys, and I know who is a much better ITT rider than Valverde. So my money was on Vino from the start but I expected him to win by a much bigger margin.