So I've taken the plunge and am looking to start racing 'cross this season - first race is in two weeks and my goal is to finish.

Anyhow, I'm struggling with my dismount and am looking for some advice-

Right now I'm running a pair of Time ATAC's in the 13 deg. float setting. Whenever I try to do a leg-through dismount I get "stuck" on the pedal. I can't seem to rotate my weighted left foot enough to disengage. I'm certain that this is a technique issue - as many people race Times - but is it worth switching to a 4-6 deg. SPD/egg beater style pedal? Or is there something that I'm missing that will make the dismount easier?

I'm a Noob as well with the same problem...I think the key is too unweight your left foot by putting your right hand on the top tube and pushing up a bit. This makes it easier to disengage from the left pedal and you can then put your right foot on the ground and take off running...in theory anyway...I usually fall on the ground! :D Then again...I've seen riders dismount with both hands still on the handlebars, so maybe it is an issue with the pedals. I know you can adjust the float on Eggs, not sure about Times though...

I just started 'cross and have spd pedals. I have them adjusted so that I can unclip fairly easily. There were a few times a couple of weeks ago when I was dismounting and didn't unclip right away but I realized that in last Sunday's race that I'm unclipping without even thinking about it.
I don't know if the release tension on the Time pedals is adjustable, but if it is then I would adjust them. Beyond that it's just a matter of practice. Soon you'll be doing it without even thinking.

My problem is the remount. I can't seem to get rid of the stutter step that I have. I think that I'm afraid to make the full commitment to hop up and remount. I'll keep working on it, although I'm not sure what to try to improve.

Right now I'm running a pair of Time ATAC's in the 13 deg. float setting. Whenever I try to do a leg-through dismount I get "stuck" on the pedal. I can't seem to rotate my weighted left foot enough to disengage. I'm certain that this is a technique issue - as many people race Times - but is it worth switching to a 4-6 deg. SPD/egg beater style pedal? Or is there something that I'm missing that will make the dismount easier?

Time ATACs are great pedals for cross. With some practice, you should be able to disengage the cleat with no problem. Try some experiments while not moving (or moving very slow). See what happens.

For the record, I can dismount with right hand on the top tube or the hoods/tops. It's a matter of twisting your foot at the proper time. For dismounts, I'm usually unweighting the pedal foot while unclipping but I don't really need to. I currently use Eggs but I used to use ATACs with similar results.

Right now I'm running a pair of Time ATAC's in the 13 deg. float setting. Whenever I try to do a leg-through dismount I get "stuck" on the pedal. I can't seem to rotate my weighted left foot enough to disengage. I'm certain that this is a technique issue - as many people race Times - but is it worth switching to a 4-6 deg. SPD/egg beater style pedal? Or is there something that I'm missing that will make the dismount easier?
This could be as much equipment as technique. I run a pair of the old-style ATACs (the ones that look like a bar of soap), not sure what the cleats are on this one, but make sure the cleats are on the appropriate shoe so that you have the lower release angle. Even so, I have mine canted inwards a little, to decrease the release angle even more.

This works for me, and I don't put my hand on the top tube to unweight my pedal during the dismount.

As far as other pedals, I haven't tried Egg Beaters, but I started cx season last year with some nashbar spd's, and even with the tension set all the way down, I still had problems unclipping.

one of the best pedals I found for cross was the eggbeater by crankbros. it has a set spring . basically the pedal is a spring . you can get dismount without the worry of your foot geting stuck in the pedal. I have used the atacs and I must say the spring wears out to the point were you have to really twist your foot to get out.

I was taught if you're going to dismount with your leg through the frame that you should unclip your left foot and just set it on the pedal. have it unclipped and resting in the arch of your foot. nothing worse then flying towards a barrier, going to dismount and your left leg is still clipped in.

nothing worse then flying towards a barrier, going to dismount and your left leg is still clipped in.
what about flying along, going to dismount, lifting the bike with your left foot that never unclipped, and embedding the teeth of your big chainring firmly in your achilles tendon?

That would be bad. Possibly even worse than trying to remount only to MISS and have your suck-azz spd's dig into your shin. Not that I would know about that.....wanna see my scar?

what about flying along, going to dismount, lifting the bike with your left foot that never unclipped, and embedding the teeth of your big chainring firmly in your achilles tendon?

been there. done that!

Right now I'm running a pair of Time ATAC's in the 13 deg. float setting. Whenever I try to do a leg-through dismount I get "stuck" on the pedal.

This is how I was taught to dismount as well. However, almost no one does the step thru anymore. Just step off behind the left foot and maybe it will solve your problem?

I was taught if you're going to dismount with your leg through the frame that you should unclip your left foot and just set it on the pedal. have it unclipped and resting in the arch of your foot.

Ah, the great debate (other than tubie vs. clincher, ATAC vs. Eggs, same size vs. size down, Avid Shorties vs. Pauls, Campy vs. Shimano, etc.).

AdamHM sez unclip before the dismount. Almost everyone else sez unclip when you dismount. I do the latter to good effect. I biffed the barriers once in a race and it cost me exactly one place. I think the biff had more to do with coming in too hot and dismounting too close to the barrier than whether I was unclipped or not.

Do what works for you. I worry more about sliding off the pedal on bumpy terrain when unclipped than not being able to unclip.

This is how I was taught to dismount as well. However, almost no one does the step thru anymore. Just step off behind the left foot and maybe it will solve your problem?

Wha???

Foot though on running barriers. Foot behind on run-ups. Look at the pros.

Wha???

Foot though on running barriers. Foot behind on run-ups. Look at the pros.

Yeah, yeah, I know that's the conventional wisdom.

I may be mistaken, but the pros are exactly who I was thinking of. My impression is most pros don't actually do the step-thru anymore. Maybe they do it so fluidly that I'm just thinking they don't. I'll have to pay more attention.

Anyway, I've not being doing the step thru even on high speed barriers and it doesn't seem to really matter, except that you can dismount a bit later (or at least start to dismount later).

I just went and looked at the GP Sven Nijs from last year and on high speed barriers on the flat I didn't see anyone do the step-thru. I only watched a couple of laps but Nys, Dlask, Franzoi, Commeyne were all just throwing their leg behind the saddle and stepping off in one fluid motion behind their left foot. They were not doing the step-thru.

Yeah, yeah, I know that's the conventional wisdom.

I may be mistaken, but the pros are exactly who I was thinking of. My impression is most pros don't actually do the step-thru anymore. Maybe they do it so fluidly that I'm just thinking they don't. I'll have to pay more attention.

Anyway, I've not being doing the step thru even on high speed barriers and it doesn't seem to really matter, except that you can dismount a bit later (or at least start to dismount later).

I just went and looked at the GP Sven Nijs from last year and on high speed barriers on the flat I didn't see anyone do the step-thru. I only watched a couple of laps but Nys, Dlask, Franzoi, Commeyne were all just throwing their leg behind the saddle and stepping off in one fluid motion behind their left foot. They were not doing the step-thru.

Well, by all means if the pros do it, it must be the right technique! (Not.)

Correct technique is step-through unless you're dismounting uphill. Whether or not that works for you is something entirely different.

Correct technique is step-through unless you're dismounting uphill. Whether or not that works for you is something entirely different.

Can someone explain why the step-through is the "correct" technique? I've never had anyone provide a legitimate explanation as to why it is any better.

Can someone explain why the step-through is the "correct" technique? I've never had anyone provide a legitimate explanation as to why it is any better.

Because USA Cycling says so!

http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=1145

Honestly, I don't know. It is just the classic technique. It could be that it brings you one step closer to the barrier, continuing with forward motion instead of hopping back as with a leg behind dismount. It could also be that it's easier to control the bike with your body in this manner. If you think about it, when you're stepping off the bike you're planting your right foot on a solid, non-moving surface, while your bike still has forward momentum. It would be more likely for your bike to ride away from you, so to speak.

Whoever "invented" cross and it's technique (be it he, she or they) is probably dead, so we may never have an answer. :wink:

I just started 'cross and have spd pedals. I have them adjusted so that I can unclip fairly easily. There were a few times a couple of weeks ago when I was dismounting and didn't unclip right away but I realized that in last Sunday's race that I'm unclipping without even thinking about it.
I don't know if the release tension on the Time pedals is adjustable, but if it is then I would adjust them. Beyond that it's just a matter of practice. Soon you'll be doing it without even thinking.

My problem is the remount. I can't seem to get rid of the stutter step that I have. I think that I'm afraid to make the full commitment to hop up and remount. I'll keep working on it, although I'm not sure what to try to improve.

His problem with the pedals seems to be too much float - can't turn his ankle enough to get out without an un-natural movement. Might be a reason to pre-unclip, though I don't usually feel the need with my spd's.

As for the remount just pretend you're stealing a bike from in front of the 7-11. :thumbsup:

Ron

It is just the classic technique.

Yes, no doubt, but if no one at the highest end of the sport is doing it anymore what's that say? Probably that there was no advantage in it and possible a disadvantage. If nothing else you have to lose a pedal stroke or two as you have to start your dismount sooner to give yourself time to move your leg thru if doing the step-thru.

Probably the rational was that the step-thru set you up better for a fast run but I've never noticed it being any slower to just step off in one fluid motion. That would seem to be the case with the guys at the top end of the sport as well.

Well, by all means if the pros do it, it must be the right technique! (Not.)


In general I agree that is no arguement and I was just responding to the post that said "look at the pros". But in this case, it's not like there isn't an easily quantifiable immediate measure. It would be pretty obvious to these guys who are racing mulitple times a week against more or less the same guys if there was anything to be gained by using the step-thru technique. The fact that it is the "classic" technique but no one does it anymore (i.e it's been abandoned) suggests just the opposite. That is, not doing it is faster. Which would seem to me, in the context of cross racing, to be the deciding point on what is correct and what is not.

I mean it's easy enough to tell if someone is faster or not thru the barriers. Even when say, Wellens, is trying to keep up with Nys who is bunny-hopping the barriers he will just step off.

I was taught if you're going to dismount with your leg through the frame that you should unclip your left foot and just set it on the pedal. have it unclipped and resting in the arch of your foot. nothing worse then flying towards a barrier, going to dismount and your left leg is still clipped in.

+1. i ALWAYS pre-unclip when doing a fast 'leg thru' although my fast isnt really that fast anymore...

Yes, no doubt, but if no one at the highest end of the sport is doing it anymore what's that say? Probably that there was no advantage in it and possible a disadvantage. If nothing else you have to lose a pedal stroke or two as you have to start your dismount sooner to give yourself time to move your leg thru if doing the step-thru.

Probably the rational was that the step-thru set you up better for a fast run but I've never noticed it being any slower to just step off in one fluid motion. That would seem to be the case with the guys at the top end of the sport as well.

I would hesitate to say that "no one at the highest end of the sport is doing it", since that is sure to be a fallacy. Perhaps they were taught wrong, or had a reason for doing it a different way in the particular clip you watched. If you want to join them in doing it the wrong way, feel free. I'll continue to do it the correct way. :) I have done it the way you mention and I don't feel it gains me any time. If you practice the step-through enough it doesn't take any more time to dismount. But as I've said before, do it the way that's comfortable for you.

I would hesitate to say that "no one at the highest end of the sport is doing it", since that is sure to be a fallacy. Perhaps they were taught wrong, or had a reason for doing it a different way in the particular clip you watched.

Perhaps you're right and I over-generalized. But I'm pretty sure in the several dozens of top Euro races I've watched from the last few years that I haven't seen any of the top guys do the step thru. I watched last year's Tabor WC race this morning, same deal, barriers on the flat at speed and everyone just slung their leg over and straight off, no step-thrus. You think "we" know what we're doing here, but the Belgians are getting taught the wrong technique?

The Belgians do this when they know Americans are watching. They've also taught Americans to jump straight off.

Meanwhile right now, they're all laughing and doing very elegant step through dismounts.

I learn to do step-through when I first start cross. When Don Myrah was still racing, I watch his race to see how he was doing it; the guy was so smooth, with the step-through, so that's what I started doing.
As for the clipping out, see if your cleats can be switched to the type with less float. If I remember right, one of the cleats had a mark on it, which designates the desired float. I know this is what I do with the Egg's.

Eggs cleats: Yes, use the orientation which provides less float and early release. Time does this also.

Step through: On a fast smooth course it works great before a barrier. Know both, and you'll instinctively use what works. I can run off the bike faster if I step through.

I am just a second-year-crosser, none of the following is based on tons of experience or any big success. I am able to make time on people at barriers and run-ups, but then again they're not the leaders, or not yet anyway. :)

I have Time Atac XS pedals, the current design, with a three-position tension adjuster. I have it set on the firmest setting. (I'm big, so firmest works well for me.) When I am about to dismount I have my hands on the hoods. I spend most of the race on the hoods. (Don't run top-mount levers.) If it's a run-up and I'm already pedalling uphill, I unclip my right foot, swing it around behind the rear wheel, drop it to the ground behind my left foot, and unclip my left foot at the same time and step forward with it. If I come to a barrier fast on level ground or any non-uphill dismount I unclip my right foot, swing it around behind the rear wheel, between my clipped-in left foot and the frame and through to step on the ground. As I'm stepping on the ground with my right foot I unclip my left foot. It's an unconscious action, really. With that first step by my right foot I begin running, and my right hand moves to the top tube of my road bike. If it's a run-up my palm is up, and I lift it slowly (a step or two) to my shoulder. Once it's on my shoulder I put my right arm around the front of the head tube and grab the left handlebar drop with my right hand. If it's a quick run over barriers my palm is down and I just carry the bike kinda hip-high.

Never had any problem remaining clipped in when I dismounted. Never tried unclipping my left foot but leaving it on the pedal. That sounds sketchy and complicated to me, but so did a lot of other cross stuff when I first read about it. The step-through dismount took practice but I think it was worth it and I think it makes me faster. I can definitely keep more speed at the transition to running. I think I got the step-through technique from Simon Burney's book, Cyclo-Cross Training & Technique.

Morgan

Morgan

Perhaps you're right and I over-generalized. But I'm pretty sure in the several dozens of top Euro races I've watched from the last few years that I haven't seen any of the top guys do the step thru. I watched last year's Tabor WC race this morning, same deal, barriers on the flat at speed and everyone just slung their leg over and straight off, no step-thrus. You think "we" know what we're doing here, but the Belgians are getting taught the wrong technique?

Dwayne,

I don't have any cross videos of the pros handy, so I'm having trouble visualizing how they dismount at speed without the step through.

I typically do the step through unless the dismount is on a steep incline where you lose momentem too quickly to do the step through.

The reason I like the step through is that it seems natural for me to get my right foot down as my first step.

I'm having trouble picturing how to take the first step with my right foot without the step through. The only thing I can think of is using your right hand on the top tube to completely unweight your left leg, clip out with the left foot as your right leg comes around, then bring your right leg forward for the first step. This would essentially be the same motion as the step through with the main differnce being that your weight rests on your right hand instead of your left foot and the left foot would unclip first and kick out a little to give your right foot more room to come forward.

I find that unweighting my left foot during the step through is key to doing quick, smooth dismounts at speed, so the techinique I mentioned above seems like it would be taking a step further (no pun intended).

Stepping with my left foot first is really akward, and there is no way i'm going pull it off at speed.

Am I picturing this correctly, or are the pros you speak of taking their first step with the left foot?

Dwayne,
I don't have any cross videos of the pros handy, so I'm having trouble visualizing how they dismount at speed without the step through.


The same way you would if you were dismounting on an uphill. In essence, you use the same dismount technique all the time. I know I've got some races with blazingly fast barrier sections. I'll see if I can find them at some point to see even if in the most extreme situation where the "step thru" would appear ideally suited if anyone is using it.

Video of Mark Gullickson and the step-through technique:

http://video.cyclingnews.com/video/?id=2002/nov02/redlineCX/menhiwm

Here's a really cool video showing lots of neat stuff, including step-behind dismounts on an uphill run (around 3:00 into the video):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1413542069925525573

I know I've seen lots of step-through dismounts on the videos Ed Raket has posted, just can't easily find/share them right now.

Morgan

I just went to a clinic last week by Ben Turner of TIAA/CREF 'Cross and he was GREAT- really got me straight in my head on fancy 'cross skills.

Among other things, he was saying that in a race there is so much going on, and your adreneline is pumped, you are blasted, and you are going at RACE speed... keep it simple!

In my words, "crashing is slow."

Ben said basically 95-100% of the time, dismount the easy way. The situation for the step-through is a flat (or downhill- but you'd never see that in a race, hopefully) and fast section leading to barriers. You have time to clip out left and roll the pedal to your instep, then step through and go to the top tube with your right hand. Now coast and get a little rest. When the barrier comes up, you are ready to go with plenty of time to do all that monkeyshines. Or, you could just do a regular dismount. You might save 1/4 second or lose 30 if you screw it up... not much in the risk/reward department. Of course, the girls dig it. As if there were any girls actually watching.

The reason to stay clipped in and clip out at the dismount is grinding up a big hill and you want every pedalstroke to count 110% before running up. Again, you can save a little or lose big if you fall.

One of the skills we practiced was uncleating and rolling the pedal to under the ball of the foot. It's a strong pedaling position with good torque for balance. I use Crank Bros, and the difficulty is NOT clipping back in! I like the Candys- easy to clip in and out... but clipping back in AFTER I clipped out caused one very panicy barrier crossing. Note to self- KEEP practicing that unclip-roll move...

About me- Noob with 2 races. What I liked was the idea of concentrating on racing your bike and training to get strong, and that the fancier skills are not really needed- even for the higher levels. As a noob, it's easy to work on step-through dismounts- but that's time better spent on simply remounting drills or even better... running hill intervals carrying the bike.

I did a step-through in my first race... flat fast approach to sandpit with about five stronger (than me) roady guys looking nervously at the sand and slowing way down... I had plenty of time to coast in the classic pose,and no room to pass anyhow. Three guys glanced over/back at me just coasting like that and that glance was enough to put them in sand unprepared. So it might have psych value, but only in the back of Cat4 where I am huffing and puffing.

Dogmeat
ps- Thanks, Ben! 32nd out of 64 my first race... I'm stoked!

I had plenty of time to coast...

Yeah but the goal is to go as fast as possible, if you're coasting, you're slowing down :)

Seriously, I suspect this is in large part why the step-thru isn't as common as it once was.

Yeah but the goal is to go as fast as possible, if you're coasting, you're slowing down :)

If you're coming into the barriers that fast, chances are you'll be crashing into them! :D

Coasting is good... it gives you a two second breather. To race cross, you need to be able to rest whenever possible.

It took me a year, but I finally mastered the step through. I had an old pair of SPD's with no float, so I could keep the left foot clipped in as I took the step with my right. It was very easy to then flick the left foot ever so slightly and clip out. This year I switched over to egg beaters. Imagine my surprise the first time I tried to do a step through and forgot to take the float into account. End result, a low speed crash to the pavement in front of my house. I reset the cleats to minimize the float and release angle, but I am still a little gun shy, and I have been doing the unclip and roll left foot over the pedal bit for the past few races. It seems to work, and the chicks still dig it.

Agree, watch the video previously posted http://video.cyclingnews.com/video/?...lineCX/menhiwm

...fast into the barrier gives him 20m to set up the dismount, and that is a fast set of barriers.

Agree, watch the video previously posted http://video.cyclingnews.com/video/?...lineCX/menhiwm

...fast into the barrier gives him 20m to set up the dismount, and that is a fast set of barriers.

FWIW, I've watched several more races and for whatever reason it appears that none of the top guys in Europe use the step thru anymore, if they ever did. I've got Worlds from the late 90's so I could go back and look at them. Actually now that I think of it, the worlds that were in Germany that Pontoni won had a set of barriers on the running track that were sick fast. I'll look and see if the step-thru was in use then.

Even on barriers that are so fast that they do coast a bit before them (can't tell if they're breaking at all or not), they just step over and coast with the right foot behind the pedal and then step off at the barrier.

FWIW, I've watched several more races and for whatever reason it appears that none of the top guys in Europe use the step thru anymore, if they ever did. I've got Worlds from the late 90's so I could go back and look at them. Actually now that I think of it, the worlds that were in Germany that Pontoni won had a set of barriers on the running track that were sick fast. I'll look and see if the step-thru was in use then.

Even on barriers that are so fast that they do coast a bit before them (can't tell if they're breaking at all or not), they just step over and coast with the right foot behind the pedal and then step off at the barrier.

I watched the Neerpelt video Ed Raket just posted, yesterday, slowing it down on the barriers, and almost all of them were not doing step-through on the sandy fast dismount to two barriers. They'd drop the unclipped foot down behind the clipped-in foot as they simultaneously unclipped and did running step two. I've done that before on uphills, but I tend to sometimes smack the pedal with my shin if I do it fast. Hm...

Morgan

I watched the Neerpelt video Ed Raket just posted, yesterday,

So how impressive was Albert?

Twenty years old and already winning at the elite level against the big boys.

So how impressive was Albert?

Twenty years old and already winning at the elite level against the big boys.

Oh my god he rode Nys off his wheel! It was freakin amazing. Vervecken was off, he fades and Wellens is off the front, trailed by Nys and Albert. Nys and Albert work together to overhaul Wellens, then it's Nys & Albert on the front, then it's just Albert and Nys fades back. Then there's this weird moment where Nys and Wellens enter the track, presumably to sprint for 2nd ,and Wellens does some weird maneuver where it looks like he hooks Nys or rides over Nys line. They exchange glances and Nys totally turns off the gas and Wellens gets 2nd. I wish I could understand what the commentators were saying at that moment.

Albert looked so strong, real fresh at the end. He made Nys and Wellens look like a bunch of masters racers in comparison.

What amazes me is that there's no drinking at all in those hour-long races. Here we're all about the "feed". Those guys don't drink anything.

Morgan

No drinks or feeds are per UCI rules. They only allow it under unusually hot circumstances, one of the Belgian races earlier this season there were pictures of guys drinking.

From what I could gather from the Dutch/Flemish sites, it was actually Nys who tried to hook Wellens. Wellens said he would expect him to do the same next time. Nys has a notoriously poor sprint while Wellens is pretty quick. If Wellens can find the form he had 3 years ago or Nys doesn't have the spectacular form he's had for the past two years then Nys is at a real disadvantage. Nys pretty much always has to go for the solo win as most of his rivals like Wellens, Vervecken, Vanthourenhout all sprint pretty good.