Anyone has a comprehensive review on the Force or Rival groupset? How does it compare to Shimano Dura Ace and Campy Record?

I know I read about it in various threads, but I figure we can all put it in here since I'm sure this question will come up again and again.

www.pezcyclingnews.com did a review on them

i'll tell u how they are....bought i don't have it on my bike yet

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10581.0.html

http://www.glorycycles.com/srforogrre.html

Here's a couple...

what i think, in condensed form -

hoods feel fat
2nd click feels and sounds limp
front shifting is just not nice

the 2nd-click feel and sound can be forgiven, and the fat hoods might have just as much to do with the wrap job and/ or use of Bar Phat/ fizik gel. the shifting in the front, though, is just not good. the 2-click (hand) motions feel really nice and natural. took little getting used to.

I have all my parts ready to go, but waiting on my new frame to put them on...should be middle of next week and then I can talk to some of this.

What about the front shifting isn't good? Is it not intuitive, or is it not good mechanically? Do tell...

the throw is a little farther than dura-ace in front. this is due to the double tap, which requires the first click before you start pulling cable. add the click to the already longer cable travel required by the FD, and u have a longer throw.

it's fine mechanically, some ppl just prefer a shorter push with their finger.

yep. throw is uncomfortably long to me.

I already talked about it in the main forum, but since it's here:

My Review (http://argentius.blogspot.com/2006/10/sram-rival-initial-review-background.html)

I already talked about it in the main forum, but since it's here:

My Review (http://argentius.blogspot.com/2006/10/sram-rival-initial-review-background.html)

Great review, thanks!

Try it.

I might try em.. but still a little skeptical..

I tested a new orbea with the sram force. I am a campag fan, but have also ridden shimano. I would say the sram worked fine. The fd throw was long, fairly cumbersome. Actuating the long throw of the RD might be a hassle during a standing sprint or standing climb but you'd probably get used to it. Honestly, it did nothing better than the existing campag/shimano systems. If you have more than one bike already, with campag/shimano, it creates a problem with interchanging wheels,parts,etc. with the rest of your stable. Also, to switch back and forth would not be ideal to me. Bottom line is don't expect better, just different.

I have in about 100 miles now on it, just got it installed the other day. I've had DA and Record, and am sold on the Force. It's entirely a preference thing though. I can't say it does any one thing better than the others, but it does many things better than the others for me. I love the way it shifts crisply, the way the hoods feel, and to me the one lever shifting is super intuitive. Sold my Record stuff, DA is up now, im that comfortable with it.

Two rides on my Sram force stuff and i absolutly love it. I went form dura ace to Sram and I have no intentions on going back, the shifting works great and i love how the levers feel on my hands. Plus the angle of the levers and the arc the smaller lever makes when you shift are perfect for me. This stuff definitly rocks, I hope durability is solid, which im sure it will be. I have sold the Dura Ace stuff, i would ride Dura Ace again for sure, but Force is my new #1.

I do have to agree with the Inbred on the FD thing. Mine doesn't shift great, kinda sloppy. and rubs when I'm in the big cog in the back. Have had a couple of the best wrenches in town work on it and if they get it to where it doesn't rub, it doesn't shift worth a F*&$, so a bit of rub is what I have to deal with to get it to shift OK, not great but OK. Other than that I LOVE it. Hoods feel good to me, RD shifts great, I like the single lever shifting, although as everybody agrees, it takes a few miles to retrain the brain!!

That's wild, mine shifts better than the Record stuff up front. I'm using an SRM crank with Dura Ace rings though, which in my opinion ramp better than anything on the market.

I am with Flatandfast on this one. The shifting up and down is fine, but I have to choose on which side of the front derailluer I want to rub. Set it so there is no rib when in the bottom cog and it will rub on the inside when I am in the 23 and powering a climb. Set it so I can power a climb and it rubs on the outside when in the bottom cog.
On my Campy I always had two clicks when in the big ring, one for the top half of the cog set and the other for the bottom half.

I like some other have terible shifting up front and a question, thoes who have bad shifting FD's are you running compact or 53/39 and which FD

Please define "terrible shifting". What exactly are you experiencing?

It's hard to trouble shoot a problem without details. Considering I am not having any shifting problems, I think I can help you get rid of yours.

Ron

bike down shifts to the small ring no problem but wont pick up with any load on the chain at all(ie rolling over the crest of a hill and cant shift to the big ring unless your coasting)

My problems are similar. Also it rubs terribly on the FD.

Im running a 53/39 dura ace 9sp crank with a force front der and the shifting is almost telapathic. It's all in the setup, it took me almost an hour to get the front dialed in, usually a 10 minute job, but it's a finicky setup without trim, and cable tension is so important. Still well worth the effort.

I was just out playing with my set up.
One thing I changed was to use the new Campy seat tube clamp instead of Shimano.
I now see to have no problem with run, and I am using Rotor Q rings which require the FD to be slight higher to accommodate the large portion of the big ring.

I did watch a video found on a recent Force review. I don't recall what site, but just do a Google on SRAM reviews and you should find it on the first page.

The FD needs to be perfectly straight to the chain, it's a fussy thing, but once dialed all your problems should go away, as did mine.

email me offline if you need help.
zronn1@excite.com

Ron

As a die hard campy user for the past several years my favorite shop convinced me to build a new bike over Xmas 06 in all SRAM Force. It was their first SRAM build but they swore they would stick with me and they have!
Some observations:
1. The rear cassette and rear derailleur are a dream. Much crisper and no trimming like my Veloce and Chorus always needed. This system rocks and was easy to set up. Even the cable stretch was pretty minimal.
2. The FD was a pain! Seems that it has to be perfectly straight and mounted a bit higher than you think. Finally we sent back first FD & told sram it was defective. The second one worked much better.
3. Once you get cable tension right, leave it alone. The real adjustment is in the set screws on the FD. My key was I wanted 34 - 26 not to rub on inside of FD and that can be achieved. You then have trim on FD so you can get 34-11 cross chaining not to rub. Although I wouldn't ride it that way.
4. Next is 50 - 11 adjustment. Work with the set screw and make sure FD is mounted high enough. This is key! Another problem was that the 50 ring seemed to be a bit warped just behind the right crank arm when we really got into fine tuning. Finally sent it in as defective and the new one was straight as an arrow. That got rid of the rub. Again next was the 50 - 26 combo. It still rubs just a bit, but again it is cross chaining so I really don't ride in that gearing.
So, keep trying. Use the instructions on the Park tool website and be persistant. If FD is really fussy try to return it and use another. That sure worked for me.
Once you get it dialed in I think the intuitive nature of the SRAM set up is better than Campy. I can't believe I wrote that but it really is true. Ya just gotta believe!

in the past year i've switched from shimano to campy, however recently i had the opportunity to test the sram stuff. the feel, quality, and precision were all top notch on the sram. the front derailleur even worked fine. my issue with the system is the double tap on the rear derailleur. single cog shifts work just fine, but when looking to make the 2 or 3 cog change i was left guessing as to how many gears had been shifted. the indexing is not as crisp as the campy, where on the first ride 2 or 3 cog shifts were extremely easy. campy also wins out for me by being able to go 3 up or 3 down with a single action.

just my observations, i know it's all subjective.

in the past year i've switched from shimano to campy, however recently i had the opportunity to test the sram stuff. the feel, quality, and precision were all top notch on the sram. the front derailleur even worked fine. my issue with the system is the double tap on the rear derailleur. single cog shifts work just fine, but when looking to make the 2 or 3 cog change i was left guessing as to how many gears had been shifted. the indexing is not as crisp as the campy, where on the first ride 2 or 3 cog shifts were extremely easy. campy also wins out for me by being able to go 3 up or 3 down with a single action.

just my observations, i know it's all subjective.

I have found this is really a learned thing as it is with mots groups. Ater a few rides I found that I could easily apply pressure to chage up 1 cog or 2-3 with out really thing about it. This is exactly how I used dura ace - my brian/hand learned the proper pressure 1 cog up ans well as 2, 3 etc. Persoanly I found the idex the best of both worlds most of the campy I have ridden is sort clunky feeling while is shimano is a bit too light SRAM seems right in the middle. Personly I am happy with out the 3 cog down shift of cammpy all I eve managed with that was to get cogs when I wanted one mid attack but that is of course a personly pref. From what I tell all 3 systems do exactly what they say shift gears well its pretty much down to which on you like.

prelim review - a little more than 60 miles in 2 rides. will post a more comprehensive review in a few months.

initial impressions - rival

easy to set up our of the box.
rear is pretty simple to get used to. it takes some thinking at first, but so would any other switch. i found myself only once trying to dump gears using the brake lever in back.
brakes are powerful w/ stock pads. the holders are a pain since i need to be able to swtich pads for carbon/alu rims, so i will be using shimano style holders, but the stock pads are very good.
fd is not as bad as everyone says. could be because im using shimano ultegra crank/rings. fd is very good, a bit long of a throw, but easy to get used to (not to bad) and it works well. maybe i got a good one?

overall, im happy i made the switch. time will tell if i still like it, but if i do, i think i may buy another rd/right brifter for my 'cross rig....we will see.

Just finished my 07 Tarmac Pro frame. I put Sram Force cranks and rival groupo on it. Rode it for the 1st time lastnight. Had no problems with the shifting. Speaking of shifting, it was spot on. No hestitation like Ultegra. Everyone complains about the long throw, its perfect for me. My bike weights just over 14 1/2lbs. I'm pretty happy right now. Come on warm weather..

spent 1.5 weeks on it now ~ 300 miles.....still way to early to tell on durability, but got cable stretch done, shifting/fit dialed, etc. - a quick review

shifters - grip is good, fit the hands well. initially i missed the big top part of the shifter of shimano when you have your forearms on the bar and grap the top part, but i got used to the smaller part on sram. they feel great climbing, and when on the hoods hands rest natural.

deraillers - rear is flawless. i only made the mistake of shifting shimano style once, after that no worries. works, what more could you want? front - not nearly as bad as people make it out to bed. the throw is maybe slightly longer than with shimano (roughly the same imo) and its not bad. the shifting is smooth and quick. lack of trim is a non-issue, set things up right and its fine. it could be my shimano crank/rings, or the wipperman chain, but the front shifting is really quick/good

brakes - good stoppping power, good modulation/adjustability, i really like them......having to swap out the pads/holders to shimano so i can use carbon wheels is a minus though

overall - great, especailly for the price. low weight. works (even in the salt/crap of maine winter). i reallly like it and would reccomend it highly

Hi SRAM folks,
Well still smiling after some more SRAM Force growing pains.
Lately, I broke the ramped cog on the 12 tooth second cog of my 11-26 cassette. Seems there are two of us who are guinnea pigs at our lbs. Both of us have done the same thing. He broke one at 200 miles while I broke one at 250 and another at 500 miles. SRAM replaces but we still have no explanation. Think it is a casting problem?????
Also, mounted brake levers on FSA k-wing bars which I think looks slick and works great for cable routing, however, we did not sand off the gloss on the bars where the shifter clamp actually contacts. That led to brake calipers which would not release all the way when applied on a steep descent when you hit a bump. I almost went down on Mt. Hamilton and then finally did a week later into a pile of leaves in Santa Cruz Mountains, both on dry pavement. So be warned. If using carbon bars sand off the spot where you ultimately decide to have the clamp positioned.
Otherwise, I really love SRAM Force. I think my Campy stuff is cool and bullet proof but the SRAM stuff is really fun to use and it gets lots of questions going. It was non stop when I was at summit of Sierra Road during ToC. People were really interested in looking at it and asking about it.

Hi SRAM folks,
we did not sand off the gloss on the bars where the shifter clamp actually contacts. That led to brake calipers which would not release all the way when applied on a steep descent when you hit a bump.


Okay... I'm confused. How does failure to sand the bars cause sticking brake calipers? I have mine mounted on un-sanded FSA carbon bars with no problems (...so far.)

Okay... I'm confused. How does failure to sand the bars cause sticking brake calipers? I have mine mounted on un-sanded FSA carbon bars with no problems (...so far.)Sounds like the wrench didn't tighten the clamp to correct torque. Although some bars do have a matte section at the clamping point.

Thanks to "ultimobici" as he is right on! Seems some carbon bars have a matte finish at clamping point. If yours don't it would be a good idea to sand there. Seems Force/Rival levers are really touchy about releasing if clamp slips while applying brakes and hitting bump. I know as I had a close call one week and then a fall the next week before getting advice from Felt Racing techs at ToC booth in San Jose. That seems to have solved problem!

I have an Orbea Opal with the full Force gruppo. I have several hundred miles on it, with absolutely no issues. The brakes were recalled due to the titanium bolts (too brittle or something). They were replaced in a very timely fashion by Sram at no cost. I find the shifting to be excellent both front and back. The double click becomes "natural" after a couple rides. As for sprinting, the rear shifting rules. You can pull the shifter close to the bar with your index finger while keeping a full grip on the drops and shift at will. I haven't encountered any issues with loosening cranks. Overall, I am very pleased. It looks awesome, is light, flawlessly functional, and the hoods feel really natural (for me). I feel any issues such as: "fat" levers, quirky shifting, loosening cranks, etc. are probably a result of mal adjustment/installation, incompatibility between mismatched parts, or just using too much/too thick bar tape. As for the 12 breaking easily, not sure about that one. I highly recommend it.

Check on ebay you can get a SRAM Rival complete group for 589 inc shipping from a seller in California, screaming deal. closest deal in Ultegra overseas at chainreaction in the UK for 640 but its 220 grams heavier. I took the leap. I have an Ionic(DEAN) S3 steel Nemis Frame that I should have built up in the next couple of weeks. I hoping everything works out.

the throw is a little farther than dura-ace in front. this is due to the double tap, which requires the first click before you start pulling cable. add the click to the already longer cable travel required by the FD, and u have a longer throw.

it's fine mechanically, some ppl just prefer a shorter push with their finger.

I find that if I pull the shift lever in toward the handlebar prior to shifting, the throw feels dramatically shorter as the shifter then follows the natural path of my finger which is on a curving path back toward the bar while trying to push the lever in. Try it -- it makes a big difference.

I just bought an '07 Onix with SRAM Rival. The rear derailleur is great, the front drops to the small chain ring just fine, but the throw to go to the big chain ring is long and a little clunky, has difficulty shifting. In reading through the thread, I wonder if this is a funstion of frame size? My lbs said it had something to do with the angle of the cable on such a small frame--I ride a 48 frame. If they work out some of the front derailleur bugs for next year, I'll switch it. Otherwise, the 1 lever shifting is super easy to get used, took no time at all. The rear derailleur shifting is super easy and crisp.

Any one else think the front derailleur problem is frame size related?

I have not had a problem with the front, but I am not that thrilled with the function of the rear.

Precision is fine on training rides, but it is finicky when going up the cogset to an easier gear. Not a problem when training and you have attention to spare, but here in Nor Cal our races are all hilly requiring a lot of gear changing. Finicky mechanisms when in race situations cause over shifting when going to a lighter gear. Push slightly too far and you get chatter.

I have not had a problem with the front, but I am not that thrilled with the function of the rear.

I feel exactly the opposite and agree with most others here who have said that the rear shifts well but that the throw on the front Derailleur is awkward and long.

Hi all,
Well my review on this very thread dated Feb 16th needs to be updated.
I'm so fed up with SRAM that I'm seriously considering sending the whole #$%)*& gruppo back to them and installing Campy Chorus like I originally planned.
The FD on the 50/34 downshifts great but is really sluggish on the upshift. In addition, just can't seem to avoid rub. Even had the wrench for SRAM look at it at Sea Otter. He said that my carbon frame has the mount in the wrong place and that I should cut up a 7-UP can and use that as shims!!!
Then the rear cassette 11/26 Force keeps dropping the ramped tooth on the 12 cog. I've done it on 3 cassettes in 1,000 miles. I've always been pacelining on flat level ground and just dropping thru or climbing up the cogs when I've felt this crunchy sensation in the chain. At the end of the day I inspect the cassette and that tooth is missing. Yes, the exact same chain since day one!
I also asked at SRAM Sea Otter and everyone looks at me like I'm from Jupiter. No explanation, no apology, and no offer of a replacement cassette. Just "...take it up with your lbs..." .
Well, in my book that is lousy customer service and I'm done with that.
I've ridden 4 years on Campy and have never lost a tooth on a cassette yet with SRAM Force I've lost 3 in 4 months. Sorry but this stuff is just not ready for prime time.
Good luck guys.

Maybe you can check into a Dura ace cassette. It is my understanding that it will work with SRAM. To bad on the shim. I had to shim but that was because I have a S3 Steel bike. Maybe you can try using a piece of ultra light inner tube, It worked for me another bike I had, .its thin and gripped the frame. Just a thought, Good luck

Hi Rugby 11
Thanks for the tip. My point was that I'm really disappointed that I bought an all Force gruppo and I can't seem to keep their cassette from disintegrating. In addition, no one from SRAM seems to have heard of the problem nor are they actually willing to admit that there is a problem. Also, why not design an FD that doesn't need a shim. The other guys seem to be able to. Finally, the lack of trim in big ring with FD really is a disappointment because I just can't get the thing to work as advertised nor can anyone else who has tried. Again, no admission of a problem by SRAM.
I had such high hopes and now after 4 months I'm so disappointed that the promises just don't match the reality.

Hi bbirkeland.
Hey I did see on the tech pdf file on sram that cassette tooth breakage can be caused by using acid based cleaners. I doubt that was your issue but it was on the sram site.

Hey but I just did the idiot thing and cut the chain to short. I guess between trying to get it marked and the kids across the street asking me what I was doing it dropped down one,,,,AGGGGGHHHH!. That one hurts. 60 bucks!!!! its only money.

Also, why not design an FD that doesn't need a shim. The other guys seem to be able to. Finally, the lack of trim in big ring with FD really is a disappointment because I just can't get the thing to work as advertised nor can anyone else who has tried. Again, no admission of a problem by SRAM..

I wonder if this mainly with their compact cranks. I have had good luck getting the front deraillure to work with standard cranks as have several other I know but no one i know is running compacts. In which case their definatly is a design issue.

FIW the 08 version will have trim and from what I understand posiible a shorter throw because of it.

I have the compact cranks on my Serotta and the ft der was super easy to setup.
The key to proper fd setup, for Sram is:

1 -- The correct height from the bottom of the cage to the top of the chainrings. I use a penny to verify that is set at the right height. Place it flat between the bottom of the cage and top of the rings. Also check the position of the cage to make sure it is tail in. It the ft der is twisted, it will rub and make all kinds of bad noise.

2-- Lots of cable tension. Because the shifter feels like it has a long throw, I have increased the cable tension and it moves up very fast. Just as fast as my Campy setup

3-- Since the Sram ft der is wider, that is why they dont need to put trim in the shifter. I can some cable rubbing in the 50x23 but that is expected. Just keep working the limit screws and you should be able to get most of the rub out. They are tight tolerances but it works great.

Good luck

This is quite interesting that some people are having shifting problems with the front derailler. I'm not as patient as one of the posters on here who was ok with returning a FD for another one. I figure that if you pay a premium for a groupset, then all the parts should work out of the box. None of this returning stuff and trying another one for me.

I'm on Dura-Ace right now. If I get a new bike, I'll either go with Dura-Ace or Campy Record. The SRAM Force looks great and I'd definitely switch from DA, but it is significantly more expensive than either DA or Record. Plus, with the problems that people are starting to report about the front derailler. The choice is easy. No thanks SRAM. Improve your product and lower the price, then we'll see.