Can those of you with experience riding both tires compare & contrast them, citing the pros & cons of each? Hopefully you can compare apples to apples (i.e. 32 vs. 32c).

I know the Flexus is newer and considerably more expensive ($100 vs. $75 for Elite LPS) but is it worth the extra cash in your opinion? ATP, I know your thinking is if you're going to spend the cash for the Flexus, just go for the Dugasts. I don't know where to purchase them though, do you (not that I have the cash anyway!)? I can get the Flexus for $93, so no big savings but a little better than $100.

OTOH, the Grifo's are less expensive ($70), handmade, and probably provide better traction at the expense of being HEAVY.

Cyclocrossworld.com just released 'Bikes of the Super Stars', check it out here:
http://www.cyclocrossworld.com/BOSS.cfm

It must say SOMETHING that not one of them are riding Tufo's. Yes, I realize some of this may have to do w/sponsorships. However, now I'm thinking regardless of the weight penalty the Grifo's are the way to go.

Decisions, Decisions. Heck, they don't call me 'Jeff the Obsessed' for nothing! ;-)

Thanks,

Cyclocrossworld.com just released 'Bikes of the Super Stars', check it out here:
http://www.cyclocrossworld.com/BOSS.cfm

It must say SOMETHING that not one of them are riding Tufo's. Now I'm thinking regardless of the weight penalty, the Grifo's are the way to go.

I just saw video of a recent dry weather Euro race and there were a lot of gray tread tires on the front row. Flexus is gray tread ...

So the Flexus hooks up really well in dry -- much better than the Elites or Prestige. I think they hook up a little better in the wet too but still leave a lot to be desired.

Next year I'm thinking about getting an extra tubie wheelset and mounting some Griffos for the sloppy days.

Also, you can get Flexus' for about $69 shipped if you're willing to buy 10. Ask around your local racing scene -- it's pretty easy to offload six or eight Flexus tubies for that price.

and run the grifos. they hook well in most stuff and are cheaper (and available in 34). if you can get the flexus at a group rate, by all means...

I'd go for the Grifo. I have only used the old LPS Tufos, but I think that the Grifo tread, rubber compound and construction is still a better all-around tire. My guess is that the Grifo is still a better handling tire than the new Tufo, in general. This trumps weight for me every time. You can find cotton Dugasts for the price of those Tufos if you search.

Just to make you all jealous, I just picked up 2 brand new pink silk Dugast 32s for $100 each. Don't worry about where, they were the last 2!

I'd go for the Grifo. I have only used the old LPS Tufos, but I think that the Grifo tread, rubber compound and construction is still a better all-around tire. My guess is that the Grifo is still a better handling tire than the new Tufo, in general. This trumps weight for me every time. You can find cotton Dugasts for the price of those Tufos if you search.

Just to make you all jealous, I just picked up 2 brand new pink silk Dugast 32s for $100 each. Don't worry about where, they were the last 2!

don't gloat or something bad will become of them.

don't gloat or something bad will become of them.

You're right, but something bad already happened to a couple other ones of mine this year! That's why I had to spend MORE money on Dugasts... They're like crack, once you've tried them- you're hooked!

And this is what Cross has become.....

And this is what Cross has become.....

Yup, people are using special tires. For shame!

Wunlap:

You seem to to be a fast racer who chooses equipment carefully and has tried several different tires. What are your current favorites for various conditions, like dry grassy, muddy, snow & ice, etc.? Dugast cotton Typhoon vs. Flying Doctor vs. Rhino vs. pink silk? What widths do you like and what tire pressures? If you don't mind spilling your secrets, I for one would love to hear your opinions.

What is the story on the Dugast pink silk tires? Is the tread pink? Are there any US distributors or do you have to have a connection? I assume the silk casing is supposed to be even more supple than the already super supple Dugast cotton casing? Are they lighter, too?

One thing I have not figured out Dugast tires is the whole suppleness thing. For cross tubulars the conventional wisdom is the more supple the better. But the supposed benefit of the Dugast Flying Doctor tire (http://cyclocrossworld.stores.yahoo.net/dufldo.html) is that it has a stiffer sidewall and thus can be run at lower pressures and still not have the sidewall fold over in corners. So in this case, more supple is not better?

You're right, but something bad already happened to a couple other ones of mine this year! That's why I had to spend MORE money on Dugasts... They're like crack, once you've tried them- you're hooked!

that's why I haven't bought any. I'm a weak man I tell ya . I got a really square deal on some Griffos though.

I've never used the "flying doctor" so I can't speak from experience. I can imagine that the stiff sidewall might be good in mud when the goal is to run the tires just as low as possible- super supple tires will fold over when you run them too low.

This year I am using the pink 32 typhoon tires on one bike and on the other I have a pink one on the back and a cotton one on the front. The reason for this is I could only find one pair of cotton and I punctured one in Maine, so I was luckily able to get the silk ones for replacements.

I actually prefer the cotton ones because they're lighter. They feel really similar as far as how they ride and they're both super good. I also have a set of Rhino 34s that I have for muddy, icy or extra bumpy conditions. The Rhino tread is very similar to the Michelin Mud tire and it is incredibly good on muddy and off camber tracks, but it's somewhat slower on the pavement. Because I have 2 bikes, I like to generally keep the Typhoon 32s on both of them for consistency's sake. The typhoon is also a very good tread that I'm very used to in most conditions.

The deal with the pink silk tire is that they are supposed to resist pinch flats. On the Dugast web page it says that there is either an elastomer strip somewhere in the tire or there is an outer coating that prevents pinch flats... I don't really know but I've never pinched either the cotton or silk tires and this is another reason that I prefer the cotton ones.

With either tire, I apply Tire Life latex to the outside of the casing before I glue them. Don't ask me where to get it because there were some cans of it at a shop that I used to work at and I bought them all, I have no idea where they came from. This protects the tire when you're riding, but I've also noticed that if you get glue on the sidewall of an unprotected Dugast it will ruin the outer coating and cause the water and mud to turn the sidewalls black, especially if you try and pick the glue off. The silk casing is more delicate and over time the silk will fail and tear if the glue gets on there and you try and pick it off.

Tire pressure is different for everyone, but I run my tires as low as 24 lbs and as high as 30 lbs. I weigh 135 lbs. Basically, the muddier it gets the lower the pressure. I also prefer a bigger tire in the mud.

With either tire, I apply Tire Life latex to the outside of the casing before I glue them. Don't ask me where to get it because there were some cans of it at a shop that I used to work at and I bought them all, I have no idea where they came from.

Jevelot used to make / sell liquid latex in a bottle, for touching up the sidewalls on sew-ups. Maybe this is the stuff. I used it "back in the day".

Edit:

http://www.branfordbike.com/bikecare/bcare7.html#item5

http://www.branfordbike.com/images/bikecare/jevelot.jpg

Morgan

Jevelot used to make / sell liquid latex in a bottle, for touching up the sidewalls on sew-ups. Maybe this is the stuff. I used it "back in the day".

Edit:

http://www.branfordbike.com/bikecare/bcare7.html#item5

http://www.branfordbike.com/images/bikecare/jevelot.jpg

Morgan

That's the stuff! Apply it to NEW tires,if they're at all dirty it won't stick very well.

For those in Northern California, I've picked it up recently @ Shaws lightweight cyclery.

Happy Toobin'

Frank

this is a good thread... I'm new to tubulars and was debating all of the things in this thread. I ended up getting a set of the grifos 32s and 1 flexus 32 for a spare front wheel. Intuition says that the liquid latex stuff is not needed for either of these tires, but asking does not hurt...

this is a good thread... I'm new to tubulars and was debating all of the things in this thread. I ended up getting a set of the grifos 32s and 1 flexus 32 for a spare front wheel. Intuition says that the liquid latex stuff is not needed for either of these tires, but asking does not hurt...

On modern Grifos it is kind of redundant since they are pretty tough on the sidewall but if you happen to have an older pair (they had a slightly different sidewall with less latex on them out of the box) you might put some on. No need for it on Tufo.

Wow, I finally had a GOOD experience racing with the Flexus last weekend in the mud and bumpy rocks. I think I finally got them down low enough. I chose to run 34 in back and 32 in front for the Barton Crusade race yesterday. I could hear the rim banging rocks all the time, but kept thinking "jack be nimble, jack be quick..." They were sweet, unfortunately, I killed the back one right as I closed the gap to 4th place during the last lap. I was able to keep it rolling pretty good even flat and was really impressed. Unfortunately I lost several spots and dropped to 9th. Oh well! I had a ton of Stans in there but the cut is about 1/4". Also, the cotton base tape is really peeling away from the tire casing. Should I try to repair it, or toss it? Not many miles on it. Amazingly, I flatted in the smoothest section of the course. Go figure.

http://brandtastic.smugmug.com/photos/108594235-M.jpg

http://brandtastic.smugmug.com/photos/108594302-M.jpg

Wow, I finally had a GOOD experience racing with the Flexus last weekend in the mud and bumpy rocks. I think I finally got them down low enough. I chose to run 34 in back and 32 in front for the Barton Crusade race yesterday. I could hear the rim banging rocks all the time, but kept thinking "jack be nimble, jack be quick..." They were sweet, unfortunately, I killed the back one right as I closed the gap to 4th place during the last lap. I was able to keep it rolling pretty good even flat and was really impressed. Unfortunately I lost several spots and dropped to 9th. Oh well! I had a ton of Stans in there but the cut is about 3/16". Also, the cotton base tape is really peeling away from the tire casing. Should I try to repair it, or toss it? Not many miles on it. Amazingly, I flatted in the smoothest section of the course. Go figure.

Sucks! I flatted a cotton Dugast 32 in Maine on a seemingly smooth part of the course, so I know how you feel. Sounds like your tire is basically trashed if the Stan's isn't doing the trick. I have seen people fix tufo tires with big cuts by stuffing a little peice of a foam ear plug in the hole in conjunction with sealant. I'd only want to train on it though.

You can re-attatch the base tape with Barge cement- it's available at hardware stores.It works like tubular cement, you put it on both surfaces and let it dry before smooshing them together. It's burly.

Also, the cotton base tape is really peeling away from the tire casing.

Tufo tape, or this stuff from cxworld:
http://cyclocrossworld.stores.yahoo.net/tubulartape.html

Thanks,

hmm,

I flatted my dugust in the first race on it, on the first lap. seemed like a very unlikely place to flat too. In the smoother grass before the sand at the longmont usgp race. the worst part is i kept riding to the pit which i was a long way, and most of it pavement, and tore the tire up pretty good. actully i haven't had the heart to even go look at it yet.....

But i have to say that the ride on those things was soooooo nice. Like someone on here said last week. Those tires are like crack for cross racers. I am not sure if they can handle the rocky courses in colorado?????

Oh well! I had a ton of Stans in there but the cut is about 1/4". Also, the cotton base tape is really peeling away from the tire casing. Should I try to repair it, or toss it? Not many miles on it. Amazingly, I flatted in the smoothest section of the course. Go figure.[/IMG]

I got a pencil sized stick jabbed through the sidewall of a Vittoria CX tire last week when I was training on some hard singletrack. It was full of NoTubes juice, but did not stop the hissing of air, nor did it plug the hole back in the shop. I'm running this setup with clinchers, so I was able to dismount the tire and repair the hole using a tube patch. Now, I'm using the juice only to seal up the tires and removing any excess fluid so it doesn't get wasted.

hmm,

I flatted my dugust in the first race on it, on the first lap. seemed like a very unlikely place to flat too. In the smoother grass before the sand at the longmont usgp race. the worst part is i kept riding to the pit which i was a long way, and most of it pavement, and tore the tire up pretty good. actully i haven't had the heart to even go look at it yet.....

But i have to say that the ride on those things was soooooo nice. Like someone on here said last week. Those tires are like crack for cross racers. I am not sure if they can handle the rocky courses in colorado?????

Yeah, I pulled a giant thorn out of my new pink Dugast after preriding that Longmont course on Friday. It didn't go all the way in and didn't cause a flat, but if i'd ridden another lap I'm sure it would have. I didn't care much for that course, I think there were a lot of flats there.