impeach and remove George and Dick? then Nancy would be the First...
now, it's do-able, maybe, but a good ideal: would that backfire on the First Tuesday, 2008?

I don't think it is doable and the failed effort would backfire big in two years.

Impeachment is not the tool of choice for buyer's remorse. Let's get through these lame duck years doing something productive. At least that's my two cents.

I don't think it is doable and the failed effort would backfire big in two years.

Impeachment is not the tool of choice for buyer's remorse. Let's get through these lame duck years doing something productive. At least that's my two cents.


Yeah, somehow I don't think the mandate given to the Dems was for them to waste time trying to oust the Pres.

Make the Bushies eat crow, i.e. hand over Iraq to the Iraqis, summarily pull out, and let the chips fall where they may. Congress could refuse to appropriate further money beyond a certain point.

Yeah, somehow I don't think the mandate given to the Dems was for them to waste time trying to oust the Pres.
yeah yeah i know, but i had to fantasize


when's good for nuthing-cheerleadin' Condi Rice going to resign? she's better off to our republic by teaching or administering at Standford and playing her piano.


our fine republic has prooven that it can right itself and begin to heal...

as not doing so would hurt the troops which they can't ethically or politically do.

perp walks may be seen as a waste of time but after 6 years of bullying I'd like to see them get theirs

as not doing so would hurt the troops which they can't ethically or politically do.

Of course, you're right. The hemorrage of billions could still provide an incentive to pull the troops out as early as possible.

If Dems can work these next two years as true bi-partisans, with a moderate view, and make some headway in change of policy in Iraq, they will likely add further to the currently found majority. Maybe stay around for another 40yrs?

If politicians want to be successful, they need to look at the newfound Arnold out here in CA. Biggest state in the union, a blue state, and we love him after he dropped the typical Repub party base mentality a yr ago and extended his hand across the isle. He passed all his initiatives yesterday. People don't even consider him to be party affiliated. I lean left and love the fact he's back!

When someone is found to be embezzeling or perpetrating fraud we usually don't say let's just move forward. We're talking about the Commander-in Chief here; a higher standard of conduct must apply. If he broke laws the matter must be allowed to run it's full course.

and the Dems are worried about being seen as petty and vindictive

well last I recall the Republicans weren't seen as such for the Clinton witch hunt and if the Dems don't do anything they are gonna be seen as a bunch of pu$$ies. Like I said, get to work on the big stuff but start the investigations. Oh and for those who want this type of action, demand it of your Congress persons, write a frickin' letter.

I think it's do-able, assuming an impartial investigation and evaluation of the evidence, but it would take so long it wouldn't be worth the work, the money or the political fallout. You have to figure at least a year of investigation, then months of posturing and stalling and points-of-order, and nearly half the voters would figure it was just petty revenge and be pissed about that. They'll be gone in two years anyway; let 'em twist fruitlessly in the wind until then.

When someone is found to be embezzeling or perpetrating fraud we usually don't say let's just move forward. We're talking about the Commander-in Chief here; a higher standard of conduct must apply. If he broke laws the matter must be allowed to run it's full course.

Absolutely. But if you're going to go on a big fishing trip, you'd better make sure you come back with some big fish to fry. Because anything less will be a distraction, and voters are tired of smoke-and-mirror BS, both from the right AND the left.

many Americans voted Dem because they want accountibility. Evangelicals voted Dem because they feel the Cons really don't have values. Americans want to get to the bottom of numerous issues and it really is quite simple.
Look you investigate the warrantless wiretapping and the datamining. If it is shown the President overstepped his legal rights and broke the law then Impeachment is easy, you don't need a drawn out hearing. Clinton's took so long because they were mining for something to Impeach him by. It took 6 years to find something but only a few weeks to Impeach. Nixon the same, how long after the elections and uncovering of watergate did it take? everyone (especially the young folks) don't remember this and Clinton's seemed so long because it was a real unproductive fishing excursion.
So you start investigations into a number of these things 'just to get to the bottom of them' for the American public who 'demanded' it by their vote.
When getting to the bottom shows the Pres. and the VP didn't 'uphold the Constitution and the Laws of the Land' Congress has no option but to vote to impeach. Subpoena power is going to speed this up and Conyers already has a littany of stuff but was only able to discuss it in a basement. The paperwork and folks are all in place. Now the Dems control the agenda and the committees, this really won't be as difficult as you think. The hubris at which the admin did this (because they knew they had lapdogs in Congress who would Kaibash any investigations) will be their downfall.
It is why holding on to this last midterm was so important to them, but again their hubris blinded them to the rising tide of public discontent.

here's some reading to get ya started

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/iraqrept.html

I know it has been so long many of us have forgotten. THEY WORK FOR US

write yer rep a letter and DEMAND Justice be served.

for Bill, for Max, for Valerie, for John (both of them even the republican version), for every person they slandered and libeled en route.

the Dems have to worry about the public perception of them as WEAK.
how can we expect them to be tough on threats from afar when they can't be tough on the threats from within.
as my (moderate Democrat) wife said. "If they don't do anything they'll look like the pu$$ies the NeoCons have made them out to be"
This is a National Security issue ya know.
I nearly spit up my coffee.

The dems would be fools to use their two years of majority to prosecute the President. Implement real change, establish strong and visible leaders, and show the voting public what can be done. If they go after the president and fail or it drags out, the American people will turn against them. The election this week was a referendum on the direction that the American want to go. Forward.

The President can be doing illegal stuff and still not warrant impeachment. It really comes down to proving intent, which is always difficult. I believe that the warrantless wiretapping stuff and data mining is not legal, but the President believes he has extraordinary powers because we are at war. Even if you prove he broke the law (which shouldn't be hard), it's an issue of interpretation, and because the Attorney General and White House Counsel have decided that the President is correct, there's no possible way you'll impeachment. He may be breaking the law, but he has covered his bases, and the worst you can do to him is clarify the law and force him to stop. A metaphorical slap on the wrist. Impeachment is not going to happen, and it's a lose-lose proposition for anyone who wants to go there. Unless you can pull it off quickly and decisively, it's going to be seen as petty vengeance.

Outside of impeachment, I think certain investigations have to happen in order to reclaim the power of Congress and force the Executive branch to work within the law. Congress needs to do this to make itself relevant again.

I think it's do-able, assuming an impartial investigation and evaluation of the evidence, but it would take so long it wouldn't be worth the work, the money or the political fallout. You have to figure at least a year of investigation, then months of posturing and stalling and points-of-order, and nearly half the voters would figure it was just petty revenge and be pissed about that. They'll be gone in two years anyway; let 'em twist fruitlessly in the wind until then.

it'll be worth it just to see Bush Cheney and Rummy behind bars for war crimes.

I don't think it is doable and the failed effort would backfire big in two years.

Impeachment is not the tool of choice for buyer's remorse. Let's get through these lame duck years doing something productive. At least that's my two cents.

I think I love you, for your mind of course. :)

it'll be worth it just to see Bush Cheney and Rummy behind bars for war crimes.

maybe mend some bridges and HELP spread democracy if we showed the world NOONE, not even the president is above the law.

too many of Democrats are WIMPS, really.
if can be proven in a "court of public opnion" that George and Dick lied, then impeach them both! gotta do what's right.

service justice is better than keeping an unjust peace.

if public perception is you are a wimp and you finally have the bully by the throat walking away would of course be the honorable thing to do, but folks will think yer a pu$$y, annd elections are unfortunately won on public perception.

can you imagine the RNC Ads in 08. "How can they be tough on terror when they were such sissies with Bush?" "How can they protect America when they didn't stand up to a 2 bit tyrant?"

and don't think they won't do it. Bush will be useless to the GOP at that point, if it serves their future to toss him under the bus they will.

I say investigate everything that needs to be investigated. And there's a ton of it for sure. So much so I don't have the time or energy to list 'em. Bring everything into the light and then take it from there.

In the meantime, take care of business. Minimum wage, Bolton, etc...

too many of Democrats are WIMPS, really.
if can be proven in a "court of public opnion" that George and Dick lied, then impeach them both! gotta do what's right.

service justice is better than keeping an unjust peace.

Don't worry, John Conyers is on the case.

When the investigations show real crimes, then impeachment will certainly be an acceptable solution to the public. This was just part of the Dems faint to win both houses of Congress. "Nah, we don't want to impeach. It's counter productive...we saw what happened to the Reps in '98...yadda, yadda, yadda..."

You see, one president was impeached for personal indiscretions. His approval ratings went up. The other president will be impeached for serious crimes like treason, spying on America, or not upholding the Constitution, or not abiding by international treaties during a time of war, war crimes and crimes against humanity...etc.

His approval ratings are barely holding at 35% and will go down further when the results of the investigations show he has broken serious laws on more than one occasion.

No they really don't "want to impeach," but when the crimes are exposed through the investigations, they will be forced to impeach. If this Congress gives him a pass, then they will have set a most horrible precedent for future tyrants, I mean presidents, to come.

This is a country of laws. Always has been and always will be.

Evangelicals voted Dem because they feel the [neo-]Cons really don't have values because neo_Cons don't...'bankrupted' ideology, if there were any. Neo-cons aren't even conservative nor even honest. W. Bush and gang will be known as one of the worst Preseidnt and staff in American history, ever! **** you W. Bush! Sad how much his peep' has squandered in lives, money, and honor. Who's going to care for all those diabled combat vets now? Barely forgotten by the VA, from a insanely mismanged war. problem wasn't starting them, either one, problem is in how it was conducted: with outright dishonesty, ignorance, and incompetance.

Sensators McCain or Richard Lugar are only of the few GOP that can still command respect and claim to conservatism

that plenty of the Dems are quyite religious men. so the whole myth that the Democratic party is full of God hatin' secular humanists is pretty much in trouble. Now if we can just teach them that religion and politics are best left separate for both their sakes and that THEIR values are good, but not RIGHT for everyone in a PLAURALIST society we can really move forward.

that plenty of the Dems are quyite religious men. so the whole myth that the Democratic party is full of God hatin' secular humanists is pretty much in trouble. Now if we can just teach them that religion and politics are best left separate for both their sakes and that THEIR values are good, but not RIGHT for everyone in a PLAURALIST society we can really move forward.

we, Christians, want people to choose Christ, on thier own. Not by manipulating laws to enforce our values: that's is why I am anti-abortion, but pro-choice: when scientist can not, "overwhelmingly" agree then leave those decisions to the indivudual and their family, church, and friends. God gave us thought and free will: faith and reason need not be exclusive.

we, Christians, want people to choose Christ, on thier own. Not by manipulating laws to enforce our values: that's is why I am ani-abortion, but pro-choice: when scientist can not, "overwhelmingly" agree then leave those decisions to the indivudual and their family, church, and friends. God gave us thought and free will: faith and reason need not be exclusive

Well said TN, I couldn't agree more. I don't believe in abortion for myself, but luckily I've never been in that position. Who am I to preach to someone that they shouldn't given their personal circumstances?

Consider the Terri Shaivo case. It's a bit different, but still a good analogy. When Bill Frist thought he was qualified to diagnose her from watching a 30 min video, I thought this man wants to be president??? Considering this, and what GWB has done to this country, I think we are in need of a much stronger litmus test to see if someone's actually qualified to run this country. Do we want to elect our buddy to the White House, or do we want someone smart enough to make the right decisions in tough circumstances?

Thanks to George Bush and Cheney, the Neo-Con agenda is dead. Fiscally responsible Dems will rule for quite some time. When they step over the line they too will be spanked. Most people aren't stupid enough to believe that deficits don't matter.

I believe we are on the path to hope again. It's good to have America back!

...believe we are on the path to hope again. It's good to have America back!


what a sigh of relief to see the self-healing process of the grand republic has begun.
once we have a honorable President guiding our ship-of-state on January, 2009, we shall be back on course as the great republic, leading, along the front and not by alone, by virtuous example and dignity.

the lingering question is: do the Democrats need to account George and Dick for dishonesty and incompetance: needlessly conjuring up false reasons (we already had enough valid reasons without the lies) to start a war of choice (i still think we should have, btw), and outright ignoring expert advice from the State Dept and the CIA, about how to proceed in Iraq (Neo-Cons ran this exclusively from the Pentagon, with Dick). However seemingly painful and unpleasant: it may be a worthy debate, a fair impeachment hearing, to get the truths out about George and Dicks manipulating the Sept 11th atrocities to manufature consent.

And why is the Taliban and opium drug lords coming back in Afganistan and we still don't have Osama's head? Taliban regime clearly is a just cause to have punished and to rehabilitate that country which its people been pawned off in the '80s by our cold Cold War tactics.

i say, to impeach is to heal: let there be debate and let each Represenative vote their conscience, recorded, to stand on the next Election day. With power, comes responsibility.