Looks like all that "terrorism is down" stuff has as much substance as most claims made by this administration. The State Department's recent terrorism report claimed that terrorist incidents were down in 2003, and people here and elsewhere waived it as proof that Bush's tactics are winning the war on terror.

But.... from http://counterspin.blogspot.com/2004/06/report-card-update.html

"They frame the issue in Bush's favor by looking at the NUMBER of terrorist attacks vs. the number of casulaties they create as the benchmark for success.

So, using their dumb methodology (quantity over quality), a small-scale attack that broke some guy's arm is EQUIVALENT to the 9/11 attacks in importance.

No serious or honest person would agree with that, obviously."

Counterspin goes on trashing this report, and argues that terrorism is increasing getting even worse in 2004, if you care to read it.

Now, it turns out the administration did not just mess with the methodology, but they messed with the the definition of a YEAR!

From:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_06/004108.php

TERROR AT 20-YEAR HIGH?....Remember that terrorism report issued by the State Department a few weeks ago? The one showing what a great job we were doing reducing terror? Not so fast:

--------------start la times quote-------------

"On Tuesday, State Department officials said they underreported the number of terrorist attacks in the tally for 2003, and added that they expected to release an updated version soon.

Several U.S. officials and terrorism experts familiar with that revision effort said the new report will show that the number of significant terrorist incidents increased last year, perhaps to its highest level in 20 years.

....[A] senior official characterized the errors as clerical, and blamed them mostly on the fact responsibility for the report recently shifted from the CIA to the administration's new Terrorist Threat Integration Center.

....For example, the State Department report listed 190 terrorist attacks in 2003, including 169 "significant" ones. But [Rep. Henry] Waxman said a review showed the report stopped counting terrorist incidents on Nov. 11, leaving out several major attacks, including bombings of two synagogues, a bank and the British Consulate in Turkey that killed 62 and injured more than 700.

Waxman said a State Department official blamed the Nov. 11 cutoff on a printing deadline."

--------------End latimes quote.--------------

The bombing in Turkey happened on November 20.

I may not be an expert on terrorism, but I've had an awful lot of printing done in my career and it's hardly credible that the printing deadline for an April report could have been early enough to cut off data gathering six months earlier. Unless they're using a printshop from hell, a report like this would have headed to the printer sometime in March.

It's embarrassing, really. These guys can't even be bothered to come up with good excuses anymore. It's almost like they know that no one in the press will even bother to challenge them."

------------end washington monthy quote--------------

dr. (gosh, this pasting stuff without bothering to check it out first makes posting easy) hoo

Stay the course Hoo! If Bush says it's working then it must be those commie liberals spreading their usual lies.

No message.

Are they counting all the American troops and civilians killed in Iraq in the last year ???
What about all the Iraqis killed by Iraqis ??

terrorism is possibly the biggest threat to world safety. I'm talking at the level of the ability for regular people to enjoy and have a peaceful life.

Terrorist (amazingly mostly muslim based) are a threat in every non-muslim country.

Think of the kidnapping in the Philliphines, train bombings in Spain, etc.

Why doesn't the media ever connect the dots and portray the real enemy to freedom, which are terrorist. Instead they go after Bush, who not perfect, but is engaged in a battle to fight them.

I've noticed every comment to your post is a fargin wise crack. Perhaps some people have lost the ability to think about the issue instead of being wrapped up in politic.

Firstly, do you agree that terrorism is a major issue to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not only in America but in the world. What non-muslim country is free from their hatred and will to kill innocents? I think none.

Assuming you agree, what do you think should or could be done to stop them?

I think these are the questions that really need to be asked and discussed rather than flaming with your friends on the hate Bush thread. Let me know what you think.
What needs to be done

1) Settle the Israeli-Palestinian issue. (lest we forget this is still the primary source of hatred in the middle east and another bloody day was had in the Gaza as well.)
2) Troops more than even General Shenceki (sp) said before he was "retired" for not towing the line. I would say between 400,000 and 750,000 to occupy and disarm. It seems like every friggin person there has an AK in their turban. Get them.
3) Make sure every Madras is closed in every middle eastern country. The U.S. must control the ideology to cut the root of the hatred it is in the Madrases that much of the hatred is taught.
4) Take a page from Lenin and Stalin. (Boy won't you accuse me of being a communist now). They knew the value of controlling education and information. No matter who is "president" the ministers of these offices must be U.S. ideologues to the nth degree.
5) What happened to the Iraqi, engineers and scientists. Put them to work let them build the country again give them some sense of worth. If they own they will be less likely to tear it down. (Kind of like if Southcentral was Suburbanized. Maybe... Possible.... but I digress).
6) Initiate talks with Iran.... WHAT YOU SAY? They at one time were the pinnacle of westernization in the Middle East and virtually owned by the U.S. I keep reading reports how the "Middle Class" of Iran is becoming unhappy with the Mulahs and Sheiks and may be willing to talk. We should do everything in our power to get Iran back. I believe that they are still a key to the middle east.
6) Cut the American Myopia. Time to recognize that as short term memoried that we are the rest of the world is not. See how surprised we were when China kicked us out after we were so friendly to them with our open door policy. Or how the captures of the U.S Embassy in Iran in 1979 all recalled our ouster of Mossadadq in 1953 as a ralliing cry for what they did. Other countries do not believe our anti-cold war crusade was a benefit and we should accept that. (See Allende and Chile in 1973 for more proof of our Real Politik, as Kissinger smugly replied, "we set limits on diversity.") These actions are not forgotten world wide and must be dealt with.
7) Only after we have dealt with number 6 do I believe that the good Iraqi's will begin to be more vocal. They are victims of propaganda just as you and I are the see the way they were left in Gulf War I and the remember our handling of the Suez 1957, the Yom Kippur war or the 67 war of our failures in Camp David etc. we should not expect them to trust us just because we say we are bringing liberty and freedom.
8) Recognize that their culture does not believe in the same notions our forefathers believed in. Instilled in them was renaissance thinking of equality that even though was not true at the time was something that we could at least strive for. First men, then woman and then minorities all siezing the mantle of Jefferson , Madison et al. and using them as their giants to stand on. The Muslim culture forbids such equality and some as the fundamentalist change in Iran beginning about 1975 saw women who were at once allowed to go to school to be doctors and scientists quitting school only to wear the vail and give up those freedoms and submit to the inequality of Islamic law. We saw it as them doing at their own peril they saw it as their last free choice.
9) Come clean about Saudi Arabia. Much of the antagonism we have in this country is the mystery that surrounds that nation. If they have pictures of Uncle Sam fellating a mule let's get it out in the open so we can end this feeling that we are being blackmailed. (and talk about beheadings they love doing that in Saudi Arabia). Without the U.S. I believe fundamentalism would be running that nation. So in effect we are propping up and unpopular Monarchy against the wishes of the majority. This flies in the face of what we say we are for and leads to discontent and distrust.
10) OIL--what lies at the crux of this hatred has to do with I think a feeling of... You think our culture is **** but for our oil you act as if it is OKAY, when in reality they know and we know that we think they are a backward race. The only reason we don't blow them up is because they would blow up the oil on their way out. Again this feeds the mistrust and animosity.

10 Steps to solving the Iraqi/ Terrorist question.

All the Muslims should be converted to peace lovin' right wing Christ lovin' Republicans.

terrorism is possibly the biggest threat to world safety. I'm talking at the level of the ability for regular people to enjoy and have a peaceful life.

Terrorist (amazingly mostly muslim based) are a threat in every non-muslim country.

Think of the kidnapping in the Philliphines, train bombings in Spain, etc.

Why doesn't the media ever connect the dots and portray the real enemy to freedom, which are terrorist. Instead they go after Bush, who not perfect, but is engaged in a battle to fight them.

I've noticed every comment to your post is a fargin wise crack. Perhaps some people have lost the ability to think about the issue instead of being wrapped up in politic.

Firstly, do you agree that terrorism is a major issue to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not only in America but in the world. What non-muslim country is free from their hatred and will to kill innocents? I think none.

Assuming you agree, what do you think should or could be done to stop them?

I think these are the questions that really need to be asked and discussed rather than flaming with your friends on the hate Bush thread. Let me know what you think.
What needs to be done

I'm not scared. When my time is up then it's up. I say F the Terrorists. I'm not going to live in fear. I'd also know how Bush is doing anything to stop the flood of terrorist activity any more than anyone else would. The very nature of terrorists makes them very resistant to conventional methods of control.

even in your first point.

Have you ever read the PLO charter. Here it is: http://lib1.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/plocha~1.htm

Check out article 15. I'd like you to solve that.

My point being that the Muslims aren't looking to be your friend. It's in their charter, it's in their religion. Death to the infidel, and that's you, unless you become muslim.

Bottom line, which you ignore, out of either will or ignorance, is that muslims aren't your friends, will never be your friends and will not settle for "can't we just agree to disagree".

Realize this. The non-muslim world has to come to a resolution on how to deal with muslim doctrine, which is based on violence, not peace.

They view your way of life and your freedoms as an abomination. I hope you can get some inkling of that. THey hate you, your mother, your neighbors and everyone who's not a muslim.

They hate your music, your dress, your speech, virtually everything about your culture.

By the way, they hate homosexuals and kill adulters and those that have premartial sex, things which I'm sure are near and dear to your vision of freedom.

They are your enemy and my question to you is, how are you going to deal with them.

Your ignorance and generalizations about Islam are laughable. The curse of the Infidel didn't come into the religion until many generations after Mohammed died--and then mostly in response to Christian agression toward their religion and culture. Sound familiar? http://www.mediareviewnet.com/The%20curse%20of%20the%20infidel.htm

with them is simple. They have no desire to live in peace with anyone.

The liberal notion of agreeing to disagree is not acceptable to them. It's not a decision that, in their minds, is man made, but God directed.

Every person knows people can change, but in the muslim view, God never changes and he hates non-muslims and their whole way of life. It's an abomination to him and his followers. The penalty is death.

So we agree that liberal notions and ideas of negotiation are meaningless to them (which is a big step), now how should we deal with them. They are killing and plotting to kill us everyday. If there was no military, no CIA, no FBI, etc. to stop them, they would.

I'm thankful for the military, the CIA, FBA, law enforcement, etc. because without them we'd be dead.

We are in a new era and people have to realize it. We may and maybe should, give up some freedoms to protect the majority. Racial profiling, I'm all for it. Spying, sounds fine to me. Holding the terrorists without trial, fine by me. Death penalty and quickly for terrorist acts, definately.

Flip...you are confusing some sick fringe terrorists with mainstream Islam. It's not the same thing. It would be kind of like me saying all Christians were like Jim Jones cult in Guyana. There are fringes to every religion. The neocons want you to be afraid. To think that the US has the divine right to kill Muslims at will because they "might" be terrorists. Did you even read the article link I gave you? It's the Christians that created much of this mess in the first place by declaring holy war on them! Looks like it's starting all over again and your comments make me think there are plenty out there brainwashed into believing it. Why are you scared? Just because Bush told you terrorists might attack? What a sad way to live your life.

or Spanish people riding the train. Was that some illusion?

What about nightclubs being bombed or kidnappings all over the place.

Just curious if you are being realistic.

Certainly the numbers are small, but they are real.

This is not Christian brainwashing. It just knowing your enemy.

By the way, how do you know the muslim that's your friend really isn't a terrorist or would turn into one. Just curious.

they believe in open revelation. Meaning, any officially supported change in the doctrine is MORE valid than previous belief or doctrine.

You need to understand your religion, which is what they are, before you speak (as if you knew what you were talking about).

They will not love you. Their character has changed and become more military and warring.

There was a day when I wouldn't care much because I and Jews would be safe, but even that protection is gone. I'd die just like you. All because of open revelation, you should learn about it.

This just needs a picture of Jesus on the wall.

All the Muslims should be converted to peace lovin' right wing Christ lovin' Republicans.

You just can't move on toward something productive.

Point is, muslims can't live in peace with anyone who is not muslim. Everyone else is a pagan or polytheist and the method dealing with those is death or submission by them.

Here's an NPR gem for you. Short and sweet. http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1043196

moderate muslims are tolerated for their usefulness, but true muslims have no issue with killing them or the Saud family if they broke off from fundamentalism or the support of it.

even in your first point.

Have you ever read the PLO charter. Here it is: http://lib1.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/plocha~1.htm

Check out article 15. I'd like you to solve that.

My point being that the Muslims aren't looking to be your friend. It's in their charter, it's in their religion. Death to the infidel, and that's you, unless you become muslim.

Bottom line, which you ignore, out of either will or ignorance, is that muslims aren't your friends, will never be your friends and will not settle for "can't we just agree to disagree".

Realize this. The non-muslim world has to come to a resolution on how to deal with muslim doctrine, which is based on violence, not peace.

They view your way of life and your freedoms as an abomination. I hope you can get some inkling of that. THey hate you, your mother, your neighbors and everyone who's not a muslim.

They hate your music, your dress, your speech, virtually everything about your culture.

By the way, they hate homosexuals and kill adulters and those that have premartial sex, things which I'm sure are near and dear to your vision of freedom.

They are your enemy and my question to you is, how are you going to deal with them.

You and I will have to agree to disagree. I am of the notion that much of the Middle East is disaffected because they are powerless and therefore prone to follow corruption that offers them light at the end of the tunnel. As for my number one point. I suggest that peace hinges on it. It is the nail to hang the picture on the wall so to speak. I feel that the PLO needs regime change since Arafat has proven himself unapproachable for real peace brokerage. Dealing with the muslim religion is a concern but I believe that if changes are made in eduction and intellectualism than perhaps those people will cut the circle of violence. Further these same people may become responsible to affect change in their own governments. Remember in the Christian Testaments their are many instances that we now call "symbolism" which at one time were accepted as Biblical law. The intelligensia of the Muslim must convince the masses that Muslim Law exists at some level as parable to teach lessons but not as ultimate accountability. With that then the growth of civil law can grow to what I believe to be the proper place as titular head of ordered societies.

As I have written, I believe in "indoctrination" and the closing of the education of hate "madrases."

Flip...you are confusing some sick fringe terrorists with mainstream Islam. It's not the same thing. It would be kind of like me saying all Christians were like Jim Jones cult in Guyana. There are fringes to every religion. The neocons want you to be afraid. To think that the US has the divine right to kill Muslims at will because they "might" be terrorists. Did you even read the article link I gave you? It's the Christians that created much of this mess in the first place by declaring holy war on them! Looks like it's starting all over again and your comments make me think there are plenty out there brainwashed into believing it. Why are you scared? Just because Bush told you terrorists might attack? What a sad way to live your life.

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

Steven Weinberg (1933 - )

Don't confuse scared with concerned. Bush didn't have to say a dam thing to me about terrorists when I saw the towers fall or the carnage in Madrid. That wasnt a "might happen" it happened. This Neocon crap you and others bandy about is about as interesting and relevant as watching Yankee fans and Bosox fans argue in a bar. I ask you, have you been "touched" by terrorism? Odds are probably not. Statistically, you are safe. How comforting.

"A liberal is a person whose interests aren't at stake at the moment."
Willis Player

Terrorists will exploit our liberties and open society to kill us, they did it in New York. They did it in Spain. They will do it again. I agree with the posts above about the problems in the middle east, of which we as a country and world need to solve. These things will take time, maybe much time. So what do we do in the mean time? Sit back and say "Well, I guess we had it coming?"

I am setting here in a little town in West Michigan, better odds that I would be killed in a car crash after I leave my computer this morning than die from a terrorist act. But I am still concerned about terrorisim in my country. I wept on 9/11. Bush or the "Neocons" didn't influence my concerns or tears.

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

Steven Weinberg (1933 - )

Don't confuse scared with concerned. Bush didn't have to say a dam thing to me about terrorists when I saw the towers fall or the carnage in Madrid. That wasnt a "might happen" it happened. This Neocon crap you and others bandy about is about as interesting and relevant as watching Yankee fans and Bosox fans argue in a bar. I ask you, have you been "touched" by terrorism? Odds are probably not. Statistically, you are safe. How comforting.

"A liberal is a person whose interests aren't at stake at the moment."
Willis Player

Terrorists will exploit our liberties and open society to kill us, they did it in New York. They did it in Spain. They will do it again. I agree with the posts above about the problems in the middle east, of which we as a country and world need to solve. These things will take time, maybe much time. So what do we do in the mean time? Sit back and say "Well, I guess we had it coming?"

I am setting here in a little town in West Michigan, better odds that I would be killed in a car crash after I leave my computer this morning than die from a terrorist act. But I am still concerned about terrorisim in my country. I wept on 9/11. Bush or the "Neocons" didn't influence my concerns or tears.


dah dddahhhhhh!!!!!!

the next step in restructuring the middle east is here. you have to give it to the man, he's a big idea big dreamin pres like ronnie. i love it. france is complaining so it must be a doable idea and the leftist euro journalist wannabes are mad. as a bonus, it drives the libbys crazy and makes them doubt and complain just like the 80's!! where are my parachute pants?!


http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1235377,00.html

Bush opens new rift over Middle East plan

Back to the original topic. The State department is now admitting an OOps turns out terrorism wasn't down in 2003 turns out they only included part of the year rather than the whole year, seems like an easy enough mistake I mean there is New Year's day and then christmas in July and then we do it all over again right? Is there anything more fun than seeing the administration back pedal.

They do it about as well as when I was 17 and my parents found a jug of wine under my bed.

"Uh it was a friends, uh I don't even like the taste, no, I don't drink. well I know what it looks like, stammer stammer stammer..."

or Spanish people riding the train. Was that some illusion?

What about nightclubs being bombed or kidnappings all over the place.

Just curious if you are being realistic.

Certainly the numbers are small, but they are real.

This is not Christian brainwashing. It just knowing your enemy.

By the way, how do you know the muslim that's your friend really isn't a terrorist or would turn into one. Just curious.
believe Saddam was the guy who did the dirty deeds on 9-11. Talk about BRAINWASHING!!

Is there anything more fun than seeing the administration back pedal.

Which administration are you talking about? This one, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before all the back way to Washington.

Really, reading what you Bush Bashers or Dem Bashers have to say is like watching old re-runs on TV.

We get it................... can't you find something else to talk about that hasnt already been said?

"Politics is made up largely of irrelevancies."
Dalton Camp

Rah Rah... Let's Bash Bush... Rah Rah ... Let's Bash Bush. Its B O R I N G.

Which administration are you talking about? This one, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before all the back way to Washington.

Really, reading what you Bush Bashers or Dem Bashers have to say is like watching old re-runs on TV.

We get it................... can't you find something else to talk about that hasnt already been said?

"Politics is made up largely of irrelevancies."
Dalton Camp

Rah Rah... Let's Bash Bush... Rah Rah ... Let's Bash Bush. Its B O R I N G.

Any administration will do. I had a great laugh at the Clinton, "As a matter a fact I did have...and it was WRONG." This just in we knew. But seeing how this administration's titular head is hard pressed to find any errors that he has made. This is pretty funny as well.