New thread as the last one got locked down.
**On that topic - there are some people that clearly dislike BikesDirect.com. God bless them, everyone has likes and dislikes and reasons for them. This thread will be what I think of MY experience. It is not about their competition as far as internet sellers. It is not about internet vs LBS. It is not BD's marketing, list prices, etc . . . there are plenty of rants on here about those and people can use a search function. If anyone is considering buying from BD I would recommend doing those searches (here and other sites) to see what people think. I did before I bought and I read some things that made me uneasy, but in the end I made this choice.
I do not have the bike yet. This post is neither positive or negative yet. I am going to be totally honest.
Lets try to keep this civil - I accept responsibility for the other thread getting locked.
**

I ordered on last Wednesday night. It shipped out Friday. Ideally, being an internet retailer with these things ready to go in boxes (I assume this is the case) I would like to have seen it ship the next business day. Tracking said it would be here today.
I got the call from UPS yesterday . . . there is a package coming today that will require a signature. Luckily, my mother watches my two girls at my house on Wednesdays.

Last night I got a really nice bike stand on loan from DEKIndy. I met him near my house where he meets with several riders for a training ride. They were firing up all their lights - it was so dark I could not see what bikes they had . . . though I was trying. I assume DEK explained to them I was getting an internet bike, and I hope he posts their reaction.

I put my digital camera battery on the charger when I left this morning. I will make sure one of my free image hosting sites is ready to go. I plan on taking pics of everything from start to finish.

The plan is to put it together myself. There does not appear to be much to it, and I have the following resources:
2 books from the library.
1 DVD and toolkit from bikeisland.com (to be very clear this site is related to BD.com - they pointed me to it and some internet sites with info I might need). The toolkit is some tire irons (I know there is a better name for these), allen wrenches and 15mm pedal wrench (I think that is what it is).
Quick review on the DVD so far(only watched part of it):
It comes in DVD and CD formats, which is nice.
The production quality is a guy in a garage (door open as there is a lot of evening nature noise) with a modest quality DV cam. It is plenty clear and fine for the money paid. It is just not a professional production.

More coming soon.

I ordered on last Wednesday night. It shipped out Friday. Ideally, being an internet retailer with these things ready to go in boxes (I assume this is the case) I would like to have seen it ship the next business day. Tracking said it would be here today.
I got the call from UPS yesterday . . . there is a package coming today that will require a signature. Luckily, my mother watches my two girls at my house on Wednesdays.

.

greg

Thanks for the post and the order
I look forward to your report, as I did not intervene in the order at all, so I want to see how my people did.

Reason I am posting response here is Credit Card processing. Charges on bikesdirect take 24 hours to settle thru processor. On small items like on bikeisland it does not matter, we just ship. On big ticket items like bikes on bikesdirect; we ship after settlement is confirmed.

So if you order of Wednesday
Credit Card charge is confirmed thru our processor on Thursday
The order is processed and picked for UPS pickup on Friday

Orders on our ebay accounts are mostly paid via paypal which is quicker and bikes are picked & shipped the next business day.

Boring business details, but as you point out it effects consumers by 24 hours when clearing thru athorized.net [largest processor of internet CC trans and the one we use on bikesdirect site]

thanks again
mike

Bike is at my house . . . ugggh . . . I am stuck at work in the middle of a heated issue with nurses, radiologists, and management (I work in IT at a hospital). Fun fun fun.

At least it is raining like mad here, no real chance for riding tonight anyway (being as new as I am, I am not going to take my brand new bike on a long rainy dark ride). Yes, I am sure I will get to the point I will ride in anything (I run with a headlamp most mornings in any weather) but I am not there yet.

Also, my wife is not very happy with my expenditure. I might spend the night in the basement with my bike for a number of reasons.

Also, my wife is not very happy with my expenditure. I might spend the night in the basement with my bike for a number of reasons.

LOL

Just tell her that if it's a lot of Fun you will get her a nice bike so she can ride with you.
And if that doesn't work, I'd go for flowers

mike

Flowers may not do the trick, might have to think along the lines of something a little more expensive.

I bought my wife a new road bike first. . . . Then she pretty much had to put up with it when I wanted one equally good for myself!

#1 - I am at home and the bike is up on the stand, handlebars are on, and am at a stopping point. My 10 month old wants some attention. Thats the way she wants it and well, thats the way she gets it. :). As cool as the new bike is, she is cooler.

#2 - my wife. None of the normal tatics work on her. Spending money is the issue - if I get her anything it will be worse. I could beg her to go out shopping, I will take the kids, and tell her to buy anything and everything she wants. She will come home with a drink from starbucks at most. I spend, she does not. She keeps me out of trouble for the most part.

Sorry, back to bike.
My box seemed totally untouched by UPS - very good shape. Everything popped out of the box in essentially 2 parts - 1 big cluster with nearly everything zip tied together and one small box of other stuff. First thing is that BD.com overdelivers. This bike was not sold with pedals - it came with them. Yeah, lower end SPD, but that is $30 less I will have to spend. It is what I want for right now - I have SPD cleats and shoes from my MTB and I cannot swing new good road pedals right now. See above post about wife.
The bike came with DA brake calipers, though the listing had cane creek. I am very happy about that.

GOT TO RUN . . . baby wanting more foord

Pics coming before night is over . . . I promise.

This thing is nicer than any of the bikes I looked at in the stores. Yeah, the bikes I was looking at did not have DA and this level of rims, etc . . . but the frame. This frame has better welds and finish than anything I looked at. I really like the look - much better than the web site.

Ok, I am having some issues getting it setup. Not exactly the 20 minutes Mike predicted. :D I expect as such. The bike is essentially built and I am not tuning. I got the breaks out of the way - some websites and the DVD helped with that (websites more than DVD).
Then on to front detailer. I need some help here. I cannot get it spot on. In either front ring I can adjust it (via H and L screws) to be good at one side of the rear gears but by the time I get to the other end it is rubbing on the front. Help, tips, etc?

I will get to the rear soon.

I suggest that you go to a bookstore and buy a bike repair manual. That will give you info you are going to need for all of your bikes - including how to adjust the derailleurs.

For what it's worth, I think the new 10-speed cassettes are more finicky to adjust than the 9-speed setup of yesteryear. But they do work well once they are tuned in.

Good luck.

Step 1 - arrives at door. It came when it was supposed to, required sig as expected.
Box is in great shape. I made it across the country via UPS with not even a dent in the box.
Step 2 - unbox. Easy to get out. First off, there are none of the large box staples on the top end, which is nice. Just tape.
It comes out in 2 main parts, one blob of most of the bike zip tied together. One small box with pedals, front skewer, reflectors, manuals, etc. All main parts of bike are well protected wiht cardboard.
Step 3 - I cut all zip ties and got everything ready to go.

First I put in the seatpost. This is so I could clamp this thing in the stand.
Then it is time to attach the stem to handlebars and then stem to fork. Stem to handlebar was a snap. Puttng stem on fork was a bit more challenging. There are spacers to get the height as needed. I was not sure if the fork was supposed to be a bit recessed into the stem or a bit above the stem. Got that figured out.
Put on front brake. Put on front wheel. Easy enough.
Adjust brakes . . . easy but took some time. Got them with what I think is the proper amount of play.
Now to derailers. Front first. I spin my wheels for a while dealing with cross gearing . . . which it turns out just is going to suck on a modern 10 speed bike. What I mean is largest front to smallest rear or the opposite.
Got the front where I think it should be.
Got the rear where I think it should be. I am sure both of these will be tweeked as I get on it.
Put on pedals.
Put on seat.
Adjust bars, seat.
Pump Tires.

For me, this was about 3 hours of work . . . but it was at a casual pace with a lot of research.

Now to the bike:
The resident BD hater will say that it is easy to be happy when you have low expectations. Well, I had high expectations based on many PMs with Mike. This think killed my expectations. Some parts were better than advertised (see above) and the frame looks so much better than I expected. I was talking about replacing the frame in the future, maybe even this xmas. Its build quality is better than any frame I looked at in local LBS'. Welds are perfect. Frame feels very stiff, but clearly I can only tell a little without taking it out and getting on it. Decals are much better than I thought, I will not be removing or covering. The decal on the fork is not as great looking. I think the white edging on that decal that I do not like. Bottom tube is larger and more shaped than the pic shows.
Rims are farily true - nearly dead on. I am going to ride them some and then take this in to get the rims trued and all setup checked.

Bad:
Very little as of tonight. The wire on the front break is about 2 feet too long (just the metal inner part). No big deal. The wire cover for the real brake on the top tupe (in between two guides) is too short - does not meat guide on both sides. Looks a little cheap.
To me, the front break should have been installed before shipping, but there might be a good reason for that.

I cannot wait to show others this bike. There is no way any could touch something this good for anything near $1500.

So far, I cannot say enough about BD.com or this bike. Mike replied and helped my with a derailer. He has answered every question.

The proof is in the pudding, so we shall see over time.

Greg

Pics:

http://picasaweb.google.com/greg.golightly/Cycle

Thanks for the post and good pics. The set up is a little more than I thought. The frame welds look clean. The bottom FSA headset cup looks upside down though. $1500? I've got that much in my 105 Trek Pilot 2.1.

What size is your bike? I am curious as to how much it weighs?
Thank you for posting your buying experience.

WTF?

http://i4.tinypic.com/2lt20pc.jpg

WTF?

http://i4.tinypic.com/2lt20pc.jpg


This is the Label required by Law that says "MADE IN TAIWAN"

It appears Greg has Tied to remove it, and found it hard to do.
The solution is 'goo gone' or even a little WD-40 and srape with finger nail

You will find that eventhough these labels are required when delivered to customers; that about half the shops in the USA take them off in the back when setting up the bike. Thus there are many let us say Trek dealers where you never see a Trek with a MADE IN CHINA decal - even though half the bikes on the floor are Made In China.
What makes me a little hot about this practice is: many dealers includimg lots that are close to my stores train their employees to give a canned answer to 'where is it made?'. It is very common customer asks "Where is this bike made?" and they are told "It is designed in the USA". Which is of course not an answer. Worse there are several dealers that just say "It is made here: Trek is an American Company".
This whole issue kind of burns me up.

Anyway - that is what the sticker is in the picture - particaly pealed off County of origin sticker.

WTF?




Mr Covenant; to be fair I think you should have also posted this as a WTF question; that way you could of registered your surprise that not only is the group on this bike insane for the price; but also the frame work is better than you normally see.

No secret here - I use the same frame builders as Trek, Speciailized, Felt, Fuji, etc --- and then on bikes 105 / Ultegra and up -- I pay the extra $6 to $10 to have the most expensive weld finish. {by the way - Silver bikes show every little thing - good and bad -- if you want to hind the workmanship use only real dark colors - BLACK is best for covering 'sins'.

I totally meant to post that I took that sticker off the front and did not get the goo-gone out. The sticker was not ugly, I just made the choice to take it off. Any and all decals can do that. I did not take the time to use goo gone last night . . . and I forgot to post that when I did the pics. My time was running out last night as I had to put the girls to bed and try to stay in good graces with the wife. :)

Someone explain to me the cup being upside down. I am corn-fused.

It looks like the factory installed two top cups for the headset. The "FSA" should not be upside down. The top and bottom cups are the same(other than the lettering) so it won't effect performance

It looks like the factory installed two top cups for the headset. The "FSA" should not be upside down. The top and bottom cups are the same(other than the lettering) so it won't effect performance


Dave - you are right

The cups are the same.

I think everyone will find this funny; when you think about it.

Used to you would see a fair number of Specialized, Fuji, Trek, Motobecane, etc decals on the DT that were stuck on upside down. My shop guys would sometimes ask me 'are these factories stupid?'
Finally, I started handing people a little piece of news clipped out of a paper from Taiwan.
Please turn this right side up, I would ask. You get the point real quick.

The Decal problem is fixed with little arrows on the decal sheets. But cups top and bottom are the same.

FSA does not look any funnier upside down than right side up; if you are used to reading mandarin.

By the way, Dave – will you post your experience with bikesdirect? I do not know what you will say, but I think it would be nice if you post it.

Thanks
mike

I will get the weight tonight. It will be with pedals.
Size is a 56.

Also, I have 2 books on bike repair that were helpful. They are from the library . . . I am trying to see a few different ones and see which one I like best and will go buy it. Also, I am going to take some classes at the LBS - sounds fun.

I'll be happy to post a review of the Windsor The Hour fixed gear. I should receive it next week.

I'll be happy to post a review of the Windsor The Hour fixed gear. I should receive it next week.


Dave

I think you will find UPS does not mess with Texas
And that you will get your bike today {everywhere else takes 2 to 4 days}

Please let me know if you do not



mike

That would be great...I'll let you know

It looks like the factory installed two top cups for the headset. The "FSA" should not be upside down. The top and bottom cups are the same(other than the lettering) so it won't effect performance

Thank you.

That's what I was pointing out with the pic I posted....But I guess it was as an obvious a mistake to Mike as it was to the assembler in Tiawan.

The welds are quite nice and smooth. A lot better than the snotacular ones you usually see on ebay...*Cough* fetish *Cough* :thumbsup:

It weighs 17lbs unofficially with pedals (low end SPD pedals). This was with a person scale (albeit a high end tenaka with .1 increments). Stand on it two times without bike - get weight. Stand on it two times with.

To me this thing is a feather, but my ony reference is a MTB that was very heavy.


I got to ride it today - a few miles in light rain. Mainly ride a few miles, then adjust stem, seat, bars, etc. Got it to where I think it is right for me.
It rides better than any bike I tried locally. Very stiff and fast. Of course, road bikes feel like high strung sport cars. I cannot believe how fast these things (all road bikes) ride. My subdivision has a lot of questionable pavement and well, you feel it (compared to a MTB bike with full suspension).

It felt very stiff - every inch of it. Much more so that some of the $1300-$1600 bikes I road locally. It felt weird to stand and try to punch it as much as I could. It felt like everything was going to the road, even making me a bit nervous. The great part is that every ride of a road bike I make huge leaps in being comfy.

Question on bars . . . how should these be angled? Most pics I see have them roughly parallel to the level top bar . . . as far as the top flat part that is moving forward to the hoods (total lack of how to describe this).

Greg

Thank you for posting the weight. The ad said 16.3 lbs, so it should be right on, assuming the 300 grams or.660 lbs pedal weights.:thumbsup:

I've been undecided between the Motobecane SL and the Mercier Draco with full DA for 2 more Benjamins. Am trying to figure out the 1 lb. difference betwen the two. Wheels are both 1500 grams, lighter tires for the SL, both have WCS cockpit, seatpost similar, saddle should be more on the Draco, crankset should be awash?? DA drivetrain should be lighter. I wonder if the frame and fork of the SL are lighter?

I am enamored with a full DA but a 15.3 lbs bike is attractive to me. Anyway, I still have until the 30th to decide:smilewinkgrin:

Thank you.

That's what I was pointing out with the pic I posted....But I guess it was as an obvious a mistake to Mike as it was to the assembler in Tiawan.

The welds are quite nice and smooth. A lot better than the snotacular ones you usually see on ebay...*Cough* fetish *Cough* :thumbsup:

Sorry, I thought your WTF was on the label
I see so many bikes with cups like that, it didn't even register with me
As Dave pointed out - the top and bottom cup are the same except for direction of letters

Thanks for the comment on the welds

mike

Weights listed on the site are for size 50cm. I was thinking mine would actually be a bit more in weight than 17lbs - but again this was not on a true bike scale.

I went back and forth between those two bikes many times in my head . . . same struggles - weight, full DA, $200. I think the SL is lighter for a few reasons. I think the rims are lighter and I think the frame and fork are lighter. The rims are one of the reason I went the other way. I just read mixed reviews on them specifically (and other similar lightweight rims) and them having some durability issues. I wanted a bit more bulletproof.

To me, this is the way to go for $200 more. There just is nothing to upgrade component wise unless you want carbon bars. Well, upgrade the seat, but that will be case on any bike. It is not like this is a lot heavier, just a hair.

Nice workstand! I don't understand the comments about the headset. I do know that Matthews put mine back together wrong and BGI discovered it when I took it in for a tune-up. I don't know if it was because it was an older one that they were not familiar with, but I noticed a big improvement when they corrected it. It is just prudent to get everything checked out. Not a knock on BicyclesDirect, I think you have received great value. It is just prudent to have it looked over by a professional.

if you look at the pic of the front of the headset (the one with the sticker peeled off) - look at the bottom of the headset. You will notice the lettering on the cut is upside down.

" . . . The rims [on the Le Champion SL] are one of the reason I went the other way. I just read mixed reviews on them specifically (and other similar lightweight rims) and them having some durability issues. I wanted a bit more bulletproof."

Let me toss in my 2 cents. I've got American Classic 350s on my SL and have been banging them on some pretty rough roads for the past year. They have remained true throughout the year and show no signs of stress or wear. Admittedly, I'm skinny and light, but I think the rims now being used on the SL are a little heavier and thus even more solid.

I am sure you are right. Let me be clear - I am a total n00b to road biking. As such, I could put 0% of personal experience into things. I read as much as I could and made a choice. I am sure that in a year I will have different views. I am heavier than you I would guess (175 and I need to be about 165). I hope no one takes my decision as good advice for their decision.

Thanks for sharing your real world perspective. That helps me and others I am sure.

I have the 05 LeChamp SL. I found the AC 350s to be finicky. I needed them trued and the hubs adjusted about twice a year. They tended to be a bit flexy when dieseling up hills. At about 3,000 km the front hub was shot. (I'm 175# and not hard on my equipment.) AC agreed to "look at it" if I sent the hub in to them. Instead, I sold the wheels to a kid in my LBS and bought a pair of DT Swiss wheels and hubs...lightly used but built by Mike Garcia. I'm expecting much more durability out of them.

Am I unhappy with the AC wheels? Not really. I never expected the wheels to last very long, so it was just part of the package. They were fun while they lasted, but I won't buy any more AC products.

" . . . The rims [on the Le Champion SL] are one of the reason I went the other way. I just read mixed reviews on them specifically (and other similar lightweight rims) and them having some durability issues. I wanted a bit more bulletproof."

Let me toss in my 2 cents. I've got American Classic 350s on my SL and have been banging them on some pretty rough roads for the past year. They have remained true throughout the year and show no signs of stress or wear. Admittedly, I'm skinny and light, but I think the rims now being used on the SL are a little heavier and thus even more solid.

Weight may well be the issue on the AC350s. I weigh about 145. If I remember correctly, though, this year's Le Champion SL uses a stouter wheel -- AC450s (or some number like that).

We need some more full bike pics.

I should get my Mercier Draco today, I will post pictures as soon as it arrives. I will not be riding this bike but will strip all the parts for an upcoming Pedal Force RS build (this was the BikeForums group buy frameset). It will be a 56cm frame and I will be able to give you an accurate indication of the frame weight.

I will take some more pics

Also - more updates. I road quite a bit over the holiday weekend - the weather in Indy was so nice.

One thing that most of these bikes come with is too much housing for the cables - between the shifters/brakes and the frame. As such, the assemblers routed them over the bars. Everything was totaly functional, I just did not like how it looked.
As such I bought a set of park Tools cutters and learned cable routing!
I trimmed down the length and made it all nice and pretty. I messed up one internal cable (front derailer) from playing with it too much. $5 for a new DA cable. I did not have to change the rear derailer internal cable . . . that would have been more confusing I am sure - that little gear indicator (I think only DA's have this, but not sure) caused me some confusion as it was, but I figured it out.

One thing that I LOVE about this bike that many would clearly consider a downside (and they are right - it just depends on the person) is how much I have learned about bikes in 2 weeks. I am now very comfy with adjusting derailers, brakes, cables, and more.

I was able to head to about the most hilly area around Indy - Eagle Creek Park. I rode for an hour or two and got some great experience. #1 - downhills with turns. I am a n00b and as such a bit tenative - but hitting 30mph with turns was a bit nerve racking. After a few it was not bad at all. Remember, I am a runner, all biking seems fast.
I worked on climbing as well - I will say that I needed the 27 rear cog with my DA crank (full size double) a few times. I was fine with that gear. Most of the time I was able to use the 25 rear. As a n00b, part of me thinks a triple (Ultegra) would have been a smart buy, but I was fine with this setup for now and I am only going to get much better and stronger. Hills are not going to get much worse where I will be riding in the near future. Next summer I will head to southern Indiana for some greater challenges. Now I think I would not be able to handle that, but I think next summer I will be good.

I am loving this bike so much. It rides great, is light, good looking, etc.

My xmas list is full of bike stuff and I will be getting some rollers for the winter.

Indy: I have a set of Nashbar alloy rollers purchased a couple months ago if you're interested. I've ridden them only 2-3 times and paid $100. I'm recovering from a broken leg and looking more for strength than technique at this point, so bought a stationary instead. I live in Wisconsin, but make it to Indy (actually Crawfordsville) pretty often. Let me know if you're interested... Mark

Weight of the 56cm frame with headset and rear derailleur hanger. I did not get a chance to remove the headset, everything else was stripped off the frame.

1430g, not exactly weight weenie but not bad considering. I am guessing that without headset the weight is closer to 1380-1390g (3 pounds 1 ounce).

I did not weigh the fork. It has an alloy steerer.

Actual weight without headset is 1355g (2 lbs 15.75 oz.)

Was it hard to remove the BB? I have always cursed a factory installed external BB, as they always seem to over torque them and always seem to skimp on the grease.

I should get my Mercier Draco today, I will post pictures as soon as it arrives. I will not be riding this bike but will strip all the parts for an upcoming Pedal Force RS build (this was the BikeForums group buy frameset). It will be a 56cm frame and I will be able to give you an accurate indication of the frame weight.

I was in the same boat. I SOOOO also contemplated doing the same, i.e., buy the Draco for the drivetrain, and craigslist everything else i did not need....

but just could not justify having more frames in the house.

Good for you though!

One thing that I LOVE about this bike that many would clearly consider a downside (and they are right - it just depends on the person) is how much I have learned about bikes in 2 weeks. I am now very comfy with adjusting derailers, brakes, cables, and more.



For me there is no satisfaction better then doing something myself. I am not cheap......


...like many here, I can easily pay my LBS to do it... but what fun would that be?

BB removal wasn't too bad. I uses a dead-blow mallet (it has some sort of beads inside it so the head doesn't bounce when striking something). and I used my Park BB tool. The Park tool has a longer handle than the tool supplied by BD. About 4 light blows with the mallet and the BB was out.

Here are some pics of the frame with all parts removed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/bhmmrtn/Bicycles/Other/_G1S1155.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/bhmmrtn/Bicycles/Other/_G1S1154.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/bhmmrtn/Bicycles/Other/_G1S1152.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/bhmmrtn/Bicycles/Other/_G1S1151.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/bhmmrtn/Bicycles/Other/_G1S1150.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/bhmmrtn/Bicycles/Other/_G1S1149.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/bhmmrtn/Bicycles/Other/_G1S1148.jpg

As you can see the welds are pretty good. The paint job is okay, with a very thin layer of clearcoat. So thin that I was still able to pull off the decals with a little help from a blow dryer. BD does supply an additional derailleur hanger and the Dura-Ace cable stops. The stops are not needed since the frame has brazed on stops, but they would come in handy if you are going to use this as a parts bike, like I am. As mentioned before this particular frame weighs in at 1355g with the derailleur hanger in place.

I took a look at the fork and the Mercier logo is painted on so it would take some work with acetone to remove it. It is a standard alloy steerer carbon fork, nothing special.

Everything on the bike was Dura-Ace even the brakeset although the specs list Cane Creek as the supplied brakeset. The chain is a KMC with a quick link. A good choice compared the the Dura-Ace chain with it's stupid little must replace pins.

BTW mine also came with two top races for the headset, so the FSA lettering was upside down on the bottom race.

My bikes direct experience was a very good one. I bought a Le Champion SL to part out but the bike was so nice I had to ride it for the summer. It came in at 16 lbs plus a touch.
My quibbles were: I don't like the way they size the bike, the seat tube is measured center to Top of seat tube, not center to top of toptube "like a Fuji." CTC was 52cm on the 54cm bike. Because the seat tube was so short, the head tube was really short too. The TT fortunately was (too long for a 52cm bike): 55cm for the seat tube, so that at least I wasn't cramped in the cockpit. Ultimately the problem was the short head tube. If it had been built as a semi sloping frame like the Fuji like it was advertised, this wouldn't have been a problem. The head tube would have been tall enough.
My second quibble was when I inquired if I could purchase a new fork (I cracked my steerer tube) I didn't get a response. I tried a 43 degree fork but the steering was very slow (the bike is already stable with it's supplied 45o fork.) Because 45 degree rakes are rare in after market forks it hastened my selling off of the frame.

My advice is that you really know the geometry on these bikes before you buy. Of course that is my advise on buying any bike. Otherwise BD was a very good experience.

Am I the only one who noticed the cabling job doesn't look right?? You've got cable housing snaking over the top of the handlebar and stem...

yep - all of them are assembled with too long housing, so they route over the top. Looks bad, but really it does not affect performanace at all. That said, I (like most others) fix it or have it fixed. One of my favorite things about this experience is how I have learned more about my bike and how to fix it. The derailers were nearly spot on, but I re-did them. I re-routed the cables (and cut them to length). I did the same with the brakes.

Some will think of this as clearly trying to spin a negative (having to do work on a new bike) and that is partially correct. If I got a :LBS bike I would not have to do a thing. However, I am so much better off as a new biker than I would have been going that route.

yep - all of them are assembled with too long housing, so they route over the top. Looks bad, but really it does not affect performanace at all. That said, I (like most others) fix it or have it fixed. One of my favorite things about this experience is how I have learned more about my bike and how to fix it. The derailers were nearly spot on, but I re-did them. I re-routed the cables (and cut them to length). I did the same with the brakes.

Some will think of this as clearly trying to spin a negative (having to do work on a new bike) and that is partially correct. If I got a :LBS bike I would not have to do a thing. However, I am so much better off as a new biker than I would have been going that route.

The way it was packed, the handlebar was routed in way that twisted the cables. If you flip the handlebar once or twice they will go under, but you're right the cables and housings are a tad long.

I went back and forth between those two bikes many times in my head . . . same struggles - weight, full DA, $200. I think the SL is lighter for a few reasons. I think the rims are lighter and I think the frame and fork are lighter. The rims are one of the reason I went the other way. I just read mixed reviews on them specifically (and other similar lightweight rims) and them having some durability issues. I wanted a bit more bulletproof.

To me, this is the way to go for $200 more. There just is nothing to upgrade component wise unless you want carbon bars. Well, upgrade the seat, but that will be case on any bike. It is not like this is a lot heavier, just a hair.

I went through a similar thought process as you, as far as weight and strength of the rims and the Dura Ace upgrade goes. I hope am I right about the the WCS Protocol wheels being a good balance between light weight and strength. Did you also go back and forth on the double vs. triple crank issue? I am hoping the 12-27 rear cassette will provide a wide enough range and good hill climbing ability. That cassette is only 27 grams heavier than the 11-23 (which it seems like you would only want to use with a "compact" 50/34 crankset).

I was actually going to ask you guys if the Draco deal was gone but I managed to find the order page and just got my tracking number from BD today so I should have mine on Friday.

Like WheresWaldo, I'll be stripping the parts off and transferring them to a new frame (http://philipverse.com/eBay/Titera/Titera5.jpg). I don't think there's anything "wrong" with the Draco's aluminum frame. I just couldn't stop dreaming about titanium. :D

Bradley

Is the 2007 Draco still available? The ad says limited stock, and to email them for price.
I emailed them at sales@bikesdirect.com on 3/2 and 3/5 no reply yet.