Wow. I missed the nastiness on the last thread, but hopefully this isn't too out of place...

I think this is a problem that starts with radically different hormones and biological "wiring." I've occasionally gotten the type of attention you brought up: ladies slowing down and honking or shouting "Nice legs!" But it's infrequent, nothing near what the OP of the previous thread brought up.

Here's the critical difference: to be completely honest, that sort of attention made my day. I think most men would agree that, even if a bit distracting, they wouldn't disapprove of a bit of honking themselves. So, it's impossible for it to be on the same level, since men CANNOT receive "unwanted" attention from women.

With regard to why it happens to women, and why it's so much more frequent: You probably know that men's sex hormones are hooked up to their eyes quite strongly. I'll be brief, but it's the root of much of male sexuality, but not of female. I've seen the psych-class diagrams of the MRI's when both partners see an attractive member of the opposite sex, the difference is striking.

Now, of course, it doesn't EXCUSE the men's whistling. Of course, they are being rude jackasses. But the point is, when the sight of attractive women exercising creates this kind of impulse, even if most men can be polite, some vocal minority are going to have poor impulse control. With women seeing men, there aren't nearly as many impulses to control.
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I can SEE how it would be aggravating, and I think these guys are jerks, but I can't say I EMPATHIZE with how it feels, since there's no parallel. The closest thing, I think, is when other MEN yell harassing things at me ("Nice bike, ***!"). This happens far more often then women's "compliments."

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I can SEE how it would be aggravating, and I think these guys are jerks, but I can't say I EMPATHIZE with how it feels, since there's no parallel. The closest thing, I think, is when other MEN yell harassing things at me ("Nice bike, ***!"). This happens far more often then women's "compliments."
Good point here. Yeah I think this close to what many women have to endure.

How would you like it from a gay man who's bigger and stronger than you are and thinks you're kinda cute?

It's the guideline I gave my sons when they asked similar questions about talking to girls and I think it helps put some of the gender differences aside and focus more on what is potentially an unequal power relationship.

How would you like it from a gay man who's bigger and stronger than you are and thinks you're kinda cute?

It's the guideline I gave my sons when they asked similar questions about talking to girls and I think it helps put some of the gender differences aside and focus more on what is potentially an unequal power relationship.
um, freaked, but still sort of flattered? And still not in fear of domination.
My point is that I don't think that there's any real analog. Sexual politics run very deep. It is not between two people, oogler and ooglee, it's part of the culture. It's the same reason why two people, no matter how close, one black and one white, really can't get away with calling each other racial epithets. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it happens, but it doesn't work.

I think this was covered pretty well in original thread, but I think the key difference that needs to be reinforced is the way men and women react to this type of behaviour, and that is whether or not they feel threatened by it.

As a guy, I've had carloads of girls make the usual comments, but it surely didn't threaten me. Actually, I find it annoying. Anytime anyone makes any comment out of a car window my knee jerk reaction is to get pissed off becuase I see any unwanted interaction with motorist as a threat. Trained response from being harrassed too many times by motorists. After I realise I'm not being threatened in any way, I brush it off.

Now, put yourself in a woman's shoes. Some guy slows down rolls down his window and start to yell something out. It could just as easily be "Get the F*** off the road" as it could be "hey nice a**". In her shoes, the second response doesn't diffuse that initial tension. If it's in broad daylight on a busy road, it's probably not as threatening. But what about out in an isolated rural setting.

As I guy, you need to ask yourself this. How would you feel about some slimeball making those comments to your wife, girlfriend, or daughter? I'll tell you what, it would piss me off. I'm a very patient guy, but if I witnessed somebody treating my wife that way I would probably come unglued.

To reinforce the part about the percieved threat, let me relate a little story that happened 2 days ago. My wife rides with a friend of hears just about every morning, at 5am, so that I can be home with the kids before I ride to work.

Her friend lives a couple miles away, so they ride out to meet each other half way between. The other day, after they finished their ride, and the route they took led back to our house. My wife's friend then went to ride back home by herself. While riding through our neighborhood, a guy in a pickup passed her slowly and then turned left at the next intersection. She continued straight ahead not thinking much of it. Then a minute later she thinks she hears a vehicle approaching from behind, but still being dark she doesn't see any lights.

She turned around to notice that same pickup following close behind her with the lights turned off. This guy tailed her for about a quarter mile until she was able to get to a main highway with lots of traffic. At that point, the guy took off down the highway.

No way of knowing what his intentions were, but as a guy being followed by a pickup with the lights turned off would be a little nerve wracking. For a woman alone......you can do the math on how much worse that would be.

Thing of it is, the guy in pickup was driving a company truck with the logo plastered on the side. I know the company, I know where the guy lives. My wife's friend's husband called the company and I think the police. Doubt anything will come of it......but needless to say, it doesn't sit well with me. My wife is going to alter routes to avoid where this guy lives, or maybe have to drive out to meet her friend so neither of them are riding alone.

Now, you can argue that this situation is far different that some slimeball making catcalls, but I don't think it's acceptable under any circumstances to put a woman into a situation where she has to decide if she is being threatened.

If you feel the need to gawk at a woman, then gawk....but keep your mouth shut and go about your business.

Great post!

How would you like it from a gay man who's bigger and stronger than you are and thinks you're kinda cute?

It's the guideline I gave my sons when they asked similar questions about talking to girls and I think it helps put some of the gender differences aside and focus more on what is potentially an unequal power relationship.

Gawd I was just wasting time looking through these old threads, and thought 'hey that a great analogy' then I remembered almost with a shock that something quite bizarre like that actually happened to me years ago. By a set of total misunderstandings I ended up in a street late at night outside a gay bar (what a dummy I didn't know it was a gay bar LOL) trying to fend off the advances of a very physically determined amourous male ('No, no, I like GIRLS" wasn't getting the message through). We ended up having a struggle, and my shirt actually got the buttons ripped off it, what with me trying to stop him attempting to drag me off somewhere (worse I had borrowed the shirt off my brother) and so I decided the best course of action was to run off as fast as I could, but the guy was Fijian, and those guys can all run, so I had to sprint over two blocks absolutely flat out before he gave up. If it had come to physical violence who knows what would've happened we were about the same size. Anyway I wanted to avoid that at all costs, but man it was still damn scary!

It really completely surprised me at the time, I was always taught to be respectful and considerate of other people, so it gave me a shocking first-hand view of what it must be like for women sometimes when men don't take no for an answer. And I really didn't want to tell anyone about it either at the time, I felt quite ashamed. Man the more I think about it the more detail comes back, yuck!:(

Anyway back to the subject, IMO ogling, yelling and all that stuff is never acceptable uner any circumstances, and is just plain rude behaviour from rude people.

Great post!

Yep...sure is.

As I guy, you need to ask yourself this. How would you feel about some slimeball making those comments to your wife, girlfriend, or daughter? I'll tell you what, it would piss me off. I'm a very patient guy, but if I witnessed somebody treating my wife that way I would probably come unglued.

+1 (late, I know.)

A couple of female friends of mine in college had to deal with unwanted male attention (not cycling, but same principle applies.) One had a guy come into her work repeatedly, insistent that "she was the girl for him," despite her repeated assurances to the contrary. He crossed the line into stalking, showed up at her apt. a couple of times. Several of her male friends (myself included) had a little chat with him and he got the message. No, no violence was involved, although the thought crossed our minds. The other was actually pulled into the bushes by a would-be rapist and she only escaped actually being raped by screaming, fighting, and the intervention of a couple of passers-by.

No guy has an excuse for engaging in that kind of behavior. Not ever. The one time I was actually able to put a stop to it I was with my wife and a couple of Spanish speaking guys were saying she had a nice butt, not knowing I speak Spanish. I'm about as not-Hispanic-looking as anyone could be and also 6'5", 200 lbs (then) and as I turned to them and said, "thanks, that's my wife," I saw brown people turn white faster than I've ever seen any color change in my life. It was like one of those octopi you see on the Discovery Channel, changing color to camoflage themselves. I guess I wasn't exactly giving off the "I'm OK with you talking about my wife's butt" vibe. They decided they were going to eat somewhere else (we were in line to order at a burger place.) I wish I could have been there to help my friend in the second example, I still beat myself up for that because I was patrolling near there and didn't hear her. :mad2:

To the ladies, sorry we're such jackasses sometimes.

The worst incident I observed was an actual attack on a woman rider. Guy reached out of a car window and used some type of thing to hit the back of her helmet, yelling something rude. Broke the helmet. She was a good rider, didn't go down.

The fellow didn't realize that some of us can actually catch cars and remember license plates. Jail time.

My wife rides alone around here in rural east TN. I try not to worry. She has never had any trouble at all. Perhaps people are more polite here. Most people, including men, are extremely polite. I would expect any problems to come from the city people who have moved out here. They run stop signs, speed, talk on cell phones, and generally create a nuisance. I've had a couple of run-ins and hope she never does.

Get over it. What's fair is fair. Take it like a man.

Get over it. What's fair is fair. Take it like a man.

Get over what, exactly?

Your comment doesn't seem to follow.

wtf??

Get over it. What's fair is fair. Take it like a man.

Trolling again Venus???

Trolling again Venus???

You think I'm trolling w/ my response of "take it like a man"? Maybe you are a male chauvinist pig & can’t see it is much the same for both sexes. Most of my guy gym friends are overwhelmed by female pursuers.

Good point here. Yeah I think this close to what many women have to endure.

Could I also point something out: My GF is part of a girls running group. They are always running around town obviously (Sometimes by themselves, sometimes with 2, 3, maybe 4 girls...) They get honks and drive byes with flirty comments- and the girls act like the are annoyed, but they love it. They get back and talk about it, and they reference the "honkers" at random times in conversations. They brag to each other that the honkers are all looking at "Susy" this week. Or "Lisa always gets honks when she is running." They brag/talk about them being on a run by themselves and some guy honks, and how gross he was, but it is still "one more under the belt" etc.....

It seems ironical to me that something that is soooo annoying is also a HUGE badge of pride.

(Now, before I get flamed, I would like to state that I don't condone such male behavior, but just would like to point out what appears to be a contradiction.)

You think I'm trolling w/ my response of "take it like a man"? Maybe you are a male chauvinist pig & can’t see it is much the same for both sexes. Perhaps you aren't a hunk so are never overwhelmed by female pursuers as most of my guy friends are.

You seem so hostile. I'm still trying to follow this thread.

I posted an short anecdote about the worst incidents I've seen.

You posted a "take it like a man" response.

That didn't seem to make sense at all to me. Take what?

Now you respond to someone trolling for you in an odd manner.

Perhaps you'd care to explain yourself?

Could I also point something out: My GF is part of a girls running group. They are always running around town obviously (Sometimes by themselves, sometimes with 2, 3, maybe 4 girls...) They get honks and drive byes with flirty comments- and the girls act like the are annoyed, but they love it. They get back and talk about it, and they reference the "honkers" at random times in conversations. They brag to each other that the honkers are all looking at "Susy" this week. Or "Lisa always gets honks when she is running." They brag/talk about them being on a run by themselves and some guy honks, and how gross he was, but it is still "one more under the belt" etc.....

It seems ironical to me that something that is soooo annoying is also a HUGE badge of pride.

(Now, before I get flamed, I would like to state that I don't condone such male behavior, but just would like to point out what appears to be a contradiction.)
I guess some girls like it. I don't and some of the posters here don't either. Maybe it's a cycling thing.... To each his/her own.

You think I'm trolling w/ my response of "take it like a man"? Maybe you are a male chauvinist pig & can’t see it is much the same for both sexes. Perhaps you aren't a hunk so are never overwhelmed by female pursuers as most of my guy friends are.
What is the same for both sexes? Care to elaborate....politely?

I guess some girls like it. I don't and some of the posters here don't either. Maybe it's a cycling thing.... To each his/her own.


Yeah- I didn't think about the cycling thing. Being 3 inches from some one on the road is different then 10 feet away on a sidewalk when running.

You think I'm trolling w/ my response of "take it like a man"? Maybe you are a male chauvinist pig & can’t see it is much the same for both sexes. Perhaps you aren't a hunk so are never overwhelmed by female pursuers as most of my guy friends are.

Venus, why did you presumed that Im a guy??????

You posted a reply to someone citing an incident of an unprovoked, violent attack on a cyclist saying “what's fair is fair, take it like a man”. Its beyond appropriate to think that there is anything “fair” in that kind of act. Whether the cyclist be male or female.

More so, as you are a chick, I’d love to know exactly what your interpretation of “taking it like a man” is? And please clarify how that applied in this situation.

I consider men and women equal, I don't presume that “taking it like a man,” whatever that might be, would be inherently a superior response to “taking it like a woman”.

Trolling? Well, you certainly have a flair for dropping sweeping judgemental posts into the women's forum. You recently posted here exhorting all women to forego women's jerseys and buy men's, but topped it off by asserting that if women can fit their shoulders and arms into women's jerseys, they aren't training hard enough.

I don't know Venus, Im quite happy being a chick.

Venus, why did you presumed that Im a guy??????

Trolling? Well, you certainly have a flair for dropping sweeping judgemental posts into the women's forum. You recently posted here exhorting all women to forego women's jerseys and buy men's, but topped it off by asserting that if women can fit their shoulders and arms into women's jerseys, they aren't training hard enough.

I don't know Venus, Im quite happy being a chick.

Yep, you have it right. Girls that want to be the real deal need to train harder & get some muscle. No excuses. I haven't fit into a "girl" jersey for years. Take it or leave it.

Yep, you have it right. Girls that want to be the real deal need to train harder & get some muscle. No excuses. I haven't fit into a "girl" jersey for years. Take it or leave it.
But so much of cycling works the lower body and back and abs. It's my understanding that upper body bulk (shoulders and arms) in cycling is for the most part ballast.