Oh why.....Please tell my why.....are women so complicated...I'm not meaning this as an insult...I'm just trying to understand......I say something one way...and it's wrong...so then I try to rephrase it the other way...and it's still wrong...It's a very contrarian existence. Please note, I am NOT slamming women...just looking for insight....:(

This stikes me as a bit of a vague grievance. While we're at it, maybe someone could explain why things get so crazy sometimnes.

This stikes me as a bit of a vague grievance. While we're at it, maybe someone could explain why things get so crazy sometimnes.


just a bit of a vent...My wife is complaining about not being able to lose the weight from her recent pregnancy, and not having time to work out....I've tried to be supportive, but it seems like the third rail of a relationship...NO matter what I say...it's not right, and WHEN I try to say nothing...I get in trouble too........:idea: :( Just venting a little...men are MUCH simpler creatures when compared to women.....

Physasst, as a woman, I understand what you're getting at. We are a complicated lot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that when you wife brings up the weight issue, you try to give her advice or suggestions. I would discourage you from doing that. Rather, I recommend that you just ask her flat out what would be helpful to her from you right now. Encouragement? Reassurement that she's okay just the way she is? Time away from the baby to workout? To just listen? She may not even now, but forcing her to answer the question may help her define what's really bothering her.

Just my take......

I would try to be vaguely supportive. If she complains, tell her that if she needs any help or support from you, that all she needs to do is ask.

If you offer up that same help and support without her asking, it will be seen as overbearing, pushing her to lose the weight.

My girlfriend is currently mad at me over something to do with carry on vs. checked luggage. I wouldn't even know where to start that story,

Silas

just a bit of a vent...My wife is complaining about not being able to lose the weight from her recent pregnancy, and not having time to work out....I've tried to be supportive, but it seems like the third rail of a relationship...NO matter what I say...it's not right, and WHEN I try to say nothing...I get in trouble too........:idea: :( Just venting a little...men are MUCH simpler creatures when compared to women.....

Since you're going to be in trouble no matter what, just tell her she's fat and needs to get off her ass and do something about it. She got lazy lounging around for nine months and if she isn't dropping the pounds she isn't working hard enough.


Shock and awe, baby! Shock and awe.

:D



-- I don't know your wife or her personality but sometimes taking an extreme humorous approach has value. One of the women I know just had a kid. I busted her chops about how big her ass was getting when she was pregnant and how big it is since she had the kid. WE, however, have the type of relationship where we can bust on each other like that and laugh. She dishes it out just as hard too.

HTH, YMMV, UAYOR, caveat emptor and all that.

phys, you'll never have the Right Answer. don't even try.

Warning: Generalisations Ahead!

this is often because <i>as a rule</I> men want to GIVE SOLUTIONS, but women want to DISCUSS PROBLEMS. We prefer to discuss how we FEEL about something. Guys want to REACH CONSENSUS and close the issue.

in plain english: <I>she's not looking for an answer dude, she's just venting.</I> women vent. a lot. even I do this. just... be supportive without trying to SOLVE stuff. stop trying to answer what you perceive as a question. it's rhetorical anyway.

this is how women tend to express frustration with a situation, or work through problems to a solution. By externalising it for discussion. A concrete answer, while AN answer, is never viewed as THE answer... it's still open for debate. so in essence you're fighting a losing battle that you really don't even want to engage in in the first place.

note that this is generally the case, and can vary. but as a rule it's a pretty basic guideline for getting along harmoniously with the perceived 'gender wars' issue.

I sometimes call this phenomenon "Male Answer Syndrome". Some guys tend to do this even at the exclusion of knowing the whole story, or even what the 'right' answer is (if there even is one). A good example of this was the 'well YOU SHOULD....' kneejerk response I got from my x, before I'd even outlined an issue and how I *felt* about the situation. This was our major communication breakdown - I perceived him as not respecting my FEELINGS and he viewed me as stubbornly resistant to (what he considered logical) SOLUTIONS.

like I said, you're never gonna win this one buddy.

you came to the chick forum for advice, and you have received excellent chick advice.
listen to it.
how long you been married, dude?
learn this, and learn it well
when she starts talking about her body and her weight -- what did LFR say, there be dragons in those hills? -- remember that there is no right answer, because it isn't really a question. she knows exactly how her pants are fitting, and you cannot add to this understanding. you must save yourself in this situation by walking away and leaving it alone.
of course women are more complicated than men. they are in every way. it is because it is. women's biggest mistake is thinking that men are equally complicated.
silly boy.

to add this little bit to LFR's pearls (before us swine) --
you aren't going to win points even by listening to her. I'm sorry, but you're not. these are incendiary situations that men, sadly, cannot handle. we can't. end of story.
caveat -- sometimes pretending to listen is the only way to stall the inevitable and avoid utter wrath and contempt. then you must change the subject. kick the cat out the window, something to divert the conversation. it's the only way.

love her, of course. worship her. but none of that will ever allow you to say, baby you're looking a little dumpy in the trunky. and if you don't admit what she already knows, then she's mad all over again because (a) you're patronizing her and/or (b) you're dumber than even she thought. so, now she's mad at her ass and you.

just a bit of a vent...My wife is complaining about not being able to lose the weight from her recent pregnancy, and not having time to work out....

Perhaps this is her way of asking you to help out with the kid or housework so she can get time to work out, or just some time to herself.

phys, fwiw I've been told that estrogen related weight gain is extremely hard to shed. Was your wife physically active before the pregnancy?

In my experience, women don't so much want you to say a certain thing as ASK. Ask questions. "How do you feel" "How can I help" "What do you think" etc. My guess is that if you are offering suggestions, they are all things she's thought of and so since she's annoyed with the whole situation, you become a bit the target of it.

I think the key to building a rapport with a woman is to ask more questions and make fewer statements. I haven't read all the other responses but that's my thought at the moment!

In my experience, women don't so much want you to say a certain thing as ASK. Ask questions. "How do you feel" "How can I help" "What do you think" etc. My guess is that if you are offering suggestions, they are all things she's thought of and so since she's annoyed with the whole situation, you become a bit the target of it.

I think the key to building a rapport with a woman is to ask more questions and make fewer statements. I haven't read all the other responses but that's my thought at the moment!
so, like, ask her why her butt's so big? or why she's so neurotic? or why she's holding that knife?

phys, fwiw I've been told that estrogen related weight gain is extremely hard to shed. Was your wife physically active before the pregnancy?


really..definitely not to the extent that I am......She walks on her treadmill, and she has an elliptical that she calls "the death machine". She does it, but she thinks of it as a chore, not as something fun.....although now she keeps saying she has to get back on it, because she is having very odd dreams now that she has been away from it for a week. She had to stop because she had surgery almost two weeks ago....so maybe she's getting the bug....JTolleson, I've tried to to ask her about things...but I have this perpetual habit of being able to put my foot in my mouth...but when I try to be quiet and supportive, she accuses me of not listening to her and ignoring her problems.....in short, I can't win here.....Maybe if I just work 24 hours a day for the next several weeks....hmmmmm.....:idea:

so, like, ask her why her butt's so big? or why she's so neurotic? or why she's holding that knife?

Sure!


IF YOU WANT TO DIE SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY!:D

Sure!


IF YOU WANT TO DIE SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY!:D




Snap, what are you doing with that turkey???

Sure!


IF YOU WANT TO DIE SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY!:D
Do you remember when Wesley and Prince Humperdink finally face off in the chamber, and Prince Humperdink says, yes, yes, yes, we will fight to the death and Wesley says, "NO! We will fight to the pain!" and proceeds to explain what body parts of Prince Humperdink will be lopped off and the women that will recoil in horror and the children in fear, asking, "what is that thing?" while Princess Buttercup is lovely as she can be?
My wife would kill me to the Pain.

Oh why.....Please tell my why.....are women so complicated...I'm not meaning this as an insult...I'm just trying to understand......I say something one way...and it's wrong...so then I try to rephrase it the other way...and it's still wrong...It's a very contrarian existence. Please note, I am NOT slamming women...just looking for insight....:(

early in our relationship.

We had a fight over it and later when we both had calmed down, I asked her......when you say things like that, what do you want from me?

after thinking about it for a few minutes, she answered (and I'm paraphrasing):

1.) I want you to really listen to me
2.) I don't want you to tell me how to "fix" it. Your suggestions either make me feel like you think I'm an idiot, or I feel like an idiot because I didn't think of it. If I want a solution, I'll ask you for a solution.
3.) I want you to understand what I'm feeling, validate my feelings and remind me that you are safe place to come to when I'm not perfect.......that's it's OK to be me, however I feel.
4.) I want you to emphatize with me.
5.) I wnat to be important enough to you that when my feeling are important to me, they are important to you.

We haven't had this problem since.

She & I see the world differently...to me (most of the time) the world is a place to be conquered......problems to be solved, I, as a man, get part of my sense of self from fixing things. To her, the world is an endless possibility for interactions and sharing.........feeling safe and accepted, and cared for is the solution.

Don't know if this applies to all women, but it does to my wife.

Why don't you ask her what she needs from you when she is feeling this way?

Len

I told this chick I like a lot she looks nice and she says "Yeah I know, my face is fat right?" WHAT??!!!????!???!!!!! :idea: :idea:

I said no, you look nice.. and she says ''Yeah, fat right?"

After a while, she finally said, ''Ok thanks" and smiled...

Now THAT'S the epitomy of not understanding women at times...

Do you remember when Wesley and Prince Humperdink finally face off in the chamber, and Prince Humperdink says, yes, yes, yes, we will fight to the death and Wesley says, "NO! We will fight to the pain!" and proceeds to explain what body parts of Prince Humperdink will be lopped off and the women that will recoil in horror and the children in fear, asking, "what is that thing?" while Princess Buttercup is lovely as she can be?
My wife would kill me to the Pain.
I love that Wesley and Buttercup movie. :)

Snap, what are you doing with that turkey???

Taking it to the cafeteria of course!

I told this chick I like a lot she looks nice and she says "Yeah I know, my face is fat right?" WHAT??!!!????!???!!!!! :idea: :idea:

I said no, you look nice.. and she says ''Yeah, fat right?"

After a while, she finally said, ''Ok thanks" and smiled...

Now THAT'S the epitomy of not understanding women at times...


ohhhhh...

you haven't even SCRATCHED the surface yet young grasshopper.........

Still!!!! But it's things like this that make me like her :) Coz despite all the 'misunderstanding', she smiles and knows what I mean.

:) :)

yabbut have you asked her out yet? :rolleyes:

next week sogno.. next week.. :) But I'll be riding/going to her place in the next few days to see her and talk.. Just casual talk.. Or not.. Depends on the situation.

Oh why.....Please tell my why.....are women so complicated...I'm not meaning this as an insult...I'm just trying to understand......I say something one way...and it's wrong...so then I try to rephrase it the other way...and it's still wrong...It's a very contrarian existence. Please note, I am NOT slamming women...just looking for insight....:(

We are that complicated because it's fun to watch men frantically try to dig themselves out of holes.

next week sogno.. next week.. :) But I'll be riding/going to her place in the next few days to see her and talk.. Just casual talk.. Or not.. Depends on the situation.
dude.
I have been biting my tongue, holding back from saying this.
you're messing around with the perfect timing and meanwhile some dork is going to get to her first.
I was going to describe disturbing images of particular intimate acts that you . . . right now . . . right this minute . . . like, right NOW . . . are missing with her, but I'll pass.

dude.
I have been biting my tongue, holding back from saying this.
you're messing around with the perfect timing and meanwhile some dork is going to get to her first.
I was going to describe disturbing images of particular intimate acts that you . . . right now . . . right this minute . . . like, right NOW . . . are missing with her, but I'll pass.


I just don't want her to be killing me for taking her study time away..

So should I ask her out when I see her or should I tell her/hint/whatever?

You know what bill, I might just do whatever works best the next time I see her in the next few days...
Thanks.. Why? For making me realize/spurring me with this post to do something fast...

We are that complicated because it's fun to watch men frantically try to dig themselves out of holes.


Now, there's a honest answer for you :)

a little wisdom for you bro, quoted from IRC:

<i>[zhixel]> I'd really like to meet a sane woman who doesn't have to constantly rely on me for emotional support
[far_call]> and I'd really like to be able to drive my car to jupiter...</i>

LFR, JToll, and Len have summarized the male-female communication rules very well. I ahve nothing to add to that, but I do have a thought about her weight-loss program.

Others will have other opinions, but from alot of reading that I've done, "fat burning" does not vary dramatically with increased levels of activity. You can burn alot of carbohydrate calories with high-exertion exercise, but to shed fat one needs to exercise over time. That's why cycling is generally good at burning fat, because we can ride for a couple hours at a time.

Your wife's death machine elliptical isn't going to help her burn off the fat she wants to lose, unless she slows down and uses it for lots of time (1-2 hours a day). As context, I heard a personal trainer give the following rule of thumb:

30 minutes of exercise a day will meet cardio fitness minimums

60 minutes of exercise a day will generally maintain weight

90 minutes of exercise a day is needed to lose weight

An elliptical for 90 minutes would be hard, but the treadmill, or even better, long walks outside, will be easier to achive.

LFR, JToll, and Len have summarized the male-female communication rules very well. I ahve nothing to add to that, but I do have a thought about her weight-loss program.

Others will have other opinions, but from alot of reading that I've done, "fat burning" does not vary dramatically with increased levels of activity. You can burn alot of carbohydrate calories with high-exertion exercise, but to shed fat one needs to exercise over time. That's why cycling is generally good at burning fat, because we can ride for a couple hours at a time.

Your wife's death machine elliptical isn't going to help her burn off the fat she wants to lose, unless she slows down and uses it for lots of time (1-2 hours a day). As context, I heard a personal trainer give the following rule of thumb:

30 minutes of exercise a day will meet cardio fitness minimums

60 minutes of exercise a day will generally maintain weight

90 minutes of exercise a day is needed to lose weight

An elliptical for 90 minutes would be hard, but the treadmill, or even better, long walks outside, will be easier to achive.


can virtually GUARANTEE she will not work out 90 minutes a day.....Hell, I DON'T have 90minutes a day. Not with a 7 month old....nope not gonna happen....30-45 minutes is about all she can do...

Taking it to the cafeteria of course!

Mmmmmm..... I just picked up a fresh propane tank..... my bird (not code) is destined for the fryer tomorrow. I may have to do a ride report on the process.

We are that complicated because it's fun to watch men frantically try to dig themselves out of holes.

Now, see, us married men make it a sport to see how deep a hole we can dig.

Now, see, us married men make it a sport to see how deep a hole we can dig.


It's a SPORT now???? Will it make the olympics? :D

uzzie:
a little wisdom for you bro, quoted from IRC:

[zhixel]> I'd really like to meet a sane woman who doesn't have to constantly rely on me for emotional support
[far_call]> and I'd really like to be able to drive my car to jupiter...

me not getting this :idea:

because they can

:D jtol:D (but seriously dumm ? dood):D

I'd like to start off by saying that this thread has been educational and enlightening. I will continue to read this thread to further my education.

My favorite quote from an ex-coworker: "The biggest idiot you will ever meet in your life is a man telling you he understands women." I could not agree more.

My wife once asked that proverbial "damned if you do, damned if you don't" question: "Honey, do I look fat?" My answer? Without hesitation and without even looking up at her I responded, "YES, YOU DO!" She has never asked me that question ever again and we've been married for 10 years since that fateful day (married for over 14 years, now). No, she is not slowly poisoning me (or at least I hope not!).

I know that men want to fix things. I know that all I want to is to make things work right. The problem is that women are so complicated that we cannot begin to comprehend how they work and, therefore, find that I cannot begin to grasp how to fix them. That's the frustration I have.

The Fat question will be asked sooner or later with someone and there can never be a way to escape from it.

I'd like to start off by saying that this thread has been educational and enlightening. I will continue to read this thread to further my education.

My favorite quote from an ex-coworker: "The biggest idiot you will ever meet in your life is a man telling you he understands women." I could not agree more.

My wife once asked that proverbial "damned if you do, damned if you don't" question: "Honey, do I look fat?" My answer? Without hesitation and without even looking up at her I responded, "YES, YOU DO!" She has never asked me that question ever again and we've been married for 10 years since that fateful day (married for over 14 years, now). No, she is not slowly poisoning me (or at least I hope not!).

I know that men want to fix things. I know that all I want to is to make things work right. The problem is that women are so complicated that we cannot begin to comprehend how they work and, therefore, find that I cannot begin to grasp how to fix them. That's the frustration I have.


much summed it up completely.....Yep..you nailed it.....right on the head....:thumbsup:

early in our relationship.

We had a fight over it and later when we both had calmed down, I asked her......when you say things like that, what do you want from me?

after thinking about it for a few minutes, she answered (and I'm paraphrasing):

1.) I want you to really listen to me
2.) I don't want you to tell me how to "fix" it. Your suggestions either make me feel like you think I'm an idiot, or I feel like an idiot because I didn't think of it. If I want a solution, I'll ask you for a solution.
3.) I want you to understand what I'm feeling, validate my feelings and remind me that you are safe place to come to when I'm not perfect.......that's it's OK to be me, however I feel.
4.) I want you to emphatize with me.
5.) I wnat to be important enough to you that when my feeling are important to me, they are important to you.

We haven't had this problem since.

She & I see the world differently...to me (most of the time) the world is a place to be conquered......problems to be solved, I, as a man, get part of my sense of self from fixing things. To her, the world is an endless possibility for interactions and sharing.........feeling safe and accepted, and cared for is the solution.

Don't know if this applies to all women, but it does to my wife.

Why don't you ask her what she needs from you when she is feeling this way?

Len


Wisdom...the only word I can think of is wisdom.