i was talking to a shop mech. today who claimed that rival was about 1000g heavier than force. I was under the impression its more like 100-300g. heavier?

i was considering getting rival if it was cheaper than ultegra and lighter seeing as i need a new drivetrain for the roadie, but 1000g heavier would put it super heavy, and i dont want that (race frame) if i could spend less on 105 and save wieght or spend a bit more for ultegra.

anyone have any info or direct experience?

thanks

your mechanic obviously doesn't have a clue...

The SRAM site has Rival and Force F/D, cassette (11-23), chain, and controls the exact same weight. The brakes and R/D have a 17g difference, in total (for both brakes or just one I don't know). The Force crank is listed at 665g, I am not sure if that is with the BB or not. The Rival crank is listed at 840g with the BB. So, worst case, it looks like a total difference of 192g. Ask your wrench what I'm missing. I have the Rival group and couldn't be more pleased.

not my mechanic, just in a shop (i dont like) and was talking about it.

also read in bicycling 1000g heavier.

i agree with you guys, i was figuring 1-300 g looking at claimed weights. even with a bb added in, thats what, 100 g tops?

good to hear it, i want it even more now

Well, think about it. 1000 gms is 1 kg which is equal to 2.2 lbs.

Do you really think it is likely to be anywhere near 2 lbs heavier?

I read that article in Bicycling also, but in the next month's issue there was a correction that Rival was actually 100 g heavier, not 1000.

may i ask what bike shop?

I just got the force shifters and derailleurs. From the research i did, Rival is very close in weight(like 30 grams more for shifters) and peforms exactly the same. Only reason to get force in my opinion is the carbon look.
If i had to do over again, would get Rival vs. Force. Or probably neither, but that is a different subject.

why neither?

why neither?
I guess my expectations were higher than they should have been. I went from XTR 960 to SRAM X.0 on my mountain bike a year ago and was truely impressed by how well the X.0 shifted. Crisp, sure, just as good as it gets.

I replaced my DA 7800 with the Force. But have only a little over 100 miles on it, so not a very good test yet. Will write up a better review with more miles.

It shifts good, but requires more force to shift to larger cogs than Shimano. And it does not miss shifts, but does not have the crisp feeling the X.0 has on my mtb. So in my opinion kind of a wash with the Shimano. Maybe a touch better shifting performance. Does require a very long throw to shift up two cogs on the back and long throw in the front.
I am curious how well it well shift after 10,000 miles on it.

Ergonomics is better & worse than Shimano in my opinion. The good is that it is a shorter lever than the DA and does not stick up in the air as high as Shimano. The worse is that where you grip it when on the top, it is fatter. Not a lot, but noticeable. Also, having both cables along the handle bar is probably better.

Setup-the handlebar clamp bolt has to be accessed by rolling back the rubber hood, vs along the side like Shimano. I prefer the way Shimano does it, but this subjective.

So, as you can see, maybe a little better than Shimano in my opinion, but not near the improvement the X.0 had over the 960 XTR. But many mountain bikers disagree with me that the X.0 is better than XTR 960. I qualify the XTR to the 960 version in that i thought the older 952 was better and the new 975 looks very promising.

Also, do not understand using the complete force/rival group. It seems like their cranks and brakes are measurably heavier than Shimano DA.

First off in know way is Sram close to DA. DA is the standard now. Second why would anyone read Bicycling mag?

Evan you added a lot of information to the msg thread.:)

First off in know way is Sram close to DA. DA is the standard now. Second why would anyone read Bicycling mag?

Who's standard ?? Just say NO to ShimaNO :D

DA and shimano is standard, SRAM is the new kid and lighter than DA, and Campy is king. just do a search for company recalls that tells a lot about campy vs. shimano, only time will tell for SRAM.

I have a Rival kit on my cross bike. Used it for 6 races this year. It has worked flawless in the mud and snow of CO. The weight difference between parts, sans brakes, was like 135g or something like that.

Force crankset is light at 665 but that does not include the BB, which is the same as Rival. The cassette is the same for both.. There are 3 different chains with different finishes, but weight on them is plus/minus 7 grams from top to bottom.

Setting it up was easy. Shifters attach to the bar the same way that Campy does. Sram shifters are rebuildable like Campy also. I don't run the FD on my cross bike but have heard that it does take some time to get used to the cable through.

The only downside I have with the Rival kit is the crank finish. It seemed to scratch somewhat easily. Never had that issue with my DA crankset.

I would not hesitate to put Force on my Serotta Nove and take off the Record that is on there at this point.

Good luck

What exactly is DA?

You are the one guy Sram is marketing it'd groups toooooooooo.......

Dura Ace (DA) is Shimano's high end group.

the difference is about 100gr as you all have already pointed out.
The biggest difference lies in the cranks and BB's

Both are darn ugly anyway so get an FSA or Campagnolo CArbon Chorus and have light weight low cost, innovative components :)

I agree. To me SRAM has done a good job with their shifters, derailleurs in making them light, good looking, and functional. But from my view point, the rest of the group needs some improvement. For instance the weight savings you gain on the shifters, you give away other places.

lance/basso/big jan use shimano and where are the srams and campy riders?? oh yeah 30 minutes down..somewhere buttom of the mountain. so you want to be with the " big-three " or join a bunch of other riders wishing they've shimano?? enough said. next question!!

If shitmano is going to pay me like they pay them, yes I will ride there stuff, here in AMERICA, I can choose whatever I want and SRAM it is. They would be 10 hours ahead of me, who cares. I hope to see your name in all the races this season. enough said!! next question....EPO is pushing big jans legs.....

so if " they " were 10 hours ahead of you and you don't care?? apparently winning is not on your new year's resolution. sad!! hahah

lance/basso/big jan use shimano and where are the srams and campy riders?? oh yeah 30 minutes down..somewhere buttom of the mountain. so you want to be with the " big-three " or join a bunch of other riders wishing they've shimano?? enough said. next question!!

Who were you in retaliation against? or are you bringing up a "shimano vs. campy" again?

any who isn't shimano More Heavier, More Expensive, Bigger/ Clunkier in the shifters, Harder to Fix (not rebuildable), probably more but im too tired and dont want to start another "shimano vs campy...vs sram" thread.

....go disco.

your right, I'm not a racer anymore, I raced mtnbikes for 15 years.Thats long enough for me. I'm looking forward to seeing your name at the tour of anything. z ken is a well known name I know it well. I see it in all the mags. You have a contract with Pacific and your racing that light weight huffy I've been hearing about. Hey z ken, enjoy life while you can, because you may be hit by a car while walking that huffy up a hill.

Just built a bike with Rival. All other bikes are Campy. Easy to build but didn't like the finish on the crankset. Really got to use good cable cutters when stringing the shifters. Lot tighter running cables than a Campy system. Don't see any problem in setting the brakes. Would be nice if the cassette was a little lighter but Sram said they were working on that for next year.

dank: you're cursing me hitting by a car?? how could you?? you're a biker too. i'm very dispointed at you. by the way i'm NOT that z ken you've mentioned about. i'm just an average joe who just happen to own a fancy bike. i'm not a pro. just bike to work/back commuter.

stevexjet: apparently you're not 100% satisfy of sram. before i bought dura ace, campy was my first choice ( carbon factor ) but that time money was an issue. in my other thread here in RBR ( shimano thread ) i'm considering about switching to campy right now.

z ken, don't be disapointed in me, you started this whole thing. Just ride your bike and don't worry about my choice of SRAM over shitmano. I'm not a fan of shitmano. SRAM is on all my bikes and I'm happy with it. Quit pretending your some god and everyone who uses anything but shitmano is crap. Hop up on that fancy bike of yours and have fun, thats what its all about. Even if its a fancy huffy. I wasn't cursing you either. Go back and read it again. I'm done with you.

Stevexjet, don't bother with this clown, all he does is bash..Ride whatever you can afford and have fun.

....zoom zoom

I removed Ultegra shifters, derailleurs and brakes. Added Rival, lost nearly 1/2 lb and gained performance and a cleaner handlebar (hidden shifter cables). (Hi Chris M.)

Chris M, are you a Mazda fan?

dank: yes i'm a mazda fan ( rx7, the one Vin Dissel drove in the movie " the fast and the furious " though toyata supbra isn't too shabby ) anyway i've nothing against sram or anything ( wish i could say the same thing about LOOK or anything that is made in France, aka land of losers. no offense ) as long as people keep riding bikes and not passing me, i'm cool. hahah ride strong and be safe, my motto.

what happens to them if they pass you? What about the females from France some of them are hot.

Force is EXPENSIVE... Almost 6 bills for the shifters, when Campy Record is almost half of that? And DA is even less than the Campy. I'll take the top 2 over SRAM just because of the cost associated with it. I've ridden both Campy and Shimano over the years, both have performed very well. My latest DA kit is 7 years old, and is still working flawlessly even after being crashed many times.

dank: french women?? i heard they don't shower. haha whew!! i guess they might surprise and pass me but i'll immediately step on it and never want to stay behind them. so far only couple people can pass me due to my bike is better. who said you can't speed.

I didn't mean the french girls passing you. That would be like following a garbage truck. I ment if anyone passed you. What kind of bike do you have?

haha that's good one. my bike?? 06 trek madone 5.2 SL ( midnight blue ) with full dura ace 10 instead of stock ultegra triple 10. right now i'm holding $ 3 k in my pocket ( heheh ) and really really considering buying Boras but hate to spend $ 3 k on some fancy wheels. second option would be 404 but for $ 1.9k?? ouch!! i guess the search and patient continues...