so i was doing my commute. it was either 36 or 38 degrees depending on the tv or internet. the road near my house has a slight crown (back in my youth on dirt roads i think they called that the King crown) but anyway this is asphault in Kitsap County, WA, west side of the Puget Sound. Apparently, the same ice that is on car windshields is on the roads out here in the morning (I just moved here). So on a very slight uphill, as I applied a bit more power, my rear wheel went right and I went down--hard. there is a big lump on my hip. I am using cheap michelin orium tires as winter tires. Will something else grip better--it was not so icy that my road shoes (specialized with speedplay) slipped around--because i walked a bit afterwards, but these tires suck when wet and on the slick.
thanks
jim

OUCH... my sympathies...

hmm... cross tires maybe if they can fit?

glad you're ok man... be CAREFUL!!!!

71961

the commuter forum here, or at Cascade Bike Club? I don't know if they address tire recommendations, but it seems a good place to start. I find that bike tires in general are lousy in bad conditions because the contact patch is so small. On ice/water I think you are likely to suffer on everything except your MTB rig, and even then the warning is pretty fast.

I use a wider tire set in fall/winter here in the E. Puget Sound Miserable Weather Zone. Michelin made a winter training tire that was very soft/sticky, but was also light and thin, a true performance winter tire, so not much help maybe. Continental makes/made some weirdly soft touring tires that have worked for me in sloppy going. "Top Touring" maybe, I don't recall. They may be out of production.

Ice crystals (or "frost") can form when measured air temperatures do not drop below 32F. Objects lose a lot of heat through radiation on clear nights. Clouds or fog can act as a "blanket" reducing the likelihood of a frost. Here's a website if you're interested (not too technical): http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-705.html

As for tire recommendations - I've never been satisfied with any rubber compound on ice (Except for car snow tires with sipes - but that's another topic/application). Have you considered studs?

are they just on the sides so you get grip when you corner, but not on the straights?
there was just enough ice for these tires to slip--i had no trouble walking. it is a merlin road bike, so not much room for bigger tires.
I can bring out my old DC single speed with 38mm commuters, but if i can find tires that work i'd rather stay with my road bike.

have not tried the local club--will do so thanks

thanks
jim

are they just on the sides so you get grip when you corner, but not on the straights?
there was just enough ice for these tires to slip--i had no trouble walking. it is a merlin road bike, so not much room for bigger tires.
I can bring out my old DC single speed with 38mm commuters, but if i can find tires that work i'd rather stay with my road bike.

have not tried the local club--will do so thanks

thanks
jim

The last time that I was stationed there we lived up Anderson Hill so I had to climb up through a neighborhood off Frontier Road to get home. If there was ice, no tire would work. Studded tires aren't really practical in that area either. I tried to climb in the wheel tracks of cars or over on the shoulder near the edge. You are less likely to slip in either of those areas. The worst area is two feet to either side of the white line. That area is usually clean and will have the ice. Frozen gravel on the shoulder will offer grip but will tear up the sidewalls of your tires. I don't know how much room your merlin has, but I am currently running some 30mm Michelin jet cyclocross tires for the "winter" here in Hawaii. I am pleasantly suprised at their durability and flat resistance. This time next year you will see me on my Gunnar doing the commute thing around Kitsap. We will househunt this spring and are looking at the Brownsville/Keyport area. No big climbs to get home like last tour.

You must be new to cold-climate riding. Whenever ice is present, traction loss can happen. Studded tires are heavy, the tires they are in don't ride worth a sh!t, and if you are on a road bike, chances are you couldn't find a set that would fit your frame, anyways.

It's better to learn how to ride in slippery conditions, or else buy a dedicated winter commuter, fit it out with Nokian studs, and then, still, learn how to ride in slippery conditions.

http://www.digave.com/videos_ice.html

Awsome video! Couple of questions:
Where were they filmed?
Were they using studded tires?

I'd go a bit wider, drop your tire pressure a bit, set up turns early, and watch the sudden torque and/or grabbing the breaks hard. A vittoria pave is a pretty good tire, IMO. Michelin pro race has a true 25, and it's a good tire, but I don't know that it's especially good on wet. Maybe look at the wider contis.

I'm not sure about the point of studs in your situation. If you're riding on hardpack snow and real ice, you'll get some bite out of them, but if the road has just a haze of ice on it, I'd be worried about skating on the things.

I did year round commuting. i rode in the teens, during and after snow, etc. however, in the dc area there was tons of traffic, sand, and salt. so ice was rare even though it was far colder--in fact i fell only once in a very shady section of rock creek park. when the shoulder was a mess i used my ss cx bike with 38mm tires, otherwise i was on a road bike.

i fell going straight on a slightly crowned road, very slightly uphill. maybe i was lucky for 3 yrs. but this is my first time in the puget sound area. there was no salt or sand until i got to the submarine base where i work--they did sand.

i think the oriums suck, so was asking what might have better grip. i rode gp3000 in DC, so will just go back to that and see.

studs sound like spikes on running shoes--a pain unless most of the route is ice, which this is not.

thanks anyway to those with useful comments.

I there was no salt or sand until i got to the submarine base where i work--they did sand.


The steep drop at the end of Frontier Road heading to Trigger Gate used to scare the crap out of me on cold mornings. You just never knew what the conditions would be. I lived near the top of Newberry so some mornings I would leave in snow and have rain by the time I got to lower base. I can hardly wait to move back. This time I will be in the shipyard commuting in from Ilahee or Keyport so I should miss the 500ft elevation snow.

Awsome video! Couple of questions:
Where were they filmed?
Were they using studded tires?

Looking at the parent page, http://www.digave.com/videos/ it says In a rare chain of weather patterns the Charles River froze over to form a perfect surface for raging around on bikes - watch us speed down this frozen river in the middle of the city sounds like Boston to me.

You can see and hear the studs chew up the ice, so yeah, studded for certain.

Everal other cool bike vids on that page too.

If you don't have studded tires, don't ride a bike that you want to throw away. Dave Stohler's post about using studd and learning to ride is right on advice. "Nokian HAKKAPELIITTA W106 700x35mm--Look up Nokian Rollspeed. They have a nice supple rubber made in Finlind. If there is frost on the car windows there will be freezing on the road and you may not be able to see it. In Wisconsin we call it "black ice". Asphalt that looks either wet or worse normal. Cars coming at you loose control and don't care what you are doing. Lose control on that and it will scare the s*** out of you.
For information on riding in icy conditions see Icebike and Bike winter Chicago. There is a lot on information out there.

i already go slow, stay off the front brake, brake on the straight, unclip a foot if i think the rear may go--all mtb stuff from riding in mud and snow in maryland. so i think I do most of the things that make sense in slippery conditions--but will check out ice bike. I only wondered if there was a better tire for conditions where it is not so slick that road shoes slide, but that michelin oriums do.
that may be too unique a scenario, but I've been in lots of situations where I had poor traction in my road shoes and thus not great traction with the tires, but nothing like what happended to me--where i could stand, walk etc just fine, but the bike was just sliding--i tried a few times on that stretch of the road without clipping in and it just kept going out. since then i went out on a hill in pure rain to check the traction again--even seated on the steep hill near my neighborhood the tire would loose traction on wet leaves and spin.

so i will get some wider 25 or 28 vittoria rubino or conti 4 season and lower the pressure and hope i avoid pinch flats. and i guess i'll hope for heavy rain until it is warm again--better that than ice.

jim

so i will get some wider 25 or 28 vittoria rubino or conti 4 season and lower the pressure and hope i avoid pinch flats. and i guess i'll hope for heavy rain until it is warm again--better that than ice.

jim

How much snow did you get on the Kitsap Peninsula yesterday? I'm just across the border from Blaine, WA (in White Rock, British Columbia) and we received about a foot and a half of snow yesterday! There won't be much worry about how the roads are for a while now, basically until it warms up and rains. We live on a hill and cannot even get a car out on the road. This has been an extreme November around here :cryin:

road my race bike home in the snow yesterday after a computrainer session... GP 4000 on em... stunk for traction as i know Michlin race lites do. But it isn't just about tire selection... the type of bike is very important. Race bikes have your weight more forward and this reduces the weight on your rear so you sacrifice a lot of stability. My CX bike was sweet this AM with a few inches of coverage and some really nasty spots of ice. Running Mud 2 on em. dropped the pressure to about 40 and it was great. I could even acclerate to a decent clip out of saddle. Not even close on my race bike. (i do have my bars about 6" under the saddle)

Plus noticed it didn't take long before snow packed my roadie around the chain stays between them and the BB, and behind both brake calipers. CX bikes are made for this weather, if i didn't have one, i'd ride my MTB.

Again upright position is key, supple sidewalls and low pressure :thumbsup:

we got between 3-6 inches for most of kitsap--farther north got more i think.
i am breaking out the spicer SS CX. until the rain comes back--never thought i'd look forward to that.

thanks for the good advice and to dfleck appreciate the info on the tires that did not work--since i have both in my garage-saves me a trial!
jim

i already go slow, stay off the front brake, brake on the straight,..............

Braking only on the straights is a good idea, but using your rear brake in slippery conditions is asking for a spill. You should use your front brake only about 90% of the time.