Just watched the funeral. Very nice, actually inspirational. Sort of makes you believe that being a good person can make you immortal, in a way. It's also funny how we continue to hear more and more stories about his sense of humor and nice things he did for people. Definitely more uplifting than sad. Amazing man, to be that well liked and respected.

Just watched the funeral. Very nice, actually inspirational. Sort of makes you believe that being a good person can make you immortal, in a way. It's also funny how we continue to hear more and more stories about his sense of humor and nice things he did for people. Definitely more uplifting than sad. Amazing man, to be that well liked and respected.
I think it's called revisionist history.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040628&s=editors

I think it's called revisionist history.

Even I am not that cynical. I'd like to think it's called time heals all wounds. Most of them, anyway.

I try not to speak ill of the recently deceased. I can save that for next month.

Many people think that he thought that he was doing the right thing, all the time.

I try not to speak ill of the recently deceased. I can save that for next month.

Many people think that he thought that he was doing the right thing, all the time.

Class at times like this is a good thing.

I would hope that were this Carter's or Clinton's funeral, they would have as fine a funeral with equally nice things said about them.

My point was largely directed at the funeral service itself. Very classy.

Class at times like this is a good thing.

I would hope that were this Carter's or Clinton's funeral, they would have as fine a funeral with equally nice things said about them.

My point was largely directed at the funeral service itself. Very classy.
Didn't mean to rain on your parade. I need to learn to keep my mouth shut if I have nothing good to say. I apologize.

Didn't mean to rain on your parade. I need to learn to keep my mouth shut if I have nothing good to say. I apologize.

When I read Tom Daschle talking about the funeral (when asked if he were upset about he or Clinton not being asked to speak), when he said he respects the family's wishes, that was class.

That's ok. I'd like to be more like Reagan, in some ways, particularly his resistance to taking anything personally or lashing out at people personally.

Rituals like that always seem overblown to me (but I don't like weddings, either, so never mind). What struck me, though, was the enormous expense, certainly running into the billions of dollars in direct costs, lost productivity etc., in a ceremony for a guy who claimed to hate waste and government spending. Were those three flights across the country at taxpayers' expense REALLY necessary?

<ul>Monday's viewing of the casket at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley was listed as a "private" family service. Yet it was covered live by multiple cameras, one of which was affixed to the ceiling to capture the dramatic moment when Nancy Reagan laid her cheek on the flag-draped coffin. That "private" image was aired continuously on cable news outlets and appeared the next morning on the front page of dozens of major-market newspapers around the country. - Reported by Eric Boehlert in Salon.</ul>(That does not refer directly to today's proceedings)

I think that Reagan deserved a nice funeral stacked with people who loved and admired him. That said, the overbearing attempts to linoize the man are only racking up opportunities for his opponents to set the record straight by examining truths that are flattering to neither Reagan nor his hagiographers. Classy would have been nice.

It is also very ironic that the self appointed representatives of Reagan's legacy in the GOP do such a disservice to his memory. In his name they continue the dogmatic pursuit of disasterous policies that Reagan himself abandoned (to his own credit). They continue to block medical reasearch avenues that could have spared him the tragedy of Alzheimers. They attempt to bury one of Reagan's political heros, FDR, under their vision of Reagan as the anti-FDR. It goes on and on. Class would be great.

Rituals like that always seem overblown to me (but I don't like weddings, either, so never mind). What struck me, though, was the enormous expense, certainly running into the billions of dollars in direct costs, lost productivity etc., in a ceremony for a guy who claimed to hate waste and government spending. Were those three flights across the country at taxpayers' expense REALLY necessary?


Rituals are important for countries as well as families (weddings for example). Whether one agreed with Ronald Reagan or did not (I was and am in the did not agree camp), the rituals connected with his death serve to reinforce several things the are important: (1) The President is head of state and when we honor a former President at his death we honor the state as much as we honor the man; (2) There is a time for political fighting and there is a time, such as a funeral, for policians to put their differences aside; (3) It is important for each generation to be inspired to serve and love their country. Given the republican (that is "republican" with a small "r") history of the United States, we do not have pride-building events such as coronations or royal weddings to inspire our people. For better or worse, state funerals and events related to death (e.g., Gettysburg Address, President Reagan's addresses after the Beirut Marine Barracks bombing and the Challenger disaster), seem to perform a similar role in the United States. A huge expenditure of government money may be hypocritical from a Reaganite perspective and I may be acting true to my "tax and spend" Democratic roots, but I think the money spent on President Reagan's funeral is money well spent.

. . .IIRC. That doesn't suggest "necessity" to me.

. . .IIRC. That doesn't suggest "necessity" to me.

but I think it was a positive thing. I guess I look at it the way that I would a large wedding. One does not have to have a wedding party to be married. But, a large wedding can have lots of benefits (good will, etc. -- I won't get into some of the possible negatives). Now, if one is really broke, spending thousands of dollars on a large wedding is not a good idea. But, the United States hardly is broke, notwithstanding GWB's profiligate spending.

One of the reasons that many former presidents did not have large, state funerals probably was that they were not possible or practicable before the era of a planes and jets. George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, etc. were buried where they died. If you look at the list, most early state funerals were for presidents who died in office. If you look at recent presidential deaths (i.e., those from President Hoover to the present), only Harry Truman and Richard Nixon did not have a state funeral of some sort in Washington (President Roosevelt techinically did not have a state funeral, but he did lie in state in the White House prior to his being transported to Hyde Park and the country was at war at the time of his death). Truman's not having a Washington funeral was in keeping with Truman's style and Nixon (or his family) were smart enough to know that a state funeral only would have been an excuse to heap criticism upon Nixon.

Notwithstanding all that I have said in favor of the Reagan funeral, it will be interesting to see what happens when other former presidents die. I find it hard to imagine that Jerry Ford or Jimmy Carter will have such an extravaganza.

Song of Joy did me in. Nancy's face did me in. Look what ten years did to her face. They made it wise.

Look, as a young idealist I fought Reagan and Reaganomics hammer and tong. I still have a Mondale-Ferraro poster hanging in my shop, right above the stockpiled freewheels. Didn't love Mondale that much, but you had to take a stand (and have a job!) ...

But today reminded me that those wars aren't like today's wars, demonizing and personal. It was policy. Disagreement didn't mean treason, bad policy didn't mean stupidity, and you won some-lost some-fought another day. It wasn't all or nothing, as it is with both parties nowadays. As I said before, Reagan knew how to DEAL when the time came. That's American democracy. We barely even have it anymore, and I miss it. Politics today SUCKS. Both sides are guilty. Own it, my opponents. Own it, my allies. Own it Doug, bill105, and my friend Live Steam. Own it, OldEdScott. We are all guilty.

American politics these days is an embarrassment, and you need only watch cable news or read the absolute poison bullcrap posted on this board every day, by people apparently afflicted with political rabies, to see evidence.

I love politics, I love politicians. I love the institutions of politics and the utterly lovely institution of the American Presidency. Doesn't matter who. Any president, simply by virtue of his amazing achievement -- having the American people elect him to lead them, a covenant so magical and so mysterious that the very idea gives me goosebumps -- deserves a big old expensive sendoff, and if that means three trips across the country, we can surely afford it. How put a price on the covenant?

I would say the same even of a disastrous one-term failure like Bush Jr., or a deeply flawed two-term underachiever like Clinton. Thirty years from now, dead in that coffin, the only salient consideration will be that HE WAS OUR GODDAMN PRESIDENT, elected in the breathtaking alchemy of democracy, and that's a concept that transcends the individual, transcends our petty disputes, trumps every partisan concern.

I really wish politics didn't suck these days. I remember when it didn't.

So godspeed, Ronnie. Nice final touch, this funeral you cooked up for our edification. You always knew how to put on a show. Just for today, I was proud and happy to be in American politics, where everyone who shows up to play is a patriot, no one goes to bed mad, the guys have a sense of humor, and every new day is a new chance to work this great thing out, as the Framers hoped.

Y'all need to think about today, next time you post.

OldEd out --

I'll second your words, and add that I can understand not desiring to see this sort of big deal made for a political enemy. However, I think many people have no comprehension for the hundreds of millions of people who truly love Ronald Reagan, the man. Nothing anyone could say can take that away, particularly on an internet bicycling forum. Reagan himself was way, way above that sort of thing, and I'd like to think that we can be, too. Some just don't understand how much so many people care for him. When I get time, I'll try to explain more, but can't now.

Off for the weekend for a family outing.

Nice words, Ed.

<ul>Monday's viewing of the casket at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley was listed as a "private" family service. Yet it was covered live by multiple cameras, one of which was affixed to the ceiling to capture the dramatic moment when Nancy Reagan laid her cheek on the flag-draped coffin. That "private" image was aired continuously on cable news outlets and appeared the next morning on the front page of dozens of major-market newspapers around the country. - Reported by Eric Boehlert in Salon.</ul>(That does not refer directly to today's proceedings)

I think that Reagan deserved a nice funeral stacked with people who loved and admired him. That said, the overbearing attempts to linoize the man are only racking up opportunities for his opponents to set the record straight by examining truths that are flattering to neither Reagan nor his hagiographers. Classy would have been nice.

It is also very ironic that the self appointed representatives of Reagan's legacy in the GOP do such a disservice to his memory. In his name they continue the dogmatic pursuit of disasterous policies that Reagan himself abandoned (to his own credit). They continue to block medical reasearch avenues that could have spared him the tragedy of Alzheimers. They attempt to bury one of Reagan's political heros, FDR, under their vision of Reagan as the anti-FDR. It goes on and on. Class would be great.

I think that's incredibly unfair. The "private" service was the counterpoint to the state funeral. There was the state funeral, with government and foriegn leaders et.al. paying their official government respects. Then there was the "private" service for family and friends, which was in Simi Valley, where only the family spoke. Two different things. As for the cameras, press interest was extremely high, and they had to accomodate it. Rather than have helicopters buzzing overhead and cameramen hiding in bushes trying to steal a shot, they set up a pool feed. I didn't find anything inappropriate or staged about it.

I watched quite a bit of the private funereal and saw highlights of the state ceremony. Neither the crowds at the ceremonies nor the people lining the streetslooked like a cross section of the American public. Black and Hispanic faces were absent. This was a white Christian service for a leader whose greatest weakness was his narrow, white Christian world view.

I voted for Reagan twice and am glad that I did.

I think it's fair to criticize a funeral service when the deceased decided to make the funereal service a public review of his life.

Don't normally post political stuff BUT....

After watching the proceedings last night I felt better about this country than I have in a long time.

Look, I'm certainly no stranger to PR and media manipulation and emotional images and all that (er, that's my jorb), but you know what? Who the frig cares? One half of me has a pretty high critical intellect, and the other half of me pretty much behaves like a planarian. Stimulus = response.

President Reagan's funeral was designed to evoke a emotional response. And it did. And to that I say God bless.

on this democracy business, but here I think you're onto at least a nub of something. Rush takes the opportunity to say Clinton's funeral will be "a kegger and some babes," and my comrades in Cuba issue a statement on Reagan that "He who should never have been born is dead."

Either way, both sides have the rabies and poison you speak of.

I'm just an academic Marxist, man. I like to argue theory. It's just abstract. This vicious personal hatred that animates something as trivial as American politics (all you capitalists are the same, your differences are slight, why do you argue so?) just mystifies me.