I had been thinking of upgrading for quite some time from my Trek 1000 to a 105 or higher groupset bike. I'd heard about bikesdirect.com and thought I'd give them a shot.

I saw the Motobecane Sprint on sale with the Ultegra groupset and thought it would be a great bargain. Turns out I was right.

The bike only got here today, but was packaged great, looks great and is nice and light. Took it out for a short 5 mile ride (it was 40* here today) and I'm more than pleased. Anyone with any experience taking care of their bike can have it put together in about 20 minutes and completely adjusted in just a few more minutes.

I'm very please to say the least with this bike.

Without trying to start a war. . .were you asked to post this after Joness posted? Just curious.

I had been thinking of upgrading for quite some time from my Trek 1000 to a 105 or higher groupset bike. I'd heard about bikesdirect.com and thought I'd give them a shot.

I saw the Motobecane Sprint on sale with the Ultegra groupset and thought it would be a great bargain. Turns out I was right.

The bike only got here today, but was packaged great, looks great and is nice and light. Took it out for a short 5 mile ride (it was 40* here today) and I'm more than pleased. Anyone with any experience taking care of their bike can have it put together in about 20 minutes and completely adjusted in just a few more minutes.

I'm very please to say the least with this bike.


I'd be curious how the geo and components sizes compares to what was stated. Seems like they would get it right more than they would get it wrong. If you get a chance read the Joness thread and verify all the same measurements.



There certainly are some good deals out there on new bikes this year. Both Performance (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=21954&subcategory_ID=3040) and Nashbar (http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=65&subcategory=1001&brand=&sku=19208&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Road%20Bikes) have bikes that when using the advertised 20% coupons are much better deals than even the BD Sprint.



IMO the Iron horse is a better looking bike as well.http://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photos/medium/IH-ER6.gif

There a review part of the website so I think the proliferation of these is getting old. I also find it odd when someone buys a new bike and within the first day finds a web community where they've never been a member, signs up, and posts an unsolicited testimonial.

But maybe I'm just cynical. OTOH, it seems odd that this phenomenon seems to only happen with one particular vendor.

Without trying to start a war. . .were you asked to post this after Joness posted? Just curious.No. I've been reading these forums for a while now, and thought I'd post a thread. Guess it wasn't wanted.

Chris

Thanks for your purchase and your post

I am sorry that some members here on RBR can not accept an honest input from a new poster. That says something about their character.

Your bike has been extremely popular for us; if you take a close look at the frame you will note the best aluminum to carbon joint I have ever seen. This is due to the frame being not from China, but from Kinesis's best custom frame shop in Taiwan. Take a look at the joint from carbon stay to aluminum frame on other bikes that you see and you will instantly know what I mean. An exteremely nice frame for any bike and exceptional for a bike under $1000.

If you ever need anything, just let me know.

Thanks again

Mike

There a review part of the website so I think the proliferation of these is getting old. I also find it odd when someone buys a new bike and within the first day finds a web community where they've never been a member, signs up, and posts an unsolicited testimonial.

But maybe I'm just cynical. OTOH, it seems odd that this phenomenon seems to only happen with one particular vendor.


FWIW - I was essentially one of those folks. However, if you look here and at Bikeforums you will see that I am quickly becoming fairly active and 90% of my posts have nothing to do with BD or their bikes.

There might actually be some good reasons for this pattern. This is just a guess or what makes sense to me (as it was me).
I think BD.com probably sells a lot of bikes to people new to biking. Take my example - I have to believe it has been replicated many times before and after me. I am a runner and wanted to get into biking. I am very internet savvy. Computer networking pays my bills. I have bought everything from aftershave to cars and boats on the internet. So . . . what is the first thing I do when I think about getting a bike? Go to LBS? Nope. I go to the internet. At a minimum I wanted to know as much as I could when I went to the LBS so as to be on the level playing field with salesmen. I think doing anything less with a purchase of this amount is crazy. BD, for as much as it gets laughed at for a bad website, does a good enough job to be found in ads or in searches. I have no real history in cycling or any real loyalty to a LBS. This makes me a perfect person to buy on-line. I have an arrogance that equiped with the right research I can make a choice like buying a bike I have never touched. That might be dumb, I do not know.

Someone like me is going to be new to a site like this, as I did not really bike. I see how heated these threads get . . . and I honestly think I got a killer deal. I also think most people's view of LBS' on this site are so over-inflated (just as you might think BD.com reviews are). In a few days of on-line research I knew more about every bike I looked at in a LBS than the salesmen did. They spent about as much time fitting me as I did typing this single line.

The only real proof is time. I will end up squarely in the legit side in your book in 6 months, I know that. I will post at both bike forums too much to just be a shill helping BD out. I had over 10k posts on a golf forum, so I am not new to forums. Some people with a one-off BD.com review might never post again. That is suspect, but even that is not factual evidence of shillness. Maybe they get scared off by the heat they get. Who knows.

I assure you I am real, I live in Indy (Noblesville actually), I made a tough decision to buy a $1500 bike site unseen from a place that gets negative posts like a political thread, and Mike or anyone from BD never pointed me to this place to post a review. I find mike via this site as I was making my decision. His PMs did help make my choice.

Greg

There a review part of the website so I think the proliferation of these is getting old. I also find it odd when someone buys a new bike and within the first day finds a web community where they've never been a member, signs up, and posts an unsolicited testimonial.

But maybe I'm just cynical. OTOH, it seems odd that this phenomenon seems to only happen with one particular vendor.

Point #2
Why didn't you post this same thing in the other thread with the person with a negative report (geometry way off, etc)? First post of thiers as well. I think there is an assumption with many on this site that a negative BD (or their retail stores, or their ebay outlets) is a true honest report and the postive ones are fake.

FWIW - I was essentially one of those folks. However, if you look here and at Bikeforums you will see that I am quickly becoming fairly active and 90% of my posts have nothing to do with BD or their bikes.

There might actually be some good reasons for this pattern. This is just a guess or what makes sense to me (as it was me).
I think BD.com probably sells a lot of bikes to people new to biking. Take my example - I have to believe it has been replicated many times before and after me. I am a runner and wanted to get into biking. I am very internet savvy. Computer networking pays my bills. I have bought everything from aftershave to cars and boats on the internet. So . . . what is the first thing I do when I think about getting a bike? Go to LBS? Nope. I go to the internet. At a minimum I wanted to know as much as I could when I went to the LBS so as to be on the level playing field with salesmen. I think doing anything less with a purchase of this amount is crazy. BD, for as much as it gets laughed at for a bad website, does a good enough job to be found in ads or in searches. I have no real history in cycling or any real loyalty to a LBS. This makes me a perfect person to buy on-line. I have an arrogance that equiped with the right research I can make a choice like buying a bike I have never touched. That might be dumb, I do not know.

Someone like me is going to be new to a site like this, as I did not really bike. I see how heated these threads get . . . and I honestly think I got a killer deal. I also think most people's view of LBS' on this site are so over-inflated (just as you might think BD.com reviews are). In a few days of on-line research I knew more about every bike I looked at in a LBS than the salesmen did. They spent about as much time fitting me as I did typing this single line.

The only real proof is time. I will end up squarely in the legit side in your book in 6 months, I know that. I will post at both bike forums too much to just be a shill helping BD out. I had over 10k posts on a golf forum, so I am not new to forums. Some people with a one-off BD.com review might never post again. That is suspect, but even that is not factual evidence of shillness. Maybe they get scared off by the heat they get. Who knows.

I assure you I am real, I live in Indy (Noblesville actually), I made a tough decision to buy a $1500 bike site unseen from a place that gets negative posts like a political thread, and Mike or anyone from BD never pointed me to this place to post a review. I find mike via this site as I was making my decision. His PMs did help make my choice.

Greg
I am another one of those folks.. I used to bike about 20 years ago before the kids. When I had an interest a year ago last July I searched the internet for information and came to this and a few other forums. I can't remember for sure but I probably only had a few posts before I got my Windsor from BD. Now I am up to almost 500 posts and I would guess 5% or so fall into the BD catagory.

I'll add my $.02 to this never ending debate. The new posters aren't really telling us anything new. The bike arrives well packaged and they are a great deal. Sadly, that's where the reviews end...One ride around the block doesn't tell us anything...

I bought a Windsor The Hour fixed gear 3 weeks ago and I've been holding off reviewing the bike in the fixed gear forum because I want to do a review that actually included riding the bike for a period of time. I've ridden it around 300 miles so far and I can say that I've been very pleased with the bike. I've had no problems or issues. Is the bike perfect? nope...no bike is... but for a $300 complete fixed gear, it's an amazing value..I'll do a complete review in the fixed forum once I get a few more mile on the bike and can objectively give my opinion.

What this forum needs is less "Buying Experience" threads and more "Riding Experience" threads

I'll add my $.02 to this never ending debate. The new posters aren't really telling us anything new. The bike arrives well packaged and they are a great deal. Sadly, that's where the reviews end...One ride around the block doesn't tell us anything...

I bought a Windsor The Hour fixed gear 3 weeks ago and I've been holding off reviewing the bike in the fixed gear forum because I want to do a review that actually included riding the bike for a period of time. I've ridden it around 300 miles so far and I can say that I've been very pleased with the bike. I've had no problems or issues. Is the bike perfect? nope...no bike is... but for a $300 complete fixed gear, it's an amazing value..I'll do a complete review in the fixed forum once I get a few more mile on the bike and can objectively give my opinion.

What this forum needs is less "Buying Experience" threads and more "Riding Experience" threads

That is a good point. Here is my answer to this question (and not saying this would be everyone's):
I love this bike so far, but to be honest at this point (a few rides of 30 miles or so - weather here is 14* cold today) I would probably love every bike I tried at the LBS or a number of bikes from BD. Just any decent road bike would seem like a great riding bike.
I am a n00b. At this point I cannot really come on here and talk about how stiff the frame is (like I could tell), or how good these Ritchey rims are, etc. I would sound like a total tool and I am sure I would get slammed for it (as well I should). Just like as someone with a full DA set I am not about to get into any thread talking about the pros and cons of such. I have no clue.

What I can talk about is how the bike looks and how the transaction went. I will be real honest - I felt deeply compelled to post a report of how good things went. Why? When I spent about 30 days reading every single thing google.com could find on BikesDirect and their brand names I found a lot of what I now believe is misinformation. Stuff like they never have any of these specials in stock, they are very hard to get money back when they do not ship your bike, etc - stuff that makes them sound like they will take your money and you get no bike. Various 'horror' stories took me away from going with them. I had decided on going with an LBS. It was only that I could not decide between two bikes that lead me to post here. In that post I mentioned BD and that I considered it, but that I was going with a Bianchi or Giant. Mike from DB posted and them PM'd with me. Yep, he sold me on his shop. Since I mentioned his site in my post, I think this was plenty ethical.
Maybe the next Indygreg will read my post, with my pics, etc and give them a fair shot. People on both sides think there is misinformation about BD. The side that hates them thinks all positive reports are fake and shills. I think some of the anti posts are completely false as well. The one with the broken front fork for example. Many of the ones saying they do not reply to emails. Every email I sent was answered fast, before and after the sale.

I hope to provide a good '1 year later' review next fall. Once I have put a good number of miles on it, learned more and more, and even a few tri races.

Dave, I agree with you. I was just curious due to the timing more than anything if BD put the poster up to posting a review. I don't care if they did, but I would hope the poster would say that they were asked to post the review. I wouldn't question it then.

My thing is that I'd like people to hold off for at least 500 miles of riding (or something like that) before posting "it's beautiful, it took 15 minutes to set up, the wheels were a little untrue, but I've only ridden around the block". This tells me nothing. I could get a similar review from a GMC walmart bike "It's clean, nice paint, blah, blah". Like you said, a good review will have some miles under it in order to be objective.

But, I know some people are just SO excited about their first roadbike that they just had to post a glowing review. Ugh. :)

That is a good point. Here is my answer to this question (and not saying this would be everyone's):
I love this bike so far, but to be honest at this point (a few rides of 30 miles or so - weather here is 14* cold today) I would probably love every bike I tried at the LBS or a number of bikes from BD. Just any decent road bike would seem like a great riding bike.
I am a n00b. At this point I cannot really come on here and talk about how stiff the frame is (like I could tell), or how good these Ritchey rims are, etc. I would sound like a total tool and I am sure I would get slammed for it (as well I should). Just like as someone with a full DA set I am not about to get into any thread talking about the pros and cons of such. I have no clue.

What I can talk about is how the bike looks and how the transaction went. I will be real honest - I felt deeply compelled to post a report of how good things went. Why? When I spent about 30 days reading every single thing google.com could find on BikesDirect and their brand names I found a lot of what I now believe is misinformation. Stuff like they never have any of these specials in stock, they are very hard to get money back when they do not ship your bike, etc - stuff that makes them sound like they will take your money and you get no bike. Various 'horror' stories took me away from going with them. I had decided on going with an LBS. It was only that I could not decide between two bikes that lead me to post here. In that post I mentioned BD and that I considered it, but that I was going with a Bianchi or Giant. Mike from DB posted and them PM'd with me. Yep, he sold me on his shop. Since I mentioned his site in my post, I think this was plenty ethical.
Maybe the next Indygreg will read my post, with my pics, etc and give them a fair shot. People on both sides think there is misinformation about BD. The side that hates them thinks all positive reports are fake and shills. I think some of the anti posts are completely false as well. The one with the broken front fork for example. Many of the ones saying they do not reply to emails. Every email I sent was answered fast, before and after the sale.

I hope to provide a good '1 year later' review next fall. Once I have put a good number of miles on it, learned more and more, and even a few tri races.

A lot of what you write has some truth. I may of written a review before, I don't remember. So here it goes( again?). I have my Windsor Kennett for about 15 months. I have put about 3500 miles on the bike during this time. You are correct as I really don't have anything to compare the bike too ride wise, other than my 25 year old steel Raleigh. On that note I will say that has far as comfort I find the bikes ride fairly similar. I ride some of the same routes with each bike and they feel pretty similar. However the longest ride recently with the Raleigh has been about 25 miles while I have gone up to 80 miles on the Windsor. After 80 miles I wasn't beat up as is the reputation with aluminum frames. I am 58 years old so I would know if it was harsh. One thing I do notice is the bike is very responsive when I want to accelerate.I don't feel any energy is waisted. I am a fairly big guy at 210 lbs and can accelerate past most of the members of my club on the flats.I don't feel any flex in the frame when I do this. But again as mentioned, I can't say for sure if this is better, worse or just equal to other bikes currently out there
.
The bike seemed to be adjusted well out of the box. However I took it to my LBS to put on the front brake and make any adjustments necessary. I really don't know if they made any or how much. The bike shifted perfectly, even under load, going uphill from when I got it back from the LBS also the brakes were smooth. The bike tracked well, with no vibrations even going downhill at 40 mph. Again I can't compare the bike to any other bike other than my 25 year old bike.At about the 2000 mile mark which was about 9 or 10 months, I can't remember exactly the bike started not to shift as well . The chain while riding wasn't quite as quiet and the shifting wasn't as crisp. I figured there was some cable stretching so I took it to a LBS for a tune up/check up. They checked/adjusted everything and to this point about 1500 miles later the bike is still running smoothly.

I switched out quite a few parts since I received the bike. Mostly for better performance or to save some weight. I didn't like the Shimano R-550 wheels which came with the bike even though they have a decent if not great reputation. So I got Velocity Areohead wheels With Sapim CX-Ray spokes, saved about 300 grams and they spin much better. The new wheels are 1550 grams and so far no problems for a 210 lb rider. The saddle was very cheap, as was expected, and since have changed it 4 times, finally settling on a Specialized Toupe, which I like very much. I had to replace the stem as it was too long. One of the downsides to buying online. But I managed to pick up a very nice and light Syntace-99 stem for around $60 on ebay. The pedals were fine, but I wanted to go lighter so I got Performance Titanium/magnesium petals again for a good deal on ebay. The seat post was fine. No problem but I fell in love with a Thompson Masterpiece I saw on someones bike and had to have one. I picked up one very slightly used from someone on another forum for a very good deal. I think that is about it. So from my original $1100 purchase with another maybe $400 if you factor in the exchange value of the parts I swapped, I think I have a pretty decent bike with a few high end parts. But again with a $1500 budget could I have a bike that rode or performed better I can't say for sure but one thing I do know the components wouldn't be better.

The photo of the bike is before the Toupe saddle and Thompson seatpost.

I think you definitely pulled away from the Shill Arena :). I've liked your posts on this bike and realize it is doing well. And honestly, I don't think I expected any problems to be reported from you on it. It's really hard to build an AL-Carbon bike and have issues with it unless it is in the geometry (definitely exceptions though). Glad to hear the bike is doing well for you. My Felt F55 is basically the same kind of AL-Carb and is doing well also. I really like it but still drool over the better carbon bikes people post from time to time on this board.

I think you definitely pulled away from the Shill Arena :). I've liked your posts on this bike and realize it is doing well. And honestly, I don't think I expected any problems to be reported from you on it. It's really hard to build an AL-Carbon bike and have issues with it unless it is in the geometry (definitely exceptions though). Glad to hear the bike is doing well for you. My Felt F55 is basically the same kind of AL-Carb and is doing well also. I really like it but still drool over the better carbon bikes people post from time to time on this board.
At the end of the day it is really about the engine. On a 50 mile club ride about a month ago there was this guy on a 30 lb. folding bike. One of the cheaper folding bikes with those tiny wheels. No toe clips, just sneakers on the flat pedals. We are the "B" group and average about 16 mph on our hilly rides out on Long Island, NY. Well this guy on the beginning of the hills would stay at the back. About halfway up he would zoom past everyone to the front. Then if there was a straightaway he would go out to the front and break the wind. It was starting to piss me off, but in a nice way. Typically the group stays together on the rides, but in the last few miles a few riders will race to the lot. Well since it was a straight, and that is my strength I and a few other riders got about a half mile out front, with the guy on the folding bike. While he couldn't pass us, as he definately tried, he was right up there to the lot.

That being said I think most bike owners get "bike envy". Whether someone, like myself is happy with my purchase, or someone with a $5000 bike as soon as you see a more expensive bike, (read better) you lust for it. Just human nature.

*sigh*

*sigh*

Yet another great reply when someone counterpoints yout.

Add in a 'nevermind' next please. That is a great one too.

Dude, if you can't see the difference, I don't have the time to explain it to you.

Dude, if you can't see the difference, I don't have the time to explain it to you.


Do you have a list of these? Another awesome reply that clearly shows you have nothing to say to a reply. Is there a site I can just get the list from or do I need to keep replying?

:rolleyes: Do you have a list of these? Another awesome reply that clearly shows you have nothing to say to a reply. Is there a site I can just get the list from or do I need to keep replying?

I agree with you, greg, it is like a broken record.

I can assure you that Indygreg is real and I am happy he has gotten such a great bike within his budget and glad he has joined the cycling community and hope to do some riding with him this winter and definitely next summer.

I have not bought anything bike related through the internet. However, I am interested in these posts and experiences of internet purchasers. At first I thought these attacks on excited newcomers were really anti-internet purchasing. I now believe it is anti new forum member. That is about the only thing it could be since the new posters have moved over to this forum and are still being abused. Isn't this where they are supposed to go to discuss their experience with these bikes? The only people that will now see these posts are the ones interested in these bikes AND the true trollers who have decided to follow them over here.:p

Let's use a little common sense. With the exchange of information on the internet, if BikesDirect was really a bad deal, this shilling that people are being accused, even if it were true and I do not believe it to be currently(it may have been true in the past but I was not here then), would not be effective very long in this information age. This is a free forum and it would not take long for the disgruntled purchasers to find there way here and to post on other forums. I was appalled at the attacks on Indygreg and had not viewed this forum for a few weeks. To my dismay it is still continuing over here.

I think I will go over to the general thread and start asking every Colnago, Pinarello, etc posters to move their threads to the proper manufacturing thread and see how they like it.:p

There's a long history on this and it's just as bad in the other forums. Unfortunately BD's employees really created a bad rep. The owner has/is working to make sure it doesn't happen anymore but once you get fed a pile of crap it's very hard to get rid of the taste. As for being anti-new posters on this board. . .that's crap and you know it. People are happily welcomed here constantly. Just go check out the beginners forum as an example.

EDIT: Just realized you used "forum". If that's correct, and you meant anti-new member in the Motobecane forum, then I'll admit there's a bias towards getting irritated with first time posters with "Nice packaging, shiney paint, slight adjustment, 30 miles, rides wonderfully although never owned roadbike, good customer service. . .etc, etc.".

There's a long history on this and it's just as bad in the other forums. Unfortunately BD's employees really created a bad rep. The owner has/is working to make sure it doesn't happen anymore but once you get fed a pile of crap it's very hard to get rid of the taste. As for being anti-new posters on this board. . .that's crap and you know it. People are happily welcomed here constantly. Just go check out the beginners forum as an example.

EDIT: Just realized you used "forum". If that's correct, and you meant anti-new member in the Motobecane forum, then I'll admit there's a bias towards getting irritated with first time posters with "Nice packaging, shiney paint, slight adjustment, 30 miles, rides wonderfully although never owned roadbike, good customer service. . .etc, etc.".

No, I don't know that. You don't have to tell me what I know and don't know. Like Yogi said, I was there. It is even on the beginner's discussion. I saw a member reprimanded on the beginner's forum for criticizing a newcomer's questions. I could not believe it, but I saw it.

And no, it is not as bad on other bicycle forums I have participated. It stands out here!

Why get irritated? You don't have to read the thread. I certainly not to if it is something I am not interested in. Although, recently I did get very disgusted with someone making a generalized rant about LBS's and commented on their whining. So I am guilty on that one.

What I do know is that I meant Indygreg on the general discussion when he was abruptly told his post belonged in this discussion area with no explanation of any kind. No welcome. No education. Nothing. I have been bike riding 20 years and participating on this forum since summer and I was not aware of the bashing wars. All I saw was very unkind treatment of Indygreg with no justification if you were not aware of the convtroversy, which he and I were not. You need to do some honest examination of the Forum, not denial.

There were at least 6 threads on the first page of the general discussion, based on subject heading only, there may have been more, that should have been on a manufacturer's forum if the same criteria were applied to those threads as Indygreg's. Being the nice man he is, Indygreg apologized, though he had done nothing wrong other than be excited about getting into cycling and finding such a nice bike within his budget. It wasn't until I saw the thread from the moderator asking for a truce and read some of the other threads that I understood.

Indygreg took the whole thing much better than I. I was pretty disgusted about the whole thing. I don't know why I expected it to change.

Where is this reviews discussion that one of the members said this thread belongs? It is not allowed in the General Discussion or now apparently this discussion, which it was sent to. Do you want me to continue on or do you want to stay in denial?:rolleyes:

There's a long history on this and it's just as bad in the other forums. Unfortunately BD's employees really created a bad rep. The owner has/is working to make sure it doesn't happen anymore but once you get fed a pile of crap it's very hard to get rid of the taste. As for being anti-new posters on this board. . .that's crap and you know it. People are happily welcomed here constantly. Just go check out the beginners forum as an example.

EDIT: Just realized you used "forum". If that's correct, and you meant anti-new member in the Motobecane forum, then I'll admit there's a bias towards getting irritated with first time posters with "Nice packaging, shiney paint, slight adjustment, 30 miles, rides wonderfully although never owned roadbike, good customer service. . .etc, etc.".

By the way, I go to the Beginner's discussion constantly and occasionally learn something but mostly to see if I can help someone.:thumbsup:

dekindy and indygreg, I got your backs on this one, I totally agree with everything you're getting at.


Oh yeah...jt why are you always so condescending???

dekindy and indygreg, I got your backs on this one, I totally agree with everything you're getting at.


Oh yeah...jt why are you always so condescending???

Thanks. They will probably call us the three stooges, but that is okay, I am growing a thicker skin just for RoadBikesReview.com!:D

I will have to admit, this is the best website for reviews and those have helped me tremendously with my purchases this year.:thumbsup:

I know some of the bad blood history. I googled everything I could before I bought an internet bike.

As I tried to explain, I come here to try to keep giving my positive side as I think there is a lot of bad publicity out there that is not fair. I think if someone does not even consider BD or Leader or Ibex or whatever all the internet options are - IMHO they are cutting out too many options. I am not saying internet is best for everyone or even maybe half or or even 10% of buyers, but not even thinking it is a safe and real option is wrong.

Fact is there will be initial reviews of BD in THIS folder. They MAKE SENSE in this folder. If this folder were nothing but these . . . I do not see the harm. This forum and its users have forced any topic that even hints at BD off to this folder - more so than any other maker or brand or website. So just let this folder be what it is.

I'll add my $.02 to this never ending debate. The new posters aren't really telling us anything new. The bike arrives well packaged and they are a great deal. Sadly, that's where the reviews end...One ride around the block doesn't tell us anything...

I bought a Windsor The Hour fixed gear 3 weeks ago and I've been holding off reviewing the bike in the fixed gear forum because I want to do a review that actually included riding the bike for a period of time. I've ridden it around 300 miles so far and I can say that I've been very pleased with the bike. I've had no problems or issues. Is the bike perfect? nope...no bike is... but for a $300 complete fixed gear, it's an amazing value..I'll do a complete review in the fixed forum once I get a few more mile on the bike and can objectively give my opinion.

What this forum needs is less "Buying Experience" threads and more "Riding Experience" threads

I'm with you about not rushing reviews. I bought a Specialized Sequoia almost a year ago. If I posted a review of it in the first few weeks it wouldn't have been very good. It had some teething trouble, but good (and fast) warranty service by both the LBS and Specialized got them corrected and it's gone almost 3000 miles without anything more than lubrication, deariler adjustments, and a front wheel truing tweak.

When shopping for a road bike last year I considered buying from Bikes Direct. When I went to their site they offered some brands (which they no longer list) at great prices- yet had nothing in stock expect for Motobecane. I have nothing against that brand, per se, but it appeared pretty obvious to me that they were listing those other brands for "search engine optimization," less politely known as bait and switch. In fairness, I went back to their site just now, and it appears they no longer list bikes they don't actually carry- at least they say they have the bikes listed in stock.

I have nothing against buying bikes online. I bought my Mountain Bike from Bicycle Bananas a couple of years ago. The only complaint I can level is that the rear derailer wasn't adjusted quite right when it got here. On the other hand, if there were warranty issues like I had with the road bike, it might have been more difficult to get them corrected. The LBS adds quite a premium- so you should expect great customer service.

And if I were to review your Windsor, it will probably start with- "It doesn't have enough gears." :) You fixie guys either live in flat country or can squat tons.

..... So just let this folder be what it is.


What's that? Free advertising?

What's that? Free advertising?

It would be interesting to know whether BD was an exclusive, or near exclusive Motobecane dealer in the U.S.- in which case the folder could just be relabeled BD. There are several LBSs around here, and they carry some pretty esoteric brands, but I've never seen a Motobecane in any of them. The Motobecane site has a "dealer locator," but it's an email form so there's no way to tell if they have one dealer or a thousand.

They aren't carried by any independent shops. To the extent they are found in a couple of brick and mortar outlets (Az, Tx, Fla, maybe) those stores (Cycle Spectrum, I think) are part of the same family of corporations. BD isn't just an exclusive Motobecane "dealer" in the US... they essentially ARE Motobecane. Ownership of the old Motobecane name (note, it is not the same company as the bikes marketed out of France 30 years ago) is again within that same corporate family.

The upside is that the horizontal consolidation of every stage from R&D to production to sales in an interrelated family of companies is what keeps the prices so low compared to bike companies who are sold through middle men (independent dealers)

They aren't carried by any independent shops. To the extent they are found in a couple of brick and mortar outlets (Az, Tx, Fla, maybe) those stores (Cycle Spectrum, I think) are part of the same family of corporations. BD isn't just an exclusive Motobecane "dealer" in the US... they essentially ARE Motobecane. Ownership of the old Motobecane name (note, it is not the same company as the bikes marketed out of France 30 years ago) is again within that same corporate family.

The upside is that the horizontal consolidation of every stage from R&D to production to sales in an interrelated family of companies is what keeps the prices so low compared to bike companies who are sold through middle men (independent dealers)

I didn't know the Motobecane name had been sold. (Somebody's bought the old Bell and Howell name and is selling Chinese electronics under that name- sad.) A friend in highschool had an old Motobecane and he loved that bike. I can't comment on the new ones. Some of them seem to have first rate groupos at great prices. Do you know if Motobecane actually makes bikes, or do they just sub-contract parts and have them assembled? Even that wouldn't necessarily be bad if they design the bikes themselves, but if they're just buying readymade frames from the cheapest Chinese factory that wouldn't impress me much.

I didn't know the Motobecane name had been sold. (Somebody's bought the old Bell and Howell name and is selling Chinese electronics under that name- sad.) A friend in highschool had an old Motobecane and he loved that bike. I can't comment on the new ones. Some of them seem to have first rate groupos at great prices. Do you know if Motobecane actually makes bikes, or do they just sub-contract parts and have them assembled? Even that wouldn't necessarily be bad if they design the bikes themselves, but if they're just buying readymade frames from the cheapest Chinese factory that wouldn't impress me much.

If you read through some of the other threads on this forum and specifically the post by Mike (who owns BD) you will find that the bikes are made by the same frame manufactures and assembled by the same companies as most other production brands.

However, he pretty much admits to not having to do any R&D since he copies the geo and specs of other companies. Namely Fuji. Since one of the frame makers he uses is also owned by Fuji (or the other way around) they don't seem to mind.

This is one of the factors that sets BD apart from other internet retailers like Leader or Ibex and even some of the economy shop brands like felt. Those companies all have designers and/or engineers on staff to help with the R&D. BD and their house brands (Moto, Mercier, Windsor, et. al.) don't employ folks for this purpose. I believe his "brands" don't employ anyone. In this light his stuff would be more comparable to a house brand from Performance or Nashbar. NTTAWWT

To keep prices down he has his sister in-law sell bikes on ebay and ship them out of her house.

There are some people on these forums with very poor character.

Theses people have no problem with making statements of facts without qualifications; even when they do not know for sure what the facts are.

The intelligently honest approach is to qualify such statements. With “I think”, “It appears to me”, “I believe”. Etc.

When I see someone make a statement that they can not be in a position to know is true or false AND they do not qualify the statement; I am lead to believe they lack personal integrity and thus I discount their opinions. These statements are at best opinions which they are presenting as facts. At worst they are lies designed to support their agenda.


There are lots of people on the forums that will state facts and opinions; and make it clear which is which. And there are lots of people with an enormous amount of knowledge and direct personal experience they share with the readers. It is a shame that visitors have to pick though so many false statements to get to the facts and useful information.

.... It is a shame that visitors have to pick though so many false statements to get to the facts and useful information.

Kind of like on your website:)

Don't know if you mean me, Mike. If I've misstated any facts, correct them. I don't think I have. I looked a bunch of this up when one of your employees was posted bad info under the screen name collectorvelo. That exchange is probably somewhere still on the board... can't remember which forum.

I didn't trash your company. Why are you and your purchasers so thin-skinned about the slightest of criticism on this board? The lashing out that others get when they post ANYTHING other than your party line never ceases to amaze me. I do believe that your horizontal structure of consolidating everything from production to distribution absolutely controls costs and gives more bang for the buck. I've never had an issue with your products (though as you know I take issue with the "MSRP" listed for reasons you and I have discussed). I would never say "don't buy a Moto" ... and in fact have encouraged at least one person to bike a Motobecane.

I have no issue with the people or the product. My concerns have a pretty narrow focus, most of which relate to the very specific history on this board, which I think is improving all the time. To the extent I have concerns with a couple of marketing claims, I've stated 'em too. Some may say "BD is the devil" but I don't. By the same token, I'd appreciate the courtesy of likewise not being demonized for having concerns that didn't exactly come out of thin air.

Always, really? You have 22 posts in 3 months. Read my history on this forum. "always condescending" is neither my rep nor my style.

The simple fact is that a number of false testimonials WERE posted on this board and IP addresses traced back to the company. Then after the company promised to stop the shilling, at least one "review" was posted and after questioning, the guy (who had claimed to be reviewing the bike for a defunct magazine) admitted that he came to the forum and posted it at BD's request. The simple fact is that those of us who have been around the block on this issue retain a healthy skepticism. I believe in the power of true consumer-to-consumer information exchange. This particular company broke that trust and you'll just have to pardon me if it takes a long time to get it back.

Dude, this isn't personal. Don't be so defensive. YOu are right that I don't have concerns about folks who post less-than-stellar experiences because I don't suspect that those were posted at the request of the company (for the logical reason that the company probably doesn't make arrangements to criticize itself). I thought that distinction didn't need to be said, but since you've obviously gotten ticked off and I'm not looking to make this personal, that's the explanation.

As I noted above, and I'm not being sarcastic, maybe I AM just cynical. There is a good historical basis for being a little suspicious. Even without that actual history (shills busted by their IP addresses) I have got to say that no other manufacturer forum has the proliferation of brand new people who join the forum just to post a detailed discussion of the purchase of their bike quite like in this one. It seems to defy common sense that it just spontaneously happens, particularly when coupled with the fact that this is one of the only manufacturers that so openly markets its product in these forums.

Dat's the scoop.

They aren't carried by any independent shops.

Since you have ask - there is a false statement quoted right above. I do not want to get in a flame war over this. I just wish people would be more precise when they make statements like this and get the facts first.

It does not effect the value of what we sell; but it is just not accruate.

I appreciate your reccomendation of our bikes to some customers. I think you will find as others have; we deliver at least what we promise and in most cases more.

Actually, if you look at how I qualified "independent" I think it is still accurate. Does anyone other than Cycle Spectrum carry your bikes? Your own website has a link to a "dealer list" with no dealer list. But otherwise, I'm happy to stand correct. Despite the unnecesary aspersions cast above towards me (not by you), I think those who really know me on this board know that I'm pretty fair, not prone to ad homs, and happy to admit when I am wrong.

Actually, if you look at how I qualified "independent" I think it is still accurate. Does anyone other than Cycle Spectrum carry your bikes? Your own website has a link to a "dealer list" with no dealer list. But otherwise, I'm happy to stand correct. Despite the unnecesary aspersions cast above towards me (not by you), I think those who really know me on this board know that I'm pretty fair, not prone to ad homs, and happy to admit when I am wrong.


If 'pretty fair' means it is OK to make unqualifed statements which you do not know if they are true are not - I guess you are.

However, I would think fair would mean if you are guessing; you would say so.

Or say "I think" or "It seems to me".

You did not qualify 'independent'. I know what independent means. And there are dealers who have nothing what so ever to do with me [other than being customers] who carry Motobecane, Mercier, and others of our brands.

I think you have thus made my point for me. You and others make statements about my brands and other brands that you represent as fact. Many times these statements are false.

I have read on RBR and other forums false statements about Felt, Ibex, Leader, Trek, Cannondale, Fuji, Specialized, Motobecane, etc. What bothers me is when people make statements as if they know them to be a fact without using qualification.

It is easy to add "I guess", "I think", "it appears to me", and it makes things clearer. Especially it helps if you are saying something that turns out to be totally false.

It is very hard to stay ahead of the curve on correctly these false statements. I guess this is why so few major suppliers of road bikes ever post on forums. How could one keep up with the rash of unfounded postings?

Mr jtolleson, I think you might have believed what you posted. My only point is; you should have qualified it or researched the topic more or sent me a PM. Then you could have avoided making a false statement which reflects more on you than on anyone else.

To your credit, you do not seem to be a mindless hater; such as some on this and other forums. Some of whom flame us, some flame Cannondale, some Felt, some Trek, etc.
Of course, those types loss all creditability and so who cares what they say?

Whoa, Nellie. I guess someone is ticked. What I said was that the independent dealers were Cycle Spectrum stores, and that those are part of the same corporate family. If you are saying that folks other than Cycle Spectrum carry your bikes (I asked; you didn't answer) or that there is no ownership overlap between BD and Cycle Spectrum, just say so. And I'll stand corrected.

Anything else you want to correct, that's fine too. But I don't see the inaccuracy in my description above, nor did I see it as critical.

My ENTIRE post, rather than the one sentence that you cite as inaccurate, was as follows:

They aren't carried by any independent shops. To the extent they are found in a couple of brick and mortar outlets (Az, Tx, Fla, maybe) those stores (Cycle Spectrum, I think) are part of the same family of corporations. BD isn't just an exclusive Motobecane "dealer" in the US... they essentially ARE Motobecane.

Whoa, Nellie. I guess someone is ticked. What I said was that the independent dealers were Cycle Spectrum stores, and that those are part of the same corporate family. If you are saying that folks other than Cycle Spectrum carry your bikes (I asked; you didn't answer) or that there is no ownership overlap between BD and Cycle Spectrum, just say so. And I'll stand corrected.

Anything else you want to correct, that's fine too. But I don't see the inaccuracy in my description above, nor did I see it as critical.

My ENTIRE post, rather than the one sentence that you cite as inaccurate, was as follows:

They aren't carried by any independent shops. To the extent they are found in a couple of brick and mortar outlets (Az, Tx, Fla, maybe) those stores (Cycle Spectrum, I think) are part of the same family of corporations. BD isn't just an exclusive Motobecane "dealer" in the US... they essentially ARE Motobecane.

Mr jtolleson, Maybe I am not being clear enough.

YOU MADE A FALSE STATEMENT; PERIOD.

You will not take my word for that. Why?

There are stores that carry Motobecane that have zero to do with Bikesdirect, Cycle Spectrum, or any other the other companies that I own.

These are independent dealers who buy from us the same as they buy from Trek, Raleigh, Bianchi, or any other supplier.

The internet is full of infomation on customers buying new Motobecanes at shops other than mine. There are sites where other dealers list Motobecane as a brand they carry.
I had even posted this just three days ago "But I had promised the extra ones I could get to a dealer in California. That dealer has two big shops and is selling them like crazy."

I really do not understand why you and others think it is ok to post things as facts when you do not know for sure. However, I give up on the matter and will let the reader determine their own feelings about such behavior.

Well, then edumacate me. Is it that BD is sold by dealers other than Cycle Spectum? Or is it that Cycle Spectrum is truly unaffilated with BD? Is it both?

I'm happy to take in the data. It isn't that I'm not taking your word for it. You say that you own Cycle Spectrum. You also own BD. That sounds like what I was saying. I'm hoping to get information, so there's no need for you to fling mud.

PS -- what in the world was it about my latest post (above) which just asked questions made you so mad? Seriously. I am baffled. Instead of just taking pot shots at me, you could have said, for example, that your bikes are sold by 58 dealers (hypothetical), 25 of which are Cycle Spectrum stores. Or something. My post was questions. Yours could have been answers, not insults. I asked:

Whoa, Nellie. I guess someone is ticked. What I said was that the independent dealers were Cycle Spectrum stores, and that those are part of the same corporate family. If you are saying that folks other than Cycle Spectrum carry your bikes (I asked; you didn't answer) or that there is no ownership overlap between BD and Cycle Spectrum, just say so. And I'll stand corrected.

Anything else you want to correct, that's fine too. But I don't see the inaccuracy in my description above, nor did I see it as critical.

Well, then edumacate me. Is it that BD is sold by dealers other than Cycle Spectum? Or is it that Cycle Spectrum is truly unaffilated with BD? Is it both?

I'm happy to take in the data. It isn't that I'm not taking your word for it. You say that you own Cycle Spectrum. You also own BD. That sounds like what I was saying. I'm hoping to get information, so there's no need for you to fling mud.

PS -- what in the world was it about my latest post (above) which just asked questions made you so mad? Seriously. I am baffled. Instead of just taking pot shots at me, you could have said, for example, that your bikes are sold by 58 dealers (hypothetical), 25 of which are Cycle Spectrum stores. Or something.


you ask - here is what makes me mad

People stating things as facts when they do not know. This leads to all types of bad things.

you could use google

type in

motobecane in bike shop

and find a dealer that has zero to do with me or bikesdirect or cycle spectrum

you could read posts all over the net of people looking at motobecane bikes in shops in seattle or san deigo

you could PM me and ask - do other dealers besides shops you own sell motobecanes

you could do a lot of things

but in stead you say something you are not in a position to know or you are unwilling to take the time to find out -- it is not fair

now, one reason I am mad about this is due to things people have said about me or my brands that are totally false. another reason is things I have read people say about other brands and people I know; which are totally false

you can pick to be part of this problem, if you like
you can continue to make false statements without backup
and soon you will be as unimportant as a poster as several others on RBR that are known to post total crap without regards to the facts

I will not give you advise on this - decide for yourself

Please chill. Apparently the only thing I got wrong was that their are places other than Cycle Spectrum that carry your bikes. I have looked for info to the contrary, including that last time I checked the website link to the Motobecane "dealer list" only opened up as an email link to BD.

Early in this exchange I asked you to clarify. I said if you did so I would "stand corrected." Instead you posted twice more without actually answering my question (which is whether anyone other than BD-CS sold your bikes). That didn't help. And I said a lot more above than the one sentence you are blasting me over, but I guess that makes you feel powerful. Mountain... meet ... Molehill.

Happy to know you have a dealer network. Have a nice day.

Why do people that seem to have no interest in buying or owning a BD bike come to this forum and start trying to cause trouble??? I think that the folder is clearly labled. jt are you some sort of ambassador of goodwill that you think that you have to come here and find all the things that you think are wrong with BD?

And about my 22 posts in three months, what does that have to do with anything? Does that make me less qualified to state my opinion? You seem to think that the number of posts people have determines their worthyness to be listened to. I guess I should spend more time posting and less time with my wife and kid.

It's quality not quantity.


Long live BD, and I don't even own one.......yet.

Actually, I don't think anything's wrong with BD. That's what's ironic. As noted above, I've helped a friend by from them (and at my recommendation because of the pricing). I think that folks should be allowed to participate in a discussion without toeing any particular line.

My point about your posts is that you threw an ad hominem about what I "always" do when you are a recent entrant to the forums and I don't even know that you and I have ever crossed paths. It's like someone walking into a room and telling you about what you "always" do. The accusation was both inaccurate and unfair, and given that I don't even know if you and I have ever overlapped in a thread before, I called that fact out.

Cheers.

Actually, I don't think anything's wrong with BD. That's what's ironic. As noted above, I've helped a friend by from them (and at my recommendation because of the pricing). I think that folks should be allowed to participate in a discussion without toeing any particular line.

My point about your posts is that you threw an ad hominem about what I "always" do when you are a recent entrant to the forums and I don't even know that you and I have ever crossed paths. It's like someone walking into a room and telling you about what you "always" do. The accusation was both inaccurate and unfair, and given that I don't even know if you and I have ever overlapped in a thread before, I called that fact out.

Cheers.

jt, could you pretty please get Greggggg to release the limit on the # of smileys you can po@st in one Po@$t?:)

[insert pages full of these fellas: :mad2: here]

HTH HTH &etc

1201, sometimes kids, pets, and RBR participants need to be subjected to limits. It makes them happier in the long run. Trust me! :)

I jumped on jtolleson in this thread . . . and I am a very happy BD customer (as can be found in this folder). I also think very much of Mike as when I was interested he went above what was expected in how he answered questions in PMs . . . time after time.

That said, one thing that has me a bit concerned is that JT said that there was facutal evidence of BD setting up accounts and making 'review posts' (coming from same IP). Mike clearly had issues with things JT said, but did not say this was false. I hope it is. It would not change how happy I am with my bike (I think this bike is a better deal every day). I would not stop me from recommending them. It would bother me a good deal though.

FWIW, JT PM'd me and we discussed a number of topics. They (sorry - you are referred to as MR in this thread but your avitar made me think you were a girl . . . so i will stay neutral) explained their issues but that they are really not a BD hater (as far as their products).

You've posted on one of my threads before..... you'd better check yo self before you wreckidty wreckidty yo self.

Well, looky there! http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=75229

That makes us nearly cousins! You started a thread once and I asked you a question once... how could I possibly have forgotten (ahem). This explains your accusation of my "always" behavior perfectly! :rolleyes:

I jumped on jtolleson in this thread . . . and I am a very happy BD customer (as can be found in this folder). I also think very much of Mike as when I was interested he went above what was expected in how he answered questions in PMs . . . time after time.

That said, one thing that has me a bit concerned is that JT said that there was facutal evidence of BD setting up accounts and making 'review posts' (coming from same IP). Mike clearly had issues with things JT said, but did not say this was false. I hope it is. It would not change how happy I am with my bike (I think this bike is a better deal every day). I would not stop me from recommending them. It would bother me a good deal though.

FWIW, JT PM'd me and we discussed a number of topics. They (sorry - you are referred to as MR in this thread but your avitar made me think you were a girl . . . so i will stay neutral) explained their issues but that they are really not a BD hater (as far as their products).

Greg

Hi

Thanks for your continued support.

it is true some of my employees were playing Silence Dogood on this forum; that was before I even knew the forum existed

Fact is: I had no idea about forums in general

But I am partly responsible. Whenever I go into the office I bring up things I am interested in other than bikes. Like – 'hey do you know who invented swim fens?' 'Or how do you think first contact will affect social and religious attitudes?' 'Or do you know the only person that signed all three documents that created the USA?' {as you may guess, my two big outside interests are Franklin and Star Trek }

So when I challenged my employees on the postings on here, I got the Silence Dogood story I had told them back in my face. We discussed for best part of a day that the idea of women being on the same footing as men is no way comparable to bike manufacturing details.

Funny thing is; these forums carry over. No one from my organization ever posted on bikeforums.net – but lots of people thought they did. It is a funny new world here on the net.

Anyway, thanks again Greg, and if there is ever anything I can do for you, just let me know.

mike

I think BD.com probably sells a lot of bikes to people new to biking. Take my example - I have to believe it has been replicated many times before and after me. I am a runner and wanted to get into biking. I am very internet savvy. Computer networking pays my bills. I have bought everything from aftershave to cars and boats on the internet. So . . . what is the first thing I do when I think about getting a bike? Go to LBS? Nope. I go to the internet. At a minimum I wanted to know as much as I could when I went to the LBS so as to be on the level playing field with salesmen. I have no real history in cycling or any real loyalty to a LBS. This makes me a perfect person to buy on-line. I have an arrogance that equiped with the right research I can make a choice like buying a bike I have never touched. That might be dumb, I do not know.

Someone like me is going to be new to a site like this, as I did not really bike. I see how heated these threads get . . . and I honestly think I got a killer deal. I also think most people's view of LBS' on this site are so over-inflated (just as you might think BD.com reviews are). In a few days of on-line research I knew more about every bike I looked at in a LBS than the salesmen did. They spent about as much time fitting me as I did typing this single line.

I know that one of the individuals that took part in that "heated discussion" works in a LBS and has for many years. He's probably in his mid 50's. It's quite possible that he's sensitive about the topic because it's his job. I can understand that. I'm not sure though, that attacking other businesses is the way to maintain business.

The (insert retail business type here) vs Internet debate rages in every market. It's nice to have a LBS when you need something NOW and it's also nice to have some relationship with those at the shop. The problem is that just because somebody has their shingle out and has a pile of their own (or perhaps someone else's) money tied up in it doesn't mean I'm required to shop there. There has to be a reason for their existence as in large inventory, quick and reliable service, low prices, extra things like fitting etc.....SOMETHING! If you don't get any of those, I have no sympathy and suggest you take your changes on the web. Them telling me they can "order it" anymore just doesn't cut it. Hey, I can order it at home, not have to drive down there and pay less for it.

LBS's are definitely not created equal. Where you live, they type of store they are, what their own interests are etc make for very different stores.

I don't have issues with Bikes Direct by anymeans. However, an absolute beginner buying a bike off the web with no idea of fit, assembly, etc is not a good proposition. Hopefully, they will have the benefit of a local shop that can help them get on their way. There's a lot to learn at the front end and not getting help there can easily cause someone to just stop riding.

There are many different types of consumers and ultimately, the market will adjust accordingly.

it is true some of my employees were playing Silence Dogood


Is your continued use of this obscure Ben Franklin pseudonym a way to distance yourself from the term "shill"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services who pretends no association to the seller and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer.

I think that's a more apt description of their actions than Silence Dogood. After all, Ben was just giving advise...not trying to get people to buy stuff.
And we're all using pseudonyms anyway...so we're all doing Silence Dogood.

1201, sometimes kids, pets, and RBR participants need to be subjected to limits. It makes them happier in the long run. Trust me! :)

I want satisfaction now though damit!

////I'll let you borrow my hamster

That's probably NOT c()d3...I thinksa.

Now THAT is an awesome pic.

I want satisfaction now though damit!

////I'll let you borrow my hamster

That's probably NOT c()d3...I thinksa.
I say RBR should allow a total of 1201 smilies in each post!:D

The pedals were fine, but I wanted to go lighter so I got Performance Titanium/magnesium petals again for a good deal on ebay.

Are those pedals rated for your weight? I don't think I've ever seen a 'super light' pedal rated for more than a 170 lbs. rider. I just can't imagine how bad it would be to be out of the saddle sprinting and have one snap. OK, I can imagine it- one very bad thing followed by a bad fall :eek: