View Full Version : philosophy advice...offensive or defensive??


Andy C
12-12-2006, 09:57 AM
I've got a basically "non-cycling" buddy who has just started commuting to work. He's stuck with it now long enough that I am metaphorically raising my eyebrows...he may make it a habit.

I'd like to empart some advice to him...a number of years ago I read of a cycling advocate who espoused a cycling style that was on the offense. He suggested a style by which the rider is smart but assertive in sharing the road with cars (as opposed to being defensive and riding in the gutter or sidewalk). Any idea who that would be? Are there any books out there that you'd recommend??

Thanks!!

Howzitbroke
12-12-2006, 10:14 AM
I don't know of any books specifically but I can impart some of my limited wisdom. It is great to think in terms of offense/defense and good to use both. I ride defensively hug the right shoulder depending on debris and hazards, if the right edge of the road is clear then I ride there. If it is full of holes, grates, gravel whatever then I will take some of the lane and do it early and with a signal so that I don't surprise any driver. When going through an intersection take the proper lane, again with a signal, same with a left turn (offensive). The speed of the traffic will dictate whehter I ride in the center or on the right of that lane. If I can keep up I take the entire lane like a motorbike, if the traffic is faster I squeeze right to prevent being run over. When turning right I like to get into the center of the approaching lane if possible so I can apex late and maintain speed onto the next road while hugging the right of the new lane. There really is no hard and fast rules for me, I tend to adjust to conditions based upon my experience. Paying attention to as much as you can is key. Roadsurface, what is going on with the traffic ahead, and behind, and I just expect people to drive squirrelly and like they don't see me.

Hollywood
12-12-2006, 10:21 AM
google or search RBR for 'Vehicular Cycling'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling

JCavilia
12-12-2006, 10:35 AM
is probably who you're thinking of. His "Effective Cycling" is considered by many to be the bible for this approach.
http://www.johnforester.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Effective-Cycling-6th-John-Forester/dp/0262560704/sr=1-3/qid=1165951869/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/104-2728815-2703120?ie=UTF8&s=books

wooglin
12-12-2006, 11:19 AM
is probably who you're thinking of. His "Effective Cycling" is considered by many to be the bible for this approach.
http://www.johnforester.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Effective-Cycling-6th-John-Forester/dp/0262560704/sr=1-3/qid=1165951869/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/104-2728815-2703120?ie=UTF8&s=books
Yup. And the League of American Bicyclists (formerly Wheelmen) still offers courses in effective cycling.

http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/education/index.php

MB1
12-12-2006, 11:23 AM
[QUOTE=JCavilia]....... His "Effective Cycling" is considered by many to be the bible for this approach...........QUOTE]

I think his advice is generally the best although no writer can really advocate running lights without liability issues and he doesn't.

Good stuff.

bigbill
12-12-2006, 11:32 AM
I wouldn't call my method offensive, just aggressive. I assume that the driver doesn't see me, so I make myself seen or have an exit route planned if the car does something unexpected. I don't like riding up against the gutter, I prefer the right wheel track of the right lane but will often ride in the left lane in the traffic heavy afternoon commute. State law allows riding to the far left on divided roadways. Usually the left lane is used to set myself up for a left turn but I might be in it for several blocks. I will roll up at an intersection to let a car turn right, it might build driver karma.

Bottom line, I try to ride in a predictable manner, IMHO indecisive riders get hit or pushed into the curb, and it is "Better to be Fred than dead". Be visable, lights are great in the dark, but don't forget about the daylight commute, lots of hiviz yellow and orange. My favorite item is my jogger belt that I wrap around my rack bag.

PdxMark
12-12-2006, 12:08 PM
I wouldn't call my method offensive, just aggressive.

It might just be semantics, but I'd say that I tend to ride assertively or confidently, with courtesy, rather than aggressively. In terms of cars, I think of aggresive road behavior as a tail-gating, lane-switching speeding car...

Henry Chinaski
12-12-2006, 01:10 PM
Yep, assertive.

I get kind of sketched out when friends/coworkers, etc., take up cycling, especially urban commuting. They all seem to get hurt within a matter of weeks or months.

bigbill
12-12-2006, 01:32 PM
Yep, assertive.

I get kind of sketched out when friends/coworkers, etc., take up cycling, especially urban commuting. They all seem to get hurt within a matter of weeks or months.


I see the same thing. Someone sees me and others commuting to work and they go out and buy a bike. I will say that most of them have made a trip to the LBS and bought the right bike for the commute. Maybe the difference is that I was a Norba and USCF racer before I was a commuter. Most of situations that made them crash could be avoided by an experienced rider (hooking a tire in a groove, dropping off the edge of the MUT and trying to swerve back on, hitting a raised edge at a shallow angle, etc). One guy hit the center pole on the MUT, he had a $19.95 headlight that projected light about ten feet. Nothing to do with experience, I would have hit it as well except for my good headlight. Must have just put that pole there....

Pablo
12-12-2006, 01:57 PM
Personally, I don't like the offesive/defensive dichotomy. Offensive makes it sound like you're a loose canon and defensive makes it sound like you're timid.

The key is to ride intelligently, balancing the endless countervailing factors involved to minimize risk. In my opinion, there are too many factors that vary each day on each stretch of road and depend on each rider.

If there are any cardinal rules, I think they are: 1) assume that cars never see you, and 2) know that justified or not, you will lose any encounter with a car.

Art853
12-12-2006, 02:43 PM
See this link

http://bicyclesafe.com/

Cervelo-er
12-12-2006, 11:14 PM
If there are any cardinal rules, I think they are: 1) assume that cars never see you, and 2) know that justified or not, you will lose any encounter with a car.

I'd say that is a pretty good philosophy. It also is something that unfortunately only comes with experience. When I was younger (teens) I rode a ton around downtown/traffic areas much more messenger style and learned to "feel" cars coming from behind, look through peoples windows at their eyes, notice reflections in side mirrors, watch for doors opening, look at tires starting to turn, etc. I'd call all of that "defensive" riding wherein you are looking to react to others actions...defending yourself from them. Of course, at that time I was more apt to weave in and out of traffic for the fun of it...and kick cars if they cut me off...which would probably be deemed "aggressive" and/or stupid...but hey, I was 15.

These days I would say I combine all those "defensive" second-nature reactions with purposely aggressive riding in certain situations. I'll sprint to get wide of a bus and take a lane to make sure they see me...while being consistent and watching the drivers eyes and waving as I go bye...especially when riding a bus route where I may catch/pass the same bus multiple times. I'll take lanes when riding at or just under the speed limit...25-35 mph when I'm not holding up traffic. I'll "run a light", stop sign, etc. and/or leave the light early to avoid a sticky situation with a line of cars, no shoulder, etc.

All in all, it's something you have to develop over years of riding...and even then, crazy isht happens and you have to have the instincts take over to keep you safe.

Until then, I'd tell anyone to:

1.) Be visible and think like the person in the car; stay out of blind spots, look at mirrors (if you can see them, they can see you).

2.) When in doubt, slow down and yield to the cars.

3.) Get VERY comfortable with your bike/skills. Riding in traffic is no place to find out you can't clip out quickly, brake hard, turn quickly, jump a pothole, or hold your line. Practice.

That's my $0.03 :thumbsup:

DrRoebuck
12-13-2006, 12:03 AM
I have "Effective Cycling" and it's a pretty good book. Lots of good information and ideas.

I especially like the McGyver sections, where you can make a waterproof poncho out of three Snickers wrappers, a shoelace and a piece of Juicy Fruit.

He's a bit full of himself, however, and that gets old as you're reading.

Though I'd always ridden pretty much in the style he evangelizes, I've adopted even more of his approach the more I ride.

But with a lot more flexibility than he would like. For instance, I always take the lane if there isn't ample room for both me and a car, whether it's by the curb or along parked cars. Except ... I will gutter-leech if I've filtered lanes to get to the front of the line. This is out of courtesy to the drivers I've just passed, as it would be shi**y of me to sneak in front of them then slow them down. But even that "rule" is not set in stone: on bad driver days, f**k 'em, every man for himself.

Basically, it's unwise to use something like "Effective Cycling" as anything more than a guide, while remaining alert to changing situations and open to improvisation. I pass through the same stretch of Wilshire Blvd. (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=20461) at least once a day. Sometimes by car, sometimes by bike, and I never, ever see the same thing twice. Not on the left from San Vicente to the VA, not as I pass the freeway on/off-ramps, not at Wilshire and Westwood. Never.