I've owned a Corrida CT 2.2 for several years. It's my town bike/beater and while it's served admirably it's a size too small and I'd like something with drop bars. The X-Ray Sport is on sale now for $499 and it looks like it will fill the bill. I'm unsure of size, though. I'm 5'6" and I currently ride a 52cm Gunnar Sport as my road bike. The Gunnar has a 53cm theoretical top tube and a 49cm seat tube(but semi-compact geometry). To get the bars up to saddle height, which is 36 inches in my case, the LBS left the steer tube pretty long and placed 9 spacers under the stem. Looks a bit unconventional but it's a good fit. I'm debating size on the X-Ray Sport. While the 51cm matches up with the Gunnar's measurements pretty closely, I'm concerned with being able to get the bars up to alleviate my hand numbness from CTS. I emailed Ibex and I know that the bikes ship with 4 spacers, which is 4cm. If I get the bars up with a riser stem, I think the 51 will end up feeling cramped, because as the bars get higher they get closer, right? Any owners care to share their setup?

Mike

Mike,

You asked for input from IBEX X-Ray owners and I've been waiting for some to chime in. But, since 5-days have passed with no replies I thought I would go a head and post. We put 40mm of headset spacers on most of our roadbikes, including the X-ray Sport. I consider that to be about the maximum practical amount. When you mention the LBS leaving a steerer tube long enough for "9 spacers" I'd have to assume those are 5mm spacers for a total of 45mm added height. Spacers are available in many different heights, so my take on this is anything but sure. Nevertheless, I'd stick to about 40mm (45mm is OK) and handle any additional handlebar height needed with rise on the stem. For example, the 51cm X-Ray Sport comes with a 7° x 90mm stem that is designed to be flippable. It will come installed at a negative angle, but can be flipped over to positive and add another inch or so to the handlebar height. This really does not have much effect on the reach to the bars, but you could certainly use a longer stem if you find yourself feeling cramped in the cockpit.

Regards,
Jack A.
IBEX Bicycles

Jack---

Because the Gunnar is a semi-compact design, I show a lot of seatpost and a lot of steer tube. My spacers are 1cm each, so I have 9cm of spacers between the headset and stem. It sounds weird but the bike is a good fit(and this is my first road bike with non-traditional geometry). Hand numbness is a big problem so I had to get the bars up. My Corrida is a 50cm CT 2.2, and I had to buy a really steep riser stem to get the bars up. I was able to get pretty comfortable with the adjustable stem it shipped with, but the stem weighed a ton so I swapped.
The picture of the Sport shows a considerable drop from seat to bar---one that appears would be difficult to compensate for with simply flipping the stem. I need more information before I decide on a size. Mainly, I would need to know where, if the saddle height were set at 36 inches, the bar height would be on either the 51 or 54. Either would be OK standover height wise, and I think if I went with the 54 and put a short riser stem on it the longer TT would be negated. I'm more concerned with putting a riser stem on the 51 and ending up cramped, because as the bars go higher they get closer.
The bikes on your website all show steep drops from seat to bars. I know that is the fashion, but there are lots of bikes sitting in garages because riding them made people's hands go numb. I would be more than happy to buy a bike with an uncut steer tube, and cut it myself( or have it cut) once I dialed in the fit. It's much easier and cheaper to experiment with spacers than it is to experiment with stems.

Jack---

Because the Gunnar is a semi-compact design, I show a lot of seatpost and a lot of steer tube. My spacers are 1cm each, so I have 9cm of spacers between the headset and stem. It sounds weird but the bike is a good fit(and this is my first road bike with non-traditional geometry). Hand numbness is a big problem so I had to get the bars up. My Corrida is a 50cm CT 2.2, and I had to buy a really steep riser stem to get the bars up. I was able to get pretty comfortable with the adjustable stem it shipped with, but the stem weighed a ton so I swapped.
The picture of the Sport shows a considerable drop from seat to bar---one that appears would be difficult to compensate for with simply flipping the stem. I need more information before I decide on a size. Mainly, I would need to know where, if the saddle height were set at 36 inches, the bar height would be on either the 51 or 54. Either would be OK standover height wise, and I think if I went with the 54 and put a short riser stem on it the longer TT would be negated. I'm more concerned with putting a riser stem on the 51 and ending up cramped, because as the bars go higher they get closer.
The bikes on your website all show steep drops from seat to bars. I know that is the fashion, but there are lots of bikes sitting in garages because riding them made people's hands go numb. I would be more than happy to buy a bike with an uncut steer tube, and cut it myself( or have it cut) once I dialed in the fit. It's much easier and cheaper to experiment with spacers than it is to experiment with stems.
When we start getting into specifics that are really of concern only to you, questions should be directed to us by email at info@ibexbikes.com. But I'll give you the quick & dirty:

90mm of spacers is too much. It allows for too much flex in the steerer tube... and on forks with a carbon steeerer tube it could create enough leverage on the steerer tube to risk breaking it (and doing so at perhaps a rather inconvenient moment that puts the rider's life in jeopardy).

We don't ship bikes with uncut steerers. This is because our bikes are fully built in our factory in Taiwan and, frankly, to avoid being held liable for a dangerous situation as described above.

Saddle height is dictated by your leg length relative to the pedals, not the ground. If you have selected the proper frame size, you should not find too much difference between saddle height and handlebar height, especially if you flip the stem to a positive angle as I discussed in my previous post.

Photos are not necessarily indicative of the actual saddle height setting for riders in the recommended fit range for the bike shown. Photographers usually set the saddle height based on the seatpost logo. They generally set them for aesthetics and to be sure the logo is not hidden by inserting the seatpost farther into the frame.

If you are going to a steeper stem you can compensate for that angle by going to a longer stem so that it is not necessary for the handlebar to be too close to the rider.

Also, I do not quite understand you're comments on the Corrida CT. We never made that model in 50cm size and that model has from the very beginning always been spec'd with an adjustable angle stem that would eliminate the need to swap the stem to get a higher angle. One need only change the angle on the stock adjustable stem.

Jack

I find this thread kinda of interesting because I seem to have the same problem that the OP is having. I'm not very good at reading geometry charts (or maybe to lazy to try) when it comes to determining how much bar drop there will be with a given set up.

I would love to see a Saddle to center of BB dimension added that would correspond to an level saddle to bar height with a 0 degree stem and X amount of spacers. If that makes sense. However I know that all saddles are not the same so maybe it would need just a length above the BB centerline to achieve even saddle to bar height for a 0 degree stem and X amount of spacers.

From there it would be a little more straight forward to determine what I would need to achieve a desired bar drop.

Is there currently enough info in a standard geo chart to determine this?

...I would love to see a Saddle to center of BB dimension added that would correspond to an level saddle to bar height with a 0 degree stem and X amount of spacers.... From there it would be a little more straight forward to determine what I would need to achieve a desired bar drop.

Is there currently enough info in a standard geo chart to determine this?
Not a bad idea, but I think you'd want it from the pedal at bottom-dead-center so that it relates to leg-length (foot and ankle position would tend to compensate for required amount of knee-bend). Also, with the angle of the steerer and head-tube (H/T), a 0° stem would not be dead on. Even the 7° stem installed at a negative angle that comes stock on the X-Ray Sport doesn't quite put the stem parallel to the ground. It still nets out to a slight rise, and if the stem is flipped it brings the H/B up another inch or so.

There is not enough info on a standard geometry chart to determine this, and calculating it will only get you close. There is no substitution for putting a tape-measure to it for accuracy. But, since we can't do that at this point I'll give you the calculation the best I can (we're sold-out of all but the 51cm in the X-Ray Sport and even if in-stock it would mean building out one in each size and then repacking for shipping, which I am not prepared to do... especially since if we did that for all sizes in all models we'd be repacking about 150 bikes!)

X-Ray Sport in 54cm: bar height above the H/T is about 5mm of headset cover on the integrated IS-2 plus 40mm of spacers plus about 30mm for stem and rise to top of handlebar (H/B), making it a total of 75mm above H/T, or about 3". Seat-tube (S/T) length is 540mm (54cm), plus crankarm length of 170mm. On the 54cm the top of the S/T is about 60mm below being level with the top of H/T. Therefore, if you add the crank, S/T, the 60mm top-tube (T/T) drop and the height of the H/B above H/T you'd end up with a total leg reach from the saddle being level with H/B you'd get 845mm or 33.25" leg length to properly ride this bike with the saddle even with bars with the stem left as installed at a negative angle. Again, add another inch to that if you flip the stem. I won't go through the whole calculation, but on a 51cm it would come out to about 32.75" (shorter S/T, but more drop to the T/T from H/T height to top of S/T).

Again, this is just a loose translation, especially because of the knee-bend versus ankle/foot position, but it should give you a fair idea of what's going on with this. I would venture to say the OP is correct in stating that the 51cm that he has 90mm of spacers on is just too small a frame. However, it's not as big a difference as that to level from the 51cm to 54cm. So, with no offense intended, I've got to say that I think the OP's idea of what is comfortable as far as H/B height is beyond the usual set-up recommended for most people and best efficiency.

Regards,
Jack

Not a bad idea, but I think you'd want it from the pedal at bottom-dead-center so that it relates to leg-length (foot and ankle position would tend to compensate for required amount of knee-bend). Also, with the angle of the head-tube (H/T) a 0° stem would not be dead on. Even the 7° stem installed at a negative angle that comes stock on the X-Ray Sport doesn't quite put the stem parallel to the ground. It still nets out to a slight rise, and if the stem is flipped it brings the H/B up another inch or so.

There is not enough info on a standard geometry chart to determine this, and calculating it will only get you close. There is no substitution for putting a tape-measure to it for accuracy. But, since we can't do that at this point I'll give you the calculation the best I can (we're sold -out of all but the 51cm in the X-Ray Sport and even if in-stock it would mean building out one in each size and then repacking for shipping, which I am not prepared to do... especially since if we did that for all sizes in all models we'd be repacking about 150 bikes!)

X-Ray Sport in 54cm: bar height above the H/T is about 5mm of headset cover on the integrated IS-2 plus 40mm of spacers plus about 30mm for stem and rise to top of handlebar (H/B), making it a total of 75mm above H/T, or about 3". Seat-tube (S/T) length is 540mm (54cm), plus crankarm length of 170mm. On the 54cm the top of the S/T is about 60mm below being level with the top of H/T. Therefore, if you add the crank, S/T, the 60mm top-tube (T/T) drop and the height of the H/B above H/T you'd end up with a total leg reach from the saddle being level with H/B you'd get 845mm or 33.25" leg length to properly ride this bike with the saddle even with bars when the stem left as installed at a negative angle. Again, add another inch to that if you flip the stem. I won't go through the whole calculation, but on a 51cm it would come out to about 32.75" (shorter S/T, but more drop to the T/T from H/T height to top of S/T).

Again, this is just a loose translation, especially because of the knee-bend versus ankle/foot position, but it should give you a fair idea of what's going on with this. I would venture to say the OP is correct in stating that the 51cm that he has 90mm of spacers on is just too small a frame. However, it's not as big a difference as that to level from the 51cm to 54cm. So, with no offense intended, I've got to say that I think the OP's idea of what is comfortable as far as H/B height is beyond the usual set-up recommended for most people and best efficiency.

Regards,
Jack


Your post is a pretty good example of why some information like this would prove very helpful. Especially for internet sellers where you can't readily get to it with a tape measure. On a perfectly level TT bike it is fairly easy to estimate this information based on stand over height, and guessing at head tube extension and seat tube extension. On a sloping frame it proves very difficult for us common folk.


Of course it also points to you second response where you suggest that a direct email or phone call would be the way to go.

Jack--

I appreciate your input, but my current 52cm bike is not too small. Standover height is spot on(my crotch touches the TT), and I have a slight bend in my elbow when on the hoods. On a larger Gunnar(or other bike for that matter) I would either be too stretched out OR I would raise my voice at stoplights. It was an aesthetic choice to use a horizontal stem instead of a riser. Would you say the bike was too small if I used 40-50mm of spacers and a 105 degree riser stem to accomplish the same reach?
Motobecane is offering a bike with semi-compact(or even compact) geometry, and offers it with an adjustable stem to get the bars to whatever height is comfortable for the rider. I read that you think my fit/handlebar height requirements are outside the norm. You may want to take that up with Waterford/Vanilla/Rivendell/Velo Orange/Herse/Singer/Raleigh/Specialized---or even the almighty TREK or any of the makers offering comfortable road bikes. In my opinion, anyone who is not a flyweight racer but runs bars 3-4 inches below saddle height is experiencing unnecessary discomfort. Why are so many people on recumbents? Why are there SO many gloves and gimmicks(carbon bars, gel bar tape, Aztec padded wrap, etc) offered to combat hand numbness? Because people ride with their bars too low---because the industry is following the racer aesthetic.
When I bought my Corrida CT, I could have sworn it was listed as a 50cm. Perhaps it's a 51 but that's neither here nor there. I wrote that I WAS able to get comfortable with the adjustable stem you specced, but that it weighed a ton so I swapped it for a tall riser stem.

Jack--

I appreciate your input, but my current 52cm bike is not too small. Standover height is spot on(my crotch touches the TT), and I have a slight bend in my elbow when on the hoods. On a larger Gunnar(or other bike for that matter) I would either be too stretched out OR I would raise my voice at stoplights. It was an aesthetic choice to use a horizontal stem instead of a riser. Would you say the bike was too small if I used 40-50mm of spacers and a 105 degree riser stem to accomplish the same reach?
Motobecane is offering a bike with semi-compact(or even compact) geometry, and offers it with an adjustable stem to get the bars to whatever height is comfortable for the rider. I read that you think my fit/handlebar height requirements are outside the norm. You may want to take that up with Waterford/Vanilla/Rivendell/Velo Orange/Herse/Singer/Raleigh/Specialized---or even the almighty TREK or any of the makers offering comfortable road bikes. In my opinion, anyone who is not a flyweight racer but runs bars 3-4 inches below saddle height is experiencing unnecessary discomfort. Why are so many people on recumbents? Why are there SO many gloves and gimmicks(carbon bars, gel bar tape, Aztec padded wrap, etc) offered to combat hand numbness? Because people ride with their bars too low---because the industry is following the racer aesthetic.
When I bought my Corrida CT, I could have sworn it was listed as a 50cm. Perhaps it's a 51 but that's neither here nor there. I wrote that I WAS able to get comfortable with the adjustable stem you specced, but that it weighed a ton so I swapped it for a tall riser stem.
Maybe I misunderstood. I thought you were the one who said your bike was too small. I did not mean to offend you, but yes, I'm sorry, if you have to put 90mm of spacers on a bike something is wrong. It is either A) too small... or B) you're shooting for something the bike is not intended to do... or C) you're taking what I would consider the wrong approach to tailoring the fit to your liking. On that last possibility (probability?), take, for example, your comment about a 105° stem. In the terms we use, a 90° stem (if such a thing existed) would be straight up from the steerer, but some companies may say 90° for what we'd consider a 0° angle (at right angles to the steerer). So I guess a 105° "riser" would be a 15° "rise" stem (15° up from 90° would be 105°... 15° up from 0° is 15°... same thing, different name). That's not so bad. I'm not sure it would have quite the same net effect as the extra 50mm of spacers (over our stock 40mm for your 90mm total), but it would certainly be preferable to having all that leverage focused on a steerer tube that is that much longer. The two approaches (longer steerer versus higher rise stem) are not equal. Just think in terms of a fishing rod or some other pole with some give to it. If you grab it at the tip and bend, it's going to flex considerably. Yet if you gab it halfway down and bend with the same force you won't get as much reaction... and it does not matter at what angle you grab it. If you want to try this with some compensation for angle, grab the tip (representing the steerer tube) with your elbow even with it or below it. Still pretty easy to bend, right. Now grab lower down, but put your elbow way above where you're grabbing (representing a higher rise stem angle). Still not much flex there, I bet. So, all I'm saying is the higher angle stem is much the better idea... that's why they the make 'em. On top of the that issue, let's say you find a fork with a hefty enough steel steerer tube to handle the extra force of the extended leverage. Adding an extra 2" of steerer tube, plus the extra spacers, adds a heck-of-a-lot more weight to the bike than any possible weight difference I could imagine between different angles of rise in a decent quality stem.

Speaking of weight, I also don't quite get the point you're making about how other brands put adjustable stems on some of their road bikes, yet on the one series of models we make that we do put adjustable stems on you took it off because it was too heavy. The Corridas are flat-bar road bikes and not expected to appeal to a particularly weight sensitive crowd. I suppose if we made a drop-bar road model that was targeted as a "comfort" road bike it might be OK there, too. However, we don't make a bike of that type... and other models in our road bike line-up are quite another story. If we put adjustable stems on those you'd take them off because they're too heavy for you just as you did with the one on the Corrida. So would everyone else. BTW, it's pretty widely accepted that Giant's original concept of the "compact" frame was initiated as a way to fit a wider range of rider size with fewer frame sizes. On those it was almost mandatory to have an adjustable stem because they we trying to fit such a wide range of riders with each frame size.

Anyway, maybe it's time I let you get back to your original mission here of seeking input from X-Ray owners. I've given it to you by the book. Maybe some riders out there are taking other more unorthodox approaches that will suit you better. It's also all turning into such a moot point as we only have one X-Ray Sport left, now... and I've had a couple of emails that proably mean it will be gone in a few days. It's a 51cm and there will be no more for 2007. There probably will be no more, period. We're seriously considering replacing the Sport for 2008.

Adiós!
JA

I've owned a Corrida CT 2.2 for several years. It's my town bike/beater and while it's served admirably it's a size too small and I'd like something with drop bars. The X-Ray Sport is on sale now for $499 and it looks like it will fill the bill. I'm unsure of size, though. I'm 5'6" and I currently ride a 52cm Gunnar Sport as my road bike. The Gunnar has a 53cm theoretical top tube and a 49cm seat tube(but semi-compact geometry). To get the bars up to saddle height, which is 36 inches in my case, the LBS left the steer tube pretty long and placed 9 spacers under the stem. Looks a bit unconventional but it's a good fit. I'm debating size on the X-Ray Sport. While the 51cm matches up with the Gunnar's measurements pretty closely, I'm concerned with being able to get the bars up to alleviate my hand numbness from CTS. I emailed Ibex and I know that the bikes ship with 4 spacers, which is 4cm. If I get the bars up with a riser stem, I think the 51 will end up feeling cramped, because as the bars get higher they get closer, right? Any owners care to share their setup?

Mike

Sounds like you are the perfect candidate for a custom or a touring frame. From what I can tell, the X-Ray has a basic geometry that is pretty universal among production CX bikes. While a CX bike can make a wonderful all purpose ride you need to remember that they are race bikes at heart.

You may have much better luck getting the bar drop you are looking for with a touring frame. The handling will be fine for most riding. They are a little harder to find new from internet sellers as just a frame set but if you are patient you could find one used at a great price.

Since with a touring frame you have the option of running fat tires don't let frame material drive you choice.

I will add that if you are concerned with weight of an adjustable stem neither a CX or Touring frame maybe right for you. They are not general designed and spec'ed around weight.

I don't own a X-ray but this thread caught my eye because I'm going thru the same issues with my Redline. at first I thought I would get another CX frame but have since decided to go with a Straight bar bike or a touring frame.

Salsa offers both 90 degree and 105 degree stems:

http://www.salsacycles.com/stems.html

Perhaps I'm taking a different approach to fit, because I find riser stems to look a bit odd. Grew up with quill stems and I think a bike looks better when the the stem and seat are at the same angle.

I stripped the Kalloy stem off my Corrida because it was unnecessarily heavy. I'm not a weight weenie but the thing weighed a pound or more.