View Full Version : Frame geometry question - smaller bike
ox_rider 02-16-2007, 10:57 AM What kind of ride would this geometry produce?
* Seat tube: 49.26cm c-c
* Top tube: 50.94cm c-c
* Theo TT: 51 cm c-c
* Head angle: 71.5 degrees
* Seat angle: 75.0 degrees
* BB drop: 7.0cm
* Chainstay: 41.0cm
* Fork rake: 50mm
* Front center: 575.4mm
* Wheelbase: 975.1 mm
* Head tube length: 105
I know there will be some toe overlap, but for the little guy, it was ever thus. Thanks.
FatTireFred 02-16-2007, 11:23 AM aside from the fact that it's very small, it looks fairly normal for a small frame
"what kind of ride?" is fairly vague- other factors will play into the feel of the bike
ox_rider 02-16-2007, 11:34 AM will it be stable at speed and descending?
FatTireFred 02-16-2007, 12:04 PM will it be stable at speed and descending?
you can plug your numbers into bikecad and see... my guess is yes, but usually it takes something pretty whack to mess up the ride badly
"will it be stable at speed and descending?" i would say yes the 71.5 degrees head tube would tend to slow down steering. the builder probably did this to reduce toe overlap.
ox_rider 02-16-2007, 01:46 PM by slow it down, what do you mean? could i race on this bike, crits, for instance?
"by slow it down, what do you mean? could i race on this bike, crits, for instance?" i mean less twichey, you could ride it without your hands on the handlebars at slow speeds. It won't be a responsive as you would like. criteriums bikes tend to have steeper head tube angles. Do a general search on google "criterium bike geometry". For example from the sheldon brown site
"The tight packs of a criterium put a particular premium on maneuverability. This has led to bicycles with more nearly vertical head and seat tube angles, and shorter wheelbases.
It is important to realize that this "criterium geometry" doesn't make a bike any faster, just more maneuverable. Another way to say "more maneuverable" is "twitchy." This sort of bike is somewhat unstable, and requires more attention to steering. If you're tired at the end of a long ride, this can lead to problems.The other undesirable side effect of "criterium geometry" is a harsh ride. The more upright angles reduce the "suspension" effect of the fork, and the shorter chain stays put the rear wheel closer under the saddle, which increases the jolting to your rear end. "
So could you race it? sure .... I had a bike that had a steeper than normal 71.5-72 angles for this size, it would oscillate when i took my hands off the bars.
boneman 02-17-2007, 07:00 AM In the sizes you mention, shallow head and steep seat angles are to adjust for the shorter torso, both resulting in a shorter top tube and for the latter angle, the shorter femur to maintain the kop concept. To adjust for the shallow head tube and maintain the same steering quickness and straight line stability, the rake is increased. Go search about trail.
In answer to your original post, the WB and top tube are both a tad short. If you like it quick and your fore/aft balance skewed forwards, that's what you'll have. I own about 12 bikes, all 49-51 ctc. My C40 which is a 51 ctt but about 49.4 ctc has a 52.7. As for crits, yes, it would work fine. I was a cat II in the 70's and rode a Gios Torino which is about 49-49.5 ctc and has a 52.5 tt, st angle of 75, ht angle of 71 and fork rake of 50mm. Raced in crits and road and was fine.
"by slow it down, what do you mean? could i race on this bike, crits, for instance?" i mean less twichey, you could ride it without your hands on the handlebars at slow speeds. It won't be a responsive as you would like. criteriums bikes tend to have steeper head tube angles. Do a general search on google "criterium bike geometry". For example from the sheldon brown site
"The tight packs of a criterium put a particular premium on maneuverability. This has led to bicycles with more nearly vertical head and seat tube angles, and shorter wheelbases.
It is important to realize that this "criterium geometry" doesn't make a bike any faster, just more maneuverable. Another way to say "more maneuverable" is "twitchy." This sort of bike is somewhat unstable, and requires more attention to steering. If you're tired at the end of a long ride, this can lead to problems.The other undesirable side effect of "criterium geometry" is a harsh ride. The more upright angles reduce the "suspension" effect of the fork, and the shorter chain stays put the rear wheel closer under the saddle, which increases the jolting to your rear end. "
So could you race it? sure .... I had a bike that had a steeper than normal 71.5-72 angles for this size, it would oscillate when i took my hands off the bars.
ox_rider 02-17-2007, 07:37 AM Well, to compound the short torso, there is the fairly inflexible lower back. Working on it, but you can't have everything -- where would you put it?
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