Well, it's true. This is exactly what happens when you give too much authority to police and other law enforcement agencies. They abuse their power.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070309/D8NOE51O0.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - A blistering Justice Department report accuses the FBI of underreporting its use of the Patriot Act to force businesses to turn over customer information in terrorism cases, according to officials familiar with its findings.

The report, to be released Friday, also says the FBI failed to send follow-up subpoenas to telecommunications firms that were told to expect them, according to several government officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the report by the Justice Department's inspector general had not yet been released.

Overall, the FBI underreported the number of national security letters it issued by about 20 percent between 2003 and 2005, the officials said. In 2005 alone, the FBI delivered a total of 9,254 letters relating to 3,501 U.S. citizens and legal residents.

you have nothing to worry about

Bill Clinton!

Liberal Media!

Spyde, glad yer back

I seem to remember a quote by Woody Allen that's apropos.

you have nothing to worry about

Bill Clinton!

Liberal Media!

Spyde, glad yer back


I love that line... "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about." :shocked:

I may have to disappear for a while again, but it has been a fun week watching the repubs shred their last bit of credibility over Libby.

Termites, I'm telling you, termites.

By the time the morons in support of this sh*t see the damage done to our and their fundemental liberties it'll be too late. I swear, the day it happens, I'm taking my gun and gut-shooting every so-called conservative I have ammo for.

Termites, I'm telling you, termites.

By the time the morons in support of this sh*t see the damage done to our and their fundemental liberties it'll be too late. I swear, the day it happens, I'm taking my gun and gut-shooting every so-called conservative I have ammo for.

Remember, you aren't planning on shooting PC Libbies, your targets are the pro gun faction. :wink:

Remember, you aren't planning on shooting PC Libbies, your targets are the pro gun faction. :wink:


Even better... they'd think I was one of them and wouldn't expect it.

Even better... they'd think I was one of them and wouldn't expect it.

I guess you can bring it on if you think there is enough information in this "Leaked" report on the report. I'm alert now and packin'. :)

The article says nothing about 'abuse'. Basically it is just poor clerical work on the part of tha FBI. It also looks like the checks and accountability are working as well or this never would have been found out

Nice try.

I like the way the article claims that the "Bush administration pused through the PA". Gee I wonder who they had to hold hostage to get all them libs to sign it?

The letters require telephone companies, Internet service providers, banks, credit bureaus and other businesses to produce highly personal records about their customers or subscribers.


I just don't follow your logic. How does the collection of this information affect your personal liberties? If you have something to hide or if there is something suspicious about your profile then you should have something to worry about. But, I just don't see how the FBI having this information is taking away anyone's personal liberties. It's analogous to filing taxes. The government obtains an awful lot of personal information on an individual from their tax returns. Should we worry about giving such personal information to the IRS? Only if you were dishonest should you worry about a tax audit.

The US government has a duty to protect its citizens. One cannot enjoy their personal liberties if they are not personally safe. The FBI is using this information to track down suspicious profiles, and that's a good thing. If anything, this should contribute to the well being of our society. But as usual, liberals always come up with gloom and doom scenarios that will bring the world to an end. Last week it was cattle antibiotics and this week its FBI collecting information on individuals. I wonder what next week's end of the world conspiracy will be.

:rolleyes:

The letters require telephone companies, Internet service providers, banks, credit bureaus and other businesses to produce highly personal records about their customers or subscribers.


I just don't follow your logic. How does the collection of this information affect your personal liberties?

Because the Constitution says:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. [emphasis mine]



That's why. Want to collect the info, prove probable cause and get a warrant. It really is THAT simple. Oh, and it's the law.

Because the Constitution says:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. [emphasis mine]



That's why. Want to collect the info, prove probable cause and get a warrant. It really is THAT simple. Oh, and it's the law.

It saddens me...really it does how Patrick Henry in the House of Burgess in 1775 said "give me liberty or give me death." And now people are so apt to say..."give me your liberty or we are all going to die!"

Most just don't understand how much was on the line and what the odds against us were. Men like Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Madison, Monroe...they were on the...if we find them we are stringing them up by their necks--no questions asked list.

They didn't have to, they led happy, rich lives--but they desired more than their material goods...more than their lives. It should turn any patriots stomach to even consider...the thought of turning over our fundamental freedoms.

It saddens me...really it does how Patrick Henry in the House of Burgess in 1775 said "give me liberty or give me death." And now people are so apt to say..."give me your liberty or we are all going to die!"

Most just don't understand how much was on the line and what the odds against us were. Men like Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Madison, Monroe...they were on the...if we find them we are stringing them up by their necks--no questions asked list.

They didn't have to, they led happy, rich lives--but they desired more than their material goods...more than their lives. It should turn any patriots stomach to even consider...the thought of turning over our fundamental freedoms.


We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.




*sigh* How soon they forget.

One cannot enjoy their personal liberties if they are not personally safe.
I would contend that one cannot fully enjoy their personal liberties unless they accept a certain amount of risk. In non-threatening times there is little risk and, thusly, one needs to to accept little risk to enjoy ones liberties. In times of high risk one needs to accept a much greater proportion of risk to enjoy ones liberties. You see, liberties don't vary depending on the threat of harm. They are static. It is only the amount of threat that varies. To maintain the same amount of liberties in threatening times one must accept more risk. If one doesn't accept more risk one must give up liberties. It's a zero sum game.

I would contend that one cannot fully enjoy their personal liberties unless they accept a certain amount of risk.



One also cannot enjoy their personal liberties.... if they don't have them to enjoy.

One also cannot enjoy their personal liberties.... if they don't have them to enjoy.

just ames me love AMerica more and hate these SOBs equally more

thx for the nice quotes

"but it's just a piece of gawddamned paper........"

Because the Constitution says:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. [emphasis mine]



That's why. Want to collect the info, prove probable cause and get a warrant. It really is THAT simple. Oh, and it's the law.


That's just silly! The FBI isn't going from house to house breaking down doors to perform unreasonable search and seizures. What they are doing is gathering information from "telephone companies, Internet service providers, banks, credit bureaus and other businesses" to identify any suspicious activities that may warrant investigation. This is completely legal and explicitly covered under the Patriot Act which was overwhelmingly passed by Congress and signed by the president.

If suspicious activity is identified then the FBI must still obtain a search warrant before entering a house and searching for evidence. The Patriot Act in no way nullifies this constitutional right.

:idea:

It saddens me...really it does how Patrick Henry in the House of Burgess in 1775 said "give me liberty or give me death." And now people are so apt to say..."give me your liberty or we are all going to die!"

Most just don't understand how much was on the line and what the odds against us were. Men like Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Madison, Monroe...they were on the...if we find them we are stringing them up by their necks--no questions asked list.

They didn't have to, they led happy, rich lives--but they desired more than their material goods...more than their lives. It should turn any patriots stomach to even consider...the thought of turning over our fundamental freedoms.


The Patriot Act does not in any way nullify or "turn over" any freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution. You have the same freedoms and rights as you did 6 years ago when the Patriot Act was passed into law with the overwhelming support of the American people. It's all in you head.

:rolleyes:

The Patriot Act does not in any way nullify or "turn over" any freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution. You have the same freedoms and rights as you did 6 years ago when the Patriot Act was passed into law with the overwhelming support of the American people. It's all in you head.

:rolleyes:

When did I mention the Patriot Act?

Trolling your own agenda? Feel free to respond to what I posted, but remember...you are an out of the closet TROLL! Freely and openly admitted...so whatever you say is to be taken in that light...nothing is to be taken seriously.

have a nice day....

It's another punch in the gut.

It saddens me...really it does how Patrick Henry in the House of Burgess in 1775 said "give me liberty or give me death." And now people are so apt to say..."give me your liberty or we are all going to die!"

Most just don't understand how much was on the line and what the odds against us were. Men like Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Madison, Monroe...they were on the...if we find them we are stringing them up by their necks--no questions asked list.

They didn't have to, they led happy, rich lives--but they desired more than their material goods...more than their lives. It should turn any patriots stomach to even consider...the thought of turning over our fundamental freedoms.

Especially when they take away our liberties in the 'name' of Patriotism...

It's just sickening. :mad5:

It just goes further to show that they are scoundrels.

That's just silly! The FBI isn't going from house to house breaking down doors to perform unreasonable search and seizures. What they are doing is gathering information from "telephone companies, Internet service providers, banks, credit bureaus and other businesses" to identify any suspicious activities that may warrant investigation. This is completely legal and explicitly covered under the Patriot Act which was overwhelmingly passed by Congress and signed by the president.

If suspicious activity is identified then the FBI must still obtain a search warrant before entering a house and searching for evidence. The Patriot Act in no way nullifies this constitutional right.

:idea:


Why break down doors when you don't have to? Why do you think electronic information deserves any less privacy than a letter in an envelope or in a desk drawer?

Why not authorize fishing expeditions in regards to the Catholic church? I'm sure there's some communications flying around that would readily incriminate many of the child molestors and the subsequent cover-ups.


/all the more reason to use open source encryption technologies....

Especially when they take away our liberties in the 'name' of Patriotism...

It's just sickening. :mad5:


Well, hell, they've been taking away our liberties in the name of safety for a long time.

(See gun control, seizure laws, curtail of property rights)

/I hate the extreme right wing, but I hate the extreme left wing even more.
//sits back, grabs popcorn.

Well, hell, they've been taking away our liberties in the name of safety for a long time.

Does that make it ok?

Does that make it ok?

Of course not, but it seems to be the only thing certain people bring up when the discussion of 'the the erosion of liberties' in the US comes up.

The thought that always enter my mind is, 'hey where you been for the last few decades'

Repeal the Patriot Act. Repeal the Real ID act. Get this bunch of bozos behind bars, and apologize to the world...the last 7 years have been a mistake! Have you ever noticed, that whenever we have a real Constitutional crisis, it's always when the Repubs are running things? Why is that? (And not that I'm any fan of the current 'Democrats'-gutless swine, most).