just had my BF measured with one of those electrical devices that clips to fingers and toes. measured 21.8. I weigh 195 , so that means I am carrying 42.5lbs of fat. what I can't figure out is where I am keeping over 40lb of fat. I may have little extra aruond the middle, but that is like 5lbs max. where the heck is the other 35lbs? do these machines include water in the fat measure? I am not super lean, but 40lbs? I am shocked

How tall are you? If you were dehydrated, it may overestimate your BF%.

Also, a decent amount of fat is around the organs and starvation is the only way to get rid of it all.

Check out the wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_percentage

Don't worry 21.8% is defined as 'acceptable' by The American Council on Exercise.

Besides the 'essential' fat that the body stores around internal organs (visceral fat) I think you would be suprised how much subcutaneous fat can be stored just under the skin and not show too much (remember the skin is a big organ). This is especially true of people who 'don't show weight', cos they put it on evenly all over and not just gut, or @rse for example.

just had my BF measured with one of those electrical devices that clips to fingers and toes. measured 21.8. I weigh 195 , so that means I am carrying 42.5lbs of fat. what I can't figure out is where I am keeping over 40lb of fat. I may have little extra aruond the middle, but that is like 5lbs max. where the heck is the other 35lbs? do these machines include water in the fat measure? I am not super lean, but 40lbs? I am shocked

First of all, those machines are prone to errors from several sources, including your degree of hydration and how much muscle you're carrying. That's why the home BF scales have a separate setting for "athlete" etc. That said, unless you are 6'2" or more or a body builder, you may well be "visually underestimating" the amount of fat you're carrying. When people get down into the low teens or high single digits for BF, they look like concentration camp survivors. I'm guessing you are a LONG way from that :)

You might be distributing it much better than you would think. I'm 6'2" and 195lbs, 17%bf, and carry everything in my belly. legs and arms are solid, but when you look at my belly you would think I was crazy. Unless you can do the under water test the second best is the skin calipers. They measure your arm pit, waist, and legs. When they do that the different measures will give you a better idea where your bf is stored.

When people get down into the low teens or high single digits for BF, they look like concentration camp survivors. I'm guessing you are a LONG way from that :)

.......or fit? Your confusing body fat with muscle tissue. Body builders have ridiculously low body fat and if Goebbels had to deal with a million of these guys I doubt WWII would have even started.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2006/2006colpro_interv6a.jpg

.......and if Goebbels had to deal with a million of these guys I doubt WWII would have even started.

Are you joking, that guy could probably not run to catch a bus!

Are you joking, that guy could probably not run to catch a bus!

Um........actually yes. I figured the Goebbels reference was a dead giveaway, should I have photoshopped a parrot to his crotch to make it more obvious? Okay then. Also, I'm not sure what him running to catch a bus has to do with, well, anything, but more power to ya.

Did you miss the "or body builders" part of KI's post?

Not really complaining, the absurdity of the parrot got a good laugh out of me...

When people get down into the low teens or high single digits for BF, they look like concentration camp survivors.

I just thought I looked like a bike racer...

Never been 'dunked, but last time I got my BF% caliper'd by a trainer he said 6%...

Calipers have told me 6-7%. Probably would be dunked a little higher is what most folks say. But once I hit the single digits almost everyone I know began commenting on it.

As a side note, at 21% BF, you're outside basic Marine Corps limits.

As another side note, you might be carrying a good amount of it in the legs. I carried a lot of weight there when I was in the 190's (at 6'2"). I could keep a 35-36" waist while dropping weight from the thighs.

As a side note, at 21% BF, you're outside basic Marine Corps limits.

Diet tray for you fat body, oorah!

I am 5'11 and weighed in today at 192. I've lost 10lbs in the last 2 months. I am planning on going to 190 and then not losing any more. getting more lean yes, but I don't really want to be "skinny".

I am 5'11 and weighed in today at 192. I've lost 10lbs in the last 2 months. I am planning on going to 190 and then not losing any more. getting more lean yes, but I don't really want to be "skinny".


FYI, if you plan on being 5'11" , 190lbs and low body fat you better start lifting weights or be a serious lifter. That's a lot of lean muscle mass to be carrying around.

Also, a decent amount of fat is around the organs and starvation is the only way to get rid of it all.

Not that you want to... it means death, after all.

just had my BF measured with one of those electrical devices that clips to fingers and toes. measured 21.8. I weigh 195 , so that means I am carrying 42.5lbs of fat. what I can't figure out is where I am keeping over 40lb of fat. I may have little extra aruond the middle, but that is like 5lbs max. where the heck is the other 35lbs? do these machines include water in the fat measure? I am not super lean, but 40lbs? I am shocked


How tall are you?

Non athlete mode:

I'm 5'10, 195-191 lbs right now. I'm hitting 22%-25% depending on hydration level.

When I get to 176-173 lbs , I hit 17-19% depending on hydration level.

Athlete mode:

maybe 18% right now.

So to argentius and to Nomad who have fantastic bf% really...

I'm 5'9'' and weigh around 133lbs. As you probably know, I'm in track (sprinter) but I also do ride a fair bit and race too.

How do I get to around 8% or lower even by May/June? Needa lose another 10lbs or so to achieve that goal.

BUUUTT, I also needa be around 145lbs with that kinda low body fat % for track (need more muscle mass and also needa get more powerful)

Suggestions?

I train track 6 days a week, hitting the gym twice or 3 times. Mainly trackwork with speedwork/intervals/drills and all the like related to my events.

I also ride like around 4 times a week with some work like intervals done but also do recovery rides.

Oh and I do about 20-30 minutes of pilates everyday after training, sometimes twice a day if I also ride that day. (Just started with the pilates about 2 weeks ago)

Yup.

Thanks.

I just thought I looked like a bike racer...

Never been 'dunked, but last time I got my BF% caliper'd by a trainer he said 6%...

I hear ya. I fluctuate between 6-9% at 5'10" 150-155 lbs and have seen 4% (who knows how accurate that was). I get derogatory remarks about my weight all the time but the funny part is when those same people (racers) finally have the discipline to lose the fat they rant and rave about how fit they are. I wear those "your skinny" remarks as a badge of honor because I know it's just jealousy, plain and simple.

right, I just did the basic math. to get to 15% BF I would need to lose 14lbs, and I would end up arount 178 or so. that is *not* going to be a goal for me, unless.....I replace 14lbs of bf with muscle. I could easily do this if I started benching again, but that defeats the point...

right, I just did the basic math. to get to 15% BF I would need to lose 14lbs, and I would end up arount 178 or so. that is *not* going to be a goal for me, unless.....I replace 14lbs of bf with muscle. I could easily do this if I started benching again, but that defeats the point...

Any particular reason you're so set on staying the same weight? Don't get me wrong, muscle is good... but there's a point of diminishing returns. If the muscle is not helping you to be fast on the bike, it's just dead weight.

...ld need to lose 14lbs, and I would end up arount 178 or so. that is *not* going to be a goal for me,

So why ain't that a goal? What's wrong with 178lbs? :idea:

As a side note, at 21% BF, you're outside basic Marine Corps limits.

If you want to use the Marine Corps limits, then you have to measure by the Marine Corp method.

Procedures for Body Fat Estimation for Males:
(a) Measure the neck circumference by placing the edge of the tape
measure flush with the bottom of the larynx and perpendicular to the long axis of
the neck. The Marine should look straight ahead during the measurement, with
shoulders down (not hunched). For neck measurements in excess of the whole inch,
round the neck measurement up to the nearest 1/2-inch and record (e.g., round up 16
1/4 inches to 16 1/2 inches).
(b) Measure abdominal circumference against the skin at the navel,
level and parallel to the deck. Arms are at the sides. Take measurement at the
end of the Marine's normal, relaxed exhalation. Round the abdominal measurement
down to the nearest 1/2-inch and record (e.g., round down 34 3/4 to 34 1/2 inches).
(c) Determine percent body fat by subtracting the neck from the
abdominal measurement and comparing this value against the height measurement,
(e.g., abdominal - neck = circumference value). Refer to the chart "Percent Body
Fat Estimation for Males" in section II of appendix I.

Section 2 of appendix I can be found near the bottom of this document (http://www.usmc-mccs.org/display_files/weight.pdf).

Shoot, I don't know how to gain muscle mass, I certainly don't have much of it. I don't realyl know but it seems like there has to be at least a genetic COMPONENT to it...

2 years ago when I started riding I weighed 160, which people still called "skinny." I was totally out of shape, the only sport I played was Halo.

All I did was start riding, but I guess didn't increase my food intake proportionally. I wasn't "trying" to lose weight, but over 6-9 months I lost about 15 pounds to 145, and in the rest of the year it went down to 138, and has stayed +/- 2lbs of that for the past year or so.

edit: I just thought of somethign that happens naturally for me, that you might be able to engineer. I have kind of "sensitive digestion." When I get back from a ride, my stomach is all whacked out and I can't tolerate much solid food for an hour or so. So, I drink some sports drink and rest for a while, then eat a pretty solid dinner.

I think a lot of folks get into calorie-replenishment mode right when they get done riding.

So I might try the sports drink thing maybe tomorrow.

But I get starved after a ride.

What else could I do for my goals argentius? :)

So why ain't that a goal? What's wrong with 178lbs? :idea:

Because in "fatass" America it's un-manly to weigh less than 200lbs, doesn't matter if your 5'4" and can kick the crap out of three guys at the same time, if you weigh under 200lbs your a skinny girlie man.

So I might try the sports drink thing maybe tomorrow.

But I get starved after a ride.

What else could I do for my goals argentius? :)

Just an FYI, nutritionists say that most hunger pangs are actually the body craving fluids, so the next time you feel hungry but have eaten recently drink water, it helps curb the hunger.

If you can deal with the pain of interval training or something, and you want to get faster, I think you can deal with a bit of hunger, right? :)

If you've got the time, take a nap. It's good for you and you can't eat while you're asleep...

If you want to use the Marine Corps limits, then you have to measure by the Marine Corp method.


Actually, you don't _have_ to. Not that it says body fat estimation. The USMC body fat estimation favors folks with large necks, but I've also had folks calipered and dunked to "confirm" their obesity when the USMC method "didn't fit."

To Uzzie:

I wish I could tell you. I put in nearly 5000 miles this year since October, and significantly cut down portion sizes. I eat small meals a half-dozen or more times a day. The guys I work with are floored that I always seem to have food in front of me but am as skinny as I am now. I still eat foot after 8pm. I usually have a small meal around 9pm. If I don't, I wake up with cramps/hunger. Of course, I've also plateaued in my weight now too, so that may be telling. I still want to get another 5 pounds off somewhere if my body will let me.

I also stopped all upper body work. I live in a climber's world in Japan and if I didn't drop weight, I wasn't going to be competitive.

mmmm naps..... I like the sound of thaat. I can actually eat a LOT. Like, really. But I don't. Especially as of late since I started my goal to lean down etc. (although I probably am already skinny but anyway)

Nomad, your 'method' is well, OUCH!!! :)

Anyway, to lose 1lb of fat/whatever, you needa burn around 3500calories right? (something like that if I remember correctly)

So, I'm trying to figure out my body's basic metabolic rate like how much it burns on it's own per day without exercise and how much I burn through track training. Also, through riding. That'd give me better knowledge as to working towards my goal I guess.

right, I just did the basic math. to get to 15% BF I would need to lose 14lbs, and I would end up arount 178 or so. that is *not* going to be a goal for me, unless.....I replace 14lbs of bf with muscle. I could easily do this if I started benching again, but that defeats the point...

You don't consider it worthwhile to lose 14lbs of fat *unless* you replace it with 14lbs of muscle?????

my suits won't fit if I lose more weight. I already have a bunch I can't wear. I will however always target mysefl for weight savings before I go crazy upgrading my bike. besides I love blowing past the skinny guys on the downhills

my suits won't fit if I lose more weight. I already have a bunch I can't wear. I will however always target mysefl for weight savings before I go crazy upgrading my bike. besides I love blowing past the skinny guys on the downhills

They won't fit anyway if you replace 14 lbs of fat with 14 lbs of muscle. Muscle is more dense than fat and takes up a great deal less space. Find a tailor!

i got into lifting about 3 years ago in order to create lean muscle mass. unfortunatley lifting is the only way to do it. i am 5'11'' 160, lbs. last i checked my bf% was 5%. my strength on the bike is climbing. you would think that @ 160, lbs it would be sprinting, especially with all the lifting but its not.
here's my problem, considering my body frame and weight, i'm carrying some extra baggage in the form of muscle. the muscle looks great when your off the bike however its more oxygen that my body needs to supply on a climb and in long pace lines.
i'm at a crossroads too. do i keep the muscle or loose the weight? for mtn bike races i feel it really helps me fight fatique, but on the road.......not so sure. here's a pic from a race, i never considered myself a big guy (most say i'm pretty lean) but if you look at the skinny dude behind me (typical cyclist) there's no comparrison. i might need to stop lifting.http://masuperseries.com/2006update/RacePictures/Marysville/Sport/DSC00393.JPG

Just think... if you lose the arms but keep the rest, you'll be unstoppable on the bike. A little bit of arm strength is all that's needed, all that excess muscle (while maybe nice to look at) isn't making you faster.

i got into lifting about 3 years ago in order to create lean muscle mass. unfortunatley lifting is the only way to do it. i am 5'11'' 160, lbs. last i checked my bf% was 5%. my strength on the bike is climbing. you would think that @ 160, lbs it would be sprinting, especially with all the lifting but its not.
here's my problem, considering my body frame and weight, i'm carrying some extra baggage in the form of muscle. the muscle looks great when your off the bike however its more oxygen that my body needs to supply on a climb and in long pace lines.
i'm at a crossroads too. do i keep the muscle or loose the weight? for mtn bike races i feel it really helps me fight fatique, but on the road.......not so sure. here's a pic from a race, i never considered myself a big guy (most say i'm pretty lean) but if you look at the skinny dude behind me (typical cyclist) there's no comparrison. i might need to stop lifting.http://masuperseries.com/2006update/RacePictures/Marysville/Sport/DSC00393.JPG


It's definitely a trade off. If your really serious about being fast on a bike your gonna have to lose some muscle mass, but if overall fitness is your goal, meh, keep the muscle, it's good to have and your more balanced fitness wise. I'm transitioning into more muscle as I get less serious about racing. I did the skinny thing for years 5'11" 145lbs and was big(ger) from lifting previous (190 lbs) so I'm sorta qualified to comment.

I'll second that, mine (ironman scale) can vary as much as 6 percent in BF depending on hydration/dehydration and other factors (morning vs. evening). I just keep track of the trend line for a given time of day, and everything averages out over time, pretty much.




First of all, those machines are prone to errors from several sources, including your degree of hydration and how much muscle you're carrying.

Yup, you have to decide what is more important.. speed on the bike or looking good! I had my bf tested at my gym a few years ago when I weighed 172 lbs (i'm 5'9") and I always stayed/raced right about that weight. I was great in crits and flat races.. but dropped like a rock in the hills. I was told my BF was 12%.. I now know that it was wrong. By that calculation, It would have been really hard for me toget down to 155 lbs like I was 6 weeks ago (currently 159) and still feel like I could lose another 5-7 lbs. Your hiding alot more chub than you think, trust me. Oh, and those hills... much easier now, and I like going over the climbs in the top 10 rather than the bottom 10 like I use to.

Yup, you have to decide what is more important.. speed on the bike or looking good! I had my bf tested at my gym a few years ago when I weighed 172 lbs (i'm 5'9") and I always stayed/raced right about that weight. I was great in crits and flat races.. but dropped like a rock in the hills. I was told my BF was 12%.. I now know that it was wrong. By that calculation, It would have been really hard for me toget down to 155 lbs like I was 6 weeks ago (currently 159) and still feel like I could lose another 5-7 lbs. Your hiding alot more chub than you think, trust me. Oh, and those hills... much easier now, and I like going over the climbs in the top 10 rather than the bottom 10 like I use to.
Look, if you want to see a freak show, take a look at the elite cyclists from today and even some of the greats from the late 60' and 70's.

They even used to ask Merckx about his stick arms and he would usually reply that you dont bike with your arms.

Bottom line is that after doing strength sports and then getting into cycling, the whole bf% or muiscle mass thing is by and large a joke when used in the context of cycling.

How many seriously elite high end aerobic machines have a huge upper body...NONE.

The whole muscle for show thing is right up there with the prison tatto right above the crack. Yeah, wow, big woop. Most of the folks who do well in my experience on a bike will have a smaller physique. It does not mean that they are weak. It means they are efficient and can on any given day on a bike make you give up your lunch. Which is good in a way.

boy, you guys are tough. lol
i'm just under 6 feet tall 160 lbs and 6% bf. i don't really think that's "huge" i started lifting for "sport specific" reasons (mtb racing)
only prob is, this is a road bike forum.

as for size, you don't really find too many nfl athletes at 160 lbs.

the other reason i lift is to burn off extra calories (beer) on my lunch break. i can't imagine that being a bad thing. regardless of the sport

i got into lifting about 3 years ago in order to create lean muscle mass. unfortunatley lifting is the only way to do it. i am 5'11'' 160, lbs. last i checked my bf% was 5%. my strength on the bike is climbing. you would think that @ 160, lbs it would be sprinting, especially with all the lifting but its not.
here's my problem, considering my body frame and weight, i'm carrying some extra baggage in the form of muscle. the muscle looks great when your off the bike however its more oxygen that my body needs to supply on a climb and in long pace lines.
i'm at a crossroads too. do i keep the muscle or loose the weight? for mtn bike races i feel it really helps me fight fatique, but on the road.......not so sure. here's a pic from a race, i never considered myself a big guy (most say i'm pretty lean) but if you look at the skinny dude behind me (typical cyclist) there's no comparrison. i might need to stop lifting.http://masuperseries.com/2006update/RacePictures/Marysville/Sport/DSC00393.JPG


Ok, I need to be like THAAT for track (sprinting). 5'9'', 132lbs. But, I'm trying to get to around 8%bf or lower of course and also put on muscle mass for more power in track and field (my main sport). Whilst power is of utmost important, I also need to gain muscle mass too.

Would ya gimme yer arms? :D

So how the heck am I gonna lean down and gain muscle mass and look like that all at the same time??? :mad2:

edit: Ok I don't NEED to lean down as my track coach says but hey, I also wanna look better and since I do race on the bike too, I figure why not. And, it surely won't hurt. Only problem is, to put it simply, I gotta lose around 10lbs to be around 8% (give and take ) but also needa be around 150lbs at least for sprinting.

You're not going to bulk up for sprinting if you're riding a lot, or doing other endurance work.

What distances do you run?

As a side note, at 21% BF, you're outside basic Marine Corps limits.


You disgusting fat body!!!

http://25frames.org/media/screens/614.jpg

Back in college, I would run the cross country season at 145 lbs. and I am 6'4"- even with that the coach would tell me to cut weight...

You're not going to bulk up for sprinting if you're riding a lot, or doing other endurance work.

What distances do you run?


I don't ride that much ever since I sorta could start track again after recovering from an ankle injury.

My endurance work is typically well, for the moment, some bike work and some either rather long but fast paced games. Nothing excessive and unnecessary at this point in my training phase.

Oh, I run the 400m and the 200m.

The absolute dead lightest that I've EVER been, as an adult, was 180lbs. I am exactly 72 inches tall. I have ventured far back above 200 since getting married, hanging around 205. Then, during the height of cycling season, my weight goes back sub 200, to around 197-198. It kills me on hills. It kills me in crits. I do fine on flat road races. I played football and baseball in HS, and got pretty strong. I've always been Quad-zilla, and I believe that is where I store the most fat as well. My legs are like tree-trunks, and I know that a person can't "spot-lose" the weight. I beleive the source of the weight that I seem to catch and hold is excessive sweet foods and sugary items. Not a big fast food person. Also, believe it or not, I believe the excessive amounts of diet soda I drink makes me hold onto water weight, with all that sodium being the reason why. Losing weight in a household that regularly purchases Chips Ahoy, chocolate Ice cream, and mountain dew is impossible. Our grocery bill would be $200 per week for 2.5 people(we have a 1st grader) if I insisted on healthy food only, because I can guarantee she would still buy the junk food.

And in case anyone's wondering, yeah, she put on a fewwwwww pounds after marriage....