I raced about 6 times last year on the road. it was my first year racing. I had one 4th in a cat 5 race, and the rest were pack fill placings. This year I have noticed that all the races I will be able to attend are a combined Cat4/5 field. Even some of the races that last year had decent sized Cat 5 only races are combined this year. I don't mind racing with guys who haved moved up out of Cat 5, but this also includes all the 4's who are sandbagging and should be 3's. that effectively means I am racing with guys 2 cats ahead of me. sure there is alot to learn from them, blah, blah, blah. but once in a while it would be nice to race with "cat peers" and not feel like I am getting my ass kicked all the time. BTW, it will clearly take awhile for me to accumulate enough top placings to actually become a cat 4, if I am racing combined 4/5's all the time. I might have to go out of state to find some 5 races to generate enough top finishes to move up.

i can see your frustration, but really, you only need to finish 10 races to move to a cat 4. that's the only requirement. no points needed.

regardless, the difference b/t the two fields is usually not that great. you'll have very poor bike handlers in both cats. our 4 field this year is waaaay scarier than the 5s i raced last year. wtf? the pacing is usually quite comprable. the only difference i've noticed in my area is that the finishing spring is a bit faster with a few more guys able to contest...my sprint is the suxxor either way....so c'est la vive...

hang in there. racing is about pain. the difference b/t 4 and 5 pain is negligible.

I raced about 6 times last year on the road. it was my first year racing. I had one 4th in a cat 5 race, and the rest were pack fill placings. This year I have noticed that all the races I will be able to attend are a combined Cat4/5 field. Even some of the races that last year had decent sized Cat 5 only races are combined this year. I don't mind racing with guys who haved moved up out of Cat 5, but this also includes all the 4's who are sandbagging and should be 3's. that effectively means I am racing with guys 2 cats ahead of me. sure there is alot to learn from them, blah, blah, blah. but once in a while it would be nice to race with "cat peers" and not feel like I am getting my ass kicked all the time. BTW, it will clearly take awhile for me to accumulate enough top placings to actually become a cat 4, if I am racing combined 4/5's all the time. I might have to go out of state to find some 5 races to generate enough top finishes to move up.

AFAIK, you only need to race 10 mass start races to cat up to a 4. It does not matter if it's a road race, circuit race, criterium, or if it's a 4/5 or straight 5 race. Just race 10 races and finish them, regardless of placing you can cat up. This is how it was last year unless it has been changed for 2007.

AFAIK, you only need to race 10 mass start races to cat up to a 4. It does not matter if it's a road race, circuit race, criterium, or if it's a 4/5 or straight 5 race. Just race 10 races and finish them, regardless of placing you can cat up. This is how it was last year unless it has been changed for 2007.
I don't know that one even needs to finish the race, just start:
http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580

Heck, I don't even know if a person has to "finish" those 10 races. Just be on the starting line. But what's the point then, huh? I've been Cat 4-ever. I doubt I'll ever be able to dedicate the time and energy to getting up to 3. I wish I could. At age 31, it's getting harder and harder to do. And with so much turmoil in my professional/career life, I find that I'm sinking all my time into getting a job and keeping a job.

Cycling appears to be slipping out of my hands. With 8 weeks lost this year alone due to broken collarbone and recent walking pneumonia, 2007 isn't shaping up to be great.

Heck, I don't even know if a person has to "finish" those 10 races. Just be on the starting line. But what's the point then, huh? I've been Cat 4-ever. I doubt I'll ever be able to dedicate the time and energy to getting up to 3. I wish I could. At age 31, it's getting harder and harder to do. And with so much turmoil in my professional/career life, I find that I'm sinking all my time into getting a job and keeping a job.

Cycling appears to be slipping out of my hands. With 8 weeks lost this year alone due to broken collarbone and recent walking pneumonia, 2007 isn't shaping up to be great.

Yup...I tried to keep racing after my first kid, but it got really old trying to find time to train and then when I'd race I'd just be pack fodder anyway so I lost interest. I just ride now.

I raced about 6 times last year on the road. it was my first year racing. I had one 4th in a cat 5 race, and the rest were pack fill placings. This year I have noticed that all the races I will be able to attend are a combined Cat4/5 field. Even some of the races that last year had decent sized Cat 5 only races are combined this year. I don't mind racing with guys who haved moved up out of Cat 5, but this also includes all the 4's who are sandbagging and should be 3's. that effectively means I am racing with guys 2 cats ahead of me. sure there is alot to learn from them, blah, blah, blah. but once in a while it would be nice to race with "cat peers" and not feel like I am getting my ass kicked all the time. BTW, it will clearly take awhile for me to accumulate enough top placings to actually become a cat 4, if I am racing combined 4/5's all the time. I might have to go out of state to find some 5 races to generate enough top finishes to move up.

Yes, as others mentioned, you need only *start* 10 mass start races to upgrade to 4.

Typically, Cat 4's can get prizes; 5's can't (around here).

I found that there are plenty of 5's that are fast -- lots of mtb cross overs. 4's races may not be any faster. Plus, 5's races can involve a lot of nutty quasi-breaks, and 4's more purposeful. Might be easier,actually, to hang on in 4's race.

Don't worry about it. You don't need placings, finishes, points, or any of that to upgrade. Just get through 5's as quick as you can.

Every Cat has a number of those who might upgrade, but haven't. Part of the program. Accept it.

Really there is very little difference between 4 and 5. And usually only a slight speed difference once you get to 3, but people in 3 know how to ride a straight line and don't chase down every single move once it gets more than 5m off the front. Once you get into 1/2 you are in for a world of pain. I long for the days of cat3, life was so much simpler back then.

I look at it like Cat 5's are there to learn - placing is irrelevant (to me).

I've done about 2-3 road races a year for the last 2-3 years. I've had a 2nd in a straight cat 5 and the rest mostly pack fill in 4/5's. This year I requested cat 4 upgrade as the last cat 5 race I did there have been some real stupid riders. I opted for my first race this weekend to get beat around by the Masters - maybe not my brightest move, but a move none the less. Plus I am a Photographer that still likes to race and the Masters Race is
1st so that gives me the rest of the day to Photograph the remaining racing.

Do I care if I get dropped - kind of expecting it
Do I want to get dropped - no
Will I learn some more - definately
Will I get in better shape - main reason I like racing, plus I have a competative side in me that I need to fullfill.

KMan
www.MLKimages.com





I raced about 6 times last year on the road. it was my first year racing. I had one 4th in a cat 5 race, and the rest were pack fill placings. This year I have noticed that all the races I will be able to attend are a combined Cat4/5 field. Even some of the races that last year had decent sized Cat 5 only races are combined this year. I don't mind racing with guys who haved moved up out of Cat 5, but this also includes all the 4's who are sandbagging and should be 3's. that effectively means I am racing with guys 2 cats ahead of me. sure there is alot to learn from them, blah, blah, blah. but once in a while it would be nice to race with "cat peers" and not feel like I am getting my ass kicked all the time. BTW, it will clearly take awhile for me to accumulate enough top placings to actually become a cat 4, if I am racing combined 4/5's all the time. I might have to go out of state to find some 5 races to generate enough top finishes to move up.

I think the main difference between 4's and 5's is the field is alot deeper. I have a friend who has been racing 5's this year, and I race 4's soon to be 3's. To compare our fields...he has come to the finish in the climbing races with 5-7 guys...I've been coming to the finsih with 10-15 guys and his fields have been slightly larger. Our climbing abilities are really close, I doubt either of us could drop the other. I hear you guys with jobs/family getting in the way but here is what i've noticed this year. I had the same issues, life getting in the way and i'm 33 now. This last year, i just didn't get off the bike so i've been riding for 15 months straight. i wouldn't even say I have "trained" at all really, hardly done any intervals. I've just enjoyed riding, lost some weight and now I'm at the front of the pack almost to my surprise. Plan on being a 3 in the next 2 months.

Do I care if I get dropped - kind of expecting it
Do I want to get dropped - noKMan


Hey, getting dropped just means your day changed from a group ride to a time trial. That's what I keep telling myself...

>> "getting dropped just means your day changed from a group ride to a time trial"

Great quote!

ok fine, I'll say it: I want to experience freakin win!!!

Catagory number are just that... numbers...
In colorado we really don't have Cat 5s. The ACA (most races are permited under it) totaly did away with the group. The USCF races we do have combine 4/5 all the time.

the diffrences between catagories is soooooo slight. Most cat 4s that have solid performances and upgrade mid season find some good results right away as a 3. Often the average speed of the crits is maybe 1 or 2 mph faster. Some days it's even slower.

Look at some hill climbs out there for good comparison... you'll find the top cat 4 times are about in the middle of the P1/2 guys. The diffrence is slight on speed and stregnth. More it's skill, cornering skills, pack handleing, and mentaly being able to make good choices (and actualy attacking)

think of the catagories more of experience then speed.

as for sandbagging... You see it in every catagory. Right now, i'm guessing some of your fellow cat 5 racers might consider you a sandbagger. People throw that term way too much. (I have)

Most of them have gotten the min. upgrade points and then the finger pointing starts. More often they have seen the podium once and a lot of 4-8th placings. They want what you want. To win. Or they want to work for some teamates to help them upgrade. (few consider that before calling names and pointing fingers)

Take my CX season last year in the 3s...

Redrocks CX 9/24/2006 17th
Brectober CX 10/14/2006 6th
Frisco CX CX 10/15/2006 9th
DBC arapahoe ridge 10/21/2006 15th
BR Interlocken 10/22/2006 9th
USGP Xilinx CX 11/4/2006 30th
USGP Boulder 11/5/2006 21st
Arapahoe Ridge HS 11/11/2006 16th
Boulder CX #4 11/18/2006 9th
Redrocks CX 11/19/2006 5th
G-Men CX CX 11/26/2006 8th
Boulder CX states 12/9/2006 3rd

I really never dominated any race. I got some good results and now am sitting 4 points shy of my upgrade. Take my 3rd at states, a couple riders got flat tires ahead of me. I had no idea i was that far up. My 9th place was the closest to any sort of domination. I drove the pace the first 2/3rds in either 1st or second. But i blew up harder then the hindenburg. Before i upgrade i really want to get to the point i can be with the front group (instead of often seeing them just ahead) I want to attack them, respond to attacks and not just hang on for dear life. But you can bet some riders will remember my 3rd at states and think i'm sandbagging.

Treat every finish like you were sprinting for the win. You might look silly doing it in 35th place but it's good training for the body how to respond when the tank is empty. Keep doing that and eventualy you'll be sprinting for the win.

and do you intervals.

Cat. 5 is nothing more than a waiting room. Around NYC, where you can race twice per weekend almost every weekend, you can get your 10 races done in a month and a half and move up to Cat. 4. If you want to win a race, your best shot is probably in CRCA C races (before you move up to Cat. 4 and race CRCA B). Pinpoint some of the stronger C riders before a race and do one of two things: either stick on their wheels and jump when they jump; or talk to them before the race and see if they will attack with you on or after Harlem Hill. Then your break will stick and you'll have a chance to outsprint them at the finish.

As for Cat. 4, it's tough in the NYC area. Yes, there are a lot of guys who are 4FL (4s for Life)...like me. I just don't have the time to train to get podium finishes and gain the points. I'm 37 with a career and family, and I'm competing against 27-year-old single guys with coaches and PowerTaps who train 20+ hours a week.

And then when you go to out-of-town races, you'll compete against Cat. 4s who've spent years climbing in the Berkshires and New Hampshire...while you've been training on the "hills" of New Jersey. Ouch.

Just go out there, ride near the front as much as possible and have fun. Good things will happen.

The most sandbagged Cat is 5. It is made for sandbagging by definition as anyone racing without a license HAS to race Cat 5.

Meaning, you could have someone with loads of natural talent or even a former Cat 3 (or higher) who didn't want to purchase an annual license this year relegated to Cat 5.

I've seen Cat 2s, 3s and 4s register for Cat 5s claiming they don't have a license to get another race in or as their warm-up. I think it is very difficult for race promoters and USACycling to police this.

It is detrimental to the enjoyment of the race by bonafide Cat 4 and 5 riders.

I think in any field, you have a portion that is not in good shape at all so I know if i'm in decent shape i've got probably 50% of the field beat before the race starts. I have two good friends that have raced for years and got me into it about 5-6 years ago. They were and are Sand Baggers. I moved up to a 4 before they did so they felt obligated. One of them had enough points in half a season to move to 3's.. never did. I told him i'm moving up soon, and to stop sand bagging so I think he will follow soon. They both were racing 5's when they were more than capable of finishing well in a cat 3 race. I look at it this way also... I would feel better about a 10-15th place finish in a 3's race, than I would a top 5 in a 4's race. I like that bigger challenge, and you can't get to 2's without being a 3 first! I've only been a 4 for this long because of injury, illness work/family..I havent done more than 3-4 races in one year since i moved up 4-5 years ago. Since I committed this year, I've done 7 races and moving up will be easy.

The most sandbagged Cat is 5. It is made for sandbagging by definition as anyone racing without a license HAS to race Cat 5.

Meaning, you could have someone with loads of natural talent or even a former Cat 3 (or higher) who didn't want to purchase an annual license this year relegated to Cat 5.

I've seen Cat 2s, 3s and 4s register for Cat 5s claiming they don't have a license to get another race in or as their warm-up. I think it is very difficult for race promoters and USACycling to police this.

It is detrimental to the enjoyment of the race by bonafide Cat 4 and 5 riders.

Technically, from what I understand, it isn't legal to race down in cat regardless of annual license or not. I get what your saying though, that some guys do it "illegaly". I'm guilty of that this year. There is an EB criterium series in the Bay Area (california).. the 4/5's starts at like 8am, the beginner 5's (less than 5 races) starts at 11am I think. I was going with a friend that just started racing, he was trying to get as many starts in as he could so he could move up...I bought a 1 day so I could race with him and just get a workout. i would not have gone otherwise since the races don't count for anything. I knew going in I didn't want to win and potentially get caught.. so I made it my job to chase every break, close every gap the entire race. Chased down 2 seperate breaks in the final lap by myself and just ran out of road at the finish line to end up 5th out of about 70-80 guys. That field was VERY weak. I told my friend if I had raced that way in a regular cat 4 crit.. I would have been dangling off the back in the sprint. For comparison, 6 weeks later.. cat 4/5 crit in the rain... 42 guys started, only 15 left on the lead lap at the finish...I had no legs left after racing 60 mile road race the day before, passed 1-2 guys in the sprint to finish 10th.

I've also had the misfortune of racing against guys that were coming from other endurance disciplines like triathlon...they would ride off the front in the first 10 miles of 60+ mile road races never to be seen again. They would be cat 2's by the end of the year or higher. Nothing you can do about that!

you don't get real consistency in a field until at least Cat 3, maybe not really until 1/2 fields, where everyone has the legs and the experience. Until then, legs and experience really are all over the place.
as others have said, the differences among the lower categories are about experience, not legs. Remember that 5 is considered a rank beginner (f/k/a Citizens, but they gave it a Category, I guess to get the license fees?), 4 is Novice, and 3 is the lowest ranked Senior. There is a guy in my club who has Cat 2 legs, but he's only a handful of races out of Cat 5. He was annoyed that he had to wait for his 4 and then 3 upgrade, but the coordinator, I'm sure, was way more concerned about experience than about his ability to be competitive if legs were the only measure.

I raced about 6 times last year on the road. it was my first year racing. I had one 4th in a cat 5 race, and the rest were pack fill placings. This year I have noticed that all the races I will be able to attend are a combined Cat4/5 field. Even some of the races that last year had decent sized Cat 5 only races are combined this year. I don't mind racing with guys who haved moved up out of Cat 5, but this also includes all the 4's who are sandbagging and should be 3's. that effectively means I am racing with guys 2 cats ahead of me. sure there is alot to learn from them, blah, blah, blah. but once in a while it would be nice to race with "cat peers" and not feel like I am getting my ass kicked all the time. BTW, it will clearly take awhile for me to accumulate enough top placings to actually become a cat 4, if I am racing combined 4/5's all the time. I might have to go out of state to find some 5 races to generate enough top finishes to move up.

Sandbagging only gets worse as you upgrade, and prize money becomes available. It is a particular problem in the Cat III field. There are numerous Cat IIIs who routinely win or place in multiple races each weekend, yet refuse to upgrade. Of course, if they raced as Cat IIs, they'd be riding in Pro-I-II races where they'd be less likely to finish in the money.

I strongly believe that the USCF should limit the award of money prizes to only the Pro, I and II fields. At the same time, it should limit the size of entry fees charged to enter Cat III, IV and V races. If recreational racers (which Cat IIIs are by definition) want to race for money, they can upgrade to Cat II if they are able to do so. All of us other weekend warriors can have some fun without handing our money to a few sandbaggers.

By limiting the size of entry fees paid to enter those races without prize money, the USCF would encourage participation in racing at the grassroots, "recreational" level. My friends who raced in Europe joke that they often raced for cans of sardines. Maybe this is not such a bad thing!

The way I read the rules you are supposed to upgrade once you have attained the points required.

If that is the case then the USCF needs to figure out how to make this compulsory or open up the possiblity of contesting results due to sandbagging.

The way I read the rules you are supposed to upgrade once you have attained the points required.

If that is the case then the USCF needs to figure out how to make this compulsory or open up the possiblity of contesting results due to sandbagging.

Cat 4s and Cat 3s receive automatic upgrades after they receive a certain amount of points over the minimum. This rule is in place to prevent the true sandbaggers from sandbagging forever. However, they can still take time off in a calendar year, let their points expire, and then sandbag later on. Many Cat3s do not want to participate in 120 mile road races, especially if they've received all of their points in crits. If they upgrade to 2, they will essentially be stuck doing only crits because their schedule will not allow them to train for road races. In my district, our rep has a new rule this year... no rider over the minimum upgrade number will receive team points for the best all around team competition. It's a small penalty perhaps, but it's something.

Cat 4 sandbaggers... i'll never understand this one. It's just as easy to sit in a pack in the 4s as it is in the 3s. In fact, it's easier on many occasions since it's so much smoother. Sure, it may be a little bit more difficult to sniff the podium in the 3s, but everything else is better. Plus, what strong 4 wouldn't want the recognition that he's racing in a category that he's earned with his talent and hard work?

ok fine, I'll say it: I want to experience freakin win!!!

winning isn't easy or free man...start pedalin'! winning hurts..either during a race or in practice...you may get lucky but that still doesn't come without some pain.

if you want to win a race, you have to place yourself in those races that cater to your strenghts (Boonen doesn't win uphill climbs and Lance rarely won a sprint)...find out what those are (it requires putting yourself in different races and assessing how you feel afterwards, what you think you could have done differnetly or better) and grow from there.

my best finishes have been on my TT bike and on races with up hill finishes...I consider myself then a time trialer and climber...

find your niche and go after it!

I am very new to bike racing. Did my first race two weeks ago. I felt I would be too strong for cat 5, so I raced masters 35+ (I am 41). Can I still get upgrade points for this as I would like to get out of cat 5? I finished in the top 10 of 80 by making the break. Is staying in masters the quickest way to upgrade?

I am very new to bike racing. Did my first race two weeks ago. I felt I would be too strong for cat 5, so I raced masters 35+ (I am 41). Can I still get upgrade points for this as I would like to get out of cat 5? I finished in the top 10 of 80 by making the break. Is staying in masters the quickest way to upgrade?
upgrading from 5 to 4 is through ten mass start races. You do not need even to finish them. You can win all ten, or get dropped from all ten. As a matter of the rules, this is not negotiable, and, although there is some discretion involved, the coordinator may want you to finish all ten, regardless. Some coordinators may let you upgrade faster, but you usually need at least 8. It's about experience.
From 4 to 3, there are three ways to do it. Upgrade points, which are awarded to the top 6 spots, I believe, or ten top tens within a year, or 25 pack finishes in fields of over 50. Check the USCF rules for more information, because I think that there are a few more ifs ands and buts. The watchword there, though, still is competence over legs.

Bill,

Thanks for the explanation. I am racing again this weekend and plan on just doing masters. The races are longer and If I have to get up early and drive, I might as well ride as long as possible. I do not really care about my cat as long as I can race masters.

Bill,

Thanks for the explanation. I am racing again this weekend and plan on just doing masters. The races are longer and If I have to get up early and drive, I might as well ride as long as possible. I do not really care about my cat as long as I can race masters.
some promoters will exclude Cat 5 Masters (or create a separate field for 4/5 Masters). And you can't race Nationals unless you're at least a Masters 3.
But you can upgrade to 4 through Masters, and I know people who've upgraded to 3 completely through Masters.

some promoters will exclude Cat 5 Masters (or create a separate field for 4/5 Masters). And you can't race Nationals unless you're at least a Masters 3.
But you can upgrade to 4 through Masters, and I know people who've upgraded to 3 completely through Masters.
That is my only concern. At my first race the promoter strongly encouraged me to race cat 5 35+. I almost had to beg to get in open masters. If I have a couple more good results can I ask for an upgrade to 4 to make sure I do not get excluded from a race I want to do?

That is my only concern. At my first race the promoter strongly encouraged me to race cat 5 35+. I almost had to beg to get in open masters. If I have a couple more good results can I ask for an upgrade to 4 to make sure I do not get excluded from a race I want to do?
well, don't take any of it as a personal criticism or as an unreasonable request.
you did well in your race; you got in the break. cool. you've got legs. you've got talent. that's only part of the equation, however, as I have said at different times in different ways in this thread. the other part, the biggest part of the coordinator's worry when you are talking about going from 5 to 4 or even 4 to 3 -- is experience. it's not the finish that anyone is worried about. it's about touching wheels, or when a guy hits your hip or grazes your bars, or five guys across going around a turn -- how are you going to react? being in a pack is way different from being on a group ride or even being in a break.
Get the experience. despite their reputation, 5's tend to ride pretty conservatively and pretty safely, as long as no one thinks that he is the second coming and tries things that he has no business trying.
Get the experience. It matters.

well, don't take any of it as a personal criticism or as an unreasonable request.
you did well in your race; you got in the break. cool. you've got legs. you've got talent. that's only part of the equation, however, as I have said at different times in different ways in this thread. the other part, the biggest part of the coordinator's worry when you are talking about going from 5 to 4 or even 4 to 3 -- is experience. it's not the finish that anyone is worried about. it's about touching wheels, or when a guy hits your hip or grazes your bars, or five guys across going around a turn -- how are you going to react? being in a pack is way different from being on a group ride or even being in a break.
Get the experience. despite their reputation, 5's tend to ride pretty conservatively and pretty safely, as long as no one thinks that he is the second coming and tries things that he has no business trying.
Get the experience. It matters.
That is a fair answer. I do not take any of it as criticism or personal. But to be fair, there was an awful lot of dumb **** going on that caused crashes in the race, and it was not being down by cat 5's. On the whole, I do not mind being a 5. The only reason I want to upgrade is because the races are longer and I enjoy the extra miles.

If you place in the top 5 of a Cat V race, you are ready to move up, unless it was a fluke.
If you want to win a race you could wait a long time, and essentially end up being a sandbagger yourself. Racing against Cat IVs will show what you are made of, and many races that combine classes offer bonuses for top placings by the lower classes.

Its all for fun anyway, and even the payouts for IIIs aren't all that great, basically pay for your entry fees, maybe a little extra.

If you place in the top 5 of a Cat V race, you are ready to move up, unless it was a fluke.
If you want to win a race you could wait a long time, and essentially end up being a sandbagger yourself. Racing against Cat IVs will show what you are made of, and many races that combine classes offer bonuses for top placings by the lower classes.

Its all for fun anyway, and even the payouts for IIIs aren't all that great, basically pay for your entry fees, maybe a little extra.
I disagree, and I encourage patience in strong riders who are eager to move up.
If you drive breaks or solo attacks from 5 fields and win half of them, you've learned nothing about riding in a pack. Maybe that's all you'll get in the lower cat's ever because you're that strong, but the lower Cat's are mostly about learning to ride in packs. Strength is all but beside the point. Cat 4 fields are not that much harder or faster than Cat 5, they're just bigger (around here, anyway). And 3/4 races are maybe a bit faster, although you mostly have to be smarter and more skilled to do well in them.

I disagree, and I encourage patience in strong riders who are eager to move up.
If you drive breaks or solo attacks from 5 fields and win half of them, you've learned nothing about riding in a pack. Maybe that's all you'll get in the lower cat's ever because you're that strong, but the lower Cat's are mostly about learning to ride in packs. Strength is all but beside the point. Cat 4 fields are not that much harder or faster than Cat 5, they're just bigger (around here, anyway). And 3/4 races are maybe a bit faster, although you mostly have to be smarter and more skilled to do well in them.

Actually, I think we are on the same page. I am working under the assumption you have some experience riding in packs if you are racing. I don't think a cat V race is the place to learn to ride in packs at higher speeds, would hope anyone who is entering a race has been training in fast group rides etc.

Actually, I think we are on the same page. I am working under the assumption you have some experience riding in packs if you are racing. I don't think a cat V race is the place to learn to ride in packs at higher speeds, would hope anyone who is entering a race has been training in fast group rides etc.
I am coming to learn that there are differences in racing scenes around the country that make some of my points moot for some riders. Around the DC metro area, Cat 5, 4, and 3/4 fields fill. that means you have 50 riders in the Cat 5 fields, and usually 100 or even up to 125 in the 4 and 3/4 fields, depending on the course. The difference between a 50-rider field and a 100 rider field is huge. Huge. Huge. Huge. There are strong legs in all of them, but the pack dynanics are very different.

True. Things can get a lot sketchier when you have a 100+ field jockeying for positions heading into key sections of a course. Desparate people do some particularly stupid things.

Some regional races have combined fields into 4/5, 3/4, P/1/2/3, which is not a bad idea for promoters trying to minimize number of fields, but does lead to bigger fields, especially the lower cats. Provides some interesting options for 3s and 4s, especially early in the season when some are pretty unfit.

Do you have any good links listing comprehensive race schedules in the mid atlantic? I have thought about possibly hitting one or two in that area this summer.

today was my 5th road race(ever) and my second day on the road this year. I ride a spin bike everyday. came in 3rd by half a wheel 1 bike length from 1st. was a solid field sprint in a combined Cat 4/5 race of about 40 guys. I could have contended for the win but I had the wrong wheel at 200yds out. granted today was short and flat, but if all races were like this, I would be a solid 4. however, many races are long and hilly, and I don't know if I would place nearly as well. we will see...

True. Things can get a lot sketchier when you have a 100+ field jockeying for positions heading into key sections of a course. Desparate people do some particularly stupid things.

Some regional races have combined fields into 4/5, 3/4, P/1/2/3, which is not a bad idea for promoters trying to minimize number of fields, but does lead to bigger fields, especially the lower cats. Provides some interesting options for 3s and 4s, especially early in the season when some are pretty unfit.

Do you have any good links listing comprehensive race schedules in the mid atlantic? I have thought about possibly hitting one or two in that area this summer.
the best resource is mabra.org, the Mid-Atlantic Bicycle Racing Assoc. Pretty good calendar, although the schedule is posted well before permits are allowed, etc. As they say, as paraphrased from the New Yorker, bicycle racers and promoters live complicated lives, and it is always best to confirm listings.
while I understand why promoters do it, I think 4/5 races are a bad idea, because they defeat the purpose of Cat 5 racing. 4's take chances that 5's won't, and 3's, IMHO, take more chances than anyone.