I'm interested in ceramic bearings and Neuvation has a great deal going as well as American classic. Local guy says he has ceramic on his TT and can't tell any difference...reviews all over say otherwise....anybody have experience w/ ceramic yet?

I dont like to say this but...SEARCH!!!!
this has been discussed, argued over, and generally just *****ed over for some time.

Local guy says he has ceramic on his TT and can't tell any difference...reviews all over say otherwise...

The only reviews you need to pay attention to are the ones where they actually *measured* the power loss or lack thereof. You'll save less than a watt... and in case you don't know this is *way* below what you'll be able to notice... unless you are placebo prone. You can decide if it's worth it.

I very much doubt you would notice the difference. I have a lot of eperience with ceramics in model engines. These are exposed to a very harsh environment and they do offer a longer term before replacement. They also have a lower rolling resistance. As far as making a diff. to your bikes handling, i doubt it but they are superior bearings.

Difference? Sure but very small. Worth it? Maybe. I've done it but I can also afford it. I think the criteria for the upgrade is that racing is a paycheck for you or that racing means so much to you you want every advantage possible to get you to the podium or just that you have the cash to do it and the money means nothing. So if your riding non-competitevly the only thing it will do for you is to get to the sag in a century 2 seconds before you buddies or at the same time with .0005 less energy spent.

This is from Neuvation's website:

"All Neuvation™ wheels use precision cartridge bearings. Standard equipment are Abec 5 level bearings. Ceramic bearing upgrade kits are also available. You should be aware that ceramic bearings only offer about a 4 watt advantage. They feel smoother spinning the wheel in your hands, but they don’t offer much in the real world."

http://www.neuvationcycling.com/parts_promos/parts_tools/parts_tools.html

4 watts is not that big of a difference. It may be worth it to put your upgrade $ somewhere else.

4 watts is not that big of a difference.

4W isn't that small. If they provided that much benefit, it would make more sense. Were did you get that number?

I think it was from the Neuvation website :)

saw that as well--thanks for the feedback

search? isn't that what I'm doing on here? asking other people for feedback is a way of searching for different opinions and feedback

search? isn't that what I'm doing on here? asking other people for feedback is a way of searching for different opinions and feedback
he probably meant the search function, which would have given more detailed discussions (no offense to any of the answers here).

tamparides: yeah i was in the same boat as you're a month ago about ceramic upgrade. i would spending up close to $ 500 for ALL the ceramic upgrades ( D/A BB=$175, deraileur pulley=$ 160 ) option: hub bearing=$150 for those who own Zipp/Mavic wheels ( i own 404 ) as of right now i HAVE NOT pull a trigger b/c i want to know if AFTER i upgrade to ceramic, would i go 2-3 MPH faster than my average speed of currently 20-22 MPH/20 miles ( 24-25 average MPH ?? ) i would definitely spend extra $ 500 if i would go 2-3 MPH faster. afterall i already spent close to $ 5K for my Madone/404/DA 10, what an extra $ 500 going to hurt?? then why haven't i upgrade already if money isn't an issue?? b/c right now i'm wondering about swifting from Shimano to campy.

P.S: Michael Rasmussen of Robobank DID use ceramic parts on his bike these past two years so it must be working?? stay tune.

I did it and guess what? My average speed went up 10kph and I can climb 20% hills with 53-12 combo!!!.:D

Seriously, I have ceramic bearings in my BB and wheels and I haven't noticed a thing. My LBS offered me a deal($50 for all bearing set), and I was bored so I did it. Honestly I didn't expect to notice any difference anyway. I'm not a racer so I really don't need the advantage of saving 1 watt. I guess I'm a victom of marketing hype.:(

tamparides: yeah i was in the same boat as you're a month ago about ceramic upgrade. i would spending up close to $ 500 for ALL the ceramic upgrades ( D/A BB=$175, deraileur pulley=$ 160 ) option: hub bearing=$150 for those who own Zipp/Mavic wheels ( i own 404 ) as of right now i HAVE NOT pull a trigger b/c i want to know if AFTER i upgrade to ceramic, would i go 2-3 MPH faster than my average speed of currently 20-22 MPH/20 miles ( 24-25 average MPH ?? ) i would definitely spend extra $ 500 if i would go 2-3 MPH faster. afterall i already spent close to $ 5K for my Madone/404/DA 10, what an extra $ 500 going to hurt?? then why haven't i upgrade already if money isn't an issue?? b/c right now i'm wondering about swifting from Shimano to campy.

P.S: Michael Rasmussen of Robobank DID use ceramic parts on his bike these past two years so it must be working?? stay tune.

Assuming your bike is properly maintained already, there is no way new bearings are going to get you a 2 to 3 mph increase from 20-22 to 24-25mph. Mechanical resistance is a minor player when compared to the effects of rolling resistance and wind resistance... with wind being by far the most important factor.

Funny, so many times people comment on how little you gain with respect to watts and rolling resistance, yet so few mention anything about weight savings.

I guess it par for the course - they probably don't offer a lot of anything, BUT if you gotta have it ..... :)
Weight? You are kidding right?:eek:

Funny, so many times people comment on how little you gain with respect to watts and rolling resistance, yet so few mention anything about weight savings.

I guess it par for the course - they probably don't offer a lot of anything, BUT if you gotta have it ..... :)

true and thats why I'm working on losing 10lbs! looks like I'll keep my $$ and just lose some lbs and keep training...

just order ceramic bearing for my zipp 404 and should be arriivng next tuesday. i'll report the ride next wednesday. hopefully i'll go a tad faster. since i already spent almost $ 2k, what couple hundred going to hurt.

I dont like to say this but...SEARCH!!!!
this has been discussed, argued over, and generally just *****ed over for some time.

This is a pet peeve of mine: whenever someone asks a question, someone else has to say
"do a search-this has been discussed already." Ceramic bearings are new--new people are always trying new things and reporting on them. Let people answer the guy and save the keystrokes.

just order ceramic bearing for my zipp 404 and should be arriivng next tuesday. i'll report the ride next wednesday. hopefully i'll go a tad faster. since i already spent almost $ 2k, what couple hundred going to hurt.

Sounds like PT Barnum was right. . .:thumbsup:

Sure, it's real. Return on investment is pretty small though. If cost is no issue, then go for it. I'd rather spend the money on a good coach.

4 watts is not that big of a difference. It may be worth it to put your upgrade $ somewhere else.
4watts??!! 4 watts is 1% of a pro rider power output. That is significant in a race. If this were the case I think all the pros would be sporting ceramic bearings.
I figure it'd be around 0.5-1.0watts at most.

With a capital "H."

There isn't 4 watts to be saved from standard bearings, if they are well maintained and properly adjusted (and running somewhere below the Montana highway speed limit.)

Compared to some cheap industrial bearings that have been degreased and ridden on the beach? Sure, there's a benefit.

As used in bicycles, the bearings are hybrid ceramics, meaning ceramic balls running in steel races. Problem is, most of the drag in a bearing set comes from race imperfections rather than ball out-of-roundness. If this was something other than hype, they'd be pushing pure-ceramic bearings, which would be closer to worth (on a price/cost basis) the ridiculous prices they are asking. Of course, that wouldn't leave anything for them to sell us next year.

For the folks that claim to be engineers, there's a real reason we don't use full-ceramics, but that's not nearly as much fun to talk about.

I think Neuvation pulled it from the infamous FSA "study" which compared one of their crappy megaexo BB's with the ceramic version and came up with 4 watts saved at 400WATTS output. If compared to an old campy square spindle it would be less than 1 watt at the same output. But it is still a real savings and if you have the money it won't hurt anything, other than arousing envy in the less well to do.

Plus telling the guy next to you that you have ceramic bearings may just be the crushing mental blow needed to make him throw in the towel before you unleash your 250lb beer belly fueled 3 watts/kg attack. :-p

I dont like to say this but...SEARCH!!!!
this has been discussed, argued over, and generally just *****ed over for some time.


I just searched ceramic bearings and I got nothing. I would have asked the same question. Snippy I can think of a few other personalities traits............:aureola:

Ha!, you certainly have a way with words, so true........




I think Neuvation pulled it from the infamous FSA "study" which compared one of their crappy megaexo BB's with the ceramic version and came up with 4 watts saved at 400WATTS output. If compared to an old campy square spindle it would be less than 1 watt at the same output. But it is still a real savings and if you have the money it won't hurt anything, other than arousing envy in the less well to do.

Plus telling the guy next to you that you have ceramic bearings may just be the crushing mental blow needed to make him throw in the towel before you unleash your 250lb beer belly fueled 3 watts/kg attack. :-p[/QUOTE]

Tampa- yes- they do make a difference. you can get a set of bearings for a BB for <$60. Hybrid bearings work fine. If you actually do a test and spin crank arms with a BB with regular bearings and then spin one with ceramics you'll be quite surprised at the difference. They spin freely while the normal bearings are "sluggish." My skeptic wrench was very surprised too.

Wheel bearings? They make a difference too. My wife used to have a to pedal to stay up with me on a downhill. Now she doesn't have to pedal. No other factors changed. e.g. weight, clothing, wheels, etc. (She got the wheel bearings, I didn't)

after installing ceramic bearing for my precious 404 yesterdat and took 15 miles " test ride " and i was able to save couple minutes. it's smoother on the flat and even smoother down hills. for $ 150, i said go for it. soon i'll get FSA ceramic BB and pulley as well.

after installing ceramic bearing for my precious 404 yesterdat and took 15 miles " test ride " and i was able to save couple minutes. it's smoother on the flat and even smoother down hills. for $ 150, i said go for it. soon i'll get FSA ceramic BB and pulley as well.

Saved more than is available in total bearing friction. Impressive.

Just saying, maybe this isn't exactly a controlled experiment.

Consider that wheels rotate at ~250 rpm and BB's at ~90 or so

http://www.cerbec.saint-gobain.com/popups/LessFriction.asp

Not only isn't the savings there, the total isn't.

Saved more than is available in total bearing friction. Impressive.

Just saying, maybe this isn't exactly a controlled experiment.

Consider that wheels rotate at ~250 rpm and BB's at ~90 or so

http://www.cerbec.saint-gobain.com/popups/LessFriction.asp

Not only isn't the savings there, the total isn't.
guess I'll have to learn spinning 2000rpm then :)

after installing ceramic bearing for my precious 404 yesterdat and took 15 miles " test ride " and i was able to save couple minutes. it's smoother on the flat and even smoother down hills. for $ 150, i said go for it. soon i'll get FSA ceramic BB and pulley as well.
15miles and saved couple of minutes? R U sure it wasn't EPO? :eek:

They spin freely while the normal bearings are "sluggish." My skeptic wrench was very surprised too.

What you are feeling there is seal friction... there isn't any load on the bearings! The ceramic bearings have lighter seals so that people will be impressed by this... but obviously they don't seal as well... so they can wear out faster and the customer can pay some more money...

Wheel bearings? They make a difference too. My wife used to have a to pedal to stay up with me on a downhill. Now she doesn't have to pedal. No other factors changed. e.g. weight, clothing, wheels, etc. (She got the wheel bearings, I didn't)

When is anything ever the same on a descent? She is drafting you right? Huge variables there. Truly, that is one place where you would *not* be able to measure a difference.

I get the same sort of performance increase every time I buy some new bike bit, and an even bigger increase when some hot chick drives slowly by me on a climb and yells "nice butt". New parts are easier to come by though.

EPO?? i'm not a pro or anything close to being one so why would i use that " cheating " medicine. i do ride pretty fast and ride agressively. may be everytime i got a new " bling " bike/wheels, i just go a little faster. i think " psychologically " people get excited real quickly after buying new and improve parts ( may be just me?? ) and so it translated in to performance too.

so for couple hundred bucks, i said go for it since most of us spent more than that on the weekend.

Ok so I may be a bit late on this topic but I have just had fitted Ceramic Speed bearings to my Shimano BB to replace the steel ones and the difference when just turning the plastic casing with your fingers is noticeable - far easier to turn and smoother - lets just hope its the same for my legs.

I also got the Jockey wheels and even compared to the cheaper KCNC jockey wheels with ceramic bearings again they are smoother and easier to turn.

So I guess you get what you pay for and there are benefits in ceramic although probably we are still better off getting fitter and losing some weight!!

If anyone in the UK is interested contact David Jack at www.natureskiss.net

Why is it that those who haven't tried it knock it?

The only feedback that is actually any help is from those who have tried ceramic. I have not, and am interested. It seems that the prices are coming into reasonable.

So for those of you have have switched to ceramic bearings (or bottom bracket) please reply with your experiences.

If it's a few hundred dollars and the parts last longer than metal bearings (brackets) then it's definately a more tempting choice.

Why is it that those who haven't tried it knock it?

The only feedback that is actually any help is from those who have tried ceramic. I have not, and am interested. It seems that the prices are coming into reasonable.

So for those of you have have switched to ceramic bearings (or bottom bracket) please reply with your experiences.

If it's a few hundred dollars and the parts last longer than metal bearings (brackets) then it's definately a more tempting choice.
"Why is it that those who haven't tried it knock it?" I haven't tried Russian Roulette either, but I still recommend against it when asked. – TF

Michael Rasmussen of Robobank DID use ceramic parts on his bike these past two years so it must be working


Note to self: Do not use ceramic parts on time trial bike!

The only feedback that is actually any help is from those who have tried ceramic.

I guess you trust testimonials and the placebo effect more than science.

Ok so I may be a bit late on this topic but I have just had fitted Ceramic Speed bearings to my Shimano BB to replace the steel ones and the difference when just turning the plastic casing with your fingers is noticeable

Low friction high-speed seals and grease (designed for high rpm)... that is what you are feeling... and they probably don't seal as well as the seals on the steel ones... so expect them to not last as long.

Bearings need to be tested under load, and the reality is that ceramics all over your bike can save a small fraction of a percent of your power output. You certainly won't feel that... but you can always pretend that you do.

For top pros they make sense because that tiny bit might make a real difference at some point, but for the rest of us it is just something to spend money on.

Why is it that those who haven't tried it knock it?

The only feedback that is actually any help is from those who have tried ceramic.

Hmm... I wonder if this applies to being abducted by aliens as well? Let's see ...

"Why is it that those who haven't tried it knock it?

The only feedback that is actually any help is from those who have tried being abducted by aliens."

The problem with both of these is that personal opinions are not always objective - and in some cases, way, way off base. Now, in the case of ceramic bearings, the bearings themselves might be real - but the claimed "benefits" are still figments of the imagination.