I’m looking to start test riding a few top racing carbon frames and would appreciate advice to narrow the selection.

My criteria:

Comfort – Looking for a frame that doesn’t make me feel like I rode 100 miles when I actually rode 100 km. Due to some old disk problems, I need a bike that errs on the side of comfort. I still want the bottom bracket stiffness/efficiency/performance of a top echelon racing bike, but need to pass on overtly aggressive ride characteristics or geometry that might limit my mileage due to comfort issues.

Weight – I typically do lots of hills and would appreciate a lighter bike than my current steed. I’d like the final build to be sub-16 lbs in a 54cm with Record, high end but everyday wheels, pedals, and cage. Ideally, I’d like to get below 15lbs without making too many compromises on strength/longevity.

Handling – Not withstanding the first two critieria, I’d like with confident handling, especially in descending and for the handful of races I do a year. I don't want to give up too much feel for the sake of comfort (didn't like the old Trek 5200 for that reason). Not too twitchy, not too slow.

Cost is not a primary driver, but I'd like to keep the total build price around $7K.

My current set of candidates:
 BMC Pro Machine SLC 01
 Cervelo R3-SL
 Cervelo SLC-SL
 Colnago C50
 Colnago Extreme C
 Orbea Opal
 Orbea Orca
 Pinarello Paris FP Carbon
 Look 585
 Look 595
 Ridley Noah
 Scott Addict
 Time VXRS

Obviously this is kind of a laundry list and it would take me all summer to test them all. I need to winnow it down to a more manageable number.

Any perspectives on which to invest more evaluation time on than others given my emphasis on comfort within the performance class?
Any advice on other criteria I should add to my screen?
Any models that really should be added to the list (making the selection even harder)?
How did you pick ?

Any and all advice appreciated.

that's quite a list--given your criteria, I'd put the Looks up high. They are known for their comfort, though as most people will point out, tire selection is a big player there. For example, I usually run Conti4000s but ran behind in ordering and ended up grabbing some panaracers in a hurry. Totally changed the ride and made it feel like a totally different bike. checking the mail everyday for the probikekit order with some new Contis to get back to a smoother ride.

The addict is reviewed by Marcel Wust in procycling recently-he's usually a bit cranky but raved about it (I do think he mentioned the geometry was changed to make it a bit more aggressive).

I own two of the bikes on your list - Look 595 and Colnago C50 and they're both great. The C50 is not a lightweight, but while I respect your wishes to get down into the range you're talking about, weight would be the very last of my considerations in a purchase like this.

If $7k is your goal, why not consider a custom CF? Parlee, Calfee and Crumpton could all put you on a bike that would be tuned to precisely your requirements and still come into the price range you're talking with the components you want. In fact, many of the stock frames on your list are more expensive than custom options.

The various geometries among your choices are very different, have you considered that and how they might fit you and whether you could cut the list on fit requirements?

Also, I think there is a pretty broad spectrum of perceived quality among that list with the range going from pretty average to exceptional. If I were winnowing it I'd start with the ones I liked the looks of.

How did I pick? I won the C50 in a raffle and I liked the looks of the Look. Pretty simple. Of the other two CF bikes I own - Calfee and Parlee, I wanted them pretty much based on reputation and waited for the right deal to come along. I didn't ride any of them.

If $7k is your goal, why not consider a custom CF? Parlee, Calfee and Crumpton could all put you on a bike that would be tuned to precisely your requirements and still come into the price range you're talking with the components you want. In fact, many of the stock frames on your list are more expensive than custom options.



+8,000,000

Why comprimise?

Len

I dont know that you're going to find a scott addict. They did their production run and the frames they made are probably sold.

if comfort is a major factor, for what those frames sell for, have you looked into carbon-

check out http://www.ruesports.net/

this guys stuff is absolutely amazing.

Is there a primer on how to interpret the frame geometry and sizes relative to individual measurments and tastes? I have my fit measurements, but don't know exactly how to apply them to the data for each frame/size combination to get a good guesstimate of potential fit. What top tube length, seat tube angle, etc. guidelines are there?

I do know that the Addict is a bit more agressive then I would probably like and has too short a head tube for me with out a couple of spacers, but it sure is light. I also tried the Look 585 and it was quite close to a good fit in my size (54cm).

Thanks for all the replies.

Is a Cyfac frame (french).

Maybe a C4 (italian)

If you are looking for something different.

The place to start is with what you're on now.

Compare all the measurements on it against the tables provided by those MFGRs. Chances are, you're going to eliminate some of them because you will fall in between sizes.

Of course, this assumes you're happy with the fit you have. If you're not, or if you're not sure, you should talk to someone who knows what they are talking about.

Which is really why I recommended considering custom. You're talking about spending a pile of money and you have very specific wishes. And it's not to say that any one of those bikes might make you very happy.

When it comes to fitting on a bike, it's one of two cases - you know what you need or you don't. If it's the former - rock on. If it's the latter, go get some advice before dropping that kind of money on your dream bike. Might not hurt to pick up the phone and have a conversation with one of those builders I mentioned (or find a retail outlet) and have a heart to heart.

You could try talking to Wrench Science. They have a fitting system
that seems to work pretty well---the complex static measurement system
they used agreed very closely with the dynamic custom measurements
my coach came up with, and the bike I ended up with fit me very well. They
carry lots of high end bikes, including Time, Look, and Colnago. Common
parlance says that Colnago is the most comfortable and stable, and that Look
is the quickest handling. I ended up with a Time VXS, which is fabled for its
extremely smooth ride. People are probably tired of hearing me say it, but
I think it is fantastic. Very smooth, very stable and solid on the descents,
yet if feels very responsive, stiff and rigid. Mine weighs in at just about 15 pounds
with sewups and Campy Record. It did cost about $8000 with Campy Record
and two sets of wheels---shop built, with Record hubs. I think the Time is a great
all round choice, but I haven't tried the Look or Colnago. I like the look of the Look
the most, but I think the Time has the best engineering, and certainly the best
warrantee.

Terry B, how do your bikes compare? I rode a low end Calfee once and
was only mildly impressed. I also saw a Parlee once being tested by
someone else, who said it had a very nice feel. Several people have said
that they prefer the Time VXRS to Calfee and Parlee. Personally I was
afraid to order a custom carbon bike, because I know of some people
who didn't like what they got and were stuck selling them at a loss.

Hi I'm new to this forum and am looking to purchase a new bike & would appreciate any advice on possible options.

Basic criteria: handles confidently on the descents, light enough to attack on the climbs, comfortable enough for centuries, and stiff enough in the bottom bracket to ensure maximum efficiency/performance. I've had back & shoulder issues, so I need to err slightly on comfort over pure race performance.

My current short list includes:
TIME VXRS Ulteam
Specialized Roubaix SL
Moots Vamoots SL
Seven AxiomSG (from earlier threads it appear Seven are overpriced)
Lynskey L4

Obviously my first hurdle is deciding whether to go with carbon or TI. Any suggestions on the fundamental frame material question, and then which of the above, or other alternatives I should look to test?

I would also appreciate any advice on wheel sets to keep the total build weight down, but maintain a smooth ride.

Thanks.

eventhough i never ridden those listed bikes ( currently riding my precious Trek Madone ) but for my next project bike i would like to try Colnago extreme-C due to its reputation. i know it's real light and comfy. Pinarello do real purty. i guess you've to test ride each one the of them since you're going to spemd alot of money-better be safe than sorry.

The SL meets all the criteria you described.

I absolutley love my Merckx SXM carbon. It meets most of the criteria you listed - comfortable for long rides, stable yet still race worthy handling, very stiff under power - except weight. Mine came in at 17.0 pounds, built with Chorus, Neutrons, and Look Keo carbon pedals. (That's a complete ready-to-ride weight BTW). The EXM frame is about 1/2 a pound lighter but costs another $1100. I would strongly encourage you to try one out if you can. Good luck!

Of that bunch, the Parlee is my favorite for no better reason than I like riding it the most. The Look is closing fast though. I can't really explain nuances like others can - I just don't feel them. For me it's more blunt - the FD doesn't rub so it's not flexing, the bike takes off when I pedal it and I look forward to riding it. My Big 3 Criteria if you will.

The Calfee is nice too, I didn't like it for a long time and lately I have begun to appreciate it more. The C50 is a great bike, but I can't honestly say I ever get on it and say "wow." I'm glad I got it for free. :D

I'm gonna chime in for the Roubaix also. Not an owner but I rode a friends on a normal route of mine. As far as comfort and performance go it is outstanding, really impressed me. Was an 06 Roubaix Pro. The drawbacks are that I don't really like the look of compact frames and it cost as much as a nice custom. It's worth it to ride one just to experience it and add possibly give a bit of direction in your search.

I love my Time VXRS Ulteam. Its plenty light, plenty stiff and it tracks like nothing I've ever riden before. The shaping of the tubes and overall design must be seen in person to be truely appreciated.

I would also recommend a Crumpton or Parlee custom. Calfee isn't the stiffest BB around by any means but very comfortable if your back demands it. If you want comfort the BMC, Cervelos, Scott, and Extreme C can all be scratched off the list immediately. VXRS or C-50 are probably the closest to what you are looking for but at those prices there is no reason whatsoever not to go custom.

The OP states "comfort" as a must due to an injury.

Right there to me screams that the Cervelo's, BMC, and Scott get crossed off the list right away. - Too rough a ride.

A couple others have suggested the S-Works SL Roubaix. I too would suggest AT LEAST a test ride on one. Strong points are 1) Vertical Compliancy, 2) Torsional Stiffness, 3) Weight - 14.5 w/o pedals right out of the box, and 4) Price - Way inside your budget so some loot will be left over for upgrades if you so choose.

The Look bikes are also a GREAT choice, more expenssive but a great choice non the less. A 595 or 585 would suit your goals well I think.

- Hope this helps some, it is just an opinion and you really do need to test-ride and be fit on your choices for the best results. :thumbsup:

Back to Cyfac, check out the U.S. importer, they have a super frame designed pretty much for them:

http://www.cadencecycling.com/products/road/bicycles_framesets/cyfac/Cadence/

It does have your three priority (confort, weight and handling) pretty much summed up, plus it has certainly a little something "exotic".

definitely classic meets high tech.

I dont know that you're going to find a scott addict. They did their production run and the frames they made are probably sold.

My LBS has two Addicts in stock. Both are built up as super-light weight-weenie machines; I knocked one of them over just by thinking about it...and I wasn't even thinking that hard!

But I'll second (or third, or tength, or whatever number we're up to) the suggestion to go custom. Not only are Parlee, Crumpton, or Calfee's remarkable bikes, but jeez I'd feel like an idiot if I spent $7k on a bike that *wasn't* made to fit my dimensions and riding style.

Although I do get major wood thinking about a BMC SLC01...

since i don't do hard (crit) turns, I find i can fit myself on a range of TT (54-58) depending on STA, stem, etc and still ride comfortably, but i "fit" a 56 with 73 degree angles and a 100 stem. When i was rear ended, i flipped my stem for a while until my back got better--I had no irksome issues with my ride/handling, etc. So, i think you could get into a good position on most bikes--but agree the pure race stiff machine is not likely to be what you want.

For example after my rear-ending, I did SELL my Coppi KSC plane because it was too harsh for my back.

out here i routinely hit 38-45mph on hills--no issues with any bike i own in terms of comfort, handling, stability

Of the bikes you listed I vote VXRS (now VXS translink), then 585, merckx mxm (not quite as stiff--still plenty stiff). in terms of bang for buck: bianchi 928, 585, mxm, vxrs. colnagos are comfy--but not so much more so that i notice--and i do notice they weigh more and aren't as stiff--nothing to really effect ride/performance--if i didn't have a 585 or vxrs to turn around and ride I'd likely never notice it. But, no way i'd spend 7k on a bike that i'd see 5 of the next time i ride around mercer island or bainbridge island--but that is just me.

I have a Crumpton--great bike--but I don't see the need to pay/wait for that if you can fit a stock TIme or VXRS--both are pushing carbon design and both bikes are comfy. My 2005 VXRS is a Medium (56 tt) and weighs 15.5 lbs with record 10, aliante saddle, and protons.
I owned a calfee--comfy=YES, but the chain hit the FD on hills=flexy.

others i have--merckx mxm, bianchi 928, carbonissimo--stiffer than c40 or c50, c40 hp, c50 hp. I have a scott cr1 new in the box--likely will never take it out as i am selling most of my stuff. and i have a paris carbon i have yet to build up--but i imagine it will be comfy and stiff (the HT is slightly taller than the VXRS or 585)

as i have done this myself, you might want to buy 2 used in your size and keep what you like--likely far cheaper than one new. high-end bikes are often very well cared for and you can get a great deal from someone such as myself who needs the space so has to sell, someone who just upgrades every year, someone who is getting out of cycling due to injury, fatherhood, military service etc.

good luck with your choice
jim

.
I owned a calfee--comfy=YES, but the chain hit the FD on hills=flexy.
jim

My Calfee Luna Pro has the stiffer tubeset (not the stiffest) and I have never had any chainrub on the FD. I weigh up to 185lbs.

Have you looked at the Ridley Helium? Integrated seat post like the Noah you list, but it's a lighter frame that also is very stiff laterally and more compliant vertically. Pictures don't do it justice though. It's a beauty. Nicely detailed and finished. I picked up the gray and black paint scheme. I ride the largest frame they make at 61cm, and with Ksryium wheels, DA gruppo, FSA K-Wing bar and Selle Italia gel seat it weighs in at 16.7 lbs. I'm swapping seats in a few days and that will get me close to 16.2lbs. It's even priced about $250 (retail) below the Noah.

My Calfee Luna Pro has the stiffer tubeset (not the stiffest) and I have never had any chainrub on the FD. I weigh up to 185lbs.
--mine sure was--i weighed 165-168 at the time

am sure someone out there loves the Coppi KSC--it flat out hurt me after more than 2 hours. in contrast i am fine on my cinelli starship even with a carbon fiber shell saddle for 100 miles

this is all opinion, not science.

All the advice on this thread is spot on so far. For what its worth, I'm an ex pro and have ridden lots of these bikes. But, what I like may not be what you enjoy. Fide feel is a very personal thing and is influenced by many factors such as age, height, weight, injuries, fitness level, frame specs, etc. For instance, a 59cm Colnago C50 will provide a profoundly different ride than a 54m frame, etc. For me, i'm 45 now and comfort is key, not a weight weenie bike. The stability and comfort of a C50 is ideal for me, but it may not be right for you...However, all of the bikes you mentioned should use good carbon, so comfort on most should be quality. Hope this helps somewhat. Best of luck.

I own a lot of the bikes being discussed here, and have read extensively on most of the rest. Many of the lightest CF bikes are also on the stiff side. The bike that jumped off your list that's light and comfortable is the plain old 585, which I found to have a bit of flex but not to give me chain rub - a truly great stock bike that is only dissed by the big power crit types because they want max stiffness everywhere. While I think Crumpton makes a great bike in all ways, if your $7,000 budget is meaningful to you the 585 saves you some bucks. BTW, the Times below the VXRS are plenty light and may be a bit more comfortable without the ISP.

I would agree with all the comments about the 585 - a comfy bike that's extremely well made, and Look USA is a great company to work with. I'm in the same boat as you - two herniated discs make riding sometimes difficult, but I haven't had any problems with my Looks. Plus, they descend really well, and you don't see that many on the road.

Some have said the Cervelos are too harsh - that may be true of the aluminum versions, but the carbon ones are not bad. Even with my back problems, my Soloist Carbon is not too hard on me. Some claim the R3 is more compliant than the Soloist, but my test ride on an R3 wasn't significantly different than the Soloist. Besides, tires choice has a greater impact on comfort than frame stiffness.

In the end, I would agree with JimCav - at your pricepoint I would much rather buy two high-end used bikes than put all my eggs in one basket. You could probably buy a used 585 and Soloist for example, choose the one you like the best and sell the other, then use the money to get the weight down to your target.

That or custom.

but i am rethinking my decision to sell my VXRS. i like my white 585 more because it is white. decisons decisions--but as i said, go used. i'd sell both for 7k, maybe a bit less--that would be 2 record 10 bikes for the price of one. not to mention 2 great bikes--as good as anything made.

if the VXRS were any more comfy, well it would weigh 2 more lbs and have colnago on the side or such--I already think it is as comfy really as a c40 hp.

jim