I have to say, this national tradegy that occurred in Blacksburg happens on a daily basis in Iraq.

Yes, these were innocent students murdered by a lunatic, but how does it differ from what's going on in Iraq?

true dat
families with futures forever altered

How? Because in Iraq, it's happening to brown people.

They have different colors and beards and they wear different clothes and worship some Muhammad guy and they hate freedom and stuff.

I really think a lot of Americans think like that. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

I have to say, this national tradegy that occurred in Blacksburg happens on a daily basis in Iraq.

Yes, these were innocent students murdered by a lunatic, but how does it differ from what's going on in Iraq?

33 dead is considered a good day in Baghdad :thumbsup:

systemic to daily life. that is what is scary. every day is chaotic, every day is tragedy waiting to happen, every day another good person is incited with hate and revenge and peace seems further away, every day the family of US troops over there await a phone call. and the US government who lied and obfuscated, and ignored the UN went in there for no good reason other than to profit for their elite and excell their military might in the region as an intimidatory prop which will cost you for many years to come ..... yet bush and co. remain in power, were even voted in for a second term :mad:

either we have a large proportion of society that thinks life in Iraq is worth much less than our own or we really just don't care. I'm guessing a combination of the two.

spydie ... you get props for opening up this topic. I would have but seemingly I am tried and convicted because of my choice of pop icon avatar. shows the depth amongst detractors :rolleyes:

33 dead is considered a good day in Baghdad :thumbsup:

systemic to daily life. that is what is scary. every day is chaotic, every day is tragedy waiting to happen, every day another good person is incited with hate and revenge and peace seems further away, every day the family of US troops over there await a phone call. and the US government who lied and obfuscated, and ignored the UN went in there for no good reason other than to profit for their elite and excell their military might in the region as an intimidatory prop which will cost you for many years to come ..... yet bush and co. remain in power, were even voted in for a second term :mad:

either we have a large proportion of society that thinks life in Iraq is worth much less than our own or we really just don't care. I'm guessing a combination of the two.

spydie ... you get props for opening up this topic. I would have but seemingly I am tried and convicted because of my choice of pop icon avatar. shows the depth amongst detractors :rolleyes:

It isn't your avatar that exposes you, it's the unreasonable things you say.

33 dead is considered a good day in Baghdad :thumbsup:

systemic to daily life. that is what is scary. every day is chaotic, every day is tragedy waiting to happen, every day another good person is incited with hate and revenge and peace seems further away, every day the family of US troops over there await a phone call. and the US government who lied and obfuscated, and ignored the UN went in there for no good reason other than to profit for their elite and excell their military might in the region as an intimidatory prop which will cost you for many years to come ..... yet bush and co. remain in power, were even voted in for a second term :mad:

either we have a large proportion of society that thinks life in Iraq is worth much less than our own or we really just don't care. I'm guessing a combination of the two.

spydie ... you get props for opening up this topic. I would have but seemingly I am tried and convicted because of my choice of pop icon avatar. shows the depth amongst detractors :rolleyes:

The NIMBY mindset is amazing. People don't realize how our actions impact the rest of the world. But when something like this happens in America, we're in shock. It's a national tragedy...etc.

We don't tolerate it when it happens here. Yet, it's ok that we export this kind of shat to other countries in the name of democracy/terrorism...etc.

We're so special. :rolleyes:

The NIMBY mindset is amazing. People don't realize how our actions impact the rest of the world. But when something like this happens in America, we're in shock. It's a national tragedy...etc.

We don't tolerate it when it happens here. Yet, it's ok that we export this kind of shat to other countries in the name of democracy/terrorism...etc.

We're so special. :rolleyes:

The murderous mayhem occurring in Iraq today is NOT an American export, it is home grown hatred. It took place before we got there and it was institutional then.

The murderous mayhem occurring in Iraq today is NOT an American export, it is home grown hatred. It took place before we got there and it was institutional then.

Yup, keep telling youself that. We certainly didn't invade a sovereign nation... Nope, never happened... :rolleyes:

What ever helps you get through the day... :rolleyes:

It isn't your avatar that exposes you, it's the unreasonable things you say.

unreasonable is a new word for I care?

The murderous mayhem occurring in Iraq today is NOT an American export, it is home grown hatred. It took place before we got there and it was institutional then.

you may so ever minutely correct

and saying that Bush and co. put the fire out with gasoline is a gross understatement. the majority of iraqi's look back on the days of Saddam fondly becuase the reality of this so-called American freedom has now cost them over three-quarters of a million citizens.

by their actions the US government is responsible for more deaths than saddam ever was. who got hung and who got re-elected? if that seems reasonable to you then I'm sorry to say but you suck and I would support those who oppose mindsets like yours with any means they have, in fact I encourage it for the good of the world.

The murderous mayhem occurring in Iraq today is NOT an American export, it is home grown hatred. It took place before we got there and it was institutional then.
"The murderous mayhem occurring in Iraq today is NOT an American export, it is home grown hatred" ...that has been transferred onto the USA due to it's invasion and occupation of that country. The Mayhem was in no way comparable to what is happening over there now. Then, a despot dictator killing isolated groups, now civil war. "It took place before we got there " no it wasn't, the hatred was there but not the killing.

Shame about the shooting truely tragic however more people will be killed by drunk drivers today in the US, wheres the outrage/soul searching about that?

Please explain how a madman going into a school is the same as ..... oh wait you are correct. Citizens killing each other for no apparent reason. I get it. I think the Iraqi people need Saddam back so he can decide who lives and who dies.

I think the Iraqi people need Saddam back so he can decide who lives and who dies.

he was certainly more compassionate and less harmful than Bush and the Oil Co.'s have proven to be.

I'm not a fan of Saddam in the least, so goes without saying what I think of the neocons and their despotic actions :mad:

Yeah he was a real bleeding heart. Say what purpose do you suppose those rape rooms were used for?

Do you really want me to answer this? In Iraq, the killing is done out of ideology supported by masses of people--- there is no ideology behind the VT shootings. In other words, the violence in Iraq is not "senseless."


I have to say, this national tradegy that occurred in Blacksburg happens on a daily basis in Iraq.

Yes, these were innocent students murdered by a lunatic, but how does it differ from what's going on in Iraq?

Do you really want me to answer this? In Iraq, the killing is done out of ideology supported by masses of people--- there is no ideology behind the VT shootings. In other words, the violence in Iraq is not "senseless."

Wow, that's pretty pathetic justification.

People, real people, innocent people, are being killed in Iraq by the hundreds on a daily basis, just like what happened at Virginia Tech. This happens here and it's a national tragedy, yet it happens in Iraq on a daily basis and they're being "ideological???" I'm sure the innocent people being killed in Iraq will be happy to hear they're dyin' for a good reason??? Good one!

Yeah, they're dyin' in Iraq for an "ideology," the neocon ideology which brought us there in the first place. You recall the Bush Doctrine don't ya?

Perspective is a wonderful thing...

Americans would never tolerate what we've exported to Iraq.

What other justification is there? Do you agree, or not? I am not saying that it is "right"- but how else do you suppose that parents of fallen US soldiers deal with this? We have wrapped it all up in the war on terror--- and tell me that is not ideological. Or that we are bringing freedom to Iraqis... How else do people create meaning for this? You don't think "insurgents" are not wrapping up the "collateral damage" as the price necessary to rid the country of evil foreign aggressors? That is ideological. The Bush doctrine is ideological.

Yet Americans do tolerate it. They re-elected Bush. As long as it is "over there" and not on US soil, it well-tolerated, if not condoned.

Wow, that's pretty pathetic justification.

People, real people, innocent people, are being killed in Iraq by the hundreds on a daily basis, just like what happened at Virginia Tech. This happens here and it's a national tragedy, yet it happens in Iraq on a daily basis and they're being "ideological???" I'm sure the innocent people being killed in Iraq will be happy to hear they're dyin' for a good reason??? Good one!

Yeah, they're dyin' in Iraq for an "ideology," the neocon ideology which brought us there in the first place. You recall the Bush Doctrine don't ya?

Perspective is a wonderful thing...

Americans would never tolerate what we've exported to Iraq.

the majority of iraqi's look back on the days of Saddam fondly becuase the reality of this so-called American freedom has now cost them over three-quarters of a million citizens.


How do you know that? Intuition?

You bombastic polemics are as tiring as they are repetative.

you may so ever minutely correct

and saying that Bush and co. put the fire out with gasoline is a gross understatement. the majority of iraqi's look back on the days of Saddam fondly becuase the reality of this so-called American freedom has now cost them over three-quarters of a million citizens.

by their actions the US government is responsible for more deaths than saddam ever was. who got hung and who got re-elected? if that seems reasonable to you then I'm sorry to say but you suck and I would support those who oppose mindsets like yours with any means they have, in fact I encourage it for the good of the world.

We didn't go there to put that fire out. We went there in our own national interests and to fight the fires that were on an escalating path of destruction to the US. The opportunity presented to the people of Iraq is coincidental to the reasons behind the invasion. That the character of the people of the ME is proving to be less civilized and more murderous than was thought is further justification for taking action to change the course that character can take in manifesting itself. None of the fighting and none of the deaths today are due to American agression. Rather it is due to the afore mentioned character of the nationals and regional natives and the actions they take. You and Che can stick your manefestos. :)

I saw this thread last night and was so appalled I didn't respond.

No one is disputing that Iraq is not a tragedy and that dozens of innocent people aren't gunned down every day. But your analogy is nevertheless lost on me.

Why is it lost on you, JT? Do you have a reason?

Still having trouble with the thread principle huh? LOL!!!

The main difference is that most of the time in iraq, the people dying are soldiers or iraqi militant people, People who know that they are fighting and run the risk of being killed.
The people in the school were there to get an education.

The main difference is that most of the time in iraq, the people dying are soldiers or iraqi militant people, People who know that they are fighting and run the risk of being killed.

Seriously, how incredibly ignorant do you have to be to say something like that?

Unreal.

I have to say, this national tradegy that occurred in Blacksburg happens on a daily basis in Iraq.

Yes, these were innocent students murdered by a lunatic, but how does it differ from what's going on in Iraq?

Not perspective Spidy, just shows that you cannot help but exploit these deaths to push your political agenda.

Very low indeed.

I saw this thread last night and was so appalled I didn't respond.

No one is disputing that Iraq is not a tragedy and that dozens of innocent people aren't gunned down every day. But your analogy is nevertheless lost on me.

Why is this lost on you? How is this any different from what's going on in Iraq on a daily basis? So, when it happens over there it's just numbers, but when it happens here it's real?

The main difference is that most of the time in iraq, the people dying are soldiers or iraqi militant people, People who know that they are fighting and run the risk of being killed.
The people in the school were there to get an education.

Really, is that what you tell yourself?

Geez, these justifications are just getting better and better...:rolleyes:

So, when a bomb blows up in a square or a market, the people who die are all militia or civilians?

The main difference is that most of the time in iraq, the people dying are soldiers or iraqi militant people, People who know that they are fighting and run the risk of being killed.
The people in the school were there to get an education.

ignorant and just plain wrong

like the people shopping when a bomb goes off in the market
or the people rounded up by death squads due to their ethnicity
or being pulled over at a makeshift road blocks driving to and from work who are shot by their ethnicity
or just living day to day when mortar rounds come from over the river

do you actually watch the news and then just reinterpret it or do you just make this stuff up out of the ethers?

spyderman's right. This stuff happens on a daily basis in Iraq, and it's ten times worse. The number of young people we've lost in Iraq is equal to over 100 times the Virginia Tech shootings. 100 times. That doesn't even begin to count the Iraqi deaths, which number in the hundreds of thousands.

Was it worth it? To get rid of ONE dictator. And now, to place ourselves in the position of staying and continuing the deaths, or leave and risk seeing an Islamic state in Iraq.

I know you cons hate the facts, but this is your handiwork.

What other justification is there? Do you agree, or not? I am not saying that it is "right"- but how else do you suppose that parents of fallen US soldiers deal with this? We have wrapped it all up in the war on terror--- and tell me that is not ideological. Or that we are bringing freedom to Iraqis... How else do people create meaning for this? You don't think "insurgents" are not wrapping up the "collateral damage" as the price necessary to rid the country of evil foreign aggressors? That is ideological. The Bush doctrine is ideological.

Yet Americans do tolerate it. They re-elected Bush. As long as it is "over there" and not on US soil, it well-tolerated, if not condoned.

Yes, the NIMBY factor is strong. The hypocrisy is astounding. Every day in Iraq is like what happened at Virginia Tech. Every single day. This is why I started this thread.

There is no justification. I don't know how parents of the fallen soldiers are dealing with their losses. How do the Iraqi parents deal with the deaths of their children? I don't know how the parents of the fallen VT students are dealing with their loss either? It's incomprehensible.

The biggest difference is there was no way of stopping or preventing what happened at Virginia Tech. The invasion of Iraq was a choice. We invaded Iraq based on the failed Bush Doctrine. We brought this daily horror to the innocent Iraqi citizens. We got a taste of it here and we don't like it, so it's a national tragedy?

Yes, the NIMBY factor is strong. The hypocrisy is astounding. Every day in Iraq is like what happened at Virginia Tech. Every single day. This is why I started this thread.

There is no justification. I don't know how parents of the fallen soldiers are dealing with their losses. How do the Iraqi parents deal with the deaths of their children? I don't know how the parents of the fallen VT students are dealing with their loss either? It's incomprehensible.

The biggest difference is there was no way of stopping or preventing what happened at Virginia Tech. The invasion of Iraq was a choice. We invaded Iraq based on the failed Bush Doctrine. We brought this daily horror to the innocent Iraqi citizens. We got a taste of it here and we don't like it, so it's a national tragedy? http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/04/17/afghanistan.blast.reut/index.html

9 people killed today in Afghanistan...including 4 school kids

This was buried on the World section of CNN's site. Pretty slow day so far for deaths, but you get the point.

Meanwhile in Iraq...a professor is offed and 20 Iraqi security men executed:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/17/iraq.main/index.html

How is it any different for college students to be trapped in a building and gunned down by a 23 year old peer, than to be caught in the cross fire of a multi-year factional military conflict?

I guess I'd have to ask the opposite: why is it similar, other than being tragic and involving death?

I guess we could also say "yes, but children starve to death every day in Africa" too. But I'm not sure where that takes the dialogue, other than seeking yet a new opportunity to complain about the Iraq war.

I saw this thread last night and was so appalled I didn't respond.

No one is disputing that Iraq is not a tragedy and that dozens of innocent people aren't gunned down every day.

actually, a lot of people are.

How is it any different for college students to be trapped in a building and gunned down by a 23 year old peer, than to be caught in the cross fire of a multi-year factional military conflict?

I guess I'd have to ask the opposite: why is it similar, other than being tragic and involving death?

I guess we could also say "yes, but children starve to death every day in Africa" too. But I'm not sure where that takes the dialogue, other than seeking yet a new opportunity to complain about the Iraq war.

gunmen have gone into Iraqi schools as well, and killed everyone inside.

just like this. the motives may be different. the reasons may be different. but the actual act, of innocent people being killed, is the same. but as someone said, 33 people dead in Iraq in a day is a good day. Imagine this country, if this kind of thing was happening every single day, would you take seriously anyone who would tell you that things were getting better, that this was a good sign?

gunmen have gone into Iraqi schools as well, and killed everyone inside.

just like this. the motives may be different. the reasons may be different. but the actual act, of innocent people being killed, is the same. but as someone said, 33 people dead in Iraq in a day is a good day. Imagine this country, if this kind of thing was happening every single day, would you take seriously anyone who would tell you that things were getting better, that this was a good sign?

Seems to me that it goes against human nature to react to any death equally. I will get slammed by the self-righteous PC left for saying that, but if a close family member, or other loved one dies I will react differently and feel differently than if it is someone I only slightly know, and again if that person is someone I feel some kinship, towards like if they were from my home town or even country, they will mean more to me that someone from another continent.

All lives are not of equal subjective value. Anyone who says this is not true is profoundly dishonest.

We are only human after all......

actually, a lot of people are.


so you're all for the killing of innocent people...that's a beautiful thought.
until its you on the barrel of the gun, or your kids simply trying to get to school...I'm sure your tune would change without thought. midget.

How is it any different for college students to be trapped in a building and gunned down by a 23 year old peer, than to be caught in the cross fire of a multi-year factional military conflict?

I guess I'd have to ask the opposite: why is it similar, other than being tragic and involving death?

I guess we could also say "yes, but children starve to death every day in Africa" too. But I'm not sure where that takes the dialogue, other than seeking yet a new opportunity to complain about the Iraq war.

Do you think an Iraqi life is any less valuable than an American life? If not then why is what's happening in Iraq acceptable or justifiable?

Many students and professors have been targeted and bombed in Iraq. Street markets are blown up on a daily basis. Hundreds of innocent people, civilians, are killed on a daily basis in Iraq. But, when we have one lone gunman cut loose on a university here in America it's a national tragedy? The needless slaughter of innocents may have different reasons, but still the same none the less.

Yes, it has been going on for years... but have we become so desensitized to it that it's just become a number?

Hey it looks like you finally got it! Congrats! I knew you could do it :)

It's sentiments like that make make all Americans look stupid and foolish.

Yeah this is a bad war. Here are some facts.

• More than three million men fought in the war.
• In two days on the banks of the Tigris River, more Iraqis fell than in all previous Iraqi wars combined.
• During one battle, 12,401 men were killed, missing or wounded; double the casualties of D-Day. With a total of 23,000 casualties, it was the bloodiest single day of the war.
• 7,000 Iraqis fell in 20 minutes in the battle for Takrit.
• Two percent of the population—more than 620,000—died in the Iraqi War.

Yeah this is a bad war. Here are some facts.

• More than three million men fought in the war.
• In two days on the banks of the Tigris River, more Iraqis fell than in all previous Iraqi wars combined.
• During one battle, 12,401 men were killed, missing or wounded; double the casualties of D-Day. With a total of 23,000 casualties, it was the bloodiest single day of the war.
• 7,000 Iraqis fell in 20 minutes in the battle for Takrit.
• Two percent of the population—more than 620,000—died in the Iraqi War.

???Nice drive-bye, but what's your point...besides your head?

Freedom cost a lot in life and blood.

It's sentiments like that make make all Americans look stupid and foolish.


its people with your mental capacity that makes Americans look stupid and foolish.

(you set it up, I simply knocked it out of the park)

Yeah that was a good one. You really got me there. I'm happy such simple things make you happy.

so you're all for the killing of innocent people...that's a beautiful thought.
until its you on the barrel of the gun, or your kids simply trying to get to school...I'm sure your tune would change without thought. midget.

i don't think we're talking about the same thing here. jaytee says that no ones' disputing that Iraq isn't a tragedy. when in fact, a lot of people are, including people on this board. "it's getting better, why don't we hear about all the good things happening, better than under Saddam, it's only a small part of the country that's in turmoil", etc., etc.

but an incident like this in our own country, an isolated incident that pales in comparison to what's happening daily in iraq, and they're all "what a senseless tragedy, how horrible, it's an atrocity" etc.

Don't be ridiculous. Of course I don't. Nor am I suggesting that I find anything about the American occupation of Iraq and the slaughter there to be "acceptable" or "justifiable."

I was just saying that your analogy didn't work. No need to attribute hateful or insensitive thoughts to me about the Iraq war just because I don't see these as the "same."

There are a lot of tragic things that happen every day that I don't think is the "same." I don't think deforestation is the same as child molesting. Just because I don't buy your "the same thing" position doesn't mean I'm clueless about the tragic events in Iraq.

Yeah that was a good one. You really got me there. I'm happy such simple things make you happy.


but the fact remains, you have yet to prove me wrong in that regard.

Don't be ridiculous. Of course I don't. Nor am I suggesting that I find anything about the American occupation of Iraq and the slaughter there to be "acceptable" or "justifiable."

I was just saying that your analogy didn't work. No need to attribute hateful or insensitive thoughts to me about the Iraq war just because I don't see these as the "same."

There are a lot of tragic things that happen every day that I don't think is the "same." I don't think deforestation is the same as child molesting. Just because I don't buy your "the same thing" position doesn't mean I'm clueless about the tragic events in Iraq.

Sorry, not trying to be hateful. Perhaps my comments are a bit strong & insensitive, but I can't stand the hypocrisy this country exhibits. (I knew I should have changed the phrase "If not" to "Of course not...")

I don't even see it as analogous. The slaughter of innocents is the just that, regardless of rational or ideology. When I saw the last set of numbers by Johns Hopkins that put the Iraqi death toll between 600-900,000, I almost lost my lunch. We brought that horror to Iraq and now we can't even provide a legitimate or static reason why..

i don't think we're talking about the same thing here. jaytee says that no ones' disputing that Iraq isn't a tragedy. when in fact, a lot of people are, including people on this board. "it's getting better, why don't we hear about all the good things happening, better than under Saddam, it's only a small part of the country that's in turmoil", etc., etc.

but an incident like this in our own country, an isolated incident that pales in comparison to what's happening daily in iraq, and they're all "what a senseless tragedy, how horrible, it's an atrocity" etc.


numb and insensitive to violence when its not in their "back yard". the second it is we're all amazed that it actually happens in the world...then we all forget about 30 second later while we tune into American Idol. Spyder is right when he laments that fact that Iraq is exponentially worse in its daily death toll in terms of personal trauma and the overreaching effects of mass murder. Many in this country can't seem to grasp the fact that our government set that snowball in motion however...or accept the true consequences of their vote. its rather pathetic and makes me sad to really think about...

numb and insensitive to violence when its not in their "back yard". the second it is we're all amazed that it actually happens in the world...then we all forget about 30 second later while we tune into American Idol. Spyder is right when he laments that fact that Iraq is exponentially worse in its daily death toll in terms of personal trauma and the overreaching effects of mass murder. Many in this country can't seem to grasp the fact that our government set that snowball in motion however...or accept the true consequences of their vote. its rather pathetic and makes me sad to really think about...

That's what makes you and rufus so valuable, cut right through the haze and accept the blame for the world's shortcomings. I guess it's all about priorities.

That's what makes you and rufus so valuable, cut right through the haze and accept the blame for the world's shortcomings. I guess it's all about priorities.

At least someone is willing to take some blame. That has been pretty rare for the last seven years.

At least someone is willing to take some blame. That has been pretty rare for the last seven years.

No it hasn't. These guys here have blamed Bush for everything from chicken pox to the fall of Rome. You haven't been paying attention.

spydie ... you get props for opening up this topic. I would have but seemingly I am tried and convicted because of my choice of pop icon avatar. shows the depth amongst detractors :rolleyes:

Whoa...just saw this and I think it was directed at me. Just to clear this up: I said your avatar was ironic because it depicts someone who was an advocate of guerilla warfare (with guns!) for the liberation of people from what he felt was oppressive governments. This right after you said "amen" to another comment based on "this bizarro people's revolution argument....." against the US 2nd amendment.

If it is my comment you speak of, I fail to see how it "tried and convicted" you or has anything to do with this thread. Sorry, I just saw a conflict between comments and avatar in that case, nothing further....otherwise I think we would agree on most things.

That's what makes you and rufus so valuable, cut right through the haze and accept the blame for the world's shortcomings. I guess it's all about priorities.

Indeed, self flagellation as personal vice.

That's what makes you and rufus so valuable, cut right through the haze and accept the blame for the world's shortcomings. I guess it's all about priorities.


the neocon agenda is a "world shortcoming"....its about freakin' time.