I have been trying to get in contact with Troy at Ligero wheels for the past week--both by phone and email. Is he out of town or just really busy, anyone know? It seems weird because in the past he was always very quick with a response.

Looks like he's been sick according to a thread (http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=29940) at weight weenies.

he posted today on Serotta. Wow, the web makes the world small.

I spoke to him on the phone either yesterday or the day before, I forget. He sounded fine and was still cranking out wheels. That was around 2:30pm.

Troy has been sick and is swamped with work. His wheels are in great demand, and his biz is a one man show. He's a stand up guy.

Spoke to him yesterday about my wheel build and he has been sick off and on for the past few months. He is also planning on moving to a new facility soon. He sounded very busy but trying to catch up with all of his orders.

I belive hes been a very very busy wheel builder. Spoke to him Friday I guess it was. He seems like hes so busy its making it a bit hard to keep being a one man show.

That said I hope my wheels get here today ;)

He's been out riding. Wanted to put some miles on his new Ksyriums

Glad to hear he is okay. I think this time the guy has really overextended himself. He has the right intentions and means well, but he can't seem to make his commitments. I ordered something near the beginin of March with the expectation of three weeks. Its still not here and I can not get a hold of him either. He does a good job, but he needs to have better communication on when things will be completed.

Glad to hear he is okay. I think this time the guy has really overextended himself. He has the right intentions and means well, but he can't seem to make his commitments. I ordered something near the beginin of March with the expectation of three weeks. Its still not here and I can not get a hold of him either. He does a good job, but he needs to have better communication on when things will be completed.

Well, he did spend time in a hospital, and his list of customers is very long. Try harder. Call. Others have talked to him on the phone recently. He's busy. You can't give up after just a few tries.

He makes his commitments, and to imply otherwise is a misstatement of facts.

I got a hold of him. Thanks everyone.

He has done right by me on another wheelset that I received a month or so ago.

I had been to contact him so that I could make a make a change on an additional order I placed a while back, before it was too late, if possible. Everything is well. I was told wheels, with the desired changes will be built next week.

I ordered some wheels from him many months ago, as did a friend. After lots of promises, statements of build dates, parts were coming in, more weeks passing, etc adding up to months, I gave up. He couldn't deliver, and I was very disappointed. Both a waste of my time and the friend that I referred to him got the same treatment. He was a nice guy to chat with, but should be honest and up front if he's overwhelmed, sick, or whatever. Communication is critical, small business or otherwise, and he doesn't seem to have that part of running a business down. He has a website, an answering machine etc...no reason he can't be more upfront about his status of things.

Mark

I ordered some wheels from him many months ago, as did a friend. After lots of promises, statements of build dates, parts were coming in, more weeks passing, etc adding up to months, I gave up. He couldn't deliver, and I was very disappointed. Both a waste of my time and the friend that I referred to him got the same treatment. He was a nice guy to chat with, but should be honest and up front if he's overwhelmed, sick, or whatever. Communication is critical, small business or otherwise, and he doesn't seem to have that part of running a business down. He has a website, an answering machine etc...no reason he can't be more upfront about his status of things.

Mark

And you absolutely know, 'cuz you know what his everyday experience is like, right? No? Wow. How about that.

There is a reason that Troy is so busy: many people want him to build their wheels. It's that simple. Like a lot of custom frame manufacturers, delivery times can vary. It's hilarious when people want to apply some standard, generic business model to biz's like this. Not everything conforms to what is taught in Econ101 or BusinessMangement102.

Try buying a Dean and see what the promised delivery time verses actual delivery time. I think you will find the gap to be months. The funny thing is most people once the get their wheels from Troy or their frame from Dean love them! I bought my Harley when the wait list was a year. Was it worth it? Forrest will probably disagree but I say yes!

I am sad that there needed to be a thread like this. I am really sorry that it is taking so long for me to get some peoples wheels done and not others. I am not trying to scam anyone.

I am a one man operation. I have tried to hire someone to help part time and so far that was a disaster, everything he shipped was sent to the wrong person. I have offered local college student/cyclist to work for me part time but so far most have told me that the time I wanted them there would cut into there riding time.

I can build a pair of wheels from start to finish in 2hrs, which some people consider very good. So assuming I do not get interrupted and can just work I should be able to build 3 to 4 pairs of wheels a day. Only problem is I can't just build wheels.

I am trying not to complain about success but here is what my days are like now.

This week I have taken 38 phone calls but received 80! Usually after getting off the phone with someone I have 3 calls that I missed while talking to them. Other times I just have my hands full and can't put it down to answer the phone. The average call takes 15 minutes, some are longer and some are less. So this week I have spent almost 10 hours on the phone.

For emails, I have received almost a hundred emails this week of which I have answered around 5 of them. The average email takes me 10 minutes to respond to. I think about what type of wheel they are wanting, what spoke count is good for them and then explain why I am suggesting what I am. This week because of heavy phone time I have only spent around a hour on emails.

Around 4 to 4:30 I need to start putting boxes together and folding the inserts that holds the wheels inside the box. It takes me 5 minutes per pair of wheels to box them and tape up the box.

That is what my day consists of. So on average I spend 3 hours on the phone, 1 hour on email and then another hour doing small things like boxes and calling suppliers. So if I start working between 8 and 9 in the morning I have around 3 hours to build wheels that I want to get out that day.

One thing that I have been doing in effort to get more done is, one night a week I build wheels until around midnight and also two nights a week I will answer emails until about 1am.

Another problem I have is dealing with suppliers. I do not have the money to keep enough hubs and rims in stock to satisfy orders so I have to constantly order from suppliers. The components I am dealing with are not built in huge numbers so sometimes supply can be very low. One of the problems is when I do order things most suppliers will always tell you that they have it in stock. It is not until you get a box do you know if they actually did. I will order 8 pairs of White Industries hubs anodized black and be told everything is in stock but then when I get my order I will get 7 front and 2 rears. When Reynolds started selling rims I ordered 4 pairs and was told that they were going out that day. I received the rims 3.5 weeks later and was told on 4 separate occasions that "The rims are being drilled today, being shipped out tomorrow and you will have them by the end of the week". When they tell me that I call the customer and tell them that I will have there rims at the end of the week but then they don't show up and I look like the liar.

Some suppliers are great and are always straight forward with me but it the ones that are not that me look bad. There is only so many times I can tell a customer that I will have there stuff at the end of the week and then not give them anything.

So here is what I will be doing to hopefully make the situation better. I will no longer be taking international orders, I will finish the ones that I have already but will not be taking any more. I will not be offering the custom anodizing anymore. I can never get them in the time I am told it will take and people get tired of hearing that I will have them in a few days and then I don't get anything. I will be raising prices. There will be a new website very soon that will be very information rich. There will no longer be 3 build suggestions, it will have almost every combo I build and what it would be good for. Everything will be a quoted at a 6 weeks, I have gotten into trouble to many times by saying I would try to get someones wheels to them by a certain date.

I am open to suggestions on what may help things.



One last thing and this has nothing to do with wheels. I don't know how to say this without maybe offending someone. I have had people contact me asking why I have not been posting on the forums anymore. One reason is I don't have that much extra time anymore but the main reason is some people are taking it as I am not working. I visit all of the forums almost daily when I am eating lunch, mouse in one hand sandwich in the other. I see many things I would like to respond to but don't because when I do I get a email saying since I am taking time to post does this mean that I am caught up and there wheels are done. I have received PM's saying I should spend less time on the forums and more time building wheels, that was after someone noticed my screen name as one of the people on line. Problem with that is, I was not online anymore I had just not closed the browser from when I went on at 8am that morning. I know that forums and the internet has made the world a much smaller place. I like talking bikes on the forums and hope someday to be able to be able to do that again.

Thanks for the update, Troy. I can only imagine how busy you've been lately. I'm glad to hear that I ordered my wheels (red anodized H1 w/ Niob30 & reb nips) in time. Considering it was at least a four week wait on the anodizing, I can see why it'd be better to not offer that option. Hopefully you can find a student that has time to help out. You might even want to expand out to non-cyclists. You don't need to be a cyclist to box up wheels and run inventory. Keep up the good work!

<-- Anxiously awaiting his wheels. It'll be like Christmas when they arrive. :)

Good post Troy and after talking with you several times I am in full agreement with your post.

One thing I was going to suggest to you after recieving your final invoice is to raise your prices. Seriously, its supply and demand. Your in huge demand, having problems due to growing so fast unexpectedly, its time to raise your prices just dont go overboard ;)

I would have paid more.


Second if anything you need a assistant. Even if that person just takes calls with general information from a spec sheet you design for them to answer questions etc. Then they can be your front face and hopefully at least cut the need to talk to you calls down by 50% or so. Updating the website with more builds etc might also help.

For me I just didnt know what I wanted until I talked to you on the phone, described what I was doing and what I wanted. More info on the web might have helped but not sure. I guess if you do build specs and include rider weight limits and use that would cut a lot of calls down.


It just sounds like growing fast which is good but also hard for small one man shop. And your suppliers are horrible, thats a totally different problem to fix there.


My two cents ;)


Oh and anyone that complains about you being on line and posting etc rather than building wheels, wow send them their money back and tell them to go somewhere else.

I had to wait for right at a year for an item I ordered last year. The wait stunk, but I knew it when I ordered it and was very happy when I got it. Its the give it to me now generation that just cant deal with waiting. They will learn or go somewhere else.

Geesh, sorry I posted this thread Troy.

I have no complaints. Like I said before, Troy built a great wheelset for me recently. My main concern was just making the change to the order in time so that it did not cause any significant problems.

Troy, by the way, was very helpful to me yesterday on the phone. I would recommend him.

Its the give it to me now generation that just cant deal with waiting. They will learn or go somewhere else.

I agree with you on the most part but not the above. I don't know about other's experience but this is mine..

1. Called Troy and placed an order. I was told that the wait will be 6 weeks. Fine, I will have my wheels by April, just when the weather will get better here in the NE, so I thought. I was impressed that Troy was such a super nice guy to deal with. I am sure he's a great friend for those who know him personally.

2. Called 6 weeks later to remind Troy that I owe him money. He send me an invoice a day later and I paid in full promptly (3/29).

3. Called a week later and was told that I will have my new wheels to ride on NEXT weekend.

4. One week past, no wheels, no explanation so I called again. Once again, I was told that I will have my wheels for the NEXT weekend.

5. One week past, no wheels, no explanation so I called again. I got to his voice mail. No surprise, I am sure Troy is overwhelmed with work.

6. I called this Monday and found out that he was sick. He still sounded very sick while on the phone. I felt really bad for bothering him. He promised that I will have my wheels this weekend for real. Knowing that he's still sick, I told him to take care of his health first and my wheels second. If there are further delays, just drop me a note.

7. Now, I'm writing this. Still waiting on my wheels or a note of further delay.

I have always had pleasant conversations with Troy the few time I talked with him on the phone. He seem to be an honest guy and always try his best to satisfy his customers' needs. From a customer's point of view, the wait is bad but the broken promises are worse. I totally understand Troy's situation and believe that he did not broke his promises on purpose. However, you can't blame the paying customers for getting a bit frustrated after multiple broken promises. BTW, the wheels I ordered only use standard parts and Troy never mentioned to me that he had problem getting them on time.

Now, it gets me thinking. How long the wait will be if I send the wheels back to Troy for repair? Well, I hope Troy lived up to his reputation and build me a bomb proof pair :) Argh!! Still waiting..

And you absolutely know, 'cuz you know what his everyday experience is like, right? No? Wow. How about that.

There is a reason that Troy is so busy: many people want him to build their wheels. It's that simple. Like a lot of custom frame manufacturers, delivery times can vary. It's hilarious when people want to apply some standard, generic business model to biz's like this. Not everything conforms to what is taught in Econ101 or BusinessMangement102.

Actually, I do. I run a small business and I'm the only employee. But I don't make promises I can't keep and I keep people posted on status of things. And I've had clients in the cycling and related industries...those that were honest and stayed in good communication thrived...those that weren't didn't. When Troy accepted my order, it was with a large amount of time..nothing was expected immediately. But it didn't matter. Like I said, he's a nice guy and I wish him well. But he needs to learn how to run and behave like a business and I hope he does as the rumor is that he builds a nice product. Unfortunately I never got it, and I waited a long time with many broken promises.

I had a custom frame built, and it too took a long time. But almost exactly the amount of time that i was quoted in the first place. No missed expectations or plans. When Troy told me my delivery date I almost sold my wheels but fortunately didn't.

When I do work for free, people wait until the schedule is clear. But when paying for a service, proper treatment is expected and deserved. If he's too busy, don't take the jobs...it's that simple.

Mark

And I need to emphasize that in talking with Troy..he's a nice guy. He obviously builds a good product, so my reply wasn't meant as a bashing. It's merely a replay of what did in fact happen and seems to be happening to brainsan right now. The industry needs good people that build good products, and I hope he gets the help that he sorely needs to get his business under control. If he was local to me, I'd be in there helping him get his operations in order myself.

I still drool looking at the pics of his wheels that others received, and wish I had them. For now my Mavic's keep rolling, but someday do hope to get a nice set of custom wheels.

Cheers,

Mark

For emails, I have received almost a hundred emails this week of which I have answered around 5 of them. This week because of heavy phone time I have only spent around a hour on emails.

True...Seems like custom wheelbuilders are in very high demand right now. I wrote emails to three other well known builders two weeks ago for a build and to his (Troy) credit, he was the only one who even responded (the next day I might add and still nothing from the others). However, I guess this week has been a little hectic for him. I wrote back asking his PayPal info so I can send him the payment so he can get started and nothing yet. Anybody have it on hand by chance? PM me...

True...Seems like custom wheelbuilders are in very high demand right now. I wrote emails to three other well known builders two weeks ago for a build and to his (Troy) credit, he was the only one who even responded (the next day I might add and still nothing from the others). However, I guess this week has been a little hectic for him. I wrote back asking his PayPal info so I can send him the payment so he can get started and nothing yet. Anybody have it on hand by chance? PM me...

I believe that he prefers to send an invoice first before payment.

Troy, unfortunatley being successful at what you like doing can take the pleasure out of it by making it become work instead of fun, Don't worry, it will get better. Just don't sacrifice the quality of your work to satisfy the time needs of your orders.

If you know your neighbors, see if their kids need a job. Chances are you'll already have an idea if they're reliable or not. Also, contact the guidance counselor at your local high school or the local college. Interviewing can be a pain and time consuming, but its an investment in time that will pay off in the long run for you.

If you're having that many supply and time issues, don't be afraid to tell people that there is a 2+ month wait right now due to the time of year and number of orders. If your reputation is maintained, it doesn't matter if you lose a few orders to other builders. You will continue to get new orders.

Hang in there

I believe that he prefers to send an invoice first before payment.

:thumbsup:

Troy,

Did you get my PM about being willing to help build wheels?

Hey, Troy.

If you cut me a good special deal on components, I'm willing to build the wheels for
all your Norwegian customers (living in Norway). No labor cost attached. :D

Troy-

Keep up the good work!!!! The wait was well worth it!!!

He never emailed me back and when I did talk to him on the phone, he steered me away from the build I wanted (3x, 32h, white hubs, IRD hoops) and towards some whack-a-doo, heavy build...

I sourced my parts, ordered them and am having them built locally...

Ha ha :)

I'm making a 36h box rim set for myselves right now.
Is that going in the 'wrong' direction or not :p

Here's what probably 60% (might have been higher) of
the Paris-Roubaix riders were sporting.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/roubaix_bikes3/IMG_0075.jpg

If it's not too much of a handicap for them, it's probably OK
for most others too. But OK. These are not to be my racing
day pair of wheels, but it's not racing day every day, and I
like a good set of wheels for every occasion.
.
.
And so do my customers :wink5:

He never emailed me back and when I did talk to him on the phone, he steered me away from the build I wanted (3x, 32h, white hubs, IRD hoops) and towards some whack-a-doo, heavy build...

I sourced my parts, ordered them and am having them built locally...


That seems odd. Are you a big guy or something? I weigh 185 and the build he recommended was in the 1365g or so. With White hubs it would have been not much more.

I have enjoyed working with Troy overall. His knows his stuff and the prices are pretty darn good. I don't mind waiting for a build that is well done. Too bad your experience was bad. I have two main guys that I would trust to build anything for me; Ligero is one and Mike Curiak is the other. I like ligero because he can build up wheels with more than parts from mainly DT's and Zipp's catalogs.

It is good that you have someone local that you trust. Quality wheelbuilders around here, who I admittedly have only limited experience with are quite a bit more money. And I doubt that they have the volume of experience of those two guys.

Now, it gets me thinking. How long the wait will be if I send the wheels back to Troy for repair?

I had the exact same experience in last fall. I didn't want to say anything since I thought that maybe I was an exception.

When I first contacted Troy in August, I was told 2 week delivery that turned into 12 weeks. Money had been paid but no wheels, poor communication. There's nothing worse than sending $500 to a guy that doesn't return your calls. At 6 weeks, I had to accept a rim change since original choice couldn't be had. At 12 weeks, one wheel (front) only, no rear, showed up with wrong color spokes. When I finally got both wheels and got to ride them, a spoke broke at 400 mile mark either due to my big butt or the light rim selection, poor construction, or combination of all three. I decided that I couldn't bear the pain of the shipping costs and the potentially long wait if I sent the wheel back to Ligero. Furthermore, I was worried about a the overall quality and the potential of another spoke breaking while I was in the middle of BFE.

So I had the local LBS cut the new rims out and replace with CXP33 and Wheelsmith spokes. I chalked it up to a $300 dollar lesson to let the local guy with 20 years wheelbuliding experience to build my wheels from here on out. BTW-New wheels are rock solid.

Anyone want to buy a set of slightly used Crostini 3.1 (front) and 3.2 (back) rims?

It seems to me that this thread has taken an ugly turn. I am guessing that there are any number of builders of wheels and/or custom frames who if a thread was started about them the compliments and complaints would come in. The reviews mostly seem to address that too. The builders could likely start their own threads about some of us and discover that they had all talked to X-cyclist who insisted he was buying from them, time consumed, no sale. Not saying, just saying.

It seems to me that this thread has taken an ugly turn. I am guessing that there are any number of builders of wheels and/or custom frames who if a thread was started about them the compliments and complaints would come in. The reviews mostly seem to address that too. The builders could likely start their own threads about some of us and discover that they had all talked to X-cyclist who insisted he was buying from them, time consumed, no sale. Not saying, just saying.

True that we all have good and bad experiences with various vendors. But more information is always good for the consumer, and that's all I see here. No one here appears to be thrashing Troy...just relating their (and my) experience in dealing with him. He has the right to post and clarify if someone is just on a witch hunt. There are plenty of good posts about his wheels, which is why many have ordered from him. The reality of delivery times and responses may influence a future purchase, which is good for all. If he's too overwhelmed with a backlog, he shouldn't take more business unless he's completey upfront about delivery times. Then no missed expectations, and fewer unhappy customers.


Mark

I'm a very happy Ligero customer, but I think this is still a good thread. Even though I had a pretty good experience with my build, I did notice that the communication thing was a bit lacking (a minor problem in my case, but something I noticed).

In my mind, the most important issue here is how lucky we are to have such a good selection of quality builders from which to choose, all of whom provide a great alternative to consider relative to the world of factory-built wheels pushed by mega-marketing efforts. I think it's also great that a number of experienced builders like Ligero and Ergott take time to participate in these threads, mostly in a way that's really helpful to the poster and avoids shameless self-promotion.

From my reading of this thread it sounds like Troy is suffering the price of his own success, which in many ways is a pretty high class problem to have. But like any successful small business, he has to figure out how to balance quality, efficiency, growth, etc. It's just the Darwinian nature of these things.

I'd much rather read a thread like this with well-intentioned info and some good constructive criticism than hear that he's had to throw in the towel and go build wheels in somebody else's back room.

It's still a good thread. You need to hear the good and bad to make an informed opinion of any builder before you use them. I know a few mechanics that are awesome, but next to impossible to get them to work on your stuff. There just always bogged down with projects.

Most people want things right now, they don't want to wait. And when it gets near the expected time, you naturrally get excited. Which makes for a bigger dissappointment when it takes longer. I think as long as Troy starts telling new orders it'll be a few months due to time of year and backlog, he'll be fine in the long run. Also, he should probably do a mass email, or at least send a 'form letter,' telling people of his delays. It's not the problems that ruin a rep, it's how you deal with the problems that makes or maintains a reputation.

To clarify, if only a bit, I wasn't intending to silence what I think is important, free bike speech, just to put our collective comments in context. I am also in small business and do find that setting appropriate expectations is critical. That said, you never want to pass up on a sale and sometimes have a more ambitious view of your own abilities, use of time, etc. My contact with Troy (which has not yet lead to wheel purchase) has been great. I am a fan of his flickr account and find myself wanting to know more about the wheels he posts there. His post in this thread would seem to indicate that he doesn't have time to feed the bike porn addicts right now. So it goes.

Dan

I thought i should add my experience with Troy to this thread.

I wanted a wheelset last fall (sept?), and decided to call Troy. I ordered a set of the crostini R3.1/3.2 with Tune hubs and cx-rays. I'm in Canada, so to save on shipping, Troy brought the wheels with him to Interbike, and gave the wheels to some friends of mine who were at the show. I'm sure lugging the extra wheelbox across the country was a pain in the ass for him, so two thumbs up! Where else would you get that kind of service??

The wheels have been awesome so far, been through half a dozen races so far this season.
Now, if i could just get him to send the set of niobium 30s i ordered! It sounds like business has really exploded, and he's coping with some growing pains.

It sounds like the problems folks have experience with Troy - mostly communications - are the type of issues lots of rapidly growing businesses face. Although he could have handled it better, apparently the product he turns out is stellar.

I think the decisions Troy made to change his operations are good ones. The lack of specifics about possible built wheel combinations and prices on wheel builder websites must lead to a lot of back and forth communication from customers trying to figure out options and prices. Websites with more information makes the decision making for a buyer easier and generates fewer questions.

I think the decisions Troy made to change his operations are good ones. The lack of specifics about possible built wheel combinations and prices on wheel builder websites must lead to a lot of back and forth communication from customers trying to figure out options and prices. Websites with more information makes the decision making for a buyer easier and generates fewer questions.


I kinda agree but not really. Yes the final decision works best with you and Troy talking about what you want IF you dont want a generic wheel. I would bet that he gets the same questions over and over everyday. So take his top ten questions and post that question and that answer on the website. Get people in the ballpark of what they want to know from the website then if they want more they can talk to troy about specifics. But put the information out there to help them narrow it down.

IE I weigh xxx and Im looking for a wheel for X, make some general information on there that says if your x weight you can use this spoke count with this rim etc. Then fine tune it when they call you.

Just general info, not click here to order this wheel set. I am not for click here to order this wheelset. That takes ALL the person to person out of a custom wheelset, that just makes it another mavic couterpart.

My two cents.


OH and I got my wheels from Troy ;) oh am I happy. I didnt get to ride on them yet to ride on them yet though that should be tomorrow woot.

But is that what we want? If the options are listed, like named sandwichs at a deli what happens to the "custom" part? What if Carl Strong listed 5 frames you could get, one for the heavy rider, one for the commuter, one for the racer, etc. Would you like that? No, you want to interact with Troy, or Ergott or Andy at Yellow Jersey in Madison. You want to say "I weigh X, the roads I ride are Y," etc. That takes time and time has a cost.

But is that what we want? If the options are listed, like named sandwichs at a deli what happens to the "custom" part? What if Carl Strong listed 5 frames you could get, one for the heavy rider, one for the commuter, one for the racer, etc. Would you like that? No, you want to interact with Troy, or Ergott or Andy at Yellow Jersey in Madison. You want to say "I weigh X, the roads I ride are Y," etc. That takes time and time has a cost.


I agree, dont want the deli shop with 5 sandwiches. But before you went into that deli you had an idea what food they served. Then you narrowed it down.

Im just thinking post the questions and answers you get 100x a day and that could save you a lot of time on the phone. You and I all go to custom wheel builders to get custom wheels not production wheels. But you have to get an idea what you are looking for.

I dont just call up and say I do this what should I get. I research like mad, get some ideas, learn as much as I can, THEN call Troy and ask for his rec and then I can make a more informed decision rather than just ok Troy said get x so im going to get x.


I for sure would like to keep custom in custom. You always get what you pay for and I dont mind waitig for what I want. Troy is a great guy with great products. Just throwing out some ideas to help him and others.

My two cents is all it is heh.

The biggest mistake of every small growing business is not having enough personnel during your "growth spurt" phase. Clearly, word is out on Ligero Wheels, and you will need to hire not 1, but 2 assistants to stay ahead of your orders. In small niche businesses, reputation and word of mouth is everything (and free), but to maintain it, you must maintain your reputation.

Raise prices, add 1 full time technical assistant and a part time assistant for phone duty/busy work.

It's awesome your business is taking off, but keep the momentum by keeping your customers happy!

When I finally got both wheels and got to ride them, a spoke broke at 400 mile mark either due to my big butt or the light rim selection, poor construction, or combination of all three.

Or most likely a defective or damaged spoke. It generally takes a lot longer than that for spokes to fatigue.

So I had the local LBS cut the new rims out and replace with CXP33 and Wheelsmith spokes. I chalked it up to a $300 dollar lesson to let the local guy with 20 years wheelbuliding experience to build my wheels from here on out. BTW-New wheels are rock solid.

Ouch! It pains me that you cut perfectly good new spokes out of a wheel to have them redone. I hope they weren't CX-Rays or Aerolites. What made you think that the spokes or the rims needed replacing? One broken spoke is not evidence of anything. Did you have any other reason to suspect the build or the components?

Or most likely a defective or damaged spoke. It generally takes a lot longer than that for spokes to fatigue.



Ouch! It pains me that you cut perfectly good new spokes out of a wheel to have them redone. I hope they weren't CX-Rays or Aerolites. What made you think that the spokes or the rims needed replacing? One broken spoke is not evidence of anything. Did you have any other reason to suspect the build or the components?

Believe me, it pains me a lot more. I also replaced the rims and went with what I originally wanted but let Troy talk me out of. Also, the construction was suspect and I've dealt with other wheels where spokes break. I could have fixed the spoke and gave it another go but the whole experience had worn my patience thin. I wanted a rock-solid wheelset and it wasn't. The new wheelset from the local builder is, at least over the last 2000 miles. The lesson I learned was 1. Let the best "local" wheelbuilder build your wheels 2. Never ever ever pay someone up front to build your wheels

Update: I received the rear wheel this past Friday. The front one is further delayed due to a faulty hub according to Troy. The wheel weights in at 735 grams without rim tape or skewer, over 100 grams less than the Ksyrium SSC SL it is replacing. That's pretty good for a 30mm 24 spokes clincher. I know this little weight difference will have absolutely no impact on their performance. Still, 100 grams less is still 100 grams less. As for the looks, well, it's plain, not flashy, not boring either. No surprise there :) Troy posted many photos of this setup on flickr. I wish those Ti spokes are darker to match my nude carbon frame though.

I took it out for a quick spin after work yesterday. 5 laps of a 3.3 mile loop in an inner city park + 7 miles of bumpy inner city street getting there and back. I averaged a bit over 20mph on the 5 laps riding solo, about as fast as I can go or dare to go with other park users around. The wheel spins up really fast and climbs well. It's very stiff and seems to be strong enough to deal with the rough roads here. Good Job, Troy! Overall, I'm very satisfied with the wheel so far (23 miles). Does it negate the unpleasant buying/waiting/delay/more delay/further delay experience? Nope! I'm not putting the blame on Troy or anybody. He's a great guy and I am sure he's trying everything to make his customers happy. I would go help him myself if he's local :) I'm just sharing my experience as is. The wait continues..

Also, the construction was suspect and I've dealt with other wheels where spokes break.

Yes, but they are not all equivalent. A spoke can break from damage or a defect... or a spokes can break from a poor build and resultant fatigue. IME it usually takes a few thousand miles for the later to occur, and then several of them will go in a short time. Were the wheels going out of true, spokes lossening, etc? Any other reason to suspect the construction?

1. Let the best "local" wheelbuilder build your wheels 2. Never ever ever pay someone up front to build your wheels

Going local is good idea for almost any purchase, but for various reasons we often don't. In this case good wheelbuilders are not so plentiful, and if you do find a good one usually the local cost is higher. Did you try to get your money back from Troy after the delays? Hard to believe he wouldn't refund you...

Yes, but they are not all equivalent. A spoke can break from damage or a defect... or a spokes can break from a poor build and resultant fatigue. IME it usually takes a few thousand miles for the later to occur, and then several of them will go in a short time. Were the wheels going out of true, spokes lossening, etc? Any other reason to suspect the construction?



Going local is good idea for almost any purchase, but for various reasons we often don't. In this case good wheelbuilders are not so plentiful, and if you do find a good one usually the local cost is higher. Did you try to get your money back from Troy after the delays? Hard to believe he wouldn't refund you...


I wasn't in the mood to mess around after my ordeal with Ligero, I'd lost trust and didn't want to get caught out in BFE again with another broken spoke. The local wheelbuider (the guy who built the second set that are rock solid) had his opinion of Ligero's wheelset and it wasn't good. I made a decision and chose the route I took. I wish you'd been there to advise me but you were nowhere to be found. I needed a set that I could ride and could depend on, the local wheelbuilder completed the job in five days that included three days wait on the rims to be delivered. I understand what you are saying and considering it, I might have said to replace the broken spoke and gave it a go but I made my decision and have to live with it.

I had recommendations from other local experienced riders about the local wheelbulder's quality and workmanship, I chose Ligero because he was cheaper and had many good recommendations here in this forum. It wasn't worth the money I originally saved. Waiting 12 weeks after being told 2 weeks, no/slow e-mail or phone call response after week 6. My money paid up front to a guy that I would have to fly to see. And when the spoke broke I was not going to ship a wheel with a broken spoke off to be repaired with no way of knowing if I'd ever get it back along with the expense to do so. Also, I got steered off my original request for CXP33's to use a different rim (Ambrosia) then got steered to a different third rim (Crostini) when the Ambrosia became unavailable. I was willing to accept anything near the end of the ordeal just to get something delivered and not to have to worry about losing the $500+ dollars that I paid up front.

As for asking Ligero for a refund. He can read this and buy back the Crositin rims with the low milage they have on them. I'll eat the cost for the spokes and the rebuild as my penance for not listening to my riding buds that told me who to see locally for a good wheelset.

My advice:

1) Buy your wheels from a good local wheelbuilder if possible.
2) Never ever pay a wheelbuilder up front, use a credit card to protect yourself

While it did take substantially longer than originally anticipated, I have no complaints with my wheelset from Troy. I paid him a 50% deposit up front and Troy shipped the wheelset without even asking for the second installment. I guess I could have stiffed him the second 50% for taking longer, but it is apparant that his supply can not keep up with the demand between building, trade shows and other marketing events.

If you have the patience and time, Troy can deliver. He responded to all e-mail inquiries and phone calls within a 24-48 hr period.

Any equity partners want to sell the right to Ligero franchises???