I'm seriously considering a custom titanium or steel CX bike, but before I engage on this endeavor by contacting the various builders, I wanted to hear the other side of the coin: the bad stories, the regrets, the unfulfilled fantasies upon inspection.

What should I look out for in terms of pitfalls and mistakes that others have made in this world of custom?

My short list right now include Kish, Sycip, Pereira and Waterford. Other worthy contenders include Calfee, Sachs and Vanilla, but they may be beyond my means.

Remember, no positive spins, I just want to hear the ugly side of custom bikes.

My one regret....


Not getting one sooner. Yea, it's a positive spin, but I'm doubting you will find many people that are unhappy with their custom frames for one of two reason:

1. they just absolutely love the frame
2. they spent so much on it they will rationalize any problems with the bike away.

I have read one or two stories about people that were unhappy with their custom, but in all cases the custom builder worked with them to correct the problem. So again, you will likely not find a lot of complaints.

The big thing is going into the process knowing what you want out of the bike and knowing yourself and what you want the bike to do. Also having a set budget and sticking with it is important, but you should have some flexibility.

Look at all the custom frames that have been shown here and find some that you like, then contact the builders of those frames.

It's a fun process, but the wait can be a bit of a pain in this world of instant gratification. I guess that was the other thing I didn't like about going custom.

One serious regret - trusting someone on their word and then conducting a long running campaign of threats, lies, recriminations and ugliness with the ultimate result of me forfeiting my deposit in favor of giving that loser any more money.

No, it wasn't someone on your list.

I highly recommend getting some references - bike forums are a great place. But even then I doubt I would have avoided this particular disaster.

The other thing that can cause some regret is not fully understanding what you need in terms of geometry and then ending up with a bike that you sort of "grow" out of. This of course depends on your sophistication as a consumer and where you stand in developing your cycling abilities and needs. Also, your taste can change. This kind of stuff causes you to look back and wonder, but don't forget - hindsight is 20/20.

The ugly side is you end up with a frame that is so perfect for you that you can't justify buying another one. I've been stuck with the same damn custom frame for 19 years now. It sucks.

Also, with the exception of Waterford fitters/dealers, it appears that all these makers are outside my driving radius. Obviously, it would be ideal to be fitted in person with the bike maker, but is it "asking for trouble" to send in accurate measurements instead?

Anybody try long distance fittings that didn't work out? Or, is everyone pretty much of the opinion that it's a no-brainer - if you go custom, you HAVE to go in person for a fitting (what's another $400 in travel expenses when you're spending $5000 already... ouch).

I don't have direct experience, but my coach and fitter did warn me that
he had two clients who had custom frames built that they didn't like.
They had unusual body types and were unable to find a stem to match
the bike that gave them an acceptable combination of handling and comfort.
They each had to sell the frame.

There are numerous downsides to custom frames. They should not be purchased by the relatively new rider who has no idea what drop and reach he can tolerate. You can get a professional fitting, but all the fitter can do is determine a combination of STA and seatpost that will produce KOP. Might not be the best fore/aft position, but you have to start somewhere. As for the HT length that determines the drop from the saddle to the bars, that's guesswork too. Some riders can barely tolerate 5cm and others, like me, prefer 9cm. If you don't know, the fitter is likely to be conservative. If you've got really odd proportions, you may get a bike that fits great, but handles poorly. Frames that deviate far from stock are likely candidates for this problem. Bottom line is, don't accept an untried position as the one for your custom frame. Then there's the long wait.

Now that I'm riding my 23rd season, I could tell you exactly what I'd specify for all frame dimensions. A few years ago, I wouldn't be as sure. I can get close enough with a stock frame.

Also, with the exception of Waterford fitters/dealers, it appears that all these makers are outside my driving radius. Obviously, it would be ideal to be fitted in person with the bike maker, but is it "asking for trouble" to send in accurate measurements instead?

Anybody try long distance fittings that didn't work out? Or, is everyone pretty much of the opinion that it's a no-brainer - if you go custom, you HAVE to go in person for a fitting (what's another $400 in travel expenses when you're spending $5000 already... ouch).

I don't know about others, but Dave Kirk is happy to do a frame based on a Serotta fit system fitting, because he helped develop the system when he worked at Serotta.

My only regret about my frame is much like what you've already heard: I only regret that I can't currently justify getting another one and one for my wife.

I don't have direct experience, but my coach and fitter did warn me that
he had two clients who had custom frames built that they didn't like.
They had unusual body types and were unable to find a stem to match
the bike that gave them an acceptable combination of handling and comfort.
They each had to sell the frame.

That hardly sounds like they had custom frames at all. Or maybe they had customs designed for someone else, because one of the big selling points of custom frames is so that people with unusual body types can finally fit on a bike without going to weird stems and such.

They either had really bad fit numbers or a really bad builder or both.

Also, with the exception of Waterford fitters/dealers, it appears that all these makers are outside my driving radius. Obviously, it would be ideal to be fitted in person with the bike maker, but is it "asking for trouble" to send in accurate measurements instead?

Anybody try long distance fittings that didn't work out? Or, is everyone pretty much of the opinion that it's a no-brainer - if you go custom, you HAVE to go in person for a fitting (what's another $400 in travel expenses when you're spending $5000 already... ouch).

I've not gone to a builder for a fitting, but then I know what I want. After 10 or so years of messing around with bikes I can spec one that will make me happy.

You can go and pay for a fitting at a shop and compare that to the results that the builder gives you from your submitted measurements. Or, if you're happy with your current bike you can measure it to death and just spec that. On my first custom, I provided measurements and the result was fine. Over time, my position has evolved and I've made adjustments accordingly to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and now 6th customs I've done. Minor changes from the first one, but some reflecting a more aggressive position and the desire for a shorter seat tube.

Or you can get on a plane and spend time with the builder.

If you like what you're riding, it's the best place to start. There may not be any recommendations to change it or there may be some minor ones. If you're not riding in pain today, it might be that your current geometry works.

It's all about how much risk you're willing to tolerate.

if you get a frame from Sacha, he will pay to have a fitting for you at a local shop.

My experience with custom bikes has been mixed, and was discussed ad nauseum back in 2001-2002 on these forums when I was going through it. Neither was horrible, but it reminded me that even working with an admired custom builder is no magic bullet.

My first experience with IF. I paid a substantial deposit and got a fitting, but then could not get them to return my calls to discuss paint options. It was actually a surreal experience to be begging someone to take more of my $$ and not be able to get their attention (this was for a custom Crown Jewel ti). At the six week point I asked for my deposit back. Listening to others, I don't think my experience was typical, but it was real.

I had a great experience with Seven all the way through the fabrication process, but the end result was a bike with very significant toe overlap, which seemed odd because I'm not particularly short (5' 6 1/2") and don't even have toe overlap on my retro bike (a 53 cm slightly too small old lugged Bianchi). Ultimately, it was so unhappy I had to have the front end re-worked, which they only agreed to do after being "outed" on this forum. It is much better now.

My next bike will be new lugged steel, and it will be stock if the geometry works.

Make sure you know what you are communicating.

Ask for all day comfortable.......don't complain if you get a little chain rub.

As someone else said....if you really know your contact points, and you know what you like or don't like aesteticially you should be OK.

The worst errors I see in custome are paint. Some/many think they have to beso unique they end up "over the top".

I've seen customs (Paint jobs)that must have had the builders tearing their hair out.

Know what you want and communicate it clearly.

Len

I too am sorry I waited so long before going custom.

So, what price range did your custom bikes fall in?

I'm planning on getting one in 4 or 5 years after medical school and more experience on the bike; wondering how much I'll need for a great bike.

hey my last name is Pereira

I had a custom frame made by a little known builder. He did a great job, and I was perfectly happy with every single detail. I got that bike in '74 and just sold it a couple of years ago.

I don't think I'd do it again though. Thre are too many bikes that fit me perfectly, (and I don't have a typical body type), ride & handle great, look terrific, and cost less.

I've not gone to a builder for a fitting, but then I know what I want. After 10 or so years of messing around with bikes I can spec one that will make me happy.

I was the same way, I had ridden enough bikes and paid attention to the geometry of bikes that I had ridden and the changes I had to make to them to get them to fit correctly (or as close to it as possible).

I had figured out the basic geometry long before I actually placed my order. After talking with the builder I had some very minor changes made to the geometry. Overall, I ended up with a bike that both fits and handles great.

So, what price range did your custom bikes fall in?

I'm planning on getting one in 4 or 5 years after medical school and more experience on the bike; wondering how much I'll need for a great bike.

You can pretty much spend whatever you want.

Custom frames generally start around $1000 and go well over $8000. Lots to choose from in the $1500 to $2500 range.

Depending on how good a shopper you are and the kit you build it with, you can get away with as little as $2000.

The price range I'm seeing for the popular custom builders are about $1800-$2500 for the frame and fork. Components will be another $1000 to $3000 depending on what you choose and where you source it.

Complete bikes in the Ultegra range are around $3500. If you graduate in 4 years, you can put a deposit for a Vanilla or Sachs now, and get it when you graduate... either bike is a dang fine graduation present. The initial deposit for either one is around $500 I believe.

I'm a builder and from where I sit most of the disappointed owners of "custom" bikes fall into two camps.

1) The builder was a poor communicator and didn't return calls or emails, didn't deliver on time or didn't take care of an issue after the sale. Aside from picking the builder very carefully there's not much a customer can realistically do about this. That said, one needs to be practical and remember that if your bike is a year off and you are emailing the builder about decal placement he might have bigger fish to fry at that moment and might be slow getting back to you. But that is still NO excuse for not getting back in the long run. So if your first calls and emails aren't returned in a timely fashion move on. It's not going to get better later. If you have to harass the guy to take your money how well do you think this is going to go?

2) The bike doesn't fit or ride like you hoped it would. I understand this might get some all CAPS replies but........from my experience this most often happens because the builder doesn't know what the heck he's doing OR the customer insists on designing the bike themselves. If the builder is new and/or inexperienced and needs to be told how to build your bike you should look for a new guy. If you know more than he does it might mean you know a lot..........but most likely it means he doesn't know enough. Find a new guy.

Part B of this is the customer insisting that the bike be built a certain way despite the advice of the builder. I made this mistake once.........ONCE. Never again. I think that the builder should listen intently to what you want. How you want the bike to look, fit and ride and then do what he knows to be best to get to that end. Often the customer will say something like "I like the chainstays on my Giant, the top tube on my Litespeed and the fork rake on my Colnago...........so please use all those things". Maybe they will all go together well. Maybe they won't. The builder should know. If the experienced builder says they won't it's most likely in your best interest to believe them. The builder wants you to be happy and they won't make any more money by making the seat tube angle 73* instead of 75*. They have no ulterior motives or other axe to grind. Let the guy do what he's trained to do.

All that said, buying a handbuilt frame always has risk. You can't test ride one to be 100% sure so with that comes risk. If you can't accept that risk, that's why Trek exists. They make fine stuff that you can test ride. But if you can stomach a small amount of risk the benefits can be huge. If when you talk to the builder you get that funny feeling in your stomach that something isn't right it's best to walk away. Never give a deposit to someone that gives you that feeling even if the internet is full of praise for the guy. There are plenty of builders.......move on. Interview, talk, research and get to know the guy you are about to give a bunch of money to. It should be fun. In the end you'll end up with a bike that makes you smile every time you get on it and sad every time you need to get off it.

Thanks for reading.

Dave

Here's my experience...

I have a Seven which is an absolute dream of a bike. The entire process was facilitated by my LBS and went without a hitch. I have only praise for the service, support and overall quality of Seven.

That being said, I don't think my body geometry is so unique I really needed a custom build. Maybe I'm missing something but my off the rack bikes are every bit as comfortable. In fact I picked up an Airborne Zepplin that for my money is way more bang for the buck than my Seven. Again, that's not a knock against custom.

IMO the key is fit. I don't know how many people go custom because a of a poorly fitted "off the rack" bike.

Be sure you are clear on your reasons for going custom & to Len's point communicate this to your builder.

The price range I'm seeing for the popular custom builders are about $1800-$2500 for the frame and fork. Components will be another $1000 to $3000 depending on what you choose and where you source it.

Complete bikes in the Ultegra range are around $3500. If you graduate in 4 years, you can put a deposit for a Vanilla or Sachs now, and get it when you graduate... either bike is a dang fine graduation present. The initial deposit for either one is around $500 I believe.

There are much cheaper, but still great quality options out there. My Curtlo frame and fork came in under $1000 ($755.00 for the frame alone) and my total Ultegra 10 speed equipped bike was $2077.00 built and shipped by Doug.

Gunner frames are around $1000 and several other builders are in the $1000.00 and under price range.

Make sure you look around and look at all options. Pick your price range and stay in that area. Some don't care about the name on the side of the bike, others it's one of the most important factors. In the end, get what you want. As has been mentioned sometimes it doesn't happen and some builders are more willing to go out of the box than others: for their own reasons. That's where talking with the builders is important before laying down a deposit and getting on the waiting list.

I think there is a myth that if your contact points "Fit" on a stock frame you shouldn't/needn't go custom....I disagree, somewhat. To me fit has many dimensions (If you'll pardon the pun):

1.) Fit to contact points. This is what most people seem to mean when they talk about fit. It's about balance over the bike and comfort. This is the easiest to understand.

2.) Fit to weight. Most stock frames are built to the middle of the Bell curve weight wise. I'm (when fit) around 160 lbs. I've ridden a custom bike designed for a 130 lb climber and also one built for a 240 lb masher......both bikes were wonderful for their owners but awful for me. By the same token the 130 lb climber had a hard time finding a bike that wasn't to stiff for him off the rack and likewise for the heavier rider finding a stout enough bike.

3.) Fit to handling characteristics you desire. Pretty self explanatory......all stock bikes don't handle the same.

4.) Fit to purpose. Are you a spinner or a masher....do you want a pump peg? a chain hanger? longer chain-stays for a more comfortable ride? Fender or rack mounts? a third bottle cage? etc etc.

5.) Fit to aesthetic desires. Paint? Longer Head tube? Flat TT or sloping TT? Decals? etc.

Finally.....what if you want some of all of the above? The more of these "Differences" you want, the smaller the "Of the shelf" choices you have.

The price of even high end custom is more than competitive to the off the shelf market.......my question has become....why ever go "of the shelf"? unless you need the bike tomorrow that is.

YMMV

Len

I think there is a myth that if your contact points "Fit" on a stock frame you shouldn't/needn't go custom....I disagree, somewhat. To me fit has many dimensions (If you'll pardon the pun):

1.) Fit to contact points. This is what most people seem to mean when they talk about fit. It's about balance over the bike and comfort. This is the easiest to understand.

2.) Fit to weight. Most stock frames are built to the middle of the Bell curve weight wise. I'm (when fit) around 160 lbs. I've ridden a custom bike designed for a 130 lb climber and also one built for a 240 lb masher......both bikes were wonderful for their owners but awful for me. By the same token the 130 lb climber had a hard time finding a bike that wasn't to stiff for him off the rack and likewise for the heavier rider finding a stout enough bike.

3.) Fit to handling characteristics you desire. Pretty self explanatory......all stock bikes don't handle the same.

4.) Fit to purpose. Are you a spinner or a masher....do you want a pump peg? a chain hanger? longer chain-stays for a more comfortable ride? Fender or rack mounts? a third bottle cage? etc etc.

5.) Fit to aesthetic desires. Paint? Longer Head tube? Flat TT or sloping TT? Decals? etc.

Finally.....what if you want some of all of the above? The more of these "Differences" you want, the smaller the "Of the shelf" choices you have.

The price of even high end custom is more than competitive to the off the shelf market.......my question has become....why ever go "of the shelf"? unless you need the bike tomorrow that is.

YMMV

Len

yeah...........what he said.

Dave

You asked that we refrain from positive spin, so I won't go there. But reconsider Kish. If your profile is accurate, you're less than a 3 1/2 hr drive from his Grover Beach location. Spend a couple hours with Jim going over the details of what you want and in within 10 wks you will be riding a finely crafted steel cx bike.
If you want details of my positive experience with Kish and, more importantly, the finished cx steel project, I'm happy to share.

Also, with the exception of Waterford fitters/dealers, it appears that all these makers are outside my driving radius. Obviously, it would be ideal to be fitted in person with the bike maker, but is it "asking for trouble" to send in accurate measurements instead?

Anybody try long distance fittings that didn't work out? Or, is everyone pretty much of the opinion that it's a no-brainer - if you go custom, you HAVE to go in person for a fitting (what's another $400 in travel expenses when you're spending $5000 already... ouch).

Yes, Kish has been very responsive to my emails. His prompt and honest responses keep him on the top of my short list. I'm trying very hard to save up for a Ti frame, but that's really pushing it... hey, it's only money right? It'll last a lifetime right? LOL That's what I tell myself everyday!

I didn't realize he's less than 4 hours away... for some reason I assumed he was north of Cisco! Definitely do-able.

yeah...........what he said.

Dave

+1. I 'fit' pretty well on off-the rack bikes, but I'm 6'2" and weigh anywhere from 200 - 215 (closer to 200 nowadays), so a bike built for a 6'1" 170 lb. rider is not going to be optimal for me. I had a great experience with a good builder who took everything about my measurements, size, riding style and wants and built the exact right frame for me. It was worth the premium over an off-the-rack bike to get it 'just right'.

Jim

I own a Waterford via a shop that uses the Serotta fit system. I'm very happy. It is essential that you do you homework, test ride, interview shops, check their references with the frame makers. It really comes down to the caliber of your local shop. They fit you and control the project with the frame maker. In my opinion, folks that report bad experiences dealt with incompetent shops.

Here's my experience...

I have a Seven which is an absolute dream of a bike. The entire process was facilitated by my LBS and went without a hitch. I have only praise for the service, support and overall quality of Seven.

That being said, I don't think my body geometry is so unique I really needed a custom build. Maybe I'm missing something but my off the rack bikes are every bit as comfortable. In fact I picked up an Airborne Zepplin that for my money is way more bang for the buck than my Seven. Again, that's not a knock against custom.

IMO the key is fit. I don't know how many people go custom because a of a poorly fitted "off the rack" bike.

Be sure you are clear on your reasons for going custom & to Len's point communicate this to your builder.
+1...Exactly my sentiments. You said it better than I did.

While I think Dave Kirk and Len J hit the high points, I also believe that the greatest chance of not being satisfied with a custom (other than self-designing something that really is a monstrosity) is just accepting a builder's interpretation of what you want because you figure they know best. The fact is that everybody has built in preferences about rake/trail, BB height, front center and all the rest, and when you accept a builder's vision you also accept his preferences. Odds are they will be well informed and reasonable, but they might not be exactly what your preferences. Perhaps this is a problem without need of discussion because if you already know your desires well enough, you don't need me to tell you to stick to your guns and avoid builders who won't do what you are asking. Meanwhile if you are not confident in your choices, the odds are the builder's preferences will work fine.

I have had several customs built, all using specs I provided after figuring out what I liked in stock land. They are my favorite bikes, not a bad one in the bunch. I recently tried to avail myself of the "full custom geometry available" option on the DeRosa Idol and found out it's really not - I wanted a TT .7cm longer than the stock size and DeRosa insisted they had to put on a HT that was over 2cm taller to reflect their guess that I must be a giant American and needed the extra frame support, even though I gave them my (low) weight, height and wattage and sent pictures of existing customs I love with much shorter HT and the same TT. There was no way to get the bars low enough with the HT height they wanted to give me (which coindentally was the same HT height as a larger model size - making me wonder how fully custom that frame is). In the end, I just chose the stock model with the right HT height and will use a longer stem. Sometimes a builder is just plain wrong.

While I think Dave Kirk and Len J hit the high points, I also believe that the greatest chance of not being satisfied with a custom (other than self-designing something that really is a monstrosity) is just accepting a builder's interpretation of what you want because you figure they know best. The fact is that everybody has built in preferences about rake/trail, BB height, front center and all the rest, and when you accept a builder's vision you also accept his preferences. Odds are they will be well informed and reasonable, but they might not be exactly what your preferences. Perhaps this is a problem without need of discussion because if you already know your desires well enough, you don't need me to tell you to stick to your guns and avoid builders who won't do what you are asking. Meanwhile if you are not confident in your choices, the odds are the builder's preferences will work fine.

I have had several customs built, all using specs I provided after figuring out what I liked in stock land. They are my favorite bikes, not a bad one in the bunch. I recently tried to avail myself of the "full custom geometry available" option on the DeRosa Idol and found out it's really not - I wanted a TT .7cm longer than the stock size and DeRosa insisted they had to put on a HT that was over 2cm taller to reflect their guess that I must be a giant American and needed the extra frame support, even though I gave them my (low) weight, height and wattage and sent pictures of existing customs I love with much shorter HT and the same TT. There was no way to get the bars low enough with the HT height they wanted to give me (which coindentally was the same HT height as a larger model size - making me wonder how fully custom that frame is). In the end, I just chose the stock model with the right HT height and will use a longer stem. Sometimes a builder is just plain wrong.


I totally agree, in fact there was a discussion on here a while back I was involved in about this very thing with several builders chiming in. Of course they all told me I was wrong (watch of for them....:p ) and that the builder was always right, going so far as to say they wouldn't build a bike that had their name on it if they didn't agree with the design, even if the customer knew they were right.

Sometimes, the builder is right, sometimes not. They don't really know you, your body, your abilities or your true desires and they may not get communicated properly in the discussions.

If you have a good idea of what you want and know it will work, or know you need it based on odd dimensions or just plain want something different, stick to your guns. It's all part of the process I guess. Find a builder that agrees with your philosophy and will build your bike, not their bike for you.

+1 on Kish.
Wonderful experience.

Steel Kish
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/93977814@N00/171428596/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/61/171428596_aa315cb957.jpg" width="500" height="374" alt="P1010034" /></a>

Not much need for Ti with one of these.

The only regret is it's the only frame I've every had where I'm not thinking about the next one

That's a sweet looking Kish!

...for not doing this years ago.
I actually tried, about two years ago, with getting a Serotta from the Bicycle Ranch. But, the fitting process, the fitter and the shop all just turned me way off on a Serotta.
Instead, I called Brent Steelman and asked him if he could build me a bike of my dreams.
I wanted a pretty simple steel bike with only one major request. I needed to be comfortable. He had a great reputation, listened to me and spoke frankly.
So, I took a Saturday, flew out to San Jose, rented a car and had Brent fit me.
I think it cost me a total of about $180. Well worth it.
He was a pleasure to deal with and built me an awesome bike.

I will NEVER buy an off-the-shelf bike and I will never get a custom bike through a LBS.

The same goes for the wheel set that I'll be getting very soon. Built for me and purchased from the reputable builder.

Life lesson learned.

I was given a 12 week delivery date. It was close to double that. I would have been OK with that if I was originally given the longer time.
A few years later I ordered another frame from them and they met the quoted 12 weeks.

I've had a total of nine, that's right, NINE custom CX bikes over the years, including a few from your list, and at the moment I still have four of them. Don't ask...I have a pretty deep bike fetish and I've been racing/riding CX for almost 10 years. Anyway...

-One thing I REGRET with a few of those frame is not contacting a CX builder who really knows CX bikes. By that I mean, the builders who actually ride or race CX bikes at least occasionally have done much better than the ones who didn't. Specifically...tubing selection, steering geometry, the delicate balance between tire clearance and chainring clearance, toe overlap, etc.

-Another thing I regretted was insisting on tob tube cable routing. It just makes it harder to deal with the Ft derailleur and the downtube cable/mud clearance thing is honestly no big deal. Best setup: top tube routing for rear brake and derailleur, downtube for ft. derailleur.

-Last thing: sticking with steel. I grew up on custom steel and I love it, but damn if modern day carbon forks and well-built custom scandium frames aren't lighter, more supple and just as durable. :thumbsup:

+1 on Kish.
Wonderful experience.
+2.
:)

Do it.

Hans Schneider built mine, and it's like he read my mind. The bike is exactly what I dreamed about. I've had so much joy on the thing, I occasionally go down to H ville and drop off beer and cool t shirts and photo's I've taken on rides, as appreciation.

I think you should get a list of builders together (which it looks like you already have) and give them a call. I know that their time is valuale and takes away from their being able to build the frames, but it is worth it to know where they are coming from on frame design, geometry, and just attitude. If I get off of the phone with someone that I am about to send my hard-earned cash to, I want them to be at least somewhat friendly. I have ordered 3 custom frames, all 29ers. One was bad, one was good, and one was excellent. One is on your list and he's not the bad one. They are all different in what they feel the perfect bike is. It's more of an expression of their experience than just a piece of metal or carbon fiber. Feel free to PM me if you want to hear more about my experiences with these builders. In the end, I'm really glad that I went custom. It is a bit more of a hassle than just buying one off of the shelf, but the feel and fit of a bike made hyst for you is beyond words...well, we'll just say it dissappears. :)

I bought a custom bike and wanted a "unique" look, so I chose a unusual color. I like it sometimes, but mostly I wish I had stuck with a more basic, classic color scheme that will never go out of style.

I love the fit and ride of the bike....my only regret is cosmetic.