It is always thrown out, especially by religious conservatives, to distinguish other religious groups. I'm sure it has a wikipedia definition (haven't looked) but I also think it is in the eye of the beholder.

In my evangelical youth, they said Catholicism was a cult because it involved adherence to a human leader on a level equal to or greater than scripture. And of course most mainline Christian faiths use the word on occasion to attack Mormonism (watch out Mitt!)

But then even aside from internal squabbling, can we all agree that when an egomaniacal delusional leader persuades a mass suicide to ... say. .... reunited with the spaceship behind the Hale-Bopp comet, that the "cult" word might apply?

What about Hare Krishnas? Charlie Manson?

The RBR Lounge? The have their own language over there...

The RBR Lounge? The have their own language over there...

O RLY!?

:p

Something which may distinguish a cult from an organised religion, is that cults tends to be short lived, the followers are embattled from day one against the inner contradictions and failing of the cult; this flight from reality cannot continue ad infinitum, something has to give.

religion=(cult+time)

religion=(cult+time)

No I do not think it is that simple, there is something self-destructive about cults (maybe that is a truism though).

I regard a cult as having to insulate/isolate its members from society/sanity/reality as a way to maintain control.

Something which may distinguish a cult from an organised religion, is that cults tends to be short lived, the followers are embattled from day one against the inner contradictions and failing of the cult; this flight from reality cannot continue ad infinitum, something has to give.

A religion will give you it's message for free, on your own schedule, at your own level of devotion. Sure, they'll ask for money and time, but you won't be denied access to the core message if you don't pay, or if you've got your own schedule, or if you are only casually interested. A religion probably (and I'm going back to my catholic school days here) will not require you to drop all your non-religion friends and associate only with approved religious types. Again, they may suggest it, but if you don't, you won't get the spiritual boot.

A cult requires that you pay for the message in time, attention and devotion, and that you must adhere to their salvation schedule, not you own. A cult will require you to cut your ties with non-cult friends and family.

Thus, Rivendell is a religion, Ibob is a cult.

A religion will give you it's message for free, on your own schedule, at your own level of devotion. Sure, they'll ask for money and time, but you won't be denied access to the core message if you don't pay, or if you've got your own schedule, or if you are only casually interested. A religion probably (and I'm going back to my catholic school days here) will not require you to drop all your non-religion friends and associate only with approved religious types. Again, they may suggest it, but if you don't, you won't get the spiritual boot.

A cult requires that you pay for the message in time, attention and devotion, and that you must adhere to their salvation schedule, not you own. A cult will require you to cut your ties with non-cult friends and family.

Thus, Rivendell is a religion, Ibob is a cult.

I think that's a pretty good definition. Basically it's the level of mental control it has over an individual. A cult would have a high level of control, including taking over one's own survival instincts. Whatever physical actions might occur are driven by this mind control aspect.

A cult is someone else's religion.

buck-50, that may be true about what religions are these days as they have become less strict but historicaly not so true as they were much more controlling in the past.

I tend to agree with Bocephus Jones II, except I think its more religion=(cult+time+size) so they would need to expand and not just stay a small closed group. (I.e. passed down in the familiy or something)

So what is scientology?
the_rydster, there are lots of cults created all the time so the stable ones last long enough to become a religion. (plus they get more time to work out some of the internal conflicts)

religion=(cult+time)


religion=cult+time and time=membership and acceptance

early Christians were seen as a cult as I'm sure were the Lutherans......

religion=cult+time and time=membership and acceptance

early Christians were seen as a cult as I'm sure were the Lutherans......


I still see Christians as a cult.

I still see Christians as a cult.

see other Christians (Mormons, Christian Scientists, 7th Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses) as cults as well

see other Christians (Mormons, Christian Scientists, 7th Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses) as cults as well

Don't forget the Catholics too.

religion=cult+time and time=membership and acceptance

early Christians were seen as a cult as I'm sure were the Lutherans......

Growing up Lutheran and now being pretty much an agnostic I can now look back and see the obvious brainwashing involved to get me to believe some of the ridiculous stuff the Bible said was true. It's a lot harder if you're still in the middle of it to see those trappings. Of course it was no Jim Jones Guyana-style cult, but it did have some of the same trappings for sure. I guess there are different levels of cults. SOme more destructive than others. Mainstream religion might not get people to drink Kool Aid, but it does tend to drive many of the thought processes of its members.

So what is scientology?

A rich mans cult?

A rich mans cult?

I have heard that the Tom Cruises and John Travoltas are taken care of in nice fashion in the CO$ while the peons are treated totally different.

I have heard that the Tom Cruises and John Travoltas are taken care of in nice fashion in the CO$ while the peons are treated totally different.

Sound to me like a mirror image of society as it is. Maybe we're all members of a cult without knowing it - the USA cult.

What about Hare Krishnas? Charlie Manson?[/QUOTE]

cult could mean a non sensical adoration that wouldn't hold when faced w/ spiritual truth; or any other truth cause cults exist around everything. ford mustangs, star wars, colnago..

see other Christians (Mormons, Christian Scientists, 7th Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses) as cults as well

cults have to do w/adoration and it's condemnation by the Bible.adoration meaning worship of artificial and fake deities. religion isn't supposed to be about adoration.

cults have to do w/adoration and it's condemnation by the Bible.adoration meaning worship of artificial and fake deities. religion isn't supposed to be about adoration.

What's the difference between a fake deity and the God that religions adore, uhmmm... worship? Please offer some proof to support your response. :)

I'm beginning to think that a cult is anything that has people doing things that would embarrass me to do.

IMO Cult =
1. Secret rituals that are only available to those showing support to the group.
2. Own language.
3. Deified leaders.
4. Shames those that want to leave.
Interestly, Wiki has a warning disclaimer for multiple definitions for Cult.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
This is the first time I've seen this on Wikipedia.

I think the Psychological definition is probably the one that best fits the direction this thread is going.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Psychological_definition

Cheers,
Mike

IMO Cult =
1. Secret rituals that are only available to those showing support to the group.
2. Own language.
3. Deified leaders.
4. Shames those that want to leave.




So that definition includes most mainstream religions....

cults have to do w/adoration and it's condemnation by the Bible.adoration meaning worship of artificial and fake deities. religion isn't supposed to be about adoration.

Who's to say God is real and the Bible isn't anything but historical fiction? Cults...all of em.

religion=cult+time and time=membership and acceptance

early Christians were seen as a cult as I'm sure were the Lutherans......

Ladder Day Saints crowd....secret underwear and code words for their spouses...
ya, nothing oddly cultish about that. :rolleyes:

Ladder Day Saints crowd....secret underwear and code words for their spouses...
ya, nothing oddly cultish about that. :rolleyes:

Catholics with secret rituals, believe in the infallibility of the Pope
Protestants who think that the bread and wine actually transform into the body and blood of Christ...yeah nothing strange about that.

This thread made me think of this song by XTC;


"The Ballad Of Peter Pumpkinhead"

Peter Pumpkinhead came to town
Spreading wisdom and cash around
Fed the starving and housed the poor
Showed the vatican what gold's for
But he made too many enemies
Of the people who would keep us on our knees
Hooray for Peter Pumpkin
Who'll pray for Peter Pumpkinhead?
Oh my!
Peter Pumpkinhead pulled them all
Emptied churches and shopping malls
Where he spoke, it would raise the roof
Peter Pumpkinhead told the truth
But he made too many enemies...
Peter Pumpkinhead put to shame
Governments who would slur his name
Plots and sex scandals failed outright
Peter merely said
Any kind of love is alright
But he made too many enemies...
Peter Pumpkinhead was too good
Had him nailed to a chunk of wood
He died grinning on live TV
Hanging there he looked a lot like you
And an awful lot like me!
But he made too many enemies...
Hooray for Peter Pumpkin
Who'll pray for Peter Pumpkin
Hooray for Peter Pumpkinhead
Oh my oh my oh!
Doesn't it make you want to cry oh?

Also John Denver said "Life ain't nothing but a funny funny riddle/ Thank God I'm a country boy" but if life ain't nothing but a funny riddle why would John be thanking God?

IMO Cult =
1. Secret rituals that are only available to those showing support to the group.
2. Own language.
3. Deified leaders.
4. Shames those that want to leave.
Interestly, Wiki has a warning disclaimer for multiple definitions for Cult.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
This is the first time I've seen this on Wikipedia.

I think the Psychological definition is probably the one that best fits the direction this thread is going.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Psychological_definition

Cheers,
Mike

By those standards...the RBR Lounge definitely qualifies. :D

By those standards...the RBR Lounge definitely qualifies. :D

NO! You're wrong! Shun him! Shun him!

By those standards...the RBR Lounge definitely qualifies. :D
Nah..not quite...here's Teh Lounge revision of those rules:

1. Secret rituals that are only available to those dumb enough to hang around Teh Lounge too long.
2. Must understand L33T and recycled jokes from Fark.
3. Lots of Moreons--no Leaders.
4. Shames those that want to stay.

Catholics with secret rituals, believe in the infallibility of the Pope
Protestants who think that the bread and wine actually transform into the body and blood of Christ...yeah nothing strange about that.

That is pure bigotry equating 'strangeness' with 'cults'.

People on this thread have mentioned that young religions are 'cults', this is true in so far as one has a very broad definition of what a cult is. However I would suggest that when one talks of 'cults' in a modern sense,, and how the word is used today, one is really talking about self-destructive little group ideologies, in which the leader(s) ruthlessly exploit peoples dependancy for their own personal gain. In this view, 'cults' are short lived since their inner-contradictions, the lies they tell, etc eventually destroy them; one cannot believe that ones leader is God or omnipotent forever, something has to give.

Given this context, 'cults' are quite unique from say....Catholicism. The inner dynamics of Catholicism have hithero led to its perpetuation, as oppose to the self-destruction of your typical wacko Jim Jones type affair. One might argue that the ideology of Catholicism therefore contains some truth, or has some virtue that benefits the human condition in some way, no matter how obscure, or hidden, or metaphorical. Your wacko Jim Jones type cult is just BS however.

However I would suggest that when one talks of 'cults' in a modern sense,, and how the word is used today, one is really talking about self-destructive little group ideologies, in which the leader(s) ruthlessly exploit peoples dependancy for their own personal gain.


Yeah like the Bush Adminstration and the relationship to its supporters in this country and around the world.

Yeah like the Bush Adminstration and the relationship to its supporters in this country and around the world.

Please don't talk about Steam behind his back!:p

...... I would suggest that when one talks of 'cults' in a modern sense,, and how the word is used today, one is really talking about self-destructive little group ideologies, in which the leader(s) ruthlessly exploit peoples dependancy for their own personal gain.....

I suppose then you would have to include Catholic priests who've exploited those little boys for their own personal jollies. And didn't that so-called 'religion' appear cultish when the powers that be inside that so-called 'religion' tried to sweep the dirt under the carpet and pretend it wasn't happening? Disgusting.:mad:

Yeah like the Bush Adminstration and the relationship to its supporters in this country and around the world.
You say it. I know of a BShop owner that lost 2 relatives doa, 'cause of the shrubby one.