then who else should be gone? Lefevere joked that there would be only 2 teams left if they really wanted to bar all the former dopers that are involved with teams now (given all the revelations about former Mapei riders he would be gone too). I think 2 teams was likely an optimistic number.

Anyone who was pro from the early 90's on is out because if they weren't on EPO they weren't pro for more than a month. Saiz' other distinction was that he wasn't a former pro and look how that turned out, so who really would be left? Any contenders?

Oleg Tinkov, umm..., yeah.

Anyone who was pro from the early 90's on is out because if they weren't on EPO they weren't pro for more than a month.

Zabel claims he only took EPO for one week. He's been a pro for an awful long time.

Zabel claiming the side effects made him stop is complete BS unless he got some black market stuff that was something else entirely (a la Frigo), which doesn't appear likely given the University connection they had. He has also been contradicted by some other people in the confession cavalcade.

It's rather like a pole vaulter claiming they won with a bamboo pole when everyone else was using modern composites. Theoretically possible but extraordinarily close to zero probability.

Zabel claiming the side effects made him stop is complete BS unless he got some black market stuff that was something else entirely (a la Frigo), which doesn't appear likely given the University connection they had. He has also been contradicted by some other people in the confession cavalcade.

It's rather like a pole vaulter claiming they won with a bamboo pole when everyone else was using modern composites. Theoretically possible but extraordinarily close to zero probability.

Why is it necessarily BS. The side effects of EPO usage include chest pain, shortness of breath, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea or vomiting and seizures. And these are all present within the first weeks, before the positives of the drug begin to show after 6 weeks. Why is it impossible to believe that Zabel took the drug, encountered one of the more serious side effects such as seizures, chest pain, or shortness of breath and as a result stopped taking the drug. I understand the desire to lump these guys all together, but I'd like to think that given the opportunity to get things out in the open he would do just that. Get everything in the open. Milram could have very easily fired him over this, and he knew that.

Although I've said before that I don't think EPO is safe, I have to agree Zabel's story is very fishy. 2 week "trial period?" Give me a break.

Why is it necessarily BS. The side effects of EPO usage include chest pain, shortness of breath, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea or vomiting and seizures. And these are all present within the first weeks, before the positives of the drug begin to show after 6 weeks. Why is it impossible to believe that Zabel took the drug, encountered one of the more serious side effects such as seizures, chest pain, or shortness of breath and as a result stopped taking the drug. I understand the desire to lump these guys all together, but I'd like to think that given the opportunity to get things out in the open he would do just that. Get everything in the open. Milram could have very easily fired him over this, and he knew that.

See the original posters statement: "Anyone who was pro from the early 90's on is out because if they weren't on EPO they weren't pro for more than a month. "

See the original posters statement: "Anyone who was pro from the early 90's on is out because if they weren't on EPO they weren't pro for more than a month. "

So none of the heroes of the 1980's used EPO? Erythropoietin has been available commercially since the mid 80's. In fact in 1990 the AMA was already aware of the use of erythropoietin as a ped.

See:
Laboratory Screening for Erythropoietin Abuse in Sport: an Emerging Challenge
Clin Chem Lab Med 2000; 38(1):13–19 © 2000 by Walter de Gruyter · Berlin · New York
http://www.atypon-link.com/WDG/doi/pdf/10.1515/CCLM.2000.003?cookieSet=1

1987 was when EPO was introduced commercially. Because of the early death toll I think widespread use in the peloton took a little longer until they could get appropriate medical assistance. Riders talking about guys who were formerly dropped on climbs passing climbers seemed to really pick up by 1991.

1987 was when EPO was introduced commercially. Because of the early death toll I think widespread use in the peloton took a little longer until they could get appropriate medical assistance. Riders talking about guys who were formerly dropped on climbs passing climbers seemed to really pick up by 1991.

Mr. Sour Grapes can be heard claiming that very thing all of the time...

The big reason I believe Zabel's comments, especially moreso than other recent "confessions", is that Zabel is, and always has been, a sprinter. It's much easier to sit in on the bunch and give it all you've got for 3-400 meters clean than it is to drop everyone on a climb like they're using lead bicycles clean. The wattage data from a flat stage of the Tour doesn't get all that impressive until about 1k to go. I know plenty of folks who, based on pure data, could hang in with no problem whatsoever, and even though they'd probably get shelled in the sprint, it'd still be enough to finish with the pack. I do believe that years of specialized training would get a rider with sufficient talent such as Zabel to the level he has always ridden at.

Mr. Sour Grapes can be heard claiming that very thing all of the time...Is that Lemond or Fignon you're referring to?