This might be a touchy subject with regard to RBR advertisers, but it's something that continues to baffle me. Why can I buy bike products for so much less money from overseas dealers (mainly Great Britain and Ireland) than the US? It just doesn't make sense. The dollar has been losing value for several years, so theoretically it buys less overseas. Shipping is more expensive because of the distances. Yet it is still less expensive. Some examples:

- I recently bought a Carradice seatbag from England, mainly because all of the US dealers were out of stock. Including a large shipping charge, it was still $20 less than US dealers. Ordered a rack for the same bag, again because US dealers out of stock, and it was $20 less including shipping.
- Earlier this spring, I ordered new DuraAce 9-speed shifters from England for $260, at least $100-150 less than US dealers, and most places don't even stock 9-speed anymore. By adding a cassette to my order (again for less than US prices), my total was high enough to get free shipping. Total savings about $200.
- Last time I bought Sidi shoes, last fall, ordered from Ireland or England, and got them for about $100 less than US. Delivery was faster than typical US internet order.
- Although I've got a great US source for tires (critusa.com), I know of several internet dealers in Ireland/Britain that sell a wide variety of quality tires for regular prices (not sale) that are 30-50% less than most US internet dealers.
- Bike jerseys are typically 30-50% less from Britain/Ireland.

In addition, to the lower prices, there are no sales taxes, Britain's value-added tax (VAT) is deducted for foreign customers, and several of the British/Irish dealers have free or reduced price for shipping on larger orders. What gives?

I figured this thread would get moved...

A lot of the gear is made in Europe.

Mavic, Sidi, Assos, Castelli, Deda, etc., etc.

I

A lot of the gear is made in Europe. Mavic, Sidi, Assos, Castelli, Deda, etc., etc.I

I concede that might be an issue in some cases, but why can I buy Shimano gear for less money from Britain than the US? I don't think Britain is any closer to Japan than the US.

Also, even if I am buying a product -- say a Carradice bag -- that is made in England, why should it be less expensive including the shipping costs. Presumably the US dealers are buying in bulk at wholesale prices, and their shipping costs are spread over wide of gear that they import. I can order one Carradice bag, pay high shipping costs, and it's still $20 cheaper than in the US. That's not even including sales taxes that apply in many cases, and its comparing costs to online dealers that often charge less than local bike shops.

Here is a theory for you:

Cycling is more popular in Europe, thus they sell a greater volume of goods. By selling a greater volume of items, they can spread their overhead over more items, thus reducing costs. It is no different than how large volume American distributers such as Nashbar and Performance can often beat the prices of your LBS. Your LBS has a limited niche market from which to pay all the bills and hopefully turn a profit.

The tax structure may play into it also. A business here pays income and payroll taxes which must be covered as part of overhead. I am not sure if the VAT in Europe covers part of those costs.

There may be an element of what the market will bear: in Europe cycling is more of a working class sport while here it is the domain of the dermatologists and software engineers. Lots of people in Europe also realize you don't always need the latest CF frame or gizmos to race/have a good ride.

The prices at places like PBK still amaze me after living in the UK, since most things there are so much more expensive than in the US. Somebody in the US cycling business must be taking a good cut...

I've ordered from Britain and France on several occasions and it always seems like a great deal. How a place like PBK can sell under the price of major US mail order places AND offer free shipping is beyond me. I got me last PBK order in 6 days. That is probably better than if I had ordered from CC, Performance, etc. Perhaps the duty/taxes are different to import for a US distributor. Maybe there are more middleman in the US. I am just happy they exist

This might be a touchy subject with regard to RBR advertisers, but it's something that continues to baffle me. Why can I buy bike products for so much less money from overseas dealers (mainly Great Britain and Ireland) than the US? It just doesn't make sense. The dollar has been losing value for several years, so theoretically it buys less overseas. Shipping is more expensive because of the distances. Yet it is still less expensive. Some examples:

- I recently bought a Carradice seatbag from England, mainly because all of the US dealers were out of stock. Including a large shipping charge, it was still $20 less than US dealers. Ordered a rack for the same bag, again because US dealers out of stock, and it was $20 less including shipping.
- Earlier this spring, I ordered new DuraAce 9-speed shifters from England for $260, at least $100-150 less than US dealers, and most places don't even stock 9-speed anymore. By adding a cassette to my order (again for less than US prices), my total was high enough to get free shipping. Total savings about $200.
- Last time I bought Sidi shoes, last fall, ordered from Ireland or England, and got them for about $100 less than US. Delivery was faster than typical US internet order.
- Although I've got a great US source for tires (critusa.com), I know of several internet dealers in Ireland/Britain that sell a wide variety of quality tires for regular prices (not sale) that are 30-50% less than most US internet dealers.
- Bike jerseys are typically 30-50% less from Britain/Ireland.

In addition, to the lower prices, there are no sales taxes, Britain's value-added tax (VAT) is deducted for foreign customers, and several of the British/Irish dealers have free or reduced price for shipping on larger orders. What gives?

I'd say more grey market stuff too. Shimano USA for instance can't do a damn thing about what a Euro company can do. In the states they started the Shimano Authorized program so only companies like Colorado Cyclist, Excel, Competitive Cyclist, etc were partners. They controlled prices to a degree in the states. I had an interseting discussion over this matter with the new Shimano National Sales Manager over this. She was completely unaware that Shimano DA 10 groups were being sold by etailers overseas for less, or the same price as what they cost from QBP, the primary distributor in the U.S.

In essence the prices these guys would offer were the same as what a shop would pay in some cases. When I showed her the UK website she admitted that Shimano USA was powerless. For me it was eye opening that the National Sales Manager was so far removed from the market that she didn't even know that places like this are thriving on U.S. based business. One of the reasons I love RBR is that I as an industry guy I get to see and interact with the whole gamut of consumers.

What is most baffling to me is that the dollar has been losing value to foreign currencies for several years now. If you invest in foreign mutual funds, you know about this -- foreign funds generally have trounced US stock funds, and it's largely due to the currency effect. So, if the dollar hadn't lost so much value, the savings presumably would be even greater. In theory, the US dealers should have a pricing advantage right now and be able to sell for LESS than the overseas dealers, but that isn't happening.

Funny old world, ain't it?

Try converting the UK pounds prices straight into dollars at the exchange rate. UK shops quote prices including Value Added Tax at 17.5% :cryin: last I heard of the rate

Which has gone up considerably in the years since I moved from over there. So the next time some pol suggests a flat rate tax the US over, it's something like VAT he's talking about...

So - when you go to US prices at PBK etc, you aren't paying a straight exchange rate USD version of the UKP prices.

I can understand how Euro made stuff is much less than the US, maybe can understand how PacRim stuff is too - but stuff like SRAM that is, technically (yeah, sure...) US made and, one imagines, comes via SRAM distribution. Though terrible people have suggested that business ethics on the PacRim might be a tad less than exemplary - the cads :rolleyes:

Very strange.

Who really cares? These are bike shops AFAIK, not some garage based ThiefBay operation that might not be there next week, and we all cheerfully MO from all over the place rather than go to LBS, help them order items, wait for them to come in, pay state taxes, etc - so why worry about them being next door in Ireland, or next door but one in England?

At around $35.00 for a Conti 4000, no shipping, vs $50-odd plus MD taxes from my LBS (which is a Performance store, BTW!), I find I can tell my conscience to take a hike ;) As others mention, shipping times are pretty close to a "far side of the US" mail order (I live on the right hand edge). My Sidi CF shoes with fancy-dancy tensioners vice Velcro cost me less from PBK than Genius 5s from Performance too. Last year, I got a Shimano compact from PBK before they were on sale in the US at all, and paid significantly below the eventual US price.

Okay, could be accused of a tiny tad of bias here, being a (legal) immigrant who's now "EnglishhyphenAmerican". :cool:

Regards

Dereck

so what site can you get 9-speed DA shifters for $260? :)

so what site can you get 9-speed DA shifters for $260? :)

www.chainreactioncycles.com

If your order totals about $285 or more, they also have free shipping. So I added an Ultegra cassette to raise my total a few bucks.

Nashbar actually had DA 9-speed shifters on sale last fall for $200! I should have bought two sets at the time. Now hardly any US dealers even stock the Shimano 9-speed gear.

Prices from companies (Shimano, Campag) are determined by the amount of their gear that gets sold in your particular area (Europe, US/Canada, Oceania). e.g more campag gear gets sold in Europe than in Australia, so the European distributors are allowed to buy at a lower price.

is this "what the market will bear"? some goods are more expensive in other countries. US pharmaceutcal industry charges "more" to US customers than Canada, other countries.

[QUOTE=steel515]is this "what the market will bear"? some goods are more expensive in other countries.[QUOTE]

It's almost all the tax structure. Others have mentioned it, but their target price point must include the 17% (or whatever) VAT. Take this out, and don't pay the state sales tax you were probably supposed to pay, or the import duty that -- at least a company would've had to pay to import a bunch of an Italian-made item, et voila. Cheap stuff.

With the GBP now moving north of $2 from $1.40 a few years ago the deals have mostly dried up. But tires continue to be a relative bargain from the UK. Brits just don't seem to think tires are worth paying much for.

Taxes are not a good explanation because Denmark and some other EU prices have always been far higher than the difference in VAT rates would indicate. It's really what the market will bear and just like pharmaceutical companies charging more in the US, the bike companies seem to do the same. Some companies like Campy and Shimano just pay more attention to equalizing global prices and eliminating grey market opportunities than others (though I prefer to call it arbitrage).

There is also growth strategies to consider. Ritchey used to be dirt cheap from Italy but now that they have gained so much market share in the EU the pricing has been adjusted and now the only deals for Ritchey seem to be on ebay.

If there are ever any African internet shops that could be trusted there could be some great deals there someday. Currencies that drop like rocks and little ability to afford first world prices would make a great source.